The DMZ

12:05 AM

Being colorblind can be a real security hazard if you have difficulty seeing the difference between black and red.

@AviD I'm gonna concede that there is a tinge that goes beyond visual illusion, but it less than subtle. Perhaps some difference in monitor brightness or contrast? But that doesn't affect it either when I play with mine.

AviD

@thisjosh especially if you play checkers for a living.

nealmcb

Time to get out the gimp and compare color values

AviD

@nealmcb lol, or we can just wait for a second opinion if i'm crazy.

well, not if....

nealmcb

@thisjosh Do you see it?

this.josh

12:07 AM

D'oh!

Rory Alsop

morning all - back from band practice:-)

@thisjosh had a friend like that - he did wiring in nuclear submarines.

Really

@AviD what opinion do you guys need? I see there are a million updates since I went off for dinner

AviD

@RoryAlsop am I crazy?

or blind?

:D

this.josh

The one that says Beta badge? No I can't see though it, but then again I am color blind.

AviD

0

Q: Low opacity Inbox

The Inbox is semi-transparent: Makes it visually gorgeous, however I find the color bands behind it seem to make arbitrary separations, which is a bit confusing. I don't have a screenshot right now, but new messages in the inbox, colored in bright orange with interspersed dark blue, lighte...

Rory Alsop

hmmm- I don't see transparency. Even on the image you have in that question.

is your graphics card or display faulty? smearing colours horizontally?

AviD

12:11 AM

@RoryAlsop errgg

@RoryAlsop no, not smearing - its the other way 'round. sharp as honey.

Rory Alsop

in addition, I don't actually have colour bands. Do you mean the really fine blue/red tron lines?

AviD

@RoryAlsop wait, what?

this.josh

Apparently Red-Green color blindness is non existant in females

AviD

I'm talking about the header background.

from top to bottom, black, dark blue (behind the trines), medium blue-gray|grey (where the questions|tags|etc links are), light blue (blog announcement), white.

this.josh

we are talking about i.stack.imgur.com/TlZbE.png right?

AviD

12:15 AM

@thisjosh yes, dang it! I'm really the only one?

Rory Alsop

@AviD I see those stripes, sure, but they don't come through the white of the inbox bit on my computer, or in the image you have posted

AviD

first 2 msgs are on top of the dark blue and medium bluegray. 3rd on the lightblue blogpost.

@RoryAlsop maaaaan. in the image @nealmcb and @this posted, I see it.

is it a monitor/laptop issue?

nealmcb

Gimp tells me there are a few slightly different colors there

Rory Alsop

even zoomed right in I can't see a difference

AviD

bloody heck.

nealmcb

12:18 AM

E.g. F8F8F9 vs FFFFFF

AviD

@RoryAlsop are you just japing me? you ol' hoon.

Rory Alsop

@nealmcb oooo - so there is a difference

no - I honestly can't see it, but I believe @neal

so maybe my monitor setup just doesn't show the difference

AviD

@RoryAlsop I refuse to believe my eyeshite, or my 2yr old laptop, are so sharp that I would be the only one to notice this with my naked eye.

nealmcb

It gets confused with visual illusions. Zoom in and it is easier to believe.

@AviD You said something about a headache after the boat ride? It's ok - you'll get better.

Or there will be an opening for another mod....

AviD

@nealmcb lol

actually the headache is more from the extended family. the boat just left me with wobbly sense of balance.

nealmcb

12:22 AM

@AviD Well, you really should take it seriously and get it treated. Professional help is best. Otherwise, we can't take any responsibility.

Rory Alsop

@Avid - @thomas has volunteered to contribute the odd crypto post so have added him in to the list. We now have a good pool of folks

AviD

@RoryAlsop excellent

Rory Alsop

and a reasonable queueueueueueueueueueueueueueue of posts

did you see my thinking - normal blog post every fortnight on a Tuesday, QOTW weekly on a Friday, other posts as and when

AviD

@RoryAlsop not enough ueueue's in there, I fixed it for you

Rory Alsop

but easily changeable in any case

that'll keep @Scott happy

so what kind of boat were you on

AviD

12:23 AM

@RoryAlsop sounds +1. as long as we dont get too tied down to schedule....

Rory Alsop

my youngest is almost old enough for me to teach them all how to sail

AviD

@RoryAlsop think it was a small yacht...

Rory Alsop

@AviD exactly

AviD

didja read the events of the boat?

Rory Alsop

(as each one is completed and reviewed I'm just using the scheduler, so I can forget about them)

I flicked through - sounds like windy, up and down, vomit everywhere?

AviD

12:25 AM

@RoryAlsop heh, pretty much. mainly in my lap.

Rory Alsop

heh - see what you mean about the analytics scrollbar. Did you see they keep adding graphs in the dropdown

AviD

@RoryAlsop i know, right? fantastic.

glad to see I wasnt dreaming that scrollbar, too....

nealmcb

Rory Alsop

guess we will be able to use the full SE API now as well

@nealmcb I can see it in that one

nealmcb

After adjusting the color curve a whole lot....

Rory Alsop

12:27 AM

so @Avid's colour curve on his machine must be very different to mine

nealmcb

@RoryAlsop That's the best part. And getting full dumps!

Different gamma?

AviD

@nealmcb and data, too.

Rory Alsop

hahahaha

AviD

@RoryAlsop wow, that is sooo weird.

Rory Alsop

I guess I'll need to learn how to use the API and apps properly now

AviD

12:28 AM

@RoryAlsop same!

AFTER i find time to do a blog post....

Rory Alsop

@AviD the funniest thing is that without a standard view we could happily argue the case thinking the other was mental:-)

AviD

'course, I'll really have to bring it, to fit in with the highlevel of blogging goin on round here.

@RoryAlsop thank god for the gimp.

(wasnt that a line in the usual suspects?)

Rory Alsop

LOL - I now need to create the ISACA portal based Isaca Scotland website and transition from our local one to the sharepoint hosted version. Reckon that'll take a wee while :-)

AviD

@RoryAlsop so what could I have dont to my machine to cause that?

Rory Alsop

@AviD could be

dunno - it might just be the settings specified. Have checked on my Dell whateveritis and it is on the detaults

nealmcb

12:30 AM

OK, on Holly's macbook, IF I crouch down so the screen is at a low angle, I can see it better.

this.josh

Graphics card with good alpha blending?

AviD

@nealmcb lol. sounds like some QA guys I used to know...

Rory Alsop

Heh - have found a button called 'kittenify' - if I click it, every image on the page turns into a Kitten. Guessing it's for work safety, but it makes the avatars here very amusing

(sorry, it is 1.30 in the morning, you know)

AviD

"if we do this on a tuesday, after paul comes in, but before I finish my coffee, while I'm leaning on the table, but not standing, I click with my right hand...."

@thisjosh or bad.

Rory Alsop

it made the image we have been discussing turn into a little black kitten

AviD

12:32 AM

really just the default, builtin dell laptop card.

cant even run a sickeningly high res :(

@nealmcb ha! thats it!

Rory Alsop

I liked the setup @Jin has with his twin very high res monitors

AviD

I usually have the laptop screen tilted a bit back - so it's like i'm crouching down...

pulled it up, and the whole thing went gone. made me feel woozy all over again.

@RoryAlsop only 2? didnt he read @Jeff's blog, about 3 being the new 2?

@ScottPack maaan, that made me larf.

Scott Pack

@thisjosh Your screenshot is exactly the reason I haven't started using chrome yet. Once you get up beyond a few dozen open tabs, usability goes a bit into ye old flusher

@AviD What is it with you and gimps! Something about leather and zippers. Tut.

@AviD I aim to pleasure :)

this.josh

Its not mine, I only use lynx heh

AviD

@ScottPack heheh

Scott Pack

12:37 AM

In another chat, a few days ago, I asked the fellow if anymore strawmen would be joining us. He was not amused.

AviD

@ScottPack luvvit

Scott Pack

@AviD I've been a 3 monitor kind of guy for a long time. I really dig it.

AviD

@ScottPack I'm all for it.

Scott Pack

Though since going off the Mac platform it's been driven by two computers, so slightly less exciting.

AviD

right now, I still need the mobile office, and the homeoffice just doesnt have enough space....

I have to settle with 17" laptop....

real bear to lug around though...

heh, but no wings!

Rory Alsop

12:40 AM

I want a 17" laptop. My current client has given me a 12" and it just ain't big enough

yeah yeah..SHE SAID

@AviD LOL

wish I'd taken a screenshot of @Thomas's avatar next to @M'vy's - Ursine death from above indeed

Scott Pack

The wife had a 17" at home. That thing is a monstrosity.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack SHE SAID...

ahem

I'll shut up now

AviD

@RoryAlsop lol

Scott Pack

I'm real keen on my 11.6" display

AviD

it almost makes up for being on a laptop...

Rory Alsop

12:42 AM

@AviD have popped up a quick answer on your OWASP post

AviD

urggh. why dont you just switch to tablet?

Scott Pack

It's funny when we're sitting next to each other on the couch.

AviD

@RoryAlsop cool, thanks.

i figure, I spend SO MANY hours in front of the damn thing, I should be comfortable.

Scott Pack

@AviD 1) Cost, the x100e was <$500. 2) I wanted a real computer

This is just my laptop. In the office I'm looking at a 19"+23"+22"

AviD

11.6" ? thats not a real computer, thats a computer's toy.

;)

@ScottPack awww niiiice

other than the diffs in sizes... which you mentioned.

@RoryAlsop speaking of...

Scott Pack

12:45 AM

@AviD Yeah, it's unfortunate, but it usually doesn't cause problems. The 19" is my Windows machine, it's pretty much just for Office apps and IE, so the small size isn't so bad.

Rory Alsop

@AviD do you know Eoin through OWASP leadership? I'll do introductions if not

AviD

0

Q: OWASP Conference Sponsorship

In the spirit of this post, and several others on this site and on the SE blog, I'd like to see if SEI and ITsec can sponsor the upcoming OWASP regional conference, in Israel (in September). A while ago, I had proposed this in a Meta.SO post, but didnt get much response. Now, with the confere...

discussion feature-request conference promotion

@RoryAlsop I - not personally, but others here do.

he's a good guy, though.

Rory Alsop

I know him very well - he used to work on my team, and was the core of technical delivery for me on a xx million point piece of work

very good guy

AviD

@RoryAlsop oh yeah?

I keep being pleasantly surprised at how small our whorld is. and getting smaller....

meant "our" world, i.e. security people.

Rory Alsop

aye

Have added minor edits to @Ninefingers' post: a bit of wording tweak and a final conclusion paragraph

and think I should go to bed. Getting up in 5 hours.

night all

AviD

12:53 AM

me too.

Scott Pack

G'night

AviD

gnite all

gnite @Moon.

Rory Alsop

gnite @cow jumping over @moon

Scott Pack

G'night @noiseseverywhere

Rory Alsop

@AviD - quick one - you could do a community advert for OWASP. If it gets 6 votes it too will go in rotation...

I mean for your particular conference

really going now. ttfn

AviD

12:55 AM

@RoryAlsop cool idea!

actually, for the conference I dont think it is worth the bother - I dont think there are too many in my region on the site, that dont already know owasp.

I was looking more for the other way... but I like the idea of community adverts, anyway!

Rebecca Chernoff

make one for the blog! (:

AviD

@RebeccaChernoff yeah!

oof, was gonna test my hypothesis, but we're not on data.se yet... :(

@RebeccaChernoff I assume that happens next datadump?

Rebecca Chernoff

right

what were you going to test?

Oh, a location query?

AviD

@RebeccaChernoff how many users we have so far from Israel region.

yup.

if i had to guess, I would say less than a dozen.

Scott Pack

Assuming location is correctly filled

AviD

12:59 AM

if i had to put money on it, I'd say a handful.

@ScottPack yes, assuming...

or filled at all.

Scott Pack

Are you thinking on all SE sites, or just security?

AviD

meant here.

SO has a very large number.

dont know if its disproportionately large, but large.

I do know that there are many lurkers from round here, but not so many registered users.

anyway, me and me ridiculous low-angle super-alpha-blend laptop are gonna say gnite.

Iszi

4:37 AM

Does anyone else think this question is being stretched to unrealistic and/or unreasonable extremes? I've posted an answer that I hope should resolve the situation, but still...

1

Q: Protecting your self from a malcious VPN.

I am connecting to a VPN server that has been compromised and is under the complete control of an attacker. The virtual network its self contains numerous attackers waiting for a new target. What steps should be taken to protect myself in this hostile environment? (Yes, I have to use a VPN tha...

vpn

Hendrik Brummermann

5:53 AM

I don't see the difference between that and the Internet.

A reason to use untrusted VPNs is to make it more difficult to impossible to be tracked by police.

this.josh

Funny. I guess on the internet you don't know if someone is targeting you.

M'vy

8:32 AM

Well that question made me laugh :P

Rory Alsop

Morning @M'vy

M'vy

Hi @RoryAlsop , what's up?

Rory Alsop

It's a lovely sunny morning in Edinburgh - all good

how's things with you?

M'vy

Nice. The weather is not so good @Paris though

As cloudy as you could wish :S

But the new design keeps me happy :P

Rory Alsop

8:48 AM

it is very nice:-)

M'vy

yep

M'vy

9:18 AM

Hm can't refresh the favicon, even with Jin's technique

I got the right one when querying cdn. Maybe I should clear cache

hm... well not important.

> pepe Jul 12 2011 : New design is very nice. Now how do i get the simple one back, without the lion king?

Did he really want the old back?

Scott Pack

11:29 AM

@Mvy Sure reads that way

M'vy

hmm

Scott Pack

That's what she said.

M'vy

"Dear non-paying customer, ..."

Scott Pack

:)

M'vy

12:00 PM

Oh the favicon transmuted itself now :P

Scott Pack

"Transmuted". Sounds very 16th century.

M'vy

The favicon transdigitalised itself? :D

Scott Pack

Oh, I'm not denigrating your use of ye olde words. It's very quaint.

Well, I suppose I can close the Area51 Security tab now.

C. Ross

12:19 PM

RIP: HNN (again)

Scott Pack

So is that like the "Year of the Linux Desktop"?

@CRoss HNN gone?

Morning pops

morning young'un

@RoryAlsop looks that way

also, congratulations on graduation, well done

Rory Alsop

12:26 PM

@CRoss I must have missed news of it - thought all was good again

@CRoss do you like the whizzy new design?

C. Ross

@RoryAlsop I should have specified the HNN Cast with SpaceRogue

Rory Alsop

Ahh - gotcha

Rory Alsop

12:39 PM

Was just looking at the theme again, and don't you think it looks like Leo is trapped in a glowing blue glass box? Especially on Meta :-)

Scott Pack

Oh good. The builders finally finished the door access plan and installed the Man Trap. Too bad we caught a lion

C. Ross

@RoryAlsop I like it, but I'm not sure I get the logo ...

the shield I get, but the lion, the wings, and the sun flares?

I need to read up on heraldry again so I can describe this thing properly

Rory Alsop

the noble and powerful lion on the great shield of security, wings for swiftness and protection, the various flanking maneuvers and battles raging in the background

direct quote from:

security.blogoverflow.com/2011/07/12/…

M'vy

I must say: I'm relieved we did not use the padlock

Way too mainstream :P

Rory Alsop

@Mvy yeah - me too, even though I strongly pushed for it. Lions is betterer

Iszi

12:46 PM

@CRoss I think @Jin posted a link to the page he used for inspiration. Let me see if I can find it.

M'vy

@RoryAlsop go there : google.com/… and count :P

C. Ross

hmm, how come the blog isn't skinned?

M'vy

@Jin did not have time to make it I guess.

Iszi

@CRoss Wasn't ready in time for launch. Still in progress.

@CRoss fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm

Scott Pack

@CRoss Lazy designer. Just like Graendal, we can't blame @Jin for fulfilling his nature.

C. Ross

12:49 PM

@Iszi ty.

Iszi

21 hours ago, by Jin

oh i wasn't able to get the blog theme converted. but that's on my to-dos today.

C. Ross

noted

Rory Alsop

@Iszi Blue - truth/loyalty | Lion - bravery, strength, ferocity, valour| Wings - switfness, protection...but it doesn't have Tron-lines on that heraldry page

M'vy

@RoryAlsop LOL :P

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop Yet!

I'm a gonna attempt to add them to mine now.

Rory Alsop

12:54 PM

@ScottPack you have a heraldry page? Or a family shield?

Scott Pack

Family shield

Rory Alsop

Need to see what my family coat of arms means. I managed to find the correct meaning for our motto - Festina Lente, but no idea on the design.

Thomas Pornin

@Iszi Currently there are four answers to the question; they all say about the same thing (don't connect to it, or treat it just like any other hostile network, i.e. "the Internet").

For some unspecified reason, the questioner is not happy with that response, and is prone to downvote answers.

Scott Pack

Truthfully, I alternate between using my paternal grandmother's line (Scott) or my paternal line (Pack) depending on what best suits the event.

Thomas Pornin

You cannot force a questioner to accept a correct response.

Scott Pack

12:58 PM

My wedding, for instance, I went with Scott. That way we could more reasonably justify the kilts. :)

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin very true, however we can upvote correct responses

@ScottPack good plan - I approve

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop which I did

Scott Pack

I thought that question got closed

M'vy

Oh wait @ScottPack you mean Scott and Pack are too Last names?

Scott Pack

@Mvy I suppose pointing out that I was named for her might help your confusion :)

Rory Alsop

1:00 PM

@ThomasPornin me too - I think the questioner just has a really limited focus on the real world. Within his sphere of expertise I think he seems quite noted/notorious, but I upvoted all the answers to that question I think, as they all show practical understanding of real world issues.

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop Do you suppose he has a very specific answer in mind, and feels that anything else is patently wrong and not useful?

Rory Alsop

could be

Iszi

@Mvy Had to clear the cache on my home machine. I think it's kinda crazy that we have to do anything special for it to work. But, not being a web developer myself, I can't say if it's a programming issue on the website's part or on the browser's part.

Scott Pack

@Iszi Cacheing is a big problem in the intartubes world, and the bigger the site the worse it gets.

M'vy

@Iszi: worked well on my home desktop.. but not the laptop. And suddenly it changed :P

Iszi

1:04 PM

@HendrikBrummermann So, we should close it as "black hat"?

M'vy

And I'm quite sure there is not cache since I'm using my own tunnel :P

we have that close reason @Iszi ?

:D

Iszi

@Mvy Technically, it falls under "off-topic". Speaking of which... @Jin: Now that we're fully graduated, do we get a real list of migration options?

Rory Alsop

hello @Hedge - welcome

and @Excel20

Iszi

1:25 PM

I love this one! Probably my favorite idea yet!

1

A: Design for IT Security

My favorite 404 page of all time is one I ran across at the Colorado School of Mines years ago. They now use a boring one, but their old one is now memorialized at http://bcn.boulder.co.us/~neal/humor/marvin-the-server-404.html

Rory Alsop

@nealmcb - how long have you had the Marvin page up there?

Scott Pack

@Iszi They'll have caching at at least 3 places: The HA loadbalancer on site, the CDN (possibly each individual CDN node depending on implementation), and your browser. Possibly more at other places.

Sorry, I had that half typed out when I received a customer

nealmcb

@Iszi :)

@RoryAlsop I'm guessing Marvin has been lurking there since 2003

Rory Alsop

@nealmcb I like it. Just upvoted that post.

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Modified date on the page is 11/26/2006.

Rory Alsop

1:39 PM

@Jin - check out the 404 page here: meta.security.stackexchange.com/questions/345/…

Scott Pack

I've got an idea for a 404, throwing together a proof

nealmcb

@Iszi Yup - 2003-06 or so. Though I've tweaked it slightly since then.

(that's "-06" as in "-June"....)

Good old ISO-standard dates and all...

Scott Pack

1:53 PM

@nealmcb Sorry it took me so long to get that auditd post put together. For the most part, it just took me a while to get a big enough lump of time to actually do it.

Is that the kind of thing you were looking for? Any glaring holes that you really wanted, but I missed?

I wasn't intending to fish, but I suppose that answers that.

nealmcb

2:17 PM

@ScottPack Heh - I hadn't seen your chats here, but I just accepted and added a comment to your answer. Of course I want a full soup-to-nuts example with sample output, associated analysis of the auditd output, management of it in the context of updates to the production server, etc.

But that's asking a lot....

But hey, I can ask :)

Scott Pack

Analysis of these things is hard, I won't argue there. I'm actually thinking talking about that part may be best as a separate question.

Put your scope too high and you very quickly run into the limits of readability of the medium.

G'morning, @alexg

Iszi

Seems like lots of new people coming to the chat since we went live. Nice! Now, if only they'd actually... chat.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack heh - very appropriate

@Iszi that's a hint, right

Iszi

@RoryAlsop What? Too subtle?

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop It was a shower idea so I'm not sure how inspired it is, but it amused me.

Rory Alsop

2:28 PM

a shower event?

Scott Pack

Hm. I should probably edit that.

Iszi

@RoryAlsop @ScottPack Okay... I feel like I'm not "getting" something.

Scott Pack

@Iszi So kind of like a normal day, eh?

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack that makes more sense

'event' implies... well...

Scott Pack

Yeah...

To be fair, the original post still makes perfect sense. It was just inappropriately descriptive.

Iszi

2:33 PM

Still feeling out of the loop...

Rory Alsop

(think he thought of the idea while in the shower)

Scott Pack

taps his nose

Iszi

@RoryAlsop I got that much...

Scott Pack

wonders how long we can reasonably draw this out

Iszi

@RoryAlsop It's this that I think I'm missing something on.

Rory Alsop

2:35 PM

LOL

@Scott's new 404 pic works well in the current times, what with Wikileaks etc

Iszi

@RoryAlsop What new 404 pic? I saw "working on a proof...". Am I missing the link with the actual pic somewhere?

Scott Pack

1

A: Design for IT Security

Another concept for a 404 message. -- Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

Iszi

@ScottPack Oh. See, it would help if you'd actually said "throwing together a proof", "Okay, it's up now".

@ScottPack BTW: Regarding your first "fail" suggestion, it's really hard (for me at least) to notice the gate in the middle there. I've been scratching my head for days on that and just now saw it.

Matter of fact, I only even began to look for it after checking the link to where you found it and seeing "gate" in the search terms.

Scott Pack

Fair enough. The coloring does make it hard to see the gate, I can agree with that.

I've been seeing that image thrown around for years. It has rather embedded itself in my consciousness.

Iszi

I will say, now that I see it, it's fairly amusing.

Hehe.... The Register: "Microsoft kills Windows Vista SP1 support
Update to proper, working Vista! We call it 'Windows 7'"

Scott Pack

2:44 PM

There's a building here in town that has a 15ft tall fence and gate, but it only stretches along the road until the property line....

Iszi

I wonder if there's ever been another time in computing history, when one OS version has (in terms of official support by the vendor) out-lived its successor. For that matter, any software at all?

Rory Alsop

I'm thinking mainframes outliving everything...

Scott Pack

Mm....tandems

Rory Alsop

best reliability evar!

Scott Pack

After the thermonuclear apocalypse the world will be populated by nothing but dandelions, cockroaches, Twinkies, and Tandem NonStops.

Rory Alsop

2:52 PM

ahh - so pretty

if I was artistic I'd draw the image in my head right now

but I'm not

Scott Pack

fscking dandelions

Jin

hey guys. just wanna give you an update on the blog. i've been working on our new mobile theme, haven't had the time to do the Security blog theme conversion. but it should definitely go out this week.

nealmcb

@Iszi What - is there longer support for XP than Vista or something?

Scott Pack

XPsp3 is still supported

nealmcb

But not vista?

Scott Pack

2:57 PM

@Jin It happens.

/me shrugs

Iszi

@nealmcb Exactly. Vista was so not-well-received by businesses (and everyone else, for that matter) that Microsoft extended XPSP3 support beyond Vista's lifetime.

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