The Frying Pan

12:13 AM

@Aaronut when Costco started carrying USDA Prime strip, ribeye, and now sirloin, that was an amazing day. Probably almost as world-changing as Apollo 11, though I wasn't alive for that.

Aaronut

@derobert I'm no longer a member of Costco Canada, but if they have that here too, it might actually convince me to renew my membership.

Funny, I let it expire because I hardly ever used it... but with the amount of meat and fruit I've been eating lately, I'd have saved a ton.

derobert

@Aaronut LOL, yeah

Aaronut

I make do with cheap meat for that reason; plus it's kind of fun to come up with ways to use, for example, chicken livers.

derobert

Well, also, when cooked right some of those cheap tough meats are very good... you just have to be willing to wait hours for them to slow cook

Aaronut

When you have a really nice Prime or even Choice cut, you're not going to do much with it, which is convenient, but eventually boring.

@derobert I've never had any success with top rounds, but everything else comes out fine after some good slow cooking.

I actually got a grinder recently (well, Kitchen-Aid attachment), so I'm going to see what cheap meats would make good burgers/patties.

derobert

12:17 AM

I think top rounds are hopeless

@Aaronut chuck works well, at least if you freeze it a little bit to get it through the FGA without clogging

Aaronut

Well yeah, but chuck is what all the commercial burgers are already made of.

I'm thinking of trying the "blue label", I've already got some oxtail and sirloin kicking around.

...not that oxtail is exactly cheap, but a little goes a long way.

derobert

hmmm, that could be an interesting burger

I normally wait until its warm outside to do burgers, but I suppose Canadians are probably immune to cold

Aaronut

Actually it's funny you mention that, one of my coworkers apparently went to a BBQ a week or two ago... an outdoor BBQ... and it's the middle of winter.

But most of us don't do that. I don't. BBQ events are summer events. Any burgers I make in the winter would be stovetop.

Which, by the way, is completely fine with a cast iron skillet. Never had much luck with s/s.

derobert

Yeah, only done burgers on a grill or cast iron

Jay

hi guys im drunk

you can ask me anything and ill tell you everything

derobert

12:32 AM

Well, that was fun... Got a pouring chute/splash shield for my stand mixer yesterday. Didn't have it on correctly. Got caught on dough hook, pulled into mixer bowl, threw flour everywhere

... amazingly, plastic splash shield survived without any visible damage

Now I get to make bread of unknown hydration do to flour loss :-P

Aaronut

Haha, sounds like a question in the making.

derobert

@Aaronut we'll see. I plan on fairly high hydration (around 80%)... and maybe some in the dutch oven, some under a stainless bowl (thanks, @rfusca) and not sure about the third part

Shog9

12:57 AM

@Aaronut Chuck + bacon...

course grind

little bitta salt

big huge burgers

tasty

@Jay In that case: give me the launch codes

Jay

@Shog9 what launch codes

and thats not a question buddy

last time i checked

Shog9

What launch codes do you have then?

Jay

@Shog9 none

Shog9

So much for telling me everything :|

Jay

@Shog9 i tell you what i know

and i no launch code

Shog9

1:02 AM

@Jay So what do you know?

Jay

know no*

everything and nothing

you questions are way too broad for a drunk guy to answer

Shog9

Well, I've already heard nothing, so let's go with everything

@Jay In that case: gin or whiskey?

Jay

@Shog9 GIN!!!!

Shog9

Good man

Gin it will be!

Jay

aafter drinking 15 shots of jack daniels on halloween and puking everywhere, the smell of any thing or whisky/bourbon makes me want to puke

Shog9

1:07 AM

yeah, I tend to avoid shots anymore for this reason: great way to ruin stuff you like.

derobert

Wow, from the feel of it after taking it out of the mixer, I'm above 80% hydration. Should be interesting.

Jay

1:22 AM

@derobert you should be intersting

your face is interesting

your mom is interesing

omg im so drunk right now lol

derobert

@Jay since when do mushrooms have faces?

Jay

@derobert since they started to talk

derobert

@Jay ah, well, but do you know I talk? For all you know, I only type

Jay

well you have a face as soon as you tell to type

derobert

@Jay watch out, if you stay in here too long, much of the alcohol will cook off. Then you'll be sober again...

and who wants that?

Jay

1:25 AM

@derobert the alcohol wont completely cook off as i learned yeterday

derobert

not completely, but with 75% less alcohol, how drunk would you be?

Jay

@derobert im asian and havent eaten anything at all yet today

derobert

Oh, in that case, did you get drunk by sniffing the sourdough starter? :-P

Jay

1:46 AM

@derobert ahhhhhhhh i always do so well in LoL when i am drunk

i need to get drunk more often

Jay

2:06 AM

wth

why did a guy with only 40% match and 35% enemy message me

Aaronut

2:23 AM

@Shog9 I don't really find that to be a problem as long as you stop at around the 12th shot.

@Jay I know that dating is a hot topic in here, but there are some things we just don't want to know about.

Jay

2:52 AM

@Aaronut 12 is probably still too much

but then again im asian so that might be a factor

Shog9

3:14 AM

@Aaronut Stopping is always the problem for me.

rfusca

3:27 AM

@derobert above 80% interesting

@derobert - I did an 80% and it was a gloppy mess to begin with

derobert

4:42 AM

@rfusca yes, well, it'll soon be baking time... the oven is heating...

rfusca

@derobert picture, picture, picture!

derobert

rfusca

nice

k, another picture when it comes out

;)

baking as a boule?

derobert

@rfusca it is very flat, completely can't hold its shape. Need to proof that in a 0-g environment

rfusca

@derobert lol

i really like proofing in my banneton, try one out sometime

derobert

4:47 AM

hah, I could throw one in a bowl, that'd work...

or in my baguette pan

rfusca

i can't find a non-non-stick baguette pan

derobert

@rfusca I found one on Amazon

rfusca

@derobert really?

derobert

@rfusca yep... in fact, if you just search there for baguette pan, the first few are plain metal

rfusca

@derobert odd, i tried not long ago...

derobert

4:50 AM

amazon.com/Fox-Run-Inch-French-Bread/dp/B001ET5ZBA/…

that's the one I have, I think

rfusca

do you like it?

derobert

@rfusca its worked fine the few times I've used it. Puts up with a 500°F without complaints

Only complaint is it doesn't fit in my sink—but that's a complaint about my sink, really

rfusca

@derobert lol

this one looks interesting - its non-stick but not teflon amazon.com/Mrs-Andersons-Baking-Double-Baguette/dp/B005LYQW6G/…

derobert

@rfusca so, I have it divided into three pieces, all of unequal size, of course... One is going in the dutch oven. One, I'm going to try under a stainless bowl sitting on the stone. Wonder what I should do with the third

rfusca

uncovered as a control

or a pan with hot water

Jay

4:56 AM

lol so im sober now

derobert

Ok. Scoring those was interesting. I need a sharper blade. Maybe a laser cutter could do it.

rfusca

lol

@derobert i've read that this works well for scoring - i ordered one

amazon.com/Pure-Komachi-Tomato-Cheese-Knife/dp/B0029XHR02

i had a lot of trouble scoring my 80% loaves the other day

derobert

Yeah, and these seem to be >80% ...

its funny, they're rising, I think, but only in width ...

rfusca

@derobert what makes you think so?

derobert

@rfusca I've worked with 80% before, these seem wetter

rfusca

5:04 AM

ic

derobert

@rfusca these are ones where I was going for 80% but wound up flinging a bunch of flour out of the mixer... I reduced the water a little, but apparently not enough

rfusca

ic

derobert

I guess you weren't around earlier. I got the pouring shield recently, was trying to use it, and apparently didn't have it on properly when I turned the mixer on. The dough hook caught it, and pulled it into the bowl, flinging a bunch of flour out. Amazingly, this didn't damage the pouring shield

rfusca

@derobert ug, the pouring shield...useless POS

@derobert wow

derobert

So, maybe next up (after getting these dough-slugs off my counter and then vacuuming up all the flour...) is to try again, this time with the right hydration. Still have 15lbs of flour around :-P

rfusca

5:12 AM

lol

what kind of flour?

derobert

@rfusca KA Bread Flour

rfusca

@derobert wow, k

I see very little on sites recommending bread flour for such - most often KA AP recommended

I have some KA bread flour, but I haven't figured out what to use it for - maybe bagels or such

derobert

I have their even higher gluten flour to make bagels with sometime

rfusca

wow

thats crazy high

derobert

yep, but should make delightfully chewy bagels

rfusca

5:19 AM

indeed

i made bagels once and they just weren't enough better than store bought

@Elendil how'd your bagels turn out

derobert

@rfusca OK, so I'm going to leave this dutch oven covered for, I guess 10min, then take off the cover and bake until its 200°F inside. /me keeps fingers crossed it comes out as good bread...

That really pulled open upon scoring.

rfusca

i'm sure it will be fine in the DO

derobert

just took the lid off, definitely got oven spring (no surprise) ... will check temp. in 10 more minutes. No photos yet. Its publicist objected.

rfusca

@derobert boo, dang publicist

derobert

5:35 AM

Interesting fact, on the weekends, we actually talk about cooking here. I wonder if its due to @rumtscho being missing. Does the presence of a mod keep us off-topic?

rfusca

@derobert lol

who knows, but it does seem that way

derobert

Almost done... top was only 190°F, bottom was 200°F. Guess there's plenty of heat in a dutch oven sitting on a baking stone :-P

rfusca

@derobert nice

picture, picture, picture! lol

derobert

Will have one in a minute or two

Hope the bottom doesn't burn...

rfusca

not bad, crumb cut when it cools though :P

derobert

5:45 AM

next one is in the oven, with the bowl on top

rfusca

nice

on a stone?

derobert

yep, on a stone

rfusca

k

derobert

Slid the parchment onto a peel, put the bowl on top of it, and slid the whole thing off the peel and onto the stone

rfusca

your loaves look much lighter than mine as of late

derobert

5:49 AM

the bottom of that one is pretty dark—too dark, I dare say

also, this is white flour, so...

rfusca

ya, so were mine i'm comparing to

what oven temp?

derobert

450°F according to the dial, but I think mine runs a little hot (got a good oven thermometer on order...)

if it weren't for the plan to do another loaf immediately after, I would have dropped it down to 375 or even 350

rfusca

ic

derobert

(after the first 10 or 15 minutes)

rfusca

right

so figure out the third loaf yet?

derobert

5:52 AM

nope, maybe I'll do something crazy with it. Like try a cooled-off dutch oven :-P

rfusca

lol

derobert

Oooh, I know, I should try and boil it. That'd be crazy enough, but might work.

rfusca

poach it

steam it!

derobert

microwave it?

rfusca

ooooo good one

derobert

5:57 AM

I'm sort of curious now...

rfusca

@derobert lol

derobert

thefreshloaf.com/node/4469/microwave-bread

rfusca

i'd be interested in see how much rise comes from steaming it

derobert

I think I got more spring from the dutch oven than the bowl, but its hard to say since the pieces were so uneven to start with.

possible I should have been warmer for just the stone—I doubt it transfers heat as rapidly as the iron

rfusca

pics of both?

derobert

6:09 AM

rfusca

has better color

crust looks better

if there's a rise diff between the two, it doesn't look like much

derobert

there, picture of both of them

rfusca

ya, so there's some

derobert

So, I think for the final one, I'm going to heat the stone to 500°F on the dial, probably actually a little hotter, plop it down with the bowl on top, then turn the oven down

rfusca

@derobert nice

derobert

6:13 AM

first one is almost cool enough to cut into

rfusca

@derobert awesome

i'll be baking tomorrow

probably 80% batards

derobert

heh, if my oven wasn't perfectly level, these boules would turn into batards :-P

rfusca

lol

derobert

@rfusca that's the first one

rfusca

6:39 AM

@derobert not terrible for a boule

a little denser/regular than I'd expect for such high hydration

boule's just don't end up with as open of a crumb as a baguette

derobert

yeah, not quite sure why it turned out that dense, tastes fine though

its possible I didn't leave it long enough after shaping, hard to tell when it spreads out like that...

maybe it didn't double

it had a good hour, though. Well, I guess if the other two have less-dense crumb, that was it, as they got longer

rfusca

boules just tend do do that

a batard or baguette will open more

derobert

sure, but I've had boules open more than that

rfusca

@derobert true

is the last one in

derobert

just took the last one out... that clearly didn't work. Last one is best described as "evenly cooked*"

* = burnt

odd, maybe the oven didn't cool down enough...

well, guess I'll cut into it soon and see if it at least got better crumb :-P

rfusca

6:48 AM

thats a shame

derobert

who knows, maybe I set the timer wrong, it's late ...

rfusca

@derobert excuses :P

timer ha!

i use butterflies

derobert

@rfusca do you put them in the oven along with the bread, and listen for their screams?

rfusca

@derobert I open one, let it's wings flap once, it causes a disturbance in the air, which creates a storm over san francisco, and the storm clouds spell out my phone number, and all this is perfectly timed such that peter reinhart calls me to tell me my bread is done

(just in case you didn't know about xkcd.com/378)

derobert

@rfusca well, that's going to be a problem, because I kidnapped Mr. Reinhart to look over my new sourdough starter

rfusca

6:55 AM

@derobert well thats ok Chad Robertson is his backup

derobert

@rfusca ah, well, then I guess your timing methods will work. Unless I uninstall your copy of emacs.

rfusca

@derobert noooooooooooooo!

derobert

Or worse, you try to start emacs, and find you don't have enough RAM

rfusca

what recipe did you use?

derobert

ummm... was going for 80% water, 1.5% salt, 1% yeast, 1% onion powder

2% sugar

but, would up with 2% salt. And of course, water % unknown

rfusca

6:59 AM

@derobert interesting

derobert

@rfusca "interesting" ?

rfusca

onion powder, sugar but no oil

derobert

yep

chewier that way

not much sugar, much of that was for proofing the active-dry yeast

rfusca

gotcha

mixed up a batch of no-knead for the week

derobert

ah, I haven't really played with no-knead much

rfusca

7:14 AM

@derobert its my go to weekday bread, just cuz I can keep a big batch in the fridge and pull it out as needed

stretch and fold a time or two and then proof.

very, very little work involved

derobert

yeah, sounds nice

rfusca

@derobert yup, and the long cold ferment works well.

plus for a mealtime, it means fresh bread is just a moment away

derobert

yeah, I've done Reinhart's 3-day bread with the long cold ferment, and its good

but that wasn't no-knead

rfusca

anything high'ish hydration and low yeast ratio can be no-knead

just leave it in the fridge

i gotta make it over to lowes tomorrow, get my steam injection stuff

derobert

ooh, you're building your own steam injection oven?

awesome

rfusca

7:21 AM

i'm gonna inject steam through the oven exhaust outlet

based on a modified version of this

my exhaust is easy to get to

and i'm gonna put a valve on the output. So I can build steam and then blast it in the oven when I put the loaf in

derobert

My oven is gas, and is so well ventilated I'd practically need to set off a BLEVE to get it steamed :-(

rfusca

that stinks

derobert

Hah, it sounds like you are going to set off a BLEVE in yours :-P

just make sure to stay the hell away from the output end of that system...

rfusca

ya, i mean, the pressure cooker safety valves will still be in place - so it can't be anymore dangerous than the quick pressure release on my cooker

derobert

yeah, except you've drilled a new hole, so hopefully you haven't weakened it

and I mean to stay away from the output side of that hose—that's going to have a lot of superheated steam coming out

rfusca

7:27 AM

oh, definitely

@derobert nah ;)

if I suddenly disappear, I was wrong

derobert

LOL

I want a 400PSI boiler to vent into my oven. That'd surely steam it nicely.

... and, as a side effect, clean the oven

:-P

rfusca

and your whole kitchen

derobert

oooh! quick kitchen cleaning! I like it

rfusca

lol

i just think it will be more versatile than bowls and dutch ovens

derobert

that, it'll probably be

rfusca

7:33 AM

i've already got an extra pressure cooker, so the other stuff should be cheap

derobert

#@!!#!#* ... a JPEG

rfusca

?

derobert

look at how nice and open that one is

rfusca

better crumb for sure

derobert

it's the burnt one, of course

rfusca

7:34 AM

lol

it doesn't look burnt

derobert

no, the cell phone camera isn't showing it well

rfusca

ic

derobert

Motorola can't write camera software worth shit. Their camera software is, I believe, probably the worst I've ever seen. Which sucks, for a cell phone, it has quite reasonable optics. But the software...

rfusca

lol

well I think your DO bread wasn't baked hot enough probably

derobert

like, I'm pretty sure the software's favorite focus algorithm is what I call "contrast minimization"

I think I probably just should have left it longer for the 2nd rise, that one got an extra hour

rfusca

7:38 AM

@derobert perhaps

maybe a bit of both

derobert

probably it was slower than I expected due to the 2% salt content

... which was more than I wanted, this bread is somewhat salty

rfusca

@derobert 2% isn't that high

i see

derobert

well, 1.5% would be more normal, I think, for a somewhat salty loaf

rfusca

must be more salt sensitive than I

derobert

maybe I'm remembering wrong, lemme go look it up...

no, checking bread baker's apprentice, 2% is reasonable

Oooh, I know a bread question I could actually ask on the main site—what are the upper, lower bounds of reasonable baker's ratios

rfusca

7:46 AM

hmm, i guess

derobert

the front page is disturbingly bread-free, it needs some help. Ever since you finished your question run.

rfusca

I'm not finished, just saving for tomorrow

there's not really an upper limit unless you start being concerned about what is defined as 'bread'

derobert

@rfusca well, there is an upper limit as long as you want something edible, e.g., if you tried 15% salt, I doubt anyone would want to eat it. Including, quite possibly, yeast.

rfusca

@derobert oh, i was just thinking in terms of hydration

there's already the salt upper limit Q

10

Q: How much salt can I safely add to bread dough?

I recently made ciabatta, which turned out very well, with a good crust and nice open crumb. However, I felt it could use more salt to give extra flavour. I'm aware that salt and yeast do not make good bedfellows (or should that be breadfellows?), so how much salt can I safely add to the recipe w...

derobert

yep, saw that, that's the problem when I come up with a question to ask, someone has already beat me to it :-(

hydration-wise, I know that somewhere around 80% hand kneading becomes difficult if not impossible, a little further up and it won't hold any shape other than pancake, and I've baked as high as 120% in a mold, though the flavor didn't quite work

oil/butter-wise, you can get nearly 100%

... as BBA does for its brioche

rfusca

7:55 AM

@derobert ya

well looking in BBA, I was wrong about that salt Q - I revised. BBA has a few recipes as high as 4.2 %

derobert

yeast, I've found anything over say 2 or 3% (at least with active dry) is a bad idea

rfusca

what happens?

derobert

taste goes when you shove to much active dry yeast in

rfusca

@derobert oh sure

derobert

not just as in "not enough time for proper flavor development" but as in "wow, this put a bad off-flavor in it"

lower bound on yeast is pretty low, of course, below 0.1% if it exists

rfusca

8:00 AM

nod ya

derobert

No idea about sugar's upper bound, though.

rfusca

i like low

derobert

Low generally tastes better, just takes longer

except for enriched breads, where you can't really tell the difference, then put the 1.5% in, no reason to wait for that.

rfusca

i gotta get some beer for bread making

derobert

around here, we only have bears

or, at least, that's what real men drink

rfusca

8:04 AM

lol

well, its a 'dry' county here. I have to drive a bit to get any

derobert

ah, that sucks

rfusca

shrug it sucks for that, but its nice not to have bars

derobert

what's wrong with bars? We have bars around here, never had any qualms with them

of course, I'm out in the suburbs, so not many within walking distance.

rfusca

shrug seeing any public drunks is just unheard of

derobert

same here, well, unless you go stand in front of a bar

rfusca

8:11 AM

i've just been in places where that's not the case

derobert

ah, yeah, that'd be annoying if they were everwhere

rfusca

ya

derobert

where was this, Nevada, where I hear there is a right to be drunk in public?

rfusca

@derobert lol, what?

derobert

Public intoxication

Public intoxication, also known as "drunk and disorderly", is a summary offense in many countries rated to public cases or displays of drunkenness. Public intoxication laws vary widely from country to country. Australia While it is technically illegal in most states and territories of Australia to be drunk and disorderly, most Australian police take a humane approach with regards to public intoxication. This includes transporting the IP ("Intoxicated Person") to his or her residence or temporary detention at a police station or other welfare establishment until the intoxicated person is...

mentions it

rfusca

8:14 AM

interesting

derobert

leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-458.html#NRS458Sec260 ... another wiki article has an actual citation

rfusca

cool

derobert

So, I'm tempted to make some more bread, question is, what would I do with it...

rfusca

@derobert make a friend or two happy

derobert

well, I thought two were going to come over tomorrow, well, today, but they've vanished

rfusca

8:28 AM

send some to me

derobert

sounded like you already had plenty

rfusca

@derobert too true

derobert

Hmmm, wonder what dried fruit I have around, haven't made a fruity bread in a while

Cerberus

10:50 AM

> In Indiana, public intoxication is a class B misdemeanor, punishable with up to 180 days in jail

> Following the election of Boris Johnson as mayor of London, drinking on London public transportation was made illegal. This was supported by those who felt it would decrease antisocial behaviour, but opposed by those who argued that alcohol relieved the discomfort of a commute.

ElendilTheTall

12:03 PM

@rfusca bagels went well. chewy, good flavour.

Cerberus

Hey, I have a bread question.

Does bread baked in a dutch-oven really turn out much better than in a bread-maker?

Aaronut

1:17 PM

@Cerberus Why don't you ask that on the site, instead of in chat? You might even get a free book out of it.

Gigili

1:31 PM

Why not a dutch-oven instead of a book?

Gigili

1:41 PM

I have some apples, kiwis and bananas. And I want to make a sorbet. What do you think?

Cerberus

1:55 PM

@Aaronut Oh, a free book?

I figured the question was a big vague and subjective.

Aaronut

2:40 PM

@Cerberus Well, as written, yeah, but I assumed you'd be more specific (i.e. what kinds of bread, how you're making it, what you mean by "better", etc.)

Cerberus

3:11 PM

@Aaronut But then I'd have to not be lazy!

baking chocolate cookies now

@Gigili How did your sorbet turn out?

rumtscho

@Cerberus for a change, I uploaded a pic of tasty stuff on the mainpage instead of in chat.

(I read that you complained of such pics here in the transcipt)

0

A: Does tiramisu firm up in the fridge?

The mixture does indeed set in the fridge. It remains airier than the average tiramisu I've eaten (but I don't know what commercial tiramisu contains, probably not a foam based on raw yolks), but it is firm enough to hold its shape when served. If a piece is forgotten outside overnight, it become...

Cerberus

@rumtscho Ohh nice!

Without reading the question I must up-vote that.

rumtscho

You upvote based on pics?

I shall start including one with every q or a I write :)

Aaronut

That tiramisu looks like it's sad.

rumtscho

@Aaronut why sad?

I know it is slightly lopsided, but my gratin pan has slightly angled walls.

Aaronut

3:22 PM

I don't know, I guess it's the droopiness.

It sort of looks like it's hunched over, about to start crying.

rumtscho

And taking it out of the pan is a sloppy thing, I didn't have a better side to photograph (one without a crack)

@Aaronut If I hadn't already eaten a piece a few minutes ago, together with a ham-and-mushroom pastry, I would have ended its misery. Now it will have to wait for dinner.

Aaronut

Don't get me wrong, I'd still eat it, I'm just saying it looks depressed.

rumtscho

It could be the colors, they look right on my good monitor, but too cold on the uncalibrated one.

Should have made it warmer.

derobert

Looks fine here (well, except for the lopsided-ness)... I'd eat it. If it weren't an ocean away.

rumtscho