@prosfilaes OECs have a bastard mash-up of the two, usually consisting of BB+CD while trying to insist (poorly) that God actually had something to do with it. (Ooh, panspermia, a.k.a. passing the buck. Terrible, terrible hypothesis, that.)

@prosfilaes I suggest you take that up with Holocaust survivors, or Darwin himself, who asserted that "more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world."

It's true some "Christians" have twisted Scripture to support racism, but I challenge you to show where Scripture actually teaches that. Darwin was pretty clear.

@prosfilaes Way to miss the point. Sure, the mainstream still doesn't accept the actual dates, but LM is disproof of uniformitarianism. It's a case where the mainstream has (very grudgingly) accepted that the regional geology is the result of catastrophism, not millions of years of gradualism.

@Matthew Take what up with Darwin? I never denied that Darwin was a 19th century Englishman. It really feels dishonest to most people outside your clique the way the acts of Christians don't reflect on Christianity, and are even someone else's fault. The Holocaust has nothing to do Martin Luther and the Oberammergau Passion Play; it's all Darwin's fault.

@prosfilaes You're putting up a strawman uniformitarianism and declaring a victory when you knock it down. Creationists didn't prove that Lake Missoula existed. Mainstream scientists studied the geology of the area and came to the conclusion that Lake Missoula existed. The fact that they can recognize one case of more catastrophic geological change is evidence that they are not just denying the facts, and are capable of telling the difference between gradual and catastrophic change.

@prosfilaes "Races is a concept driven in the West by Christians". Darwin absolutely promoted racism. And, yes, his ideas significantly influenced Hitler.

@matthew Which is sort of the point. Have you ever worked with all the tree rings of Europe and tried to find a consistent chronology? No, but who ever has must have done it wrong, and not only wrong, but wrong enough to fit your dates. There have been problems with some cases of radiometric dating? Then it's all wrong. Do you offer an alternative? No, but...

@Matthew I'd debate Darwin promoted racism, but so what? He's not a Messiah; he's a human being. He published in 1859, by which time racism was well established in the West, and the Trans-Atlantic slave trade had started and ended.

@prosfilaes If I have one piece of evidence that suggests X, several pieces of evidence that suggest not-X, and many pieces of evidence that suggest Y (X and Y being contradictory), which is more likely?

@Matthew And yes, Hitler was born, raised and lived all his life in a Christian environment, ran a nation that was 96% Christian, and those Christians actually did the work. But it's not your fault.

@prosfilaes ...so eugenics is a product of "Western Christianity"? What's your evidence?

@Matthew Sure, if you presume you're right, then you're right.

@Matthew Again, everything in the West that's good is Christianity's doing, and everything that's bad is not. Darwin spoke against eugenics, and you're changing the topic. Luther spoke against the Jews, but you refuse to even respond to that.

And even the most benevolent idea can be warped and applied to justify horrible acts.

@prosfilaes Asserting that "the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races" is "against eugenics"? Or do you just hold people you agree with to a different standard?

@Matthew theguardian.com/science/2021/feb/13/…

@Matthew In any case, this is irrelevant. The questions are things like how old is the Earth, and that does not change depending on what the human response to that question is, or how the humans who set us on the paths to the answers behaved.

Start from the basics: we don't know how old the Earth is. Why are you claiming it's 6000 years old?