VBA Rubberducking

Duga

12:01 AM

RELOAD!

[banane-io/PDB] 2 commits. 2 additions. 2 deletions.

[banane-io/pdb-frontend] 5 commits. 1162 additions. 400 deletions.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 2 opened issues. 5 issue comments.

[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] 6 commits. 777 additions. 949 deletions.

[Minesweeper] Games Played: 93, Bombs Used: 59, Moves Performed: 11007, New Users: 25

Hosch250

VS 2019 is as performant as 2017.

I use it at both work and home. Quad-core 16GB on both.

Unless it's 12GB at home.

Vogel612

@mansellan test explorer was changed in some ways.

Hosch250

@Vogel612 I think that's coming in .2.

mansellan

Oh ok. IDK about that, I use the R# test runner.

Hosch250

I have .1, and it's not there yet.

mansellan

12:05 AM

will check it out

Vogel612

@Hosch250 yea, I only know that it was broken for the people over at SE

Hosch250

As far as that goes, it's preview still :)

.2 likely won't be out for at least a month.

mansellan

imho, the vs test runner has never got anywhere near resharper's

Mathieu Guindon

With next release it's coming close to Rubberduck's

=)

mansellan

@MathieuGuindon lol not that close :-)

All I can suggest is to try 2019, nothing I've seen suggests it's massively heavier.

mansellan

12:24 AM

@Vogel612 You have 4 physical cores? Luxury! My laptop has 2 physical and 2 fake cores...

Vogel612

yea, I was misremembering :/

Hosch250

I have 4 physical and 8 fake :)

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 1992 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)

mansellan

I think that beyond a sensible minimum, ram is more important than cores to VS these days

@Hosch250 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3520M CPU @ 2.90GHz, 2901 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)

Hosch250

My brother has a dual-core.

He doesn't program, though.

Just texts on FB.

mansellan

12:38 AM

@Hosch250 I can attest that the 3520M is sufficient for VS2017, if you're not impatient.

Hell, I did most of the VB6 work on it

Oh btw, I started watching those NDC YouTubes. I think I sort-of understand moands now :-)

Hosch250

I believe you.

My cores are usually idle.

mansellan

"Functors you can collapse"

Hosch250

@mansellan The NDC conference talks were awesome.

Is that the Mark Seemann one?

I was in that one :)

mansellan

Yes

He didn't have time for questions, otherwise I'm sure I'd have seen you raise your hand!

Hosch250

No, it was good.

I did have questions for a few, but not most of them, actually.

I don't think I was in the camera. I was on the left side of the room.

Some of them you can see the back of my head.

mansellan

12:44 AM

#TIL Linq Select is a functor, and Linq SelectMany is a monad.

I really need to check out F#

Vogel612

LINQ select is just map, and select many is flatMap

Hosch250

F# is awesome.

It takes a bit to learn the functional programming paradigms, but F# makes it easy once you know them.

If it compiles, it usually runs good in F#.

mansellan

@Vogel612 I would have no idea what that meant before I saw the demo.

Maybe<Rubberduck>

Vogel612

so select :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] | selectMany:: (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b]

though strictly speaking the [a] is the first argument

mansellan

@Vogel612 I feel like Iven.... scratches head

M.Doerner

12:47 AM

I also just watched that talk.

mansellan

@Vogel612 OK, I get it

Vogel612

it's haskell type notation :)

mansellan

Not sure I can sell my colleagues on treating Task<T> like IEnumerable<T> though... Query syntax against Task is kinda.... weird.

Hosch250

LOL.

TBH, though, F# has better language support around this.

mansellan

@Hosch250 I imagine so, it's built for it iiuc

Hosch250

12:51 AM

You could also find a different name. It doesn't have to be "select".

The one thing with F#, though, is that you can access the value.

But it's mostly with pattern matching.

Like:

match value with
| None -> None
| Some v -> doSomething v

mansellan

@Hosch250 Uh, wut? I thought Select (and SelectMany) were 'magic' indicators to Linq?

Hosch250

@mansellan Ohh, for query syntax, yes.

I don't like query syntax.

I never use it.

mansellan

@Hosch250 Me either, who does?

Hosch250

TBH, it's like my weakest point of C#, and I barely know it.

mansellan

It makes me quaesy

I get the impression that Maybe<T> is hugely important, and I need to explore it.

Vogel612

12:55 AM

it is. It's basically a better version of null :)

Hosch250

It's actually basically Nullable<T>

C# 8 is getting support for it with classes.

mansellan

@Hosch250 But with a map?

Hosch250

Not quite in that way.

But it's essentially the same in principle.

The concept I found more important was that of behavior injection.

mansellan

So what I heard is that a functor allows for transformation with structural integritry. Nullable<T> doesn't do that ootb, but with a select extension it can?

Vogel612

@Hosch250 you mean like continuation passing style?

Hosch250

12:58 AM

More like using functions like values.

More, delegate/lambda type stuff, where you inject behaviors as functions.

Vogel612

yea, that's what I was referring to :)

CPS is a specific usecase for that

mansellan

I think I need to learn F#, so I can back-port the knowledge to C#...

Vogel612

basically you pass what should happen on return into the function instead of chaining the statements

@mansellan with Nullable you need to explicitly handle null.

with a functor and a proper monad definition, you don't need to.

mansellan

Gah, so a functor is a pure function which preserves the input structure?

Vogel612

functions are always pure, unless marked IO

Hosch250

1:01 AM

@Vogel612 Oh, right.

Vogel612

a functor is a structure that takes a function and a monad and transforms the monad with the function

mansellan

@Vogel612 marked IO?

Vogel612

main :: IO()

Hosch250

Basically, marked as input or output. i.e. it interacts with another system.

Vogel612

IO is the IO monad, which allows you to do impure behavior

Hosch250

1:03 AM

I think I'm going to write my next microservice in F# at work.

mansellan

Wow, I feel dumb. IO markers are not in c# right?

Hosch250

And just say if they ever adopt it, they can rewrite it at some point :)

No, they are not.

Vogel612

@mansellan and yes, that preserves the structure, but that's something of a property of the monad, because the monad's behaviour is defined as being structurally stable with a functor

Hosch250

They are not in F# either, AFAIK.

Vogel612

and a functor is defined to not mess with the structure of a monad

mansellan

1:04 AM

I have much to learn

Mathieu Guindon

You have to use the !DOCTYPE tag on your html page to make it work well on IE. — Fabio Jan 28 '12 at 14:23

Hosch250

@mansellan Don't we all :)

@MathieuGuindon You have to have that for it to be a valid HTML webpage.

Most browsers will accept it anyway and try to guess which version you are using.

Including newer versions of IE.

Vogel612

anyways. bedtime :)

Hosch250

But it makes it easier on the browser if you specify it.

Mathieu Guindon

@Vogel612 'night!

Hosch250

1:05 AM

Night!

IvenBach

@Vogel612 Trippy stuff on an analog screen.

mansellan

So.... tl;dr: Linq has introduced us to FP, without telling us. Now when we want to peek behind the curtain, there's no docs. Amirite?

Hosch250

Much of C# since then has come from functional languages.

Linq, pattern matching, async/await...

Nullable value, and now nullable reference, types.

mansellan

@Hosch250 Sure, but respectfully you're missing my point... Underneath all this, there's functors, monads, ?...... And none of that is exposed.... Are C# devs the new VB devs, too fragile to see behind the curtain? Because that would suck.

Hosch250

Unfortunately, yes, most are.

mansellan

1:17 AM

Um, damn.

Hosch250

From experience at work, it's just me that has an even remote understanding of it.

mansellan

googles F#

Hosch250

The other two that were sharp enough and interested enough to pick it up with time were run out for trying to push for changes.

The only reason I'm staying is because I have so much free time to do as I like, and I like my coworkers.

mansellan

Wow, that's messed up

Hosch250

If there was a good F# job in the area, I'd try for it.

mansellan

1:21 AM

Instinctively, I'd guess that MS would look to migrate FP into C#, that's where their population is. F# has the enthusiasts, but C# is the mainstream.

Just my intuition

Hosch250

I think that's what they're doing.

mansellan

Oh, and VB is the embarrasing ex....

Hosch250

They are beginning to market the FP sides of C# more, and aren't marketing it as OOP anymore, really.

mansellan

But IME, the big money is always in the zeitgeist. Bleeding edge may be satisfying, but cutting edge is where it pays.

Do you want to be a trailblazer, or do you want to maximise your income?

Duga

5:08 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] tallguyjenks created comment on issue #4878: nested folders in project explorer

> guess i forgot to close this issue if the onus for that was on me, i apologize, but anyhoo, closing this.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] tallguyjenks closed issue #4878: nested folders in project explorer

Duga

6:52 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] vovka1981 created comment on issue #1219: 'Parsed' parser state should refresh SC panel asynchronously

> Ai I understand when invoked by shortcut refresh is made on the background and the refresh button is inactive while it process it.
The issue is when this button-icon becomes active, sometimes its not refreshes by keys shortcut, only by pressing this button directly (

M.Doerner

12:49 PM

I really like that in FP the names actually match the mathematical concept, at least up to edge cases.

Duga

3:48 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach created comment on issue #4975: Make all HotKeys / Shortcuts Configurable

> Are you referring to the context menu, right click button, in the coding area? Those aren’t configurable currently. One of the other ducks (contributors) would know better about that though.

Duga

3:59 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach created comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> To enable this functionality where would we look to get started? First glance this seems not too difficult to enable.

Duga

5:22 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> @IvenBach I would find a command that already has a hotkey, and then see if there wouldn't be a way to refactor it and implement a default no-op hotkey behavior in CommandBase, and then make the hotkey settings just list every single command and let the user assign hotkeys as they please - or, just do that one and refactor/generalize later ;-)

Mathieu Guindon

@Duga or, derive from CommandBase to make a HotkeyCommandBase class, so we can cherry-pick which commands can and cannot have hotkeys

Vogel612

We should make sure there is some cherry-picking

but we should also allow focus-local hotkey behaviour

not every command makes sense as a "global" hotkey target

repeat last test run is one of them, though

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4878: nested folders in project explorer

> @tallguyjenks no problem - I had simply left this [support] issue opened, to make it easier to find - but yeah the wiki page makes it basically moot, I should have closed it. Thanks!

Mathieu Guindon

@Vogel612 yeah. The many variations of "refresh/reparse" come to mind as well

Wait no we're reusing them now are we not?

In any case, we'll want to cherry pick anyway

Vogel612

@MathieuGuindon IIRC we're reusing them

because there is only a single RefreshCommand instance injected into everything

Mathieu Guindon

5:41 PM

Cool. IIRC the CE had/has(?) its own set of commands too

Duga

5:51 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 created comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> Note that there may not be a dedicated command for this right now and you possibly need to change how the TestExplorer commands are wired up a bit for this.

It shouldn't be too difficult, though.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label difficulty-01-duckling to issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label feature-hotkeys to issue #4975: Make all HotKeys / Shortcuts Configurable

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label difficulty-03-duck to issue #4975: Make all HotKeys / Shortcuts Configurable

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 created comment on issue #4975: Make all HotKeys / Shortcuts Configurable

> I'm overmarking this as a 03, because this has wide-ranging implications across the codebase that could be resolved as part of this issue.

If one were to "only" expose **all** Rubberduck implementations of `CommandBase` to hotkeys, this would be a difficulty-02.
When touching this, one should consider the following notions:

- Not every specific Command implementation makes sense as a command exposed to global hotkeys.
- It's impossible to specify hotkeys for `DelegateCommand` because

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 created comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> follow-up to generalize is available in #4975

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 edited comment on issue #4975: Make all HotKeys / Shortcuts Configurable

> I'm overmarking this as a 03, because this has wide-ranging implications across the codebase that could be resolved as part of this issue.

If one were to "only" expose **all** Rubberduck implementations of `CommandBase` to hotkeys, this would be a difficulty-02.
When touching this, one should consider the following notions:

- Not every specific Command implementation makes sense as a command exposed to global hotkeys.
- It's impossible to specify hotkeys for `DelegateCommand` because

Vogel612

it's a bit big to mark as 02, but it's not quite weird enough to be 03. Everything necessary has been done before

IvenBach

8:14 PM

How do you link issues on GH?

I can’t figure it out on mobile. @MathieuGuindon? ^

Mathieu Guindon

#searchtext on gh

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach created comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> #4407 are somewhat interrelated

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach edited comment on issue #4974: Hotkey to Repeat Last Test Run

> #4407 and this are somewhat interrelated

IvenBach

My eventual conquest of GH is won one :derp: at a time.

IvenBach

11:19 PM

:click: now I know what tear-tabs are github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/issues/…

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