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12:00 PM
@Jis12yearsold. 100% agree. I don't understand how there are celebrities who exist without doing anything other than being celebrities. Why do they get viewers, funding, gifts, sponsorship? People are messed up if those are their heroes
 
Anonymous
@RoryAlsop Well, it all comes down to the para-social relationships thing. I think a lot of people that follow celebrities (sadly) are damaged. They likely don't have much confidence, self-esteem or are working through a lot of tough issues.
 
Anonymous
I think celebrities in general knowingly take advantage of that. By the sorts of things they promote, engage in, etc. It is a really toxic and harmful cycle.
 
@Jis12yearsold. but will paying for these celebrities to have overprivileged lifestyles help that? I think it mostly does the opposite (occasional exceptions aside)
 
Anonymous
It's all well and good to say: "well don't donate" but when you form what you believe is a bond with someone, it's hard to break out of that...
 
Anonymous
@RoryAlsop No, it doesn't. Exactly!
 
12:01 PM
@Jis12yearsold. yep - it is an abuse of power
 
Anonymous
You're exactly right.
 
Anonymous
It doesn't solve the true problem.
 
Anonymous
But sadly, a lot of people involved in these kinda' relationships with celebrities don't have the mental willpower or emotional intelligence to find another way out. And they see it that the only people supporting them in life are their idols.
 
Anonymous
The very ones who are also squeezing money from them in any way possible...
 
Even in the infosec world I avoid "celebrities" - the infosec rock star types (other than those of us who are actual rock stars in a musical sense, obviously)
 
Anonymous
12:03 PM
As I said, it is a totally viscous cycle. And I should add most of the fault does not lay on the donators.
 
@Jis12yearsold. agreed
probably mostly the media, closely followed by the celebrities
 
Anonymous
@RoryAlsop Yes, me too. I hold much higher standards for people in this industry so when I see themselves promoting themselves in an A-lister style way it gives me one opinion only...
 
Anonymous
Greedy.
 
Anonymous
I have the same view on those "infosec celebrities" who make outrageously overpriced & terrible courses for platforms like INE.
 
Anonymous
They have a name so they get offered these contracts and sponsors whatever for huge sums of money. And they know people will buy it PURELY because of their name being known.
 
Anonymous
12:05 PM
I think it's wrong and shameful. Especially when most of them are on a 6 figure salary.
 
Anonymous
They literally do not need anymore money. But instead of setting up campaigns for good causes, they set up campaigns in which their fans fill their pockets even more.
 
Anonymous
It's vile.
 
Anonymous
So to add some positivity to this: I'd like to give a round of applause to LiveOverflow for always remaining consistent in what he's willing to accept as a form of payment for all the high quality content he's made.
 
Anonymous
He's never made a bullshit course. HE's never allowed wild donations to go to his pockets. He's never taken these nasty sponsorships which pray on the weak and make him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
Anonymous
And there are other well known infosec "celebrities" like that! but he springs to mind.
 
12:07 PM
@Jis12yearsold. yep - seems like a good one
 
Anonymous
Yeah! Super nice guy too. Was actually meant to meet him when I went to Berlin but I think he got caught up so didn't in the end.
 
Anonymous
I won't name and shame his counterparts who do partake in some of the actions I listed above :)
 
@Jis12yearsold. Just to be clear, I absolutely abhor the sort of celebrities you are talking about. In case you thought from my previous messages that I'm defending them
 
Anonymous
But if you spend about 10 minutes on Twitter I am sure you can find a few of these people with ease...
 
Anonymous
@nobody Not at all :)
 
12:10 PM
Thing is I'm out of touch with the world. The only infosec celebrities I know about are schneier and jann horn
 
Anonymous
Yes, I urge you to support people who've contributed masses amount of good, security research to the world and not people who shitpost on Twitter and have 200,000 followers because of it.
 
For me the bear is an infosec celebrity.
2
 
Anonymous
^
 
Anonymous
+1 forever and always.
 
Ofcourse
 
Anonymous
12:11 PM
The Bear IS an infosec celebrity.
 
Anonymous
A mighty fine one at that.
 
There's also DJB and Moxie.
 
The bear is hard working. :D
 
Anonymous
Well, I would have agreed with Moxie until as of about a month ago @A.Hersean
 
And Matt Green
 
Anonymous
12:12 PM
His new plans for Signal are dangerous, arrogant, reckless and honestly, shameful.
 
Hey it seems like the cryptographers are the good guys mostly
 
Anonymous
Most of them, absolutely.
 
@Jis12yearsold. Yeah... However I wait to have more unbiased information on this before forming an opinion.
 
Followed by the good binex people
 
Anonymous
@A.Hersean What information released so far is biased?
 
Anonymous
12:13 PM
Moxie said he was never involved with MobileCoin, he was previously CTO.
 
Anonymous
Moxie says he has no ties with MobileCoin at all, he was a technical advisor.
 
The business model of Signal relying on donations is shaky. Seeking another form of revenue is legitimate.
 
Anonymous
They sold the coins as far back as 2017. They didn't upload the server source code for over a year.
 
Anonymous
What is biased about that? That is shady at best... And outright dangerous at worst.
 
@A.Hersean Well, you have a point
But they could have been a little less shady about it
 
Anonymous
12:14 PM
@A.Hersean I agree. But they've been seeking this form of revenue since 2017 yet never declared it...
 
Anonymous
They're an open source project who didn't open source their code for a year, that's... Horrible. That alone is horrible. When you throw in the rest it screams of: "we don't care about the users now we went mainstream".
 
The new way of earning money is shady, might be malicious, but it might just be poor knowledge of laws, poor communication and mistakes in the design along the way.
 
Anonymous
I don't think any of the published information so far is biased... I think it is indicative of their feelings towards the app.
 
Anonymous
I am all for them searching a new form of revenue. But as nobody said, they couldn't have done it in a more shady way if they tried.
 
Anonymous
That is the real crux of the issue here, not the feature itself.
 
Anonymous
12:17 PM
@A.Hersean Hmm, fair point I guess.
 
What I find biased is all the shitstorm of over inflated info and speculation from crypto(currency)nerds that are angry their cryptocoin was not selected.
 
Anonymous
But "poor knowledge of laws" seems far-fetched given they are well aware that the only time a warrant cannot work is when you literally don't have access to the requested information.
 
Anonymous
Except their new coin design.. They do have access to the data...
 
Anonymous
So they SHOULD know that is a shitstorm waiting to happen.
 
Anonymous
BUt the other points I accepty.
 
Anonymous
12:18 PM
Not the knowledge of laws part...
 
They tried to build a cryptocurrency with constraints that do not meet. They had to make compromises. A shitstorm is bound to happen whatever compromise they choose.
 
@A.Hersean I mean, its absolutely abhorrent they didn't choose unicoins
 
Anonymous
@A.Hersean But that doesn't really excuse the fact that they should be aware that making a system in which they have access to transaction data can only end with that system being intruded by all the three letter agencies in the world and three letter agencies alike.
 
Anonymous
Having ran Signal, they should know that. They should be aware of the way such agencies operate... It is common sense when you run a project like Signal.
 
Yes, I find absolutely no reason why the cryptocurrency had to be integrated into Signal
It could be doe as a separate project
 
Anonymous
12:23 PM
@nobody Yeah sadly a lot of binex people work for governments and sell exploits to places like israel. Or sell to zerodium who sell to governments like israel and the US.
 
Anonymous
@nobody Well, it's as @A.Hersean they are using it for the avenue of actually funding Signal, the messaging side.
 
@Jis12yearsold. Well, the one's that work for the spooks aren't celebrities
 
@Jis12yearsold. Yeah, maybe. I didn't delve in the design of their cryptocoin, so I don't know. Maybe they thought that SGX enclaves would solve this issue.
 
Anonymous
@nobody Quite right. They're even worse than the celebrities.
 
@Jis12yearsold. No but you can fund signal even if the coins are a separate app
 
Anonymous
12:25 PM
@nobody Good point...
 
@nobody Because when they began to think about it, it was the trend every messaging app was following.
 
Anonymous
@A.Hersean Also a good counter argument...
 
Now, it looks like everybody abandoned this idea. I don't know why Signal continued.
 
Anonymous
Lucky for us, I don't think the situation is so dire we should stop using the messaging side...
 
Anonymous
Although, depending on their response I will be exclusively migrating to XMPP as far as a messaging system goes.
 
Anonymous
12:27 PM
One thing that I take away the most from all of this is, I really fear for the state of privacy in the next 15 years...
 
Anonymous
I mean, soon all that will be left is the tor project and xmr. That's just worrying.
 
Barring the payment side, which I don't see how it could work in practice, the messaging part of Signal is well done.
 
Anonymous
@A.Hersean Oh agreed. It's fantastic!
 
@Jis12yearsold. 2030: "The tor project has decided to switch to using a blockchain for providing anonymity"
:P
 
Anonymous
@nobody LOL
 
12:29 PM
@Jis12yearsold. despite forest's hate for it...
There's matrix
 
Anonymous
Forest hates Matrix?
 
and they're trying to/working on a fully decentralised system for it
@Jis12yearsold. yup
 
Anonymous
DO you know why?
 
Anonymous
Or do you have a link where he explains why?
 
Cause of people using IRC bridges
 
Anonymous
12:31 PM
Right.
 
Anonymous
So not that he thinks it is pseudo privacy or something?
 
naw, just the idiots :D
 
Anonymous
I see, that's fair enough.
 
Anonymous
I am quite a big fan of Matrix, I must say.
 
The homeserver/federation model isn't too bad
 
Anonymous
12:31 PM
Yeah!
 
Its in active development - unlike IRC
 
Anonymous
Although, I will say. Matrix seems slightly redundant if you're already using XMPP...
 
Possibly
 
Anonymous
I mean, there seems little reason to move from XMPP to Matrix. But Matrix can communicate with XMPP users so!
 
BRIDGE ALL THE THINGS
 
Anonymous
12:32 PM
As I said, I quite like Matrix. I think it's pretty good.
 
Anonymous
I like the decentralization for sure.
 
lol
Its a bit too robust
We have 3-4 homeservers people use, mostly on 1 and everything works perfectly for everyone else if one goes down
So we ended up setting up a monitoring system for the servers
 
i'm at a meeting right now
But instead I look at cute anime girls
 
We're not going to judge
or tattle :D
 
Anonymous
@JourneymanGeek I must say, the app, is it... Element?
 
Anonymous
12:37 PM
I don't like it much...
 
Matrix has a lot of good ideas. But the development quality was very poor last time I checked.
 
@Jis12yearsold. there's options
 
Anonymous
Too many features...
 
I have a terminal client on one of my linux boxen
 
And the community is full of arrogant nerds, from what I've seen.
Maybe it's better now.
I hope so.
 
12:38 PM
Oh I thought you talked about the movie
 
I wanted to make a joke about the movie
 
Anonymous
@JourneymanGeek Oh, that's cool!
 
@Jis12yearsold. gomuks
 
But I preferred clarity over trolliness.
 
Anonymous
Thank you :D
 
Anonymous
12:41 PM
Yeah, Matrix does seem pretty ideal. Although, I think I might just stick with XMPP.
 
@Jis12yearsold. whatever works for you
For my community, the big sell on anything is self hosting.
 
Anonymous
OMEMO is perfectly secure. There's a lot of people still using it. Pretty sure that Olm or whatever Matrix calls it is quite similar anyways. Not to mention, XMPP is very much still used by a lot of people and plugins under scrutiny.
 
Anonymous
Going back to Signal for a sec, this reminds me of what happened to Keybase..
 
The same (lots of use & secure) can be said with GPG. That does not prevent it to be deprecated in my book.
 
Anonymous
Keybase was great... Then they integrated Stellar..
 
12:44 PM
I don't get keybase
In the beginning, I thought it was just "post your public key and link it between twitter, github, fb, etc..."
 
Anonymous
It is great! It is so you can cryptographically prove that your sites, social accounts, etc are yours!
 
Not really
 
Anonymous
What do you mean not really?
 
Anonymous
That is quite literally what it does.
 
You can prove that the person who owns this github account is the same person who owns this twitter account
But not necessarily that it's "you"
 
Anonymous
12:45 PM
Right, sure. But you could say that about PGP in general.
 
Correct
 
Anonymous
If you want to put it in those terms.
 
Not a flaw with keybase
 
you still need the equivalent of an in-person key-signing party
 
But yes, it cryptographically links accounts on different platforms
 
Anonymous
12:45 PM
Yes, which is a good service...
 
@RoryAlsop Correct, which is why the web of trust never caught on
I speak to a lot of people across the globe I never met and likely will never meet
 
I mean, I use keybase, and I got a free bunch of XLM out of it - think that's around £600 now
 
@Jis12yearsold. Undoubtedly
 
which is nice
 
But then they just added so much BS to it
Like chats, filesharing, etc.. and I'm like wtf is this shit?!
 
12:46 PM
@MechMK1 yeah - I only want it for the identification
 
@RoryAlsop Same!
 
Anonymous
Oh yeah, the rest I don't like.
 
UNIX Philosophy prevails here: Do one thing only, and do it well!
 
Like sure, SE could also integrate a file share. Do we need it? Fuck no!
The chat is already tacked-on
 
Anonymous
12:48 PM
I am glad this chat is so simple...
 
Anonymous
No more features are needed.
 
I mean, I love shitposting in the DMZ but I am pretty sure 99% of daily SE users don't even know that the chat exists
 
Anonymous
Here at StackExchange we concentrate on the SHIT POSTING.
 
Anonymous
not on the features to shit post.
 
Anonymous
respectfully...
 
12:48 PM
The shitposting is the feature
 
Anonymous
Correct :D
 
All my well-researched answers are written in a totally sarcastic tone people just don't get
 
Anonymous
You know the other slight downfall of Keybase?
 
Hm?
 
Anonymous
It doesn't let you link every platform.
 
Anonymous
12:49 PM
In-fact, you can link very few...
 
But, somehow, 50% of the shitposting is more or less related to infosec nonetheless
 
Anonymous
Unless I'm wrong?
 
No idea which platforms are supported these days
I haven't used it in like forever
 
Anonymous
There's probably a way of linking more.
 
@A.Hersean often more than that :-)
 
12:52 PM
Quick unrelated poll: do you prefer "infosec", "cyber" or "cybersecurity"?
 
Anonymous
I don't really have much use for keybase these days anyways.
 
Anonymous
I deleted my entire life.
 
@A.Hersean InfoSec
 
Anonymous
@A.Hersean 1337.
 
@Jis12yearsold. "ALAS POOR JJ, I HARDLY KNEW... who?"
 
12:52 PM
I can't take anything with the word "cyber" in it seriously.
 
Anonymous
@MechMK1 yeah its zoomer level cringe
 
Anonymous
and im a zoomer...
 
@Jis12yearsold. It's 31337. You lost your nerd card.
 
cyber is boomer af
 
@MechMK1 what do you call cyber warfare? I don't remember hearing any other term for it
 
Anonymous
12:54 PM
@nobody Porn?
 
Anonymous
Okay, I'm sorry.
 
"cyberwarfare" == bullshit
 
Anonymous
That was funny though...
 
@nobody Is that the newest Call of Duty?
 
@A.Hersean Yeah, so cyber fits there, right? cuz you ain't supposed to take it seriously
 
12:54 PM
@A.Hersean information security
 
Poor old Rory Alsop. Doesn't support abbreviations :)
 
For me, "cyber" means either "cybernetics" (as in "cyberpunk") or is a shorthand for "cyberbullshit".
 
cyberpunk is literally the only cyber-thing I don't find cringe
 
@MechMK1 William Gibson rocks
@nobody old age does that to a person
 
Yes, he does
 
12:57 PM
@nobody "information security" is fine, though
 
It just takes me too long to type
 
Anonymous
@RoryAlsop heh
 
infosec, cyber, and cybersec all sound like something if I told my mum, she'd be like 'ccccccuse me?!'
 
@nobody My kids love to use extreme shorthand when typing. I would far rather they type every word correctly, and use appropriate punctuation
 

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