EL&U 2014 Election

Seth

12:00 AM

Would you mind providing a link to Shog's post? I'm not sure which one you are referencing :)

medica

sure, just a minute.

The site is currently closed.

It will go ELU wide is a few minutes, I expect.

So there's no linking to meta,

Seth

You can still read things, and link to them :)

medica

and answers will soon be disallowed as well.

Not if I can't get into meta. Right now, I can't get into meta. But if you can, the post is titled "Can't something de done about childish flagging" or something to that effect.

Seth

This one?

15

A: Do something about puerile chat flagging

suspension is a very harsh thing that should usually be left to a mod It's a half-hour suspension per flagged post. And it takes at least 6 people or a moderator to make that happen, per flagged post. And that's assuming that other high-rep users or moderators don't decline the flags first. ...

medica

Yep!

Look at all the up votes against the commentor's position in comments. Yet this is not new. It is difficult to implement change.

Seth

12:18 AM

I don't really see any support for the OP's position, other than the fact that the flagging system could use some improvements, which is true.

medica

As I stated, it's true there's a lot of evidence that people agree with shog9 and not the OP. But he does have strong supporters.

This situation is not new in chat.

Yet it's difficult to implement change.

For a variety of reasons, many of which are out of the average user's hands.

@Seth I mean, a user went to chat and found what he did, He flagged. This avalanche comes down on him in meta. Who wants that?

hichris123

@medica He didn't flag though. Other people flagged.

medica

someone flagged, I don't know who.

But one of the commenters was in chat that day, as was I. He defended his faith, and was answered with ridicule.

hichris123

oh.

medica

Whoever flagged, if they were known to the OP, they would get a ton of crap.

Theodore Broda

12:25 AM

I have a minor criticism about chat, and I want to know what the candidates/moderators think.

In the chat FAQ, in the section "What can we chat about?", it states "...each room has a defined topic. When talking in a room, it's polite to stay roughly on topic for the room, as defined by the room owners." At first, this seems like a good basis for judging what a room conversation should be about. However, the EL&U chatroom has this for its "topic": "I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay." Shouldn't the topic actually state a topic?

2

medica

ok.

@TheodoreBroda you will find that religion doesn't go over in chat wery well. It would be nice if this wasn't chat's byline, but it isn't directly mocking religion. for that reason, I actually don't mind it.

@TheodoreBroda What do you think, and would you like me to ping the other mod candidates with your question? I'd be happy to do so, and the answers might be interesting.

Theodore Broda

It's not that I find the topic offensive, it's that I find it an inaccurate description of what the chatroom is about. I think that this affects chat flagging as well. If the FAQ bases the appropriateness of a chat comment on the topic, and the "topic" is inaccurate, how can one determine if the chat is inappropriate for a room?

@medica I'll leave it to your discretion. If you thing the other candidates would find this question worthy of discussion, then I would like you to ping them.

medica

@TheodoreBroda The motto of chat changes whenever someone says something really funny to it's users.

I think, since we've been discussing chat, this is a good question.

@MrHen: "In the chat FAQ, in the section "What can we chat about?", it states "...each room has a defined topic. When talking in a room, it's polite to stay roughly on topic for the room, as defined by the room owners." At first, this seems like a good basis for judging what a room conversation should be about.

However, the EL&U chatroom has this for its "topic": "I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay." Shouldn't the topic actually state a topic?"

@Mahnax: A user asks: "In the chat FAQ, in the section "What can we chat about?", it states "...each room has a defined topic. When talking in a room, it's polite to stay roughly on topic for the room, as defined by the room owners." At first, this seems like a good basis for judging what a room conversation should be about.

"However, the EL&U chatroom has this for its "topic": "I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay." Shouldn't the topic actually state a topic?"

@MattЭллен: A user asks: "In the chat FAQ, in the section "What can we chat about?", it states "...each room has a defined topic. When talking in a room, it's polite to stay roughly on topic for the room, as defined by the room owners." At first, this seems like a good basis for judging what a room conversation should be about.

"However, the EL&U chatroom has this for its "topic": "I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay." Shouldn't the topic actually state a topic?"

Shog9

...you can ping multiple people in one message; you don't need to re-post it

medica

@phenry, @YoichiOishi, @Fractured Retina,: A user asks: "In the chat FAQ, in the section "What can we chat about?", it states "...each room has a defined topic. When talking in a room, it's polite to stay roughly on topic for the room, as defined by the room owners." At first, this seems like a good basis for judging what a room conversation should be about.

"However, the EL&U chatroom has this for its "topic": "I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay." Shouldn't the topic actually state a topic?"

@Shog9 ok, just repart @... @...?

Shog9

12:36 AM

yeah

Theodore Broda

Thanks, @medica.

medica

@TheodoreBroda My pleasure.

Theodore Broda

I also disapprove of inside jokes like "pineapple", as was discussed earlier. Chat can be confusing to new users (I know it was to me), and I think that using such jokes can alienate new chat users.

medica

@shog9, can I ask you to add Manhax and oerkelens to the owners of this room?

Shog9

@medica they are already

phenry

12:40 AM

@medica - oh, I don't know. It ridicules religion and non-native speakers in a single sentence. Seems to me it's the perfect summary of the ELU chat room.

medica

@TheodoreBroda why don't you flag those comments in chat? That's what flags are for. And Mods.

@Shog9 when I try to @o, nothing happens

Shog9

@medica been too long since he was in here then

medica

I see Manhax is OK

phenry

...seriously, what the hell is the deal with that message? Did someone think it was funny? Why has it been there for so long? Hasn't it occurred to anyone before now that it ought to be changed?

medica

oh

@phenry it's been up for maybe a couple of weeks. Of course they think it's funny. And it is funny. It speaks more to how drunk the commenter was than to the invalidity of religion.

phenry

12:43 AM

So yes, if I'm a moderator, I'd get that changed tout de suite.

medica

Anyway, things like that should be flagged by people who find it offensive.

phenry

But I'd also want to know who did it so I could tell them it ain't okay.

medica

@phenry (oh, I'm so sorry. I interrupted your answer to someone else.)

phenry

@medica - and this is something we want to broadcast to the world for two weeks? How we get drunk and say stupid things?

medica

@phenry - you need to address your answer to @TheodoreBroda, I guess. I'm sorry I screwed that up.

phenry

12:46 AM

@TheodoreBroda, come see this thingy here, if you haven't already. Ping ping.

Theodore Broda

@phenry Don't worry; I recognized that your answer was addressed to my question.

phenry

cool.

You're absolutely right. Even apart from being stupid and borderline offensive, it doesn't address the topic and displays contempt for users of the chat system.

medica

@Mahnax, @MrHen, @MattЭллен, @YoichiOishi, @oerkelens, @FracturedRetina, the above question was asked bu Theodore Broda. Please ping him in your answer so he will see your response.

Theodore Broda

@phenry Thanks. I'm glad that at least a few candidates see why I have objections here.

Anyways, expanding on my old point, I think that there should be a guide for each room (not just the very general FAQ) that explains to new users what topics are commonly discussed, which topics are appropriate for discussion, and whether new users are welcome to just join in on the conversation. I think just pulling up chat right away without a "welcome screen" and showing the "crazy" (to say the least) conversations that occur can be disconcerting for new users.

medica

@AndrewLeach: TheodoreBroda asked a question (above) about chat's current topic/motto. Can you please ping him when you answer, so that he will see your response? Thanks.

hichris123

12:51 AM

21

Q: One page wikis to store all the chat room's nuggets and references

Chat rooms should have some kind of page that captures all the essence and go-to questions that can often come up, but aren't easily searched. A reference point. A one page wiki. The page should be editable only by the room owners, but visible to all that have normal viewing access. This would...

medica

hooray! Thank you!

phenry

@medica - well, that sounds like a practice that's due for reexamination.

hichris123

Oh, looks like it's a play off of this:

in English Language & Usage, Apr 29 at 11:51, by RegDwigнt

0

Q: More Drunk or Drunker?

I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay. Now I am (more drunk/drunker)?

grammar

medica

@hichris123 May I ask how you found that?

Theodore Broda

@hichris123 Yes! This is precisely the feature that I was attempting to explain, but written much more eloquently. I think such a feature will benefit both new and old users of chat.

hichris123

12:55 AM

@medica Randomly looking at the transcript (actually, searching for room topic changed, and then reading the transcript around there).

medica

@hichris123 I am not savvy enough to know these somewhat basic skills. I really need to become more adept, which is why I asked. Thank you.

hichris123

@medica Nah, it's something I stumbled upon by accident. I was bored, so...

not a basic skill though. ;)

medica

@hichris123 Interestingly, that question is POB. If he is that drunk, the answer is More drunk. If it's grammar, it's drunker. ;) j/k

@hichris123 To me, who knows so little about computers, I cannot differentiate basic from advanced skill. I tend to think everyone knows how to do thinks I can't.

I hope to remedy this quickly.

phenry

@hichris123 - So it is making fun of a non-native speaker. And it was a moderator who brought it in. And it's been two months. Awesome.

hichris123

@phenry Apparently.

Any suggestions?

medica

1:02 AM

It's not a very good thing for chat to do, is it?

phenry

@hichris123 - well, I think the practice of using "funny" but inscrutable room taglines needs to be discontinued. If I am elected moderator, it's certainly something I intend to bring up. I hope the other candidates feel the same way.

Theodore Broda

@phenry Thank you for taking my concern seriously.

phenry

@TheodoreBroda - Thank you for bringing it up.

tchrist

@phenry You can always create your own room and have your way with its scrutability. You seem to forget the @RegDwigнt himself is not a native speaker either. His room titles are always funny; would you therefore see amusements outlawed?

medica

See?

Damned if you care, damned if you don't.

Theodore Broda

1:10 AM

@tchrist If the amusement of a select few comes at the expense of causing bafflement for new chat users visiting the "flagship" chat for EL&U, then yes.

medica

@tchrist In case you're unaware, a chat user asked this question.

tchrist

@medica You just summed up all of life in so brief a statement I am tempted to call you eloquent.

medica

i am honored.

tchrist

@medica Was not.

medica

@tchrist Yes, it was. It was brought up by someone who has been using chat for at least a couple of weeks now.

Theodore Broda

1:15 AM

@tchrist I also don't like the term "own room". The rooms are public, and new users naturally want to visit a popular room on their preferred topic when they first visit chat. If all the major rooms (especially one called EL&U, which new users will logically assume is the primary chatroom for EL&U users) seem exclusive, it will discourage new users from using this valuable feature. I think I have a valid concern, and "so RegDwigнt can be amused" does not seem like a satisfactory answer.

phenry

Most of the flagship chat rooms have taglines that at least have something to do with the subject matter of the parent site, although some are a little esoteric. Ours is the only one I see that doesn't. I just think that puts out a "stay away from here, ye uninitiated" vibe. Maybe that's the point. If it is, it shouldn't be.

hichris123

Yeah, at least add something about the site.

Funny taglines are okay, but... tell people what to talk about, too.

Theodore Broda

@tchrist And when the Chat FAQ defines that the "room topic" field should accurately describe what the room topic is (logically), I think @RegDwigнt should follow these rules, even if it is "his room" to do with what he pleases. His choices affect the quality of chat for other users, especially new ones.

@phenry That is exactly the vibe I got when I first used chat. Fortunately, @JasperLoy was courteous enough to extend a greeting and explain some of the "customs" of the chat room, but not all new users receive that same introduction, although they should.

I am not trying to upset the long-established norms of the EL&U chatroom (or any chatroom), but I think there can be some easy improvements that make the experience for new users significantly better without adversely affecting old users.

tchrist

 1. English Language and Usage: General discussion for English Language and Usage
 2. English Language and Usage: General discussion for English Language and Usage
 3. English Language and Usage: General discussion about God
 4. English Language and Usage: General discussion about God. По-русски.
 5. English Language and Usage: General discussion about English Language and Usage
 6. English Language and Usage: In this room, language learns you!
 7. English Language and Usage: aka The Incomprehensible Room

There are only three duplicates:

English Language & Usage: aka The Incomпrehensible Room
English Language and Usage: aka The Incomprehensible Room
English Language and Usage: General discussion for English Language and Usage

Theodore Broda

I have to go for now, but I will check back in periodically for candidates' answers to my question. Thank you @phenry and @medica for your prompt responses and help with my humble query.

tchrist

1:29 AM

I am rather unhappy to see this election turn into some sort of “vote of confidence” for the current set of active moderators, and to try to zing Reg on his room titles is not merely petty but also distracts from the real issues at hand.

medica

Thank you for asking.

@tchrist I have never slammed a mod before, and am very vocal in my support. Please substantiate your claims, as I'm sure other mod candidates feel the same way I do.

tchrist

It became irreparably incomprehensible on May 21 '11 1:05 PM and has largely remained so ever since.

30 mins ago, by phenry

@hichris123 - So it is making fun of a non-native speaker. And it was a moderator who brought it in. And it's been two months. Awesome.

hichris123

in English Language & Usage, 7 secs ago, by hichris123

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: General discussion for English Language and Usage. I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay. (no tags)

Anyone have a fit with that?

medica

@tchrist If you look in my meta comments, I support and trust the mods here. I believe they are doing a great job, RegDwight included. Please tell me where we have each taken up that platform.

tchrist

No straw horses, please.

phenry

1:32 AM

@tchrist - None of us here had any idea who was responsible for the room title until @hichris123 's impressive detective work. I certainly didn't set out to "zing" anybody.

tchrist

I cited the point that was made.

medica

@tchrist to whom are you addressing your comment?

phenry

But yeah, you know what, a moderator who treats the site's main chatroom like a private playpen for himself and his cronies is not someone I have confidence in. Since you bring it up.

tchrist

@phenry That’s a very aggressive statement, even a potentially offensive one. As one of “his cronies”, I not only represent that remark, I resent it.

On Jun 10 9:47 AM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay.”
On May 16 2:42 PM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Room. It slaws your typizg, too.”
On Jan 15 3:05 PM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Room. All languages spoken. At once.”
On Dec 22 '13 11:33 AM  RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: Is or "verse" or a homonym of "verse" another word for versus?”

I actually believe in meritocracies.

phenry

@tchrist - I wouldn't have said it if I didn't mean it.

tchrist

1:38 AM

@phenry Even worse.

hichris123

Let's get stay on-topic please (ironically enough).

tchrist

@phenry Since you will not retract your offensive remark, I can see that /ignore was the only sane place to keep you, and thither you return. Good bye.

phenry

I would be very interested in seeing statistics on the user and message distribution in the ELU main room vs. the other main rooms. My hypothesis is that we have a smaller core of chat users that post a higher percentage of messages than the network average for main rooms.

medica

I want to be another pair of hands for the present mods, who I feel might be overworked. I also want to be friendlier and more welcoming to new users. I would like to improve the quality of the questions and answers in any way I could. Add to that, I want to check the proliferation of examples of unacceptable behavior (name-calling, obscenity, and overt bullying - which I have not mentioned until now) off the front page.

This allegation is untrue and unfair, and if you believe otherwise, please point out specifics. It is only fair.

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