The DMZ - 2011-09-21 (page 1 of 3)

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4:58 AM

gmorning you sick bastards

@thisjosh I agree, thats a solid q. 'course it should be phrased more like "what should be covered by ..."

@thisjosh true, but: (a) sniffable even over wires, if those wires include public networks (like the innernets), and (b) if you were able to grab one email, there is a decent chance the second email is over the same channel, and you'll be able to grab that one too.

@Ninefingers also, you hang out in the teacher's lounge? I've learned a TON there.

@ScottPack well, it took me months to even discover that mods are blue.... :$

5:42 AM

Chin-Up Bar

2 hours later…

7:18 AM

@AviD yep I do, I try to follow what's going on as much as I can and see how experienced mods handle different situations

7:47 AM

@AviD its quite ironic that when chat came out I was very anti-chat. I detest IRC almost more than I detest slashdot. So I avoided SO chatrooms. Now I've branched out from SO into the wider SE network I think chat's great.

3 hours later…

10:18 AM

mornin'

1 hour later…

11:32 AM

G'day me hearty

It be a day adrift from TLAP day now

11:59 AM

If I'd thought about it, it would have been funny to provide a pirate version of StackExchange via the translator project I started on MSO...

@Ninefingers ahhh - yes. I was amused when Facebook first implemented pirate as a language

12:20 PM

And google.

@ScottPack don't remember that one

@Scott - your package is on its way on a <5 day delivery schedule

Wow, your warehouse manager does good work.

I assume he earned his allowance this week?

google.com/webhp

For the full list

google.com/language_tools

1:19 PM

Soooo..... I went to an ISACA Boston meeting 2 hours + 45 minutes of traffic away.... and there are five of us including the speaker; one other audience member is a coworker.

hey there all you sec.se people

@JeffFerland oo what a bummer

@Ninefingers I used to try and keep up, but there is so much traffic there (and, most of it irrelevant). Though it's a great source of info, and checking in during the chatcasts help me stay up to date.

@Ninefingers ironic? I dont think so.

but I also hated chatrooms in all its forms, and took me long to jump in, but yes, I too think its great.

Oh my! I got Human verification dialog for this answer?? security.stackexchange.com/questions/7368/…

They are looking at words repetitions, or what?

seem to remember a post sometime back about that.

there is some fuzzy logic there, it looks at a combination of your rep, ip (compared to previous), some posting patterns, etc....

@thisjosh are you hittin' on me? Wow. Your clients are very lucky. – this.josh ;-)

@RoryAlsop are you hitting on @ScottPack??

1:45 PM

Hey @AviD: can you make the reputation menu pop up on security?

Seems not to work on SO, Security and other except for MSO for me

@Mvy Are you talking about the pop-up when you hover over your name in the top bar?

@ScottPack I am

Works for me.

Like Hooked on Phonics.

hm

1:53 PM

@StackExchange Haha. I swear, that's going to be my answer from now on when someone asks me why I'm doing (or not doing) something: "How should I know? I'm not a psychologist!".

Ok ... why do you keep breaking stuff on Opéra!

@Mvy How should I know? I'm not a psychologist!

Ok @Iszi ... I'm beginning calling you the magic 8-ball of stacks.

@Mvy ?

@Mvy Why, 'cause I occasionally just come in and spout random stuff that poops into my head?

because of the pshycologist things

^^

2:07 PM

Well, this is interesting. How to get around organizational controls and fix your own computer problems... by hacking yourself. blogs.computerworld.com/18958/…

2:17 PM

@Mvy me too.

feels less alone

@Iszi yes, I loved that too. Also, I love hatguy's nasty pranks.

@Mvy no, I meant "me too" to @ScottPack - "works for me". You actually are all alone ;)

oh

feels more alone

@Mvy try hitting refresh....?

I also cleared the cache

ok working again

restart is win move

2:26 PM

-2

Q: How can I know that I can play with an online game in an internet cafe?

How do I know that I can play on battle.net with ex.: Diablo 2 LoD? Are the password sent in plaintext?

@RoryAlsop - I think what he's asking is if there's a way that he can tell whether an application (such as an online game) handles his credentials securely enough to be trusted on inherently insecure local networks like Internet Cafes. The question could probably use some fleshing out, but I think it's quite possibly a valid one here.

@Iszi Well, what he really needs to do is run Wireshark and review the authentication... and I just don't want to do that dept of work for him.

it's too narrow.

@JeffFerland You don't need to. The question is essentially "How can I know if this is secure?" as opposed to "Is this secure?". So, responding with "run Wireshark and review the authentication" is pretty much sufficient.

ctrl+shift+r fixes most of life's problems.

If you drop (or slightly modify) the second half of that question to be more in line with the first half and the subject line, it's not narrow at all.

Come to think of it, overhauling that question wouldn't be much work at all. I'm gonna take a crack at it.

Okay, how about this?

-2

Q: How could one determine if an application handles transmission of their credentials securely?

I'd like to play Diablo 2 LoD while I'm at an Internet cafe, but I'm worried about someone sniffing my network traffic and capturing my battle.net credentials. How can I tell if the password is being sent securely, or in cleartext?

2:42 PM

@Iszi its definitely an improvement, but its still reads as if its a gaming.se question - even though I know what he means.

I would suggest putting the d2/battle.net bits as an example, for any client/server with proprietary protocol.

or, even non-proprietary... though HTTP is substantially simpler

Edited too

I generalised the context to application

curious what happens if two users edit a q simultaneously?

with the gaming application being an example

@Mvy - I think that's a bit too much of a departure. The OP didn't say anything about using a public computer. Public network yes, but I presume the computer is his own.

Humm... good question @AviD

2:45 PM

And it's really not the network he wants to trust, it's the application.

hmm.... I've never used one, but wouldnt the ToS for internet cafe forbid it anyway....?

@Iszi I don't usually bring my laptop to e-Café but... why not.

@Iszi isnt "internet cafe" mean "a public computer"...?

And indeed the question should be axed on the network part not the comp

@Iszi well, he wants to know if the app could is trustworthy enough, to use on an untrusted network/computer....

2:47 PM

@AviD I've not used an internet cafe myself, but I imagine they allow you to use your own computer as well as theirs. And the ToS should really forbid user-installed programs on cafe-owned machines.

@Iszi and network usage?

not usually limited to browing/email/IM and such?

And now?

Probably not. I mean, if they don't restrict it at your local Starbucks why should they at an Internet cafe?

@Mvy I re-wrote the title again, to be more in line with the specific goal of the question. But, your body edit is good.

arf... need 3k to cast reopen vote :P

woof

2:53 PM

@Mvy No, we just need @AviD to help us out with his diamond-plated bolt cutters.

hehe

somebody wring my bastardbell?

hang on, where be that linkie thingie...

Hey, @AviD, care to do me a favor?

ah, rereading...

@ScottPack Take a number. :-P

2:55 PM

Hey look, I drew a '1' :)

@ScottPack Wait in line. I have '0'.

@Iszi boom, diamond bolted.

@AviD Thanks

though the first line is a bit of a tongue twister

overall, excellent edit(s), guy(s)! definitely became a good question now.

Why the hell can we only @notify one user (plus the OP) in comments now?

2:57 PM

@ScottPack wots your nmber?

@AviD Can you let me know which question this is?

security.stackexchange.com/q/7149

@Iszi been for a while now... I think they're encouraging you to move to chat, if you need to discuss with multiple users.

Apparently, I answered it, but since it's deleted I can't see it anymore. I'm a bit cuious :)

@ScottPack no

:(

2:58 PM

@AviD facepalm

404

@Iszi hey, dont /blame me, I'm just telling you what it looks like.

@Iszi they change the @lert thingy a while ago

So it's not a deleted question, it's just a bad link?

@Mvy I know. Still sucks.

@ScottPack it could be a removed question. happens...

3:00 PM

So like the devs actually yoinked it out of the database?

It's not that one that we spam-flag nuked yesterday, is it?

possible.

I really dont know, since I dont have any information on it whatsoever.

other than the fact that we can't see it....

What can't we see?

I'm getting this from the Election Stats snapshot that (I think) Hendrick posted.

Just struck me as an oddity.

I'm allowing for the fact that he could have screwed up.

Hendrik Brummermann

@ScottPack That is your nomination.

3:02 PM

BTW the banner is gone again?

@Mvy Yes, it is.

@HendrikBrummermann Seriously? That's busted.

Hendrik Brummermann

It might be a tag wiki edit, too.

I do see that the IDs match up now, though. Thanks.

that IS messed up. This is his nomination:

security.stackexchange.com/election/1#post-7149

@ScottPack where did he post?

Hendrik Brummermann

3:04 PM

Rory pointed me to that when I asked the same question a couple of days ago.

Incidentally, just so you know @Hendrik, I typically allow for everyone to screw up when data looks wonky :)

I was not necessarily besmirching you.

Hendrik Brummermann

@ScottPack me wants an edit feature for chat messages

One of these days, we've really gotta arrange an in-person meet-up for all the Sec.SE chat regulars. Too bad we're so globally dispersed.

You can edit your own messages for a couple of minutes, and mods can edit all messages.

@HendrikBrummermann There is, but it has an expiration time.

3:06 PM

@HendrikBrummermann there is one...

Just like comments.

I think the timeout is 3 minutes.

@Iszi yeah :P

@HendrikBrummermann okay, but where is this post everyone is talking about?

I would have fixed the spelling, once I noticed it, if I had not already exceeded the time out :)

Hendrik Brummermann

3:07 PM

@ScottPack okay ;-)

@AviD I will create a new one, the old one does not include you.

@HendrikBrummermann and @Mvy.... cheers

but what ARE y'all talkin' bout??

Hendrik Brummermann

4

Q: Information on the moderator candidates

Yi Jiang has put together a nice site that use the Stack Overflow API to display information on the moderator candidates. Click here to see all the information. The information presented is: The nominees election Answers/Questions on the main site and it's meta Up-vote/down-vote ratio Average...

discussion election

@HendrikBrummermann ahhh, of course.... thanks!

Oh, well this is interesting. Now I'm really hyped about Windows 8! </sarcasm>

user image

2

This shall really look like this?

Hendrik Brummermann

3:19 PM

pastehtml.com/view/b818tj0c8.html

@Iszi lol

actually, merging the interface between desktop and mobile is not a terrible idea. and, let it be noted that I prefer the interface of wp7 than ios/andriod (though I have yet to play with it sufficiently to base this on my own data).

@HendrikBrummermann :)

@HendrikBrummermann it seems that of all the nominees, you have the highest per-post rep.

and I have 2nd lowest.... :(

thank cthulhu for @RoryAlsop :D

@AviD So what are you saying? That @Rory is a great old one?

@AviD That would be 3rd, dear.

@ScottPack hmm?

I don't know what numbering system you use in your neck of the woods, but 'round these here parts 45 and 42 are both lower than 49.

ahh right, I missed one.

surprising!

@ScottPack hehe - on a scale of 1 to 10, what are the odds that I'm using binary?

3:32 PM

Unless you're reading right to left, in which case you have the highest.

94 woooot!

surprising that we dont have a tag for race-condition yet.

My brain hurts

checking for intf_open in -ldnet... no
LDFLAGS set to -L/usr/lib -ldnet
CFLAGS set to -g -O2 -g -O0 -Wall -I/usr/include

ERROR! Libdnet library/headers not found, go get it from
http://libdnet.sourceforge.net
xxxxxx:> locate dnet.h
/usr/include/dnet.h

3:43 PM

@Iszi Hey - yes, the user who spammed his first 3 posts with that almost malware spam. After checking with SEI folks we hit him with a 'Destroy'

So you Burninated a user?

@ScottPack very much so, yes

:-)

Eggselent!

@RoryAlsop good on you!

had a quick look at all 3 of his posts, checked in 'Teachers' and gubbed them

3:47 PM

Which went pretty fast, as I recall.

I got a chance to flag one of them, but his user was already gone before I could go look at the rest

"gubbed"? thats a new one,

@ScottPack yes, our fearless leader is in campaign mode ;)

@AviD Imperious Leader. Please.

Hello everybody

@ScottPack heh. well, being imperious, one would assume the fearlessness, no?

@ThomasPornin do we need to sacrifice a random prime number every time, now....?

Is registration compulsory to drop in the upcoming "Town Hall chat" ?

3:49 PM

@ThomasPornin doubt it.

@ThomasPornin dunno, maybe I should go register:-)

but if you do, you get all those great popup reminders

sacrifices 98764321 to @ThomasPornin

@AviD Maybe he meant "gibbed"?

And yep, there's a Wiki for that...

Gib (video gaming)

Gibs, short for giblets, is a humorous term referring to the variably-sized body parts ("guts"), fragments, and offal produced when non-player characters or game players are damaged or killed in computer games. Adrian Carmack has been credited for coining the term "gibs". To "gib" one's opponents (pronounced either or ) is to hit them with such force (often with explosives) that they rupture. Use in games Gibs feature prominently in many shooter games where gameplay generally focuses on killing large numbers of enemies. One of the first games in which gibs appeared was Smash TV (1990...

:)

"gubbed" - old scottish word:-) Probably Glaswegian

very similar meaning:-)

3:58 PM

@RoryAlsop just guessing, "Glaswegian" means "from Glasgow"?

aye

because that makes sense.

just thankful it doesnt mean "from edinburgh"....

or as we call them 'Weegies'

Edinburghers

I guess it just depends on your pronounciation.

are known as something less complimentary

3:59 PM

That doesn't really roll off the tongue very well.

It does sound yummy, though.

@RoryAlsop Assholes?

@ScottPack ah, cuz you're trying to read it.

british names have nothing to do with the way they're spelt.

that's what British English is all about

confuse the invader

:-)

So, do the Brits also pronounce Worchester as 'Wooster'?

@RoryAlsop who's invading?? I was just trying to get to my flippin' client!

Worcester is wooster, yes

4:02 PM

You people.

@AviD Vikings, Angles, Saxons, everyone

but Colchester is pronounced Colchester

:-)

@RoryAlsop consultants?

@RoryAlsop just to mix things up, eh?

Although, we have a suburb named "Chauncey" interestingly pronounced "Chancey"

like the famed magic roundabout of southern England.

Wow. Usage of the term "fragging" actually pre-dates the video game adaptation?

In the U.S. military, fragging refers to the act of attacking a superior officer in one's chain of command with the intent to kill that officer. The term originated during the Vietnam War and was most commonly used to mean the assassination of an unpopular officer of one's own fighting unit. Killing was effected by means of a fragmentation grenade, hence the term. The most common motive for choosing a fragmentation grenade or similar device is a perpetrator's desire to avoid identification and the associated consequences at either the individual level (e.g., punishment by one's superiors...

4:03 PM

@Iszi huh!

@Iszi cool

I need to cut off my Wiki for today.

@Iszi very specific form of kill...

@Iszi reached Philosophy yet?

you've just been reading it ever since your gib comment, haven't you

It's also the traditional form of promotion in the Klingon military.

4:04 PM

@AviD Only a few clicks away, I'm sure.

@Iszi forwarded to my lanparty group... :)

@ScottPack excellent

@RoryAlsop Indeed.

Find me the shortest path from 'Tacoma Narrows Bridge' to 'Wet Tshirt Contest'

Oh, thanks to whomever got me that "Outspoken" badge!

4:06 PM

When you find it, let me know and I'll check your work.

@ScottPack No, the path should always be to Philosophy. Like the Kevin Bacon game.

@Iszi no no, wet tshirt contests always rule!

besides, we all know philosophy is just a tool to talk babes into the wet tshirt contest, anyway.

2

I wonder if anyone's thought to make an Oracle of Wikipedia, like the Oracle of Bacon site?

@AviD ...and we're back to boobs.

@Iszi waddaya want from me, you were talking about philosophy!

@Iszi People play with article linking all the time on Wikipedia / the toolserver (being able to SQL query the live database is awesome)

4:12 PM

reminded myself of the joke about the guy with the inkblots... the psychytrist sums it up by saying, "you seem to have a sex addiction", and the guy says "ME?? You were the one showing me dirty pictures the whole time!"

Oh, for those unfamiliar... oracleofbacon.org

You'd be surprised how very short the link is between some actors and Kevin Bacon.

dang, unbelievable.

almost everyone I come up with, its 2. I was able to find a 3...

I want an Erdos-Bacon number!

and infinity, of course.

@JeffFerland Someone's back on Wiki.

4:23 PM

@RoryAlsop are you gonna doublebag the chat meetings tonite?

seems we're double booked.

@Iszi <3 the wiki... so if you did make an Oracle of Wikipedia, what article would be the center?

@JeffFerland philosophy, of course.

or, wet tshirt contests.

@JeffFerland What @AviD said, duh.

Although, strictly speaking, Kevin Bacon isn't even the center of the Oracle of Bacon. He's like the 444th-best center. The best being Dennis Hopper.

@Iszi well, that guy has been in every thing.

he's like stan lee - even if he's not even in the darn movie, you'll find him floating somewhere in the background.

like waldo. but without the cool sweater.

Graph problems... ugh...

4:34 PM

@Iszi There is. I have it on my screen at the office.

@ScottPack Oh, do share!

@AviD Ah the mods + the sec.se one?

Sync hasn't happened since I opened it. I'll let you know after lunch.

was going to just do the sec.se one, I think

@RoryAlsop ayup.

might be the last teachers' meet I'm invited to ;)

4:40 PM

@RoryAlsop Better than doing her ugly friend, I guess. ;-)

@Iszi aaaaaaand you're back to boobs. Again.

@AviD No, I insist that you started the subject on this day.

@Iszi me?? YOU're the one with all the dirty inkblots!

@AviD Heh. Reminds me of a military-related anecdote I'd heard once about a group being punished for having "dirty magazines".

?

4:44 PM

@AviD We're talking about ammunition clips, here. Get your mind out of the gutter.

@Iszi ahahaha

though THAT reminds me of a tool I saw during my stint at MS, that scans all source code before release, looking for (amongst other things) "dirty words" in code or comments.
Some of the things that it caught as "dirty", well... I'll just say that I really wanna party with whoever was in charge of making that list!

@AviD That reminds me of a time when I had difficulty registering a Star Wars themed username with some websites. Seriously, who would think to realize that ObiWanKenobi has a nasty word in it?

Testing Italics

Testing Bold

Okay, seriously... WTF?

@Iszi heh. I hear tell that @Thomas the Crypto Engine has had similar difficulties...

Is there a current trend for emphasizing parts of sentences with bold text? I really want to express how much this trend is beginning to irritate me. I have just received an email asking me about a job opportunity and every other sentence is in bold and AARRRRGGGHHHH.

it is the second such email I have received this week.

@Ninefingers Okay, why is it that you can do that, but I can't?

Or maybe it's just when I try to do characters with**in** words?

4:56 PM

@Ninefingers I regard it as a sign of being a tool who thinks that his words have some sort of extra meaning across the entire sentence.

@Iszi you can according to me.

:$... I have occasionally used it, albeit sparingly, to bring focus on specific words within a large body of text.

@Iszi yes that is correct.

@AviD Yeah, what's up with that?

@AviD I think readability dictates bolding text no more than once per sentence.

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