« first day (2014 days earlier)      last day (1166 days later) » 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

Duga
Duga
12:01 AM
RELOAD!
[MDoerner/AdventOfCode2019] 1 commit. 246 additions.
[Phrancis/AdventOfCode2019] 1 commit. 102 additions. 4 deletions.
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 1 opened issue. 1 closed issue. 1 issue comment.
[Minesweeper] Games Played: 57, Bombs Used: 24, Moves Performed: 6987, New Users: 6
 
 
2 hours later…
FreezePhoenix
FreezePhoenix
1:56 AM
Hi!
 
 
8 hours later…
Rohan
Rohan
9:44 AM
0
Q: Why is net cash flow from operations more in the annual report of Almarai?

RohanI am reading the cash flow statement from the annual report of Almarai for FY 2018. There if I add the total outflows and inflows I get a figure of 22,47,411,000 but in the annual report it says 35,57,726,000 FY 2018. What am I missing here? I got the annual report from here: https://www.almar...

cash-flow financial-statements annual-report
 
 
1 hour later…
Duga
Duga
11:13 AM
> The `AttributeValueOutOfSyncInspection` should by default change the attribute value and not the annotation. I.e. what happens when you select one of those inspections and click "Fix all occurrences in project". The rationale is that the annotation is easily accessible for me while the attribute is hard to change. So if I have to do this as a mass update, or just have more than 3 to change, it is easier to change the annotation manually than to change the attribute manually.

I think this is
 
Duga
Duga
11:28 AM
 
Duga
Duga
11:59 AM
> It is possible to mark multiple inspection results by shift-clicking them, however you cannot actually do anything with the multi select. If you right click and choose one of the fix methods it will only fix the item you right clicked. This is somewhat misleading as the UI suggests that you can do something with your multi selection, like you can in the test explorer.

A fairly clear limitation is obviously that it is hard to fix multiple inspections if they are not the same type as differen
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
12:15 PM
@M.Doerner wow. Haskell is COBOL-like in its verbosity!
 
Duga
Duga
> > fix all inspections with the same resolution option that would be even better.

![2019-12-11 07_17_12-Quarterly Reports](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/11889733/70620925-6e966700-1be6-11ea-9c82-4a761e9a346d.png)

Will any of those options do for you?
> For inspection results of the same type, applying a quickfix to all selected ones should be fairly simple.

Doing it for inspection results for different inspections allowing the same quickfix sounds doable, but requires a bit more thought regarding the compatibility check.

I think, as a first step, we should enhance the context menu to only show quickfixes applicable to all selected inspection results.
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
@FreeMan The final solution was more terce.
 
Duga
Duga
12:34 PM
> > > fix all inspections with the same resolution option that would be even better.
>
> ![2019-12-11 07_17_12-Quarterly Reports](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/11889733/70620925-6e966700-1be6-11ea-9c82-4a761e9a346d.png)
>
> Will any of those options do for you?

What I am thinking about is related to the other issue I just posted (#5315) in the sense that this functionality would be necessary if the fix I want to apply is different from the default fix.

But also, although
> > > fix all inspections with the same resolution option that would be even better.
>
> ![2019-12-11 07_17_12-Quarterly Reports](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/11889733/70620925-6e966700-1be6-11ea-9c82-4a761e9a346d.png)
>
> Will any of those options do for you?

What I am thinking about is related to the other issue I just posted (#5315) in the sense that this functionality would be necessary if the fix I want to apply is different from the default fix.

Edit: Another solut
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@M.Doerner otherwise = let argumentMode = toArgumentMode seems very much like COBOL's MULTIPLY COST BY QUANTITY GIVING EXTENDED_TOTAL type of syntax/verbosity. Syntax like otherwise and let feel like cobol's multiply and giving.
No disrespect to Haskell intended or implied
 
Duga
Duga
> > > fix all inspections with the same resolution option that would be even better.
>
> ![2019-12-11 07_17_12-Quarterly Reports](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/11889733/70620925-6e966700-1be6-11ea-9c82-4a761e9a346d.png)
>
> Will any of those options do for you?

What I am thinking about is related to the other issue I just posted (#5315) in the sense that this functionality would be necessary if the fix I want to apply is different from the default fix.

Edit: Another solut
> > > fix all inspections with the same resolution option that would be even better.
>
> ![2019-12-11 07_17_12-Quarterly Reports](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/11889733/70620925-6e966700-1be6-11ea-9c82-4a761e9a346d.png)
>
> Will any of those options do for you?

What I am thinking about is related to the other issue I just posted (#5315) in the sense you can't use the fix all methods if you want to use a resolution type different to the default one.

Edit: Another solution
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@FreeMan that's basically Case True Then { argumentMode = toArgumentMode; ...}
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
12:59 PM
Arriving at the final version of my Haskell code took me some hours of debugging.
At least, I have understood do notation, now.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
yay for the do monad
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
One of the problems was that argumentModesFromSpecifier = (map toArgumentMode) . digits was not quite right.
I needed argumentModesFromSpecifier = (map toArgumentMode) . reverse . digits.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
so you're skipping the opcode outside of that function?
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
1:23 PM
It is used here
 
 
1 hour later…
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
2:28 PM
And yes, the opcode is already handled outside the function.
 
Duga
Duga
3:12 PM
> Basically, extend the quickfix commands to expand into "Fix once" / "Fix in procedure" / "Fix in project" / "Fix everywhere" (as applicable)? i.e. instead of picking e.g. "Add explicit 'Public' access modifier" you'd hover "Add explicit 'Public' access modifier" and then select "Fix once" to fix only the selected result, "Fix in procedure" to fix all results with this quickfix in the procedure, and so on.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Yeah! My sister is producing a new brat for the world to deal with...
Only half-sarcasm. I don't like kids.
Hey there, @Freeflow.
 
Freeflow
Freeflow
@Hosch250 hi. Just cobbling together a dictionary of dictionaries for my Advent of Code day 11 robot map.
In vba of course#
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Hmm. That sounds wrong.
The Space Police one?
That's basically a maze solver.
 
Freeflow
Freeflow
3:28 PM
Well, the (Holds/Exits/Contains) properties have been most useful in this years problems. so I'm probably just stuck in a rut
 
mansellan
mansellan
or a trap :-)
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Well, I'd consider looking at A*, maybe.
It's also very much like a logo turtle.
 
Freeflow
Freeflow
Slaps Head. I think I've just realised it'll be easier to use just the one dictionary which just records the robots track.
 
Duga
Duga
 
this
this
Professor Bumblebee is particularly absent-minded. After forgetting his briefcase and his jacket, confusing Tuesday for Wednesday, he went up the wrong way on an one-way street and crossed the street on a red light. The policeman observed him doing all those things could not charge him with anything. Why?
 
Freeflow
Freeflow
3:43 PM
He was walking over a bridge
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this He was a ped. Peds can cross against red lights if it's clear.
And one-way is only for cars.
Alternately, the cop couldn't get to him to pull him over. Maybe the cop was working on the 25th floor of a building well away from his car :P
 
this
this
LOL. Last time I checked, cops don't normally work on 25th floor of any building.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
He was investigating a murder?
Or arresting a would-be murderer, and looked out the window?
 
this
this
I suppose so but even so, laws would have been broke and the professor could eventually be caught
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Maybe his wife ran a coffee shop up there and he was filing his nightly report?
 
this
this
3:47 PM
e.g. radio a follow cop to track him down
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
True, but he couldn't see the license plate from that high.
And maybe it was kind of a non-descript car.
 
this
this
I suppose so. However, the pedestrian answer was most simple and also the correct one.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
It's more fun to think of complex answers.
And technicalities.
 
this
this
indeed. But it would also suggest that the policeman's priorities are somehow messed up.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
What cops priorities aren't messed up?
 
this
this
3:51 PM
I mean, using the murder case answer, he's hot on a murder case, professor's violations seems small fry in comparison to nabbing the murderer
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Exactly. That's why he didn't prosecute him.
 
this
this
Of course! Hypothetical cops have right priorities!
Actual cops, OTOH....
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
TBH, there are probably some. Not my brother, though, who's a wanna-be cop.
He just wants to arrest people and beat them up.
 
this
this
:-\
probably should put him in that Mi.... experiment
as a prisoner, I mean.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
LOL.
 
this
this
3:53 PM
Milgram
no, that's the shock experiment
 
Duga
Duga
> **What**
The inspection would be a **Language Opportunity** inspection, flagging `Case Is = {literal}` statements, pointing out that the simpler `Case {literal}` notation would express the same condition with fewer tokens.

**Why**
When unfamiliar with the syntax for `Case` blocks, users may type `Case = {literal}` for a `Case` expression; the VBIDE autocorrects this to `Case Is = {literal}`, but this form is overly verbose. Rubberduck can remove the `Is =` double operator from the express
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Yeah, the prison experiment. I know what you're referring to.
 
Duga
Duga
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
If he's not careful, he might end up in the real life version of the experiment.
 
Duga
Duga
 
this
this
3:55 PM
apparently it's referred to just "Standford Prison Experiment", with Professor Zimbardo.
Now, that would suck.
 
Duga
Duga
> I think it may make more sense to disable multi-select.

If you want to fix multiple `Replace variant returning function with type returning function` (i.e. `Left()` -> `Left$()` -- don't remember the exact wording) you can select the appropriate `Fix all` options from the bottom (or even better from the context menu).

However, you're probably also not going to want to fix all the `Implicit default member calls` in the same shot - there are too many possibilities (at least for my little
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@Hosch250 In most places in the US that's jay walking and it's illegal. It's never persecuted enforced unless the cop is in a particularly grumpy mood, but technically it's a no no. In England (and the rest of the UK), it seems there is no such thing as jay walking...
I asked
4
Q: Jaywalking in England

FreeManIn America, jaywalking (crossing against the light or in the middle of a block where there is no marked pedestrian crossing) is technically illegal, but the enforcement rate is generally* very close to zero. I tend to cross the street when it's convenient and looks to be safe to do so**, not when...

walking england
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
It's only jaywalking if there's traffic trying to use the road.
It happens ALL THE TIME in the cities here, and makes it extremely dangerous to drive. In suburbs, it's not a problem because there's less traffic so people just either wait for the light or cross when it's clear.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
I'm willing to bet that in most jurisdictions in the US it's illegal to cross the street on foot except at an intersection or other designated cross-walk and only when the pedestrian signal (if equipped) or traffic light indicates you may do so. Of course, if there is just a stop sign or no signs at all, you're on your own.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
/shrug
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
4:05 PM
I'm not saying it's enforced, but it is, technically, illegal.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Hmmm.
OK, cops, come get me.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
yeah. It's like the old law from somewhere in CT (or other New England state) that said you couldn't serve ice cream on Sunday, so somebody invented the Sundae to get around it...
(maybe it was an ice cream cone...)
 
this
this
Funny, I found out that there was a reason for one of such silly law at one time.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
IIRC, the ice cream cone was because someone ran out of clean bowls at a fair, and the neighboring vendor sold him some waffles?
 
this
this
In particular the law against having the ice cream cone in your pocket.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
4:07 PM
yeah, I think that's how the cone was invented.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this Huh, do tell.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
but then some killjoy said you couldn't sell on Sunday, so an entrepreneur figured out a way around that, hence the sundae
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@FreeMan Yeah.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Don't count out creativity when there's cash to be made!
 
this
this
Basically, a horse thief can entice a horse to follow the thief by simply having an ice cream in the back pocket, which horse really likes apparently and will be willing to follow the thief
and if the sheriff bothers the man about it, he can just say "but horse just followed me. I wasn't doing nothing! i didn't even touch the horse!"
which is technically all true and thus not "horse-stealing"
so to stop that nonsense, they made it illegal to have ice cream in your back pocket.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
4:31 PM
Interesting discussion this morning.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
24 mins ago, by FreeMan
Don't count out creativity when there's cash to be made!
 
this
this
^
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
funny thing, a carrot or some sugar cubes would probably work just as well.
Also: that's the kind of fact a Texan would know
@IvenBach as is often the case 'round here
 
this
this
I was told it was a Georgian law
I think sugar cubes would have been impractical.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
my point still stands... ;)
 
this
this
4:35 PM
Not sure why they didn't just outlaw carrots also. Maybe it wasn't tempting enough to make the horse follow for a distance?
Just so we're clear, I know jack about horses.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
They don't care about carrots as much.
They kind of do like sugar, though.
Just like dogs love chocolate (even if it's lethal to a significant number of them).
 
this
this
and ice cream's choke full of it, so...
significant? I thought it's lethal to all of them?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
No.
A goodly number aren't affected.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
my dogs half lived on chocolate and both made it well into their teens
 
this
this
Really? I was always told it was universally lethal.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:40 PM
Funny thing, my aunt's dog ate a whole bar of dark chocolate (the most dangerous kind) and wasn't harmed.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Never hear that until a few (10ish) years ago
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
There's a lot of stories like that.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
just like nobody was allergic to peanuts until all of a sudden everybody was.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
IIRC, it's enough that it's safest to just assume it for all of them, but it's really not.
A significant number is allergic, and why risk it when you can just not give them chocolate?
 
this
this
Yeah that'd make sense.
Peanut allergy, OTOH... That just ain't right, man.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:42 PM
@FreeMan I'm convinced that it spread so fast because the gov engineered a virus making people allergic to peanuts :P
 
this
this
I mean, c'mon, can you imagine an ancient person suffering from nut allergy and having asthma?
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
> We never knew lil' Jimmy was alergic. Thought he was just an itchy child.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Just as a test so they knew they were on the right track for more common things, like being allergic to oxygen.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Oxidation breaks things down.
 
this
this
steps away from Hosch - will have no truck with any insane conspiracy theories
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:43 PM
@this They'd probably have died. That's probably why so many allergies just cropped up recently--they don't kill you and can spread to your descendants.
@this LOL.
 
this
this
@IvenBach the way they carry about it, though, you'd think li'l Jimmy was bloating up like red tomato on daily basis and nearly dying every other day.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this Some do. Like some people are allergic to bees.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
:shrug: That I know of, I'm only allergic to cats and birds.
 
this
this
@Hosch250 There's a different explanation, though. The mutation load in our genome is increasing to a point where we as whole are more unfit than our descendants few generations earlier.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Oh and Pineapples. Very allergic to them.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:45 PM
My ex-boss' friend actually died a few months ago from a bee sting. The epi-pens weren't strong enough and she died before the medics got there.
They had her on life support for a few days, but she didn't come back.
 
this
this
As a kid or as an adult?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Adult. 50-ish.
 
this
this
what a way to go
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@MathieuGuindon Are we still expecting someone to show up from GitHub?
We just got a brand new user here who can't talk.
@this Eh, at least she was unconscious...
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@user12215394 Welcome to the pond. We should have someone to give you chat privileges in a little while. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:47 PM
There's always that one way where (I think the Persians?) would seal you in a pit with your head out, then feed you honey and milk to induce explosive diarrhea.
 
this
this
@Hosch250 yeah i mean, it's not exactly impressive to have "died from a bee sting" on your tombstone. ;-)
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Then the bugs would come and start eating it and burrowing into you, and you'd die from gangrene.
And you were awake for a good part of the time.
 
this
this
Sounds lovely.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Or the people who'd be hung in a cage until they starved.
(Looks at England during the wars for Scottish Independence.)
Or the people who'd be hung by a rib until they died, either by being eaten by vultures while still alive or from starvation.
I've always felt sorry for Guy Fawkes. Pity his plot didn't work out.
Parliament should declare Nov 5th a national day of mourning.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
The middle ages is full of 'clever' torture strategies.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:53 PM
Nowadays people complain about waterboarding...
I mean, I don't condone it, but it's mild.
 
this
this
It wasn't just middle age, though. Ancients were just as bad if not worse.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Heck, a lot of people apparently do it for fun with their friends in HS...
(Reminds me a story about the military when a bunch of grunts started a waterboarding party, to the surprise of the DIs.)
 
this
this
DI = ?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Drill Instructor.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@Hosch250 you're 100% correct. They spray it in chemtrails from aircraft.
put on your tinfoil hat, it's the only thing that will save you!
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
4:58 PM
Umm, tinfoil is against brainwaves.
I need a medical-grade mask to not breathe it.
 
this
this
@FreeMan steps away from Freeman. Inconspicuously writes an entry in a little black book.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
And to purify my own water to not drink it or absorb it through my skin.
 
this
this
Make sure it's free of fluoride, too.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
5:10 PM
@Vogel612 Mind holding my hand on understanding git aliases?
Think I may have found what I need by reading the manual.
I'm all googly eyed over git config --global alias.diffc diff\ --color-words.
I have read the manual and taught myself something. The power. The potential. The promise to be responsible with it.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@IvenBach Responsible? Why would you be responsible?
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Because my parents raised me proper.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
That's no fun :(
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
> Excel Global Summit followed you
=)
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@IvenBach grats, you did it yourself :)
note that you can invoke arbitrary shell commands if you prefix the alias value with an !
@IvenBach yes, burning things does that ;)
 
Duga
Duga
5:29 PM
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
5:59 PM
@MathieuGuindon now you have to watch where you're going.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@Vogel612 An example of a shell command would be ping IvenBach to get a response from my workstation if it's named 'IvenBach'. Explicitly confirming since I don't actually know what the shell is.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
yeap
well ... close enough.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Duck check: Why is it called shell?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
if only I knew
cmd, PS, sh, bash, zsh are all examples of shells
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
It's a pun on C-Shell.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
6:00 PM
because Unix sells c-shells by the sea shore
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
(I've waited for years to make that pun...)
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
lol
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
(No, I didn't really.)
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
@IvenBach because Bowser is really King Koopa
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
Shell (computing)
In computing, a shell is a user interface for access to an operating system's services. In general, operating system shells use either a command-line interface (CLI) or graphical user interface (GUI), depending on a computer's role and particular operation. It is named a shell because it is the outermost layer around the operating system kernel.CLI shells require the user to be familiar with commands and their calling syntax, and to understand concepts about the shell-specific scripting language (for example bash). Graphical shells place a low burden on beginning computer users, and are ch...
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
6:01 PM
But... What is the shell?
> It is named a shell because it is the outermost layer around the operating system kernel.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
the outermost layer of the OS you interact with -> the shell
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
28
Q: Why was the word "shell" used to descibe a command-line interface?

Eric WilsonI'm curious about the term "shell." I think I know what it is (though the distinction between "shell" and "terminal" is still fuzzy) but why was the word "shell" chosen to describe this type of program? This might seem unimportant, but usually when the word choices mystifies me, it is pointing t...

shell terminology
Like a nut shell.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
Application Programs are a step further away from the kernel
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
I know that it's just a word and it shouldn't cause me to stumble, but they do.
Shell = 3D sphere radius. I get that idea now.
I still don't grok what a kernel is though.
Kernel (operating system)
The kernel is a computer program that is the core of a computer's operating system, with complete control over everything in the system. The kernel facilitates interactions between hardware and software components. On most systems, it is one of the first programs loaded on start-up (after the bootloader). It handles the rest of start-up as well as input/output requests from software, translating them into data-processing instructions for the central processing unit. It handles memory and peripherals like keyboards, monitors, printers, and speakers. The critical code of the kernel is usually loaded...
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@IvenBach The inside of the nut.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
6:05 PM
I've read the article several times but still have yet to have the comprehension lightbulb turn on.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
the kernel is the thing that's specific to your hardware, basically
the smallest amount of executable code of the hardware level that allows you to bootstrap everything else into place
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
bootstrap?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
in an OS context that meaning has changed somewhat to include stuff like scheduling daemons, execution privileges and general hardware handling (be it bluetooth, disks, usb devices, ...)
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
As far as that goes, does that mean that Windows wouldn't be able to run on a new chip (not just an iteration of an existing one, like most new Intel chips) until MS wrote a C compiler for it?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
the process of pulling yourself out of the swamp by your bootstraps
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
6:08 PM
^ don't get that analogy...
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@Hosch250 strictly speaking, no, because most chips from the same manufacturer are largely backwards compatible in their instruction set to enable quick adoption
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Draw a free body diagram of the forces and the bootstrap analogy falls apart.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@Vogel612 That's what I mean. Those are practically just iterations of an existing one.
@IvenBach That's why someone pulls themselves up by their bootstraps. It's a joke, because it's impossible.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@IvenBach in the original sense it's a compiler written in machine code, that allows you to compile a subset of a language to machine code.
you usually write a compiler in that subset and compile that until you can support the whole language
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:09 PM
Unless they tie a rope to them and throw it over something.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
for example the rust compiler was written using that process
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@Vogel612 There was an article linked here about someone that did that for #fun.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@Hosch250 then the answer is yes
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Or maybe it was the 2nd monitor.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
> The kernel facilitates interactions between hardware and software components. On most systems, it is one of the first programs loaded on start-up (after the bootloader). It handles the rest of start-up as well as input/output requests from software, translating them into data-processing instructions for the central processing unit. It handles memory and peripherals like keyboards, monitors, printers, and speakers.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
6:10 PM
you can't run Windows on a machine that uses an instruction set you can't compile to
usually you won't need a full compiler, though
it's probably much easier to write a target specification for gcc
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
So us human flesh bags use the software. The software produces instructions that are sent to the CPU which is then sent to the kernel which translates it to the hardware instructions?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
it's a useful picture, albeit not what happens
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Also, don't try to type "bootstrap" with one hand. It turns itself into a really bad typo.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
hm, pretty sure CPU is the lowest-level component in this equation
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
the software is either executed or interpreted
if it's executed it runs on the CPU, so it's already machine code
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:12 PM
@IvenBach No, the CPU is the hardware.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
if it's interpreted, there is a program that's being executed that does the interpreting
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
I'm lacking in the fundamentals of computers...
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
so in the end it's always running as machine code somewhere
@IvenBach when you move the mouse, the device sends data via USB to the computer. The USB interface will then raise a CPU Interrupt, saying "Hey I have new data"
then the CPU goes "hang on, lemme read that", reads the input and passes the data to a specified callback routine that was registered by your window manager
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Callback routine = something (anything really) that could be subscribed and wanting to know about when a mouse moves?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
and then some pixels move on the screen
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
6:16 PM
@IvenBach yep
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Mkay. These are the explicit breadcrumbing steps I need to overcome my knowledge gap.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
The CPU tells the GPU to do something.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
:derp: image right there shows App <--> Kernel <--> CPU...
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Fun things you could do are look into building an adder with hardware and looking into common assembly stuff.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@IvenBach that's a bit of a lie, because the vast majority of the smarts happens on the CPU, but it's about right for the responsibilities
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:18 PM
Like, the move, increment, etc statements.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@Vogel612 Presently if you try and properly educate me I'll drown in the details. Let me have my kiddie-pool-close-enough-for-now explanation.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
to interact with memory or devices you'd need the CPU to write something to the shared bus
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
After comprehension settles in I'll be able to digest the actualities of how it works.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
so the kernel and all the applications also run on the CPU
the only difference between the Kernel and any other application running on your computer is that the kernel has special privileges on the CPU that allow it to do I/O
so everybody doing IO has to ask the kernel to do it for them
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
^^ The gatekeeper that always gets priority access?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:22 PM
@Vogel612 Nowadays.
Back in the day, anyone could do it.
That was one of the biggest problems with Windows 3.1.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Apologies, as this is way lower level than I'm comfortable with.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Because for backward compatibility, they didn't take that ability away.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
~jawdrop
wow that's bad
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
So programs were kind of interfering with each other.
IIRC, it got taken away in 95.
But, before then, everything had access to everything.
There wasn't really an OS in the way we think of it today.
@Vogel612 That's a little over-simplified too. IO isn't the only thing only the kernel has permissions to do too.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
ya
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:32 PM
I'm not enough of a low-level dev to be able to name them, but there are others that are similar.
IIRC, interrupts and stuff like that.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
interrupts are actually on the hardware level and registering them is just IO
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Oh.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
you basically write an instruction pointer to a specific location
 
this
this
so you're saying it's up to the software to respond to the interrupt?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
basically, yea
 
this
this
6:39 PM
I always thought the interrupt had some higher priority and thus could override whatever was executing.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
it does
you basically trigger an unscheduled context switch
 
this
this
unless the software doesn't respond to it.... but I guess that's where the kernel barges in and punts it to sideline.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
yea...
or you get a bluescreen
because the interrupt handing was faulty and that borked something
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
So...
Does anyone think the W3C made a mistake by introducing header to HTML given the similarity to the head element?
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
huh? there is a header element now?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:42 PM
Yes. And a footer.
They got introduced in HTML5.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
yay for semantic web
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
They are basically just contextualized section elements.
So div is purely for display purposes now.
And nav.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
honestly better than section.header
 
this
this
fwiw they should move away from div soup
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
divsoup is better than tables
 
this
this
6:43 PM
you can now define custom element so that would make for more readable HTML
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this Div soup is almost entirely caused by the cascading layout of the pages.
It's a super pain to get things to be in rows.
Honestly, I find it as bad as JS to work with.
 
this
this
i'm saying you don't have to have use div literally; you can create element named row, base it on div with some formatting then write your html like <mytable><row /></mytable> instead of <div class="mytable"><div class="row" /></div>
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Oh, yes, you can do that.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
@this unless you want actual column width support...
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
It's not particularly easy, IIRC.
 
this
this
6:45 PM
but anyway, the fact that you have headers and head.... that's just a symptom of how borked HTML is
well, rather HTML and HTTP
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Head isn't rendered. You put metadata there, like links to stylesheets.
Header is just a named div.
 
this
this
oh, I'm conflating with HTTP headers
ignore me.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
<HTML LANG="EN">
 <HEAD>
  <META CHARSET="UTF-8">
  <BASE HREF="https://www.example.com/">
  <TITLE>An application with a long head</TITLE>
  <LINK REL="STYLESHEET" HREF="default.css">
  <LINK REL="STYLESHEET ALTERNATE" HREF="big.css" TITLE="Big Text">
  <SCRIPT SRC="support.js"></SCRIPT>
  <META NAME="APPLICATION-NAME" CONTENT="Long headed application">
 </HEAD>
 
this
this
I was also going to comment that those kind of stuff is what I think make web development so hard to learn - you can't really just learn HTML in isolation, nor can you HTTP. You have to basically know HTML + HTTP + CSS + JS all at once.
If you don't understand what's going on, you're screwed.
@Hosch250 is your throat sore now?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
:D
Copy/pastaed.
Then you have the body tag.
Which is where the stuff that gets rendered goes.
Or executed, if it's in a script tag.
 
this
this
6:48 PM
yeah
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Hard to believe, but HTML5 has been around so long most of the features are in IE10.
 
this
this
oh wow.
it still feel so recent when people were getting all excited over the canvas that would be introduced in HTTML5
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
IKR?
 
this
this
that was the death knell of Flash. Thankfully.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
I'm just frustrated because there's so much they could do but haven't.
 
this
this
6:51 PM
I absolutely loathed those flash-only sites
that's the nature of catering to the LCD. You get the shittiest feature set and quirky behaviors and everyone's "meh, good nough"
 
Cyril
Cyril
@this camelcase is more abuse to my pinky than underscore... i don't honestly understand the hate ='/
trying to use better variable names for a project i'm working and using camelcase is starting to physically affect me
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@MathieuGuindon Industry Disruptor had better start feeling normal to you by now.
@this :cough: Politics :cough:. Sorry this cold weather...
 
this
this
Hey, now. It's designed by committee, not congress.
If it was designed by Congress, it would be non-working, expensive, overly regulated and heavily subsidized.
@Cyril try_and_type_fast_with_underscores_in_every_word_and_you_start_to_notice_how_ridiclously_slow_it_is_and_you_will_hate_it_with_a_passion
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
isn't_that_a_matter_of_keyboard_layout?
 
this
this
WhereasIfITypeWithCamelCaseICanTypeMuchFasterAndNotMindTheUppercase.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
6:58 PM
@this Sounds like the web to me, LOL.
 
this
this
how do you type it? On mine, I need both my pinkies to type an undercase.
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
I use the left pinky and the right ring finger
 
this
this
so it's few more keys to the left?
 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

« first day (2014 days earlier)      last day (1166 days later) »