The DMZ

Yeah, and I said the same thing, except instead of saying "You can suck my nuts" I said "I believe we should wait before those terms become commonly used in practice as well"

ThoriumBR

it have like 20 ingredients on it, and weights a pound

Conor Mancone

There is a youtube channel called Good Mythical Morning, and one of their (many!) shows was about making a feast at a gas station

their most terrible concoction was to take all of the cheese "bars" out of the fridge section, melt them all together in a paper cup in the microwave, form the terribly gross result into a ball, and then crush up a couple bags of nachos/cheetos.

Then they rolled the ball in the crushed chips and tried dipping various things in it

:vomit:

ThoriumBR

... but why?

Conor Mancone

Because you never know when you need to have a hot date at a gas station?

Journeyman Geek

1:10 PM

becasuse people like their entertainment like they like their food... horribly greasy overprocessed mashups that make you feel a little ill?

Conor Mancone

They always have some reason, but everyone understands why they do it: because it entertains people and they run an entire business off of doing ridiculous things that people will watch on youtube

MechMK1

@ConorMancone I'm pretty sure I will never have

But unironically, I love the food at our local gas station

It's just a sandwich, but its freshly made

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek I have to take every single switch out of my keyboard and re-lube my stabs...

Conor Mancone

@MechMK1 Don't worry, it's not just you - there's no such thing as a hot date at a gas station :)

MechMK1

And they even toast it for you

Anonymous

1:11 PM

That is going to be absolutely fucking painful..

Anonymous

I didn't put enough on and the space bar rattle is SO bad.

ThoriumBR

@JourneymanGeek some people think it's funny to see absurd things...

Anonymous

i thought it was enough because it felt decent for the first day

MechMK1

The DMZ turned into /Keyboard Fetish General/

Anonymous

but its getting worse, presumably because it is not thick lube

ThoriumBR

1:12 PM

that's why I think it's funny when a guy replaced the hammers on a piano with actual hammers

Anonymous

ahahhahahahahahahaha @MechMK1

Journeyman Geek

@J-- ._.

Conor Mancone

My keyboard died a couple months ago :(

Anonymous

Removing 68 switches from a PCB...

Conor Mancone

I've been using the same brand for years - it's made on the same equipment as the classic IBM model M, and I've loved it

Anonymous

1:12 PM

the most painful part is clipping them back into the plate afterwards :D

Conor Mancone

but when I went to order a new one their website said it would be weeks until it shipped

I nearly died :(

Journeyman Geek

@J-- So.... one of the things I have on my to do list is replace 2 of the key switches on my unfortunately named 'metoo zero' which are faulty...

Conor Mancone

Ended up buying some other brand of mechanical keyboard. Sadly, it has been a fairly smooth transition. :sigh:

Anonymous

I am guessing just a bent pin or something? @JourneymanGeek

Anonymous

I did that with 3 of my switches this build, it is really annoying to know how much force to put in...

Journeyman Geek

1:14 PM

@J-- its wierd the O and C either don't actuate or double actuate

and they are soldered on :D

Anonymous

Oh, it's solder.

Anonymous

I use hotswap PCBs...

Anonymous

I change my mind a lot, being able to just unclip a switch is really useful :D

Journeyman Geek

oh

this is roughly the cheapest mechanical keyboard you can buy

aliexpress.com/item/32812344569.html

Anonymous

Ah okay, yeah makes sense it is solder.

Anonymous

1:18 PM

I think the hotswap pcbs usually cost more

Anonymous

i might be wrong

Anonymous

but i think theyre a bit extra usually

Journeyman Geek

this is like 30 quid :D

Anonymous

Yeah, I see that :D

ThoriumBR

a bit wide pressure threshold:
Trigger pressure:58.9± 14.7g

Journeyman Geek

1:19 PM

its mechanical keyboard prices and it isn't terrible other than the bad keys

ThoriumBR

it can be 46g or 74g...

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR :D

Anonymous

74g, wow.

ThoriumBR

or 46, depending on the key...

Anonymous

I think NK Creams are 62 or 67. And it is quite a lot.

Anonymous

1:20 PM

74 is insane :D That is very heavy.

ThoriumBR

or the black switches that even heavier:
Trigger pressure:78.9± 14.7g

can be all way up to 92g...

Journeyman Geek

keebworks.com/jixian-blue

It has these :D

"We spared all expense!"

ThoriumBR

> The Jixian Blue appears to be a clone of the Cherry MX Blue. In this case, it’s a rather poor clone as it’s notably higher pitched, less tactile and more rattily to type on. It’s a good thing this switch went under the radar for most people.

Anonymous

I have a feeling the second weight is the bottom out.

Anonymous

It doesn't seem right otherwise.

Anonymous

1:23 PM

46/76 is a huge gap, lol.

Anonymous

It should actuate at 46

Anonymous

and the bottom out is probably at 76

Anonymous

not actuate at 46 OR 76.

Anonymous

I mean, I don't know.

Anonymous

It just sounds strange otherwise.

Journeyman Geek

1:24 PM

I ordered about 10 cherry blues from aliexpress (I HOPE they are wierd clones)

@J-- I don't really think anyone who bothers to measure would buy one :D

ThoriumBR

the ± on that line makes me believe it's a tolerance...

so it would be 58.9g on average, but going up or down around 14.7g

Maarten Bodewes

If you want clickies Kailh box whites would suite you better with the click bar.

Anonymous

Hmm. See, that's odd because, these NK Creams are 55/70.

Journeyman Geek

@MaartenBodewes oh I mostly use cherry blues

Anonymous

@MaartenBodewes Kailh Box Whites are cool :D

Anonymous

1:26 PM

I prefer Box Jades though :D

Journeyman Geek

my last keyboard was used so much they went from clicky tactiles to silent linears :D

Maarten Bodewes

LOL, at least that cannot happen with the Kailh browns on my UHK :)

Journeyman Geek

@MaartenBodewes oh these were cherries and I used it heavily for over a decade

Anonymous

I really want to do a split build!

Anonymous

But I don't think I could ever get used to typing like that.

Journeyman Geek

1:28 PM

I am half jokingly thinking of getting a hot air desoldering gun and some flux and removing and transplanting the keys to another keyboard

Maarten Bodewes

I haven't tried ortho-linear yet. I'll try that for sure.

MechMK1

@JourneymanGeek I was about to say "Who looks at reviews of keyboard mechanisms?" and then I realized I just watched a video about an obscure WWI era pistol.

Anonymous

I am still hoping that the Space65 goes on sale again soon, I REALLY want one.

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 I'm not as bad as @J--, and he's not that bad

ThoriumBR

I still have to buy a cheap PS2-to-USB adapter... I have an IBM Model-M stored somewhere

Journeyman Geek

1:30 PM

I looked that one up mainly for the 'what the toot is that' factor

MechMK1

"So what keyboard do you have, Mech?"
"A black one"

Anonymous

lol

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 There's people with hammers.

ThoriumBR

"and you, Thorium?"
"that one with comes with the thinkpad"

Journeyman Geek

and there's some guy with a titanium hammer that some guy custom made for him

they still hit things.

@ThoriumBR I wouldn't knock the classic thinkpad keyboard

@MechMK1 I use a keyboard 8 hours a day

maybe more

I like nice tools :D

Anonymous

1:33 PM

Yeah, exactly the same :D

ThoriumBR

I love it... back in college I used to type without looking at the keyboard and manage to hit 90% of the keys...

Maarten Bodewes

Yeah, thinkpad keyboards are great. But I'm not sure that the newer thinkpads with the flat keys are all that. And I'm staring at one right as I'm writing this.

Journeyman Geek

@MaartenBodewes naw

biggest mistake they made IMO

ThoriumBR

@MaartenBodewes that's why I want to upgrade the processor and memory and storage and battery and cooling on my t430

maybe the screen too...

Maarten Bodewes

Great that keyboards, mice and screens get the attention that they really need. You can at least buy good ones without going broke today.

ThoriumBR

1:34 PM

so all that's left will be the carcass and the keyboard...

MechMK1

@JourneymanGeek You probably also spend that time in bed, and do you feel the same enthusiasm about mattresses?

nobody

Whoa, I thought keyboards were just... keyboards

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 if my back hurt, sure

nobody

Turns out that like everything else, there are keyboard enthusiasts

Anonymous

Keyboards are not just keyboards :D

nobody

1:35 PM

Reminds me of this

Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

Anonymous

Hahahahahahha, I love this one :D

Anonymous

One of my favourite xkcds.

MechMK1

It is 100% true

Journeyman Geek

@nobody You wouldn't say

I got my first mechanical keyboard when you had 2 choices

Anonymous

The first three boxes always remind me of conversations I have with people about scotch.

Journeyman Geek

1:37 PM

Order a model M from unicomp, or go find some boutique hipster thing like a ducky... (which is now mainstream)

Anonymous

Trying to explain to someone who pays 14 for a bottle of Bells why a 450 bottle of MaCallan is that price is an interesting experience

MechMK1

my life as a non star wars fan

►

Anonymous

Although MaCallan can be REALLY overpriced, actually.

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek Ducky! I remember when I had the Ducky 2 :(

Anonymous

Back when I was playing CS, I was one of the only people that I played with using Ducky back then.

Anonymous

1:39 PM

Now they're huge.

ThoriumBR

@JourneymanGeek I got 5 straight from IBM 12 years ago, still have mine

and I may still have some very old Xenon processors, still on the sealed box

Conor Mancone

Gosh, I used to think that I was a keyboard fanatic, but then I met you guys...

Anonymous

:D

ThoriumBR

I don't care much... I got a logitech mouse because my no-name mouse broke, and I use the defalt keyboard that came with the laptop...

Anonymous

The one thing with getting into keyboards is the amount of super cool keycaps that get released a year which are $100 a box...

Anonymous

1:42 PM

Whereas if you don't know about these you are not compelled to buy ALL of them :D

Anonymous

Like, you can have one keyboard for life.

Anonymous

But keycaps.. Thats a real addiction

Anonymous

SO many colours...

ThoriumBR

I like black keys...

I am not a "colors person"...

MechMK1

I'll just write /kfg/ whenever you start talking about keyboards :D

Anonymous

1:46 PM

Well, that's the thing Thorium, there are keys for non-colours people too!

Anonymous

A lot of cool monochrome sets out there.

Anonymous

And a lot of cool just black sets out here :D

Anonymous

Its a whole rabbit hole, believe me.

Anonymous

Like, tell me you dont want these: prototypist.net/collections/kam-superuser/products/…

Anonymous

If they don't sell extras I am going straight to mechmarket and paying $500 upwards for these damn keycaps

Anonymous

1:47 PM

i dont even care.

Anonymous

actual hackermans

ThoriumBR

those are... great!

MechMK1

Journeyman Geek

@J-- I got my old keyboard 2011ish I think

razer blackwidow, 1st gen (so old the backlight was blue, and it had cherries)

Anonymous

@ThoriumBR Yeah, they really are. I am very, very upset I missed them.

Conor Mancone

1:51 PM

Yeah, that one I don't get: isn't the whole point of a keyboard the fact that you never have to look at it?

Anonymous

@MechMK1 Short answer: because I'm a massive fucking nerd.

MechMK1

Good answer

Anonymous

@ConorMancone Hahaha, that's a fair comment...

Journeyman Geek

who here is not? (the leave link is on the top left... :D )

ThoriumBR

they are nice, but I don't think I would pay that much for them... for me, 40 pounds is more than I pay for utilities for the whole month

Anonymous

1:53 PM

I very rarely look at my keyboard when I am typing. Almost never.

nobody

@JourneymanGeek doesn't work for me

Anonymous

But when I am not typing? I always look at it :D

Conor Mancone

@JourneymanGeek lol!

Anonymous

@JourneymanGeek :D

Anonymous

@ThoriumBR Yeah that's fair enough. The 40 pound is just for that single keycap though, that's like an artisan keycap from the set.

Anonymous

1:54 PM

The actual set is... UH, two seconds.

Anonymous

#90.

Anonymous

Drat, I'm on US. Forgot.

Anonymous

90 pounds for the alphas + the rest of they keys you'd need like shift and stuff.

MechMK1

I don't even know what keyboard I have, or what switches it has

Some logitech keyboard

I like it though

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 could be membrane

(and that's fine, as long as you like it)

Anonymous

1:56 PM

Logitech actually make decent keyboards.

Anonymous

And as Journeyman said, if you like it, who cares.

Journeyman Geek

yup

Anonymous

Elitism is just cancerous in any form.

Anonymous

So if you like it /shrug

Journeyman Geek

@J-- and gatekeeping

Anonymous

1:57 PM

^

Journeyman Geek

also, someone in DHL probably stole the first keyboard they shipped :D

Anonymous

I just realised, if they do sell extras of this set I linked, it is going to cost me a fair bit to get the ones I want. So if I have to buy them from mechmarket this is gonna be absurd...

Anonymous

Drat.

Anonymous

OH well /shrug

Anonymous

only paper.

Anonymous

2:00 PM

and yeah ill never really understand elitism

Anonymous

or gatekeeping

Anonymous

its just weird.

ThoriumBR

90 pounds plus shipping would put the price on a month's wages down here...

Anonymous

caring about other peoples outcomes or decisions when they don't impact your outcomes or decisions is just bizarre...

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR and the absurd import taxen?

(I got a brazillian guy in the other group I'm in and he complains how expensive things are there a lot)

Anonymous

2:01 PM

Oh yeah, import tax...

Anonymous

That is always a bitch...

Anonymous

Most keyboard stuff comes from US or China, so even in UK the fees are a bitch.

Journeyman Geek

We don't have import taxes but we do have something like VAT for externally bought products of value more than 400 dollars :(

ThoriumBR

@JourneymanGeek I forgot the taxes! it would be a month and half wages!

Anonymous

I imagine they are worse in Brazil.

Journeyman Geek

2:02 PM

until next year, they want to remove that cause it 'helps smaller businesses' ... which is kinda wierd

ThoriumBR

taxes for importing is 60% of the price plus shipping

Anonymous

Jesus.

Anonymous

60%?

Anonymous

Fucking hell.

Journeyman Geek

@J-- yuuuup

ThoriumBR

2:03 PM

yep, to protect the non-existent tech industry here...

Anonymous

UK doesn't suck after all!

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR so... sega clones?

ThoriumBR

it's cheaper to take a flight to miami, buy one macbook there and fly home than to import here

@JourneymanGeek they weren't made here, just assembled here

Journeyman Geek

I've literally heard that

@ThoriumBR I mean its that and orkut (which google killed off... google is clearly a millenial)

ThoriumBR

someone learned that buying parts on Paraguay and using our "free trading zone on Amazon forest" would be a massive tax rebate...

Journeyman Geek

2:06 PM

@ThoriumBR I don't mind paying our local 7%

ThoriumBR

so companies would import components from Japan to Paraguay, import from Paraguay here with lower taxes (because Mercosul), and assemble them here, slapping a "Made in Brazil" sticker to it.

Journeyman Geek

its just dumb when I order stuff for a dollar or two

ThoriumBR

our local is like 15%

Journeyman Geek

I think they want to bump it up to 9

ThoriumBR

we have a wide array of taxes... if you buy anything from a factory, there's a tax. if it crosses the State border, another tax, if you import, you pay the import tax plus those two...

Anonymous

2:08 PM

Dumb question but if you have all of these taxes, fees, etc - where the fuck do they go?

Anonymous

I mean, of course to the government but uh, what does the government do with them?

ThoriumBR

@J-- to companies that work for the government and gets back to politicians later

you don't have idea of how wasteful our government is

they are required by law to submit all receipts to an internal expenses department, and "we the people" have some access to that...

I saw politicians spend 3 months' wages on a SINGLE dinner for himself... of course wasn't only him, but he got the receipt and we foot the bill...

or another deputy that spent half a million on office supplies on his last day on office, bought on the shop owned by his own brother

or the olympics installation that bought rainwater drain grills for R$900 each, and I can buy the same for R$ 5...

or plastic raincoats for the world cup for R$ 300 each, for Brasilia, in July. we didn't knew if we were more amazed by the outrageous price of the raincoats, or by the fact that almost never rains on July in Brasilia

in 65 years of the city, we had like 3-4 days of very light rain here in July

Anonymous

Wow...

Anonymous

That's just bonkers.

ThoriumBR

and the government spent more on condensed milk last year than in masks...

MechMK1

2:25 PM

The joys of corruption

And yet, when I criticize representative democracy, people start shilling for it non-stop, as if it was infallible

Wtf

When I blow into my phone's charging port, my screen pops out

ThoriumBR

hahaha... time for a new phone

Conor Mancone

3:06 PM

@MechMK1 The trouble is that they all involve people, and that is always the wink link. I would argue that the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship, but that suggestion tends not to go over well :) After that I would go with a constitutional republic

(which, theoretically, is the USA, but I think that ship sailed a while ago)

ThoriumBR

I used to think AI could be a good alternative, then I was working with AI (real world AI) and AI bias entered my lexicon... now I disapprove AI-based government with all my heart.

I believe it was from Churchill: "democracy is a terrible government method, but it's better than all the other already tried"

likely misquoted and mis-attributed

I believe having politicians more accountable and punishable would help, but don't count on lawmakers creating laws against themselves...

Conor Mancone

3:24 PM

@ThoriumBR Yeah, the problem there is that there is no such thing as AI, and even if there was, there is no reason to believe it would do a better job then we do

@ThoriumBR Indeed.

MechMK1

7:49 PM

@ConorMancone Trust me, I'm with you on that

If I get to choose between a competent dictator and a corrupt president, I know which one I'll pick

reed

you can always check if a politician is corrupt by using checksums

MechMK1

@reed I keep getting checksum errors, what should I do?

reed

I don't know, sometimes you might need to format the parliament

MechMK1

Message received, executing plan "Format C:"

reed

I'm about to ask a question here on SE, but I'd be amazed if it hadn't been asked before. How to print "safely", basically, or what you should do if you need to print sensitive information and you don't want to leave any traces on the printer (internal caches, etc.)

MechMK1

7:59 PM

Depends on what you mean by "safely"

As in, anyone with physical access to the printer after you printed cannot recover the contents anymore?

reed

yeah, I guess

MechMK1

If I were you, ask a question and include a detailled threat model

Any question labelled "Is x safe?" benefits from a threat model

reed

suppose I want to print some secret codes, and store the piece of paper somewhere safe then (like a locker, etc.). That's what people sometimes do with recovery codes for second factors, right? Or print a secret plan, or whatever. So I print it, put the sheet somewhere safe, but the printer won't be in a safe place

MechMK1

It's enough to say you print "something confidential"

Stuff like who has access to the printer, what kind of access, etc. is more important

ThoriumBR

@MechMK1 build your own printer...

MechMK1

8:05 PM

How skilled do you expect the attacker to be? A nosey co-worker with some tech knowledge? A sysadmin with extensive knowledge? Some gov't agency?

ThoriumBR

or get a dumb printer

reed

someone stupid (like me) might think "hey, if there's some memory in there, it's probably a few MB at most, so if I printed some more documents after the sensitive info, then I'd probably overwrite it". But of course I'm not sure it would work that way

MechMK1

7

Q: What exactly are the files . and .. on mac?

Anecdotally, files called . and .. seem to often (always?) be present inside otherwise 'empty' directories on macOS. Example Create a new directory (with nothing in it) mkdir test cd into it cd test and list its contents ls -a . .. What exactly are these files . and ..?

The gift that keeps on giving

reed

@MechMK1 seven upvotes for that? Whoa

ThoriumBR

@MechMK1 a corrupt president term ends, unlike the dictator's... and a dictator may turn corrupt later...

MechMK1

8:09 PM

@ThoriumBR See? We're fucked either way

Better to have a corrupt president replaced by another, even more corrupt one

ThoriumBR

the point is that even a corrupt president is kinda bound by some restraints... but a dictator have nothing restraining him

better to buy an oil platform, anchor it on international waters, and declare independence

MechMK1

You're fucked either way

If you don't have military power, your independence means nothing

Peace can only be achieved through military deterrence.

reed

presidents should not have admin accounts

a dictator is a president with unrestricted sudo capabilities

I wonder if I'll ever stop typing bullshit

MechMK1

A president claims to have "restricted" sudo capabilities, but with options to edit the sudoers file as he desires.

ThoriumBR

@MechMK1 hack everyone, steal all dirty secret you can find, threaten to release them if harmed

@MechMK1 like Putin

nobody

8:22 PM

@MechMK1 weird that you haven’t noticed yet. All the compilers were infected a long time ago so you will always get a checksum error even when you format and rebuild everything. You know like in “reflections on trusting trust”.

ThoriumBR

that is a classic...

reed

in the past, dictators didn't have security cameras to control people. That's a difference I think we should keep in mind

ThoriumBR

and we didn't walked around with gps trackers all the time

reed

8:43 PM

we're the cool regulators smoking cigaro cigaro cigaro (System of a Down)

Question: do online password managers have any way to prevent an infected device from stealing all the passwords? Example: you use Lastpass and your PC gets infected. If Lastpass lets you access any password (or even download a backup of all the passwords), the first time you authenticate to retrieve one password the malware might take advantage of that and get any other password (or all of them)

it would seem the only way to prevent that would be by implementing some kind of second factor that must not be connected to your PC (like a smartphone) every time you need to request an action to Lastpass

but I've never used an online password manager anyway

Conor Mancone

10:32 PM

@MechMK1 With the best followup comment ever!

That makes complete sense now, given commands like cd ../ and ./script.sh. Thank you for joining the... dots — stevec 17 hours ago

ThoriumBR

@reed I use enpass.io... it saves the encrypted database on the cloud (gdrive, dropbox, onedrive) so malware would need your master key anyway

Fire Quacker

10:45 PM

@MechMK1 Are you sure that's not a troll post? The user has 2k rep and 13k rep on Stack Overflow. If somebody can get that far without understanding . and .., I find that... troubling.

Or maybe I put too much stock in rep

Conor Mancone

11:01 PM

@reed Keeping malware from stealing your data can be nearly impossible, in general. The problem is that you need access to your data, and malware runs as you and inject itself into your processes.

ThoriumBR

@FireQuacker he is a developer... developers are known for sometimes not knowing the obvious basics

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