VBA Rubberducking

9:00 PM

comcast is selling 1Gbps down 35Mbps up over coax WITH A 1 TB DATA CAP

@mansellan that's rare, I think. most mobile providers (in US?) wants to nickel'n'dime for the data. Or I'm just unlucky.

puzzlepiece87

> The United States permits Comcast ~~is selling 1Gbps up 35Mbps down over coax WITH A 1 TB DATA CAP~~ to exist

Fixed that for you

KySoto

scuse me... if you give someone the ability to download at 1Gbit/s

how hte hell is a 1TB cap in any way logical

mansellan

@this yeah, there's more competition in the UK i think

puzzlepiece87

@this ?? Unlimited plans have been a thing for like 2 years now?

this

9:02 PM

@mansellan I also suspect the density helps too

puzzlepiece87

Even my Google Fi reseller plan has unlimited data after 6 GB

this

@puzzlepiece87 Yeah but aren't they usually a top tier plan?

e.g. cough up a lotta of dough, mac

KySoto

their fiber plan is 2Gbps synchronous

with no data cap

mansellan

@this yeah true

KySoto

BUT it has a 500 dollar activation fee, and a 500 dollar installation fee, plus its 300 a month

oh and it takes 6-8 weeks to get it installed

puzzlepiece87

9:03 PM

@this Top tier or family plans. Since most people on SE are developers I considered it more likely than not that unlimited plans are a thing for them and saving money is more of a choice.

Comintern

I'm still waiting on my fiber install.

I suspect it has to do with the frozen ground and freakish amount of snow.

KySoto

also, how the hell are you supposed to really take advantage of 2gb internet

Comintern

Torrents.

mansellan

FTTP is very rare here, except in some new-builds in London

puzzlepiece87

@KySoto Those Linux distros aren't going to download themselves.

KySoto

9:04 PM

99% of consumer infrastructure is 1000 base t

mansellan

@Comintern Of Linux and CC of course :-)

KySoto

i dont mean what you spend your bandwidth on

i mean delivering the full amount to your devices

puzzlepiece87

@KySoto To be fair, lots of TV is internet-based these days, and people want 4k.

Comintern

@mansellan Absolutely - I'd totally host a Linux torrent.

KySoto

you would have to have 10Gb

puzzlepiece87

9:05 PM

It doesn't do you any good to buy a super tv and then put 720p Netflix on it.

KySoto

as a backbone minimum

puzzlepiece87

So that's what some people will use the fast speeds for.

KySoto

again, im not talking about content

mansellan

@KySoto just about doable, switches are slowly getting cheaper

Comintern

Netflix advises 25 Mbps for 4K.

KySoto

9:06 PM

im talking about the network infrastructure in their home

Comintern

That's a lot of TVs to eat 2gb.

puzzlepiece87

@KySoto Good point but shrugs network upgrades happen in bits and pieces. Do you get a WiFi 6 or whatever router yet?

KySoto

@mansellan yeah, and you would need to buy a switch that has a 10gb port, OR figure out how to set up nic teaming

puzzlepiece87

@Comintern "Up to" my friend, "up to"

KySoto

i dont have anything that can do AXE-FI

puzzlepiece87

9:07 PM

But yes also a good point.

KySoto

OH right, i havent told that joke here yet

yeah so 802.11ax REALLY makes me wanna call it AXE-FI

this

I guess going to 802.12 was too much of a strain for dem pen-holstered geeks

KySoto

also, my network currently consists of a ubiquiti USG which only has 3 ports, wan, lan, and a wan/lan port

a HP procurve (dont remember the model) with 24 ports

Comintern

@this They'd have to draft a whole new standard though.

KySoto

and a ubiquiti AP

this

9:10 PM

@Comintern so all those letters weren't "standard"?

KySoto

Though till i get the hard line ran through the attic to my office, the HP switch isnt actually hooked up yet

this

and i thought they loved the mountain of paperworks....

Comintern

Actually, 802.12 is already a spec.

KySoto

IEEE 802.12 100BaseVG disbanded

Comintern

> An 802.12 network does not use the media access protocol for either Ethernet or Token Ring. Instead, IEEE 802.12 defines its own media access protocol, the Demand Priority Access Method (DPAM).

this

9:11 PM

IEEE is.... interesting

KySoto

100BaseVG

100BaseVG is a 100 Mbit/s Ethernet standard specified to run over four pairs of category 3 cable (cable also known as voice grade, hence the "VG"). It is also called 100VG-AnyLAN because it was defined to carry both Ethernet and token ring frame types. 100BaseVG was originally proposed by Hewlett-Packard, ratified by the IEEE in 1995 and was practically extinct by 1998. In fact, IEEE records the status of its 100BaseVG standard as being a "Withdrawn Standard" (defined as "A standard which is no longer maintained and which may contain significant obsolete or erroneous information.") == St...

this

the logical thing would have been to go 802.XX, whatever is the next

Comintern

"Voice grade"?

this

but no, they had to add letters

Comintern

Is that a euphemism for "it runs on phone cords"?

puzzlepiece87

9:13 PM

@this Still better than the USB people

Comintern

Huh. That's actually a "thing".

this

The only standard thing about the standards is that they are non-standards about their standard compliance.

:facepalm:

Comintern

The decapitations are... disturbing...

this

USB Victims seems more apropos

mansellan

I really like the VS2019 splash screen

Mathieu Guindon

9:21 PM

screenshot? or it's already gone?

googles

hm

Comintern

If it's anything like 2017's start up, it'll be there for a while.

Mathieu Guindon

^

this

would be nice ot get the performance of 2015 back...

(hahaha, nope not going to happen)

Comintern

Wait, wut? There's a Mac version?

Mathieu Guindon

apparently

this

9:24 PM

Remember, that isn't Ballmer's MSFT.

Mathieu Guindon

@mansellan purple dots... purple dots everywhere

@this still waiting for open-sourcing of the VBE :)

Comintern

I doubt that will ever happen.

Too many security holes. It would be zero-day Office exploits for years.

this

and not open sourcing it is going to prevent it?

i would have thought the bigger barrier is due to other licenses that are involved in making VBE possible.

mansellan

@Comintern I counted about 2s...

this

esp. if those are involved in any lawsuits (c.f. the Sun one)

FreeMan

9:27 PM

@Comintern Usenet

mansellan

that's on a fresh install, no R# yet.

Comintern

Is R# supporting it yet?

Mathieu Guindon

AFAIK, yes

pretty sure JetBrains gets the preview build as soon as it's out :)

Comintern

I wouldn't doubt it.

Mathieu Guindon

@mansellan no way

next you're going to tell me it builds Rubberduck in mere seconds?

Comintern

9:32 PM

Open 50 code pane in RD, close it, and re-open it. Betting that's not 2s either.

Mathieu Guindon

oooh now that must be part of why.. I open a bunch of tabs, hardly ever close any

I basically @skiwi'd my VS

Comintern

^

Unless you pin them, it's really deceptive.

Feb 9 at 16:17, by Comintern

Up to 4 rows of pinned code panes in VS. It's starting to look like skiwi's browser in there.

My codepane selection drop-down sometimes reminds me of a CW error dialog too.

this

This seems silly. Why would having codepanes open cause the startup to delay?

Aren't all those extra stuff like the references/tests/author/whatever supposed to load asynchronously?

Mathieu Guindon

@this *codepanes. like, many pane-zah

Comintern

Beats me. It does make a noticeable difference though.

Mathieu Guindon

9:43 PM

team explorer too

this

@MathieuGuindon left out 's' by mistake.

and of course, R#

Test explorer.

facepalm

Output.

9:43 PM

Server Explorer is the worst

Comintern

^

this

What we have here is a failure to load asynchronously.

Comintern

I never use server explorer.

this

^ me x2

Comintern

It's a POS - I'll link over ODBC in SQL Server before I'd use that thing.

this

9:45 PM

Curious, do you use object explorer in SSMS?

Comintern

Hmmmm... Rubberduck.ServerExplorer

this

haven't looked in a long while but I think they are similar-ish. Only that I haven't had a good reason to use SE in VS

Comintern

@this Never.

this

if not OE then what you do for discovering objects? catalog views all the way?

Mathieu Guindon

@this always

@Comintern O.O

this

9:47 PM

@Comintern wouldn't that tend to end up being host-specific? Access and Excel handles the connections differently.

Comintern

Oh Object Explorer. For some reason I was thinking Object Browser.

this

LOL

Comintern

Yeah, I always use that.

this

I was wondering how the hell you get around without OE. :D

Comintern

@this Why would it? It would be over a .NET connection.

Mathieu Guindon

9:49 PM

@Comintern of course they had to give it a different name, you know

this

@MathieuGuindon because Microsoft

Comintern

IKR? Like a database can't be a "Solution" or something.

this

@Comintern within the RD's code, yeah but for purpose of discovering connections?

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern Ctrl+Shift+N

this

(or creating one?)

Comintern

9:50 PM

Huh. TIL.

Mathieu Guindon

never used that

just... happened to click the toolbar button for it yesterday when I meant to click the "File" menu

took forever to bring up the wizard

...only for me to close it

Comintern

I'm not sure what you'd use it for.

Mathieu Guindon

<~ ditto

Comintern

Wow, I didn't even realize SSMS had a properties window either.

this

yeah i use that for the execution plans

hovering over is too annoying

Comintern

9:53 PM

I'm starting to think they were like, "OK, we have all these VS windows - WTF do we fill them with".

I can't figure out how to get it to show anything except connection parameters.

this

the properties window?

on a query window they're useless.

run one w/ execution plan, then use it there

there might been other uses but this is the only use I do use.

Mathieu Guindon

on a query window it shows the connection state and SPID

Comintern

Mathieu Guindon

(and login info)

this

like I said, useless.

Mathieu Guindon

9:57 PM

SPID is useful when you... well, need to kill it

~~like.. what the "stop" button does~~

this

kind of making my point, dude.

:D

but if they didn't have that for the plans, analyzing the plans would be 1000x painful

Comintern

Half the information is in the damned status bar and toolbars anyway.

Mathieu Guindon

nah, "stop" is for cancelling execution; killing the SPID effectively disconnects the query pane

this

TBF, I don't know why they even thought hovertext was A-OK for execution plan stuff.

There's a context menu to disconnect, too.

Comintern

^

It usually kills IntelliSense in the query pane on my install though.

this

10:01 PM

doesn't changing connection restore it?

I think intellisense can only work with a live connection. Why? Because Microsoft, I guess.

Comintern

Nope. Most of the time once its gone it's done dealing. I just X out panes by habit now.

Not horribly surprising - they can't get the explorer to auto refresh either...

this

you do know about the ctrl + shift + R, right?

Comintern

That's a pretty liberal definition of "auto"...

M.Doerner

I think there is still some horribly low timeout on the IntelliSense.

this

? where's auto?

M.Doerner

10:05 PM

It works very inconsistently for me.

Comintern

@this Oh, I thought you were referring to the Code Explorer requiring manual refreshes.

this

SSMS's "Intelli"sense is hardly automatic. You have to refresh it whenever schema changes.

it's also dumb as rocks. I end up writing SELECT 1 FROM dbo.foo, before proceeding to fill out the select list just so I can get sensible selections to save on the type. (Assuming it's not faster to use the scripting options for some reason)

Comintern

A friend of mine does select lists exclusively by drag and drop. It drives me nuts just watching it.

this

really would like to be able to type SELECT foo.bar| and have it transform to SELECT f.bar| FROM dbo.foo AS f

@Comintern meep! I'd go crazy, too.

Comintern

I could kind of understand it if multi-select worked.

this

10:12 PM

Sure.

but OE is too dumb for that.

it'd have to enable multi-select only within columns.

and I guess the intern responsible for that feature was all "bllllahhhh! too hard!"

Comintern

I frequently delete 4 or 5 entire DBs at a go.

FFS, I think they missed some SQL keywords here:

SELECT u_id3,u_id1,who,operator,[when],[time],duration,[status],what,note,[where],[prio‌rity] FROM

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern wait he does D&D and doesn't know the whole set of columns can be brought in just by dragging the "columns" folder??

Comintern

Oh, that's the only one that he types (*).

Mathieu Guindon

facepalm

this

..... I did not know that.

Comintern

10:18 PM

If I'm cheating, I'll right-click to quick 1000 and delete the ones I don't want.

this

^ do something similar

I ususlly go to the script, though

because the list is different between a SELECT vs. INSERT

Mathieu Guindon

D&D [Columns] doesn't seem to work for custom table types though

must be a "feature"

Comintern

@this It's another level down in the context menu.

Mathieu Guindon

I hate that "script insert" creates a bunch of useless placeholders and VALUES instead of SELECT

this

@Comintern also true but you can just use copy to clipboard. saves the trouble of opening yet another query window

especially if you're writing up a batch

Comintern

10:21 PM

Huh. You can D&D constraints too.

this

@MathieuGuindon IKR? I usually just script INSERT, delete the VALUES part, then scrip SELECT to clibpoard, then paste.

Comintern

It's kind of worthless output, but it drops.

this

then it's fairly quick to adjust the columns.

@Comintern apparently any folders within a table

Mathieu Guindon

TTGH

this

i suppose you can find & replace , into something else

or drop in to a string variable. hooray?

Comintern

10:24 PM

TBH, most of the DBs I work with skip the fancy-pants stuff like indexes, constraints, triggers, stored procedures...

Most programmers are crap database designers.

this

unfortunately

and they consistently are stunned when their application die with a merely 20 people workload

and of course htey'll say "let's go NoSQL!"

Comintern

Yep. The worst are the referential integrity errors though.

I spend way too much time handling those in the code that I write.

this

psssshhhh. I have a degree in programming. I can write me a constraint in code much better than those clowns who has years and years to figure it out!

Comintern

More like "what's a constraint"?

this

followed by "oh, I just do it in code. Easier that way."

Comintern

10:30 PM

Or "that will make the DB connection throw on writes".

this

Remember how users really want an Excel? Well, they (the programmers) want an Excel database.

Comintern

lol

Mathieu Guindon

@this so. true.

Dair

The fact that I don't quite follow the DB discussion leads me to be concerned that I'm a crap database designer haha.

but then again, my first instinct isn't: "let's go NoSQL" so that's good...

this

it mainly boils down to this: if you are not letting the database engine handle the integrity checks or you are writing the integrity checks in your code, then you're Doing It Wrong™.

Dair

10:43 PM

I have never worried about integrity checks... hmmmm... guess I need to review some database design stuff at some point. Fortunately, i'm not working on anything with DBs atm.

this

it's common to see people writing reams of code just to ensure that when you delete an order (for example), all the associated records (e.g. the order details) must be deleted, too.

Dair

oh, so they don't use like an order schema? i.e. they don't have an order table with id, order_time, cost, recipient, seller, ...

this

In a simple order system, you'd typically have an OrderHeader table and a OrderDetail table.

Dair

OrderHeader?

this

The OrderHeader would include the details about the order itself - when it was placed, to whom it was sold, etc. The OrderDetail would be the lines on the order - the product selected, the quantity, the unit price.

Together they form a logical entity "Order" which you might create in code but that doesn't exist in database, of course.

Dair

10:49 PM

hmm, interesting. thanks. I need to take note of that. I would not have thought to separate them.

this

Since an order could have many lines of various products being sold, it's a one-many relationship between the OrderHeader and OrderDetail

so it follows that if you are going to delete the OrderHeader, you want the child OrderDetail records gone, too.

One way to do this from database alone is to have a foreign key constraint with ON DELETE CASCADE, which means that if someone requests a deletion of an order, the engine will automatically delete all the details record for the same parent order.

Dair

and is deleting the OrderDetail where the reams of code come in?

this

Typically yes because they didn't write that foreign key constraint

so they'll write silly code to query the database if there are child records, then delete them one by one or whatever other silliness they can come up with

Dair

So the trick is to do ON DELETE CASCADE... Cool. Really interesting. I probably would have fucked this up a lot too. Although, I would have been suspicious of writing that much code since it seems like a pretty standard op.

Comintern

Which is all fun and games until you have 250 tables.

this

10:53 PM

In a more complicated setup, the validation might be more complex -- in that case, you write a stored procedure instead and code should just call the stored procedure, and tell user what the sprocs says.

The application code has no business monkeying with records directly.

Comintern

@Dair The problem is that coders will now lean on EF or some other ORM to do that, then think it's cool because the "framework" is handling it.

this

it has to treat database as if it was a server -- request data, then display it to user, let user do their thing, then tell the database (via a stored procedure) what the user wants to do.

TBF, most ORM generate crappy database operations

Comintern

^

Dair

LOL

this

If you ever had a project with lot of database work, do yourself a favor, and use micro ORM like Dapper and learn how to normalize the database schema

Otherwise, just use a text file.

Dair

10:57 PM

I asked a question about how to handle SQL queries in python effectively and said that I heard there were lots of problems with ORM and got the response that ORM's being bad was stupid.

Comintern

Dapper is the bomb. I don't need some tool writing crappy SQL for me.

this

@Dair it's because they actually don't know what it's doing.

they see it doing Order.Create() and go OOOO!

when in actuality it's 100000000 RBAR SQL statement

Dair

Not gonna lie, when I did a little DB work, I had no idea what I was doing. The main reason I used an ORM was because writing "stringy" queries seemed super wrong.

Comintern

And the DB is going. F-U.

this

Oh, sure, I get you on the string query. Doing it in application code would be wrong, too.

Comintern

10:59 PM

@Dair With the micro ORMs, it's more like writing the SQL to fill your classes.

this

That's why you want to do it with a stored procedure.

(or view or table-valued function, too)

IMPOV, raw SQL never should go into the application code

Vogel612

@Dair ORMs have the theoretical benefit of allowing you to program without considering the object-relational impedance mismatch

Dair

@Comintern I ended up using SQLAlchemy which feels a lot like this: sqlalchemy.org

this

that's the database's realm and in there it must stay there.

Vogel612

if you need that, sure, use an ORM. If you don't need anything remotely performant and you're happy with keeping dev-time reasonably low, use an ORM

this

11:01 PM

calling a stored procedure enable you to support optimizations of your database without changing your application code.

Vogel612

for everything else, you're better off using native queries or a microORM like Dapper

Dair

Well, good thing I'm not doing any DB atm and I definitely know where to go if I end up doing it again :)

this

> SQLAlchemy's overall approach to these problems is entirely different from that of most other SQL / ORM tools, rooted in a so-called complimentarity- oriented approach; instead of hiding away SQL and object relational details behind a wall of automation, all processes are fully exposed within a series of composable, transparent tools.

If this is true, then that's already much better than most of ORMs out there

Dair

Well then maybe I didn't mess up that badly :P

this

The main problem with ORMs like EF or NHibernate is that you basically get to say "I wanna classes X, Y, Z with so and so properties" and it then makes up all the schema & the SQL queries under a big mess of pasta code

then you write a innocuous looking LINQ query and it chokes, requiring a million reads from the database just to load 10 records.

Vogel612

11:06 PM

and the SQL it generates is hideous to top it all off

this

and it'll be doing it in RBAR manner, too

Vogel612

not only is it downright dumb and nobody can hope to understand it, it's also hideous AF

this

(RBAR = row by agonizing row)

Dair

honestly, if it wasn't for the stringy mess that happens without SQLAlchemy I would prefer to write vanilla SQL stuff.

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label feature-inspections to issue #4849: Code Inspection window section expansion expands all

Dair

11:09 PM

i'm pretty big on the "Right language for the right job"

this

^ and that's why I prefer that they use views & stored procedures.

mansellan

@this For EF I usually go "Code Second" - make the DB separately according to proper normalisation, then use fluent to define the mapping to objects.

Screw that godawful designer thing. I think even MS gave up on it in the end

this

Oh they did?

Dair

the problem was, SO isn't for best practices, and as expected asking the question got downvoted and ridiculed immediately

this would have then required me to develop a small project and ask it on CR.

this

tsk.

Vogel612

11:11 PM

softwareengineering might take that kind of question, actually

take that advice with a grain of salt though

this

but they could have redirected at least

instead of ridculing and downvoting.

Dair

@Vogel612 I might consider doing that later if I have to do DBs again lol.

this

(assuming the question was well asked)

Vogel612

yea, ridicule is flaggable

explicitly violates CoC

downvotes are not really flaggable, unless you have good reason to suspect serial downvoting...

Dair

one of the comments was deleted before I deleted it, iirc I flagged it.

meh, I have to say, technically the question probably wasn't a good fit for SO, but then again, I personally think it was a good question, maybe SoftwareEngineering would be a better place.

I still think there is way too much: "If it works, it's fixed/solved" on SO...

frankly, I would argue that mentality is used too much in all of the field...

this

11:19 PM

they aren't paid to make a masterpiece. they are paid to make something

not saying it's right but that makes it very hard to overcome the bent toward getting things done

Dair

@this I mean dealing with stringy stuff, sure maybe but when performance is critical stuff implodes on itself.

and once it has imploded on itself, you're worse off than square one.

this

hmm IDK - strings in application code typically don't cause performance problems - they are far more likely to cause maintenance problems.

so when the application develop, the cost of adding a feature increases exponentially due to all those stringified representation.

Dair

@this and then you get to the point where you're worse off than square one. :/

this

yep

Dair

really sad.

makes me tired thinking about it.

mansellan

11:29 PM

There's one thing that full ORMs are good at, as opposed to Dapper & co. They can translate an expression tree to SQL. So if, for example, you have an OData service (IQueryable for webservices), they can translate webservice calls to SQL.

this

and why would I need that?

Vogel612

because enterprise, mostly

mansellan

so that users can define their own queries without needing direct DB access

this

i'm sorry I don't follow

it's a web service. Where's the DB access?

Vogel612

you poke the web service on a SOAP endpoint with an XML-defined criteria filter

mansellan

11:33 PM

OK so, let's say the user wants a list of orders, but only for Seattle, ordered by Customer last name, for a certain date range. Are you gonna write a sproc for every possible such permutation, or just allow them to query a REST service?

Vogel612

ORM takes that criteria filter, transforms it into a SQL query, executes that against your DB and returns a result set that can get marshalled to XML

mansellan

@Vogel612 or rest

Vogel612

yea, most REST endpoints expose some way to communicate with them in JSON and XML is straight up more powerful than JSON (and thus can express more complex queries)

this

and this is better than just querying the database because...?

mansellan

so - GET mycompany.com/orders?q=location:Seatle;orderBy=lastName

Vogel612

11:35 PM

but ofc it applies to REST endpoints just as well

mansellan

etc (syntax not correct)

this

I can kind of see why you might want to do this in XML or JSON instead of SQL

Vogel612

@this auditing, caching, abstraction, ...

this

but it still ends up being yet another layer

mansellan

yep. enterprise :-)

useful for public APIs though

Vogel612

11:36 PM

also it allows you to limit the operations exposed

if you expose a database, that's out there. If you expose an API, only the operations implemented by the API are exposed

mansellan

^ (but tbf, so do database perms / views)

this

Ok, that's a bit more useful. We might not want them to write any query willy-nilly.

Vogel612

oh and consider stuff like LDAP / AD credentials or some other way of centrally maintaining credentials and permissions

this

@mansellan True, but at the same time, I don't necessarily want to expose the database schema to the users directly.

(esp. if the users aren't my employees)

a API would add a simple obsfucation

Vogel612

obfuscation doesn't add much value there...

mansellan

11:38 PM

@this yes, that's where its useful. Especially if you can't AD. Friends don't let friends put SQL creds in Access linked tables :-)

Vogel612

it doesn't matter whether you know the DB-schema or the API's contract

FernAndr

how would this look as a fix to github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/issues/4797 ?

this

@Vogel612 No, not certainly by itself but it's useful as part of security in depth

FernAndr

(the top-left box would no longer copy the version information, just clicking on the text would)

Vogel612

@FernAndr #bikeshedding: I'd reduce the distance between copy to clipboard and open in file explorer

also I'd want those two to be somewhat more clearly actionable

this

11:40 PM

^ agreed.

also, I think the gray font isn't helpful

it looks like it's dimmed out?

FernAndr

like a normal hyperlink such as the website one for example?

this

i'm inclined to style it like a button

like the Report an issue

Vogel612

those types of links are commonly styled as hyperlinks though, at least in windows apps

this

yeah, true

Vogel612

so... while a button is semantically more appropriate, convention dictates a hyperlink style

this

11:41 PM

then Report Issue is inconsistent, too, no?

but I like that it's a big green button so it's visible

Vogel612

"Report an Issue" is a call-to-action

this

yeah

I'm fine w/ the hyperlink for those 2, I guess.

FernAndr

no problem, I will do some iterations (but tomorrow)

this

Thanks!

FernAndr

I could also show you the two versions (buttons vs hyperlinks) to compare them

mansellan

11:45 PM

fwiw I think Dapper & co should be known as BYOS (bring your own SQL)

this

@FernAndr if you want to. Otherwise, hyperlinks styled like the other hyperlinks is just peachy. :)

mansellan

imo there's a place for both. potentially even within a single solution. Pick the right tool for the job at hand.

should we have a "Like us?" box, with a "Star us on GitHub" button? Too self-serving?

this

probably should

mansellan

Might help us gain on the "other project" ;-)

1 behind atm :-(

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