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5:37 PM
Wow, it is quiet...
 
@ElendilTheTall i know!
 
hello :)
 
C'mon, surely the only reason this question exists is to cause arguments, right?
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Q: Proper cost of equipment per photo taken

Mr. JeffersonWhat's the approximate cost per photo for an amateur/prosumer photographer, as calculated by (money spent on gear) / (total pictures taken)? I'm currently at between 18 and 20 cents per photo. I have a Canon Rebel T2i with a couple lenses and I use Aperture 3 for editing, so I'd consider myself...

 
@JayLancePhotography its a very odd question
@JayLancePhotography not sure about argumentative, but certainly odd
@Francesco hello
 
and it dismisses the cost of printing and the definition of proper
I felt it was a very strnage question
@rfusca hello :)
 
5:41 PM
@rfusca What is the proper cost? As though there's an answer to the question...
I voted to close as Not Constructive: " this question will likely solicit opinion, debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion."
 
@JayLancePhotography ditto, see my comment
 
He's not an SE noob, so I don't really feel a need to treat the question with kid gloves...
Jay's got his cranky photographer pants on... and is referring to himself in the 3rd person. Must be Monday...
:-)
 
:)
 
lol
 
I have been reading about spot metering but I still am not sure if I have understood
at the risk of showing my ineptitude do you feel answering a very simple question?
 
5:46 PM
spot metering bases your camera's exposure reading off of only a very very small portion (typically in the center) of your frame
 
yes
ok first of all I am shooting manual
 
it doesn't evaluate the whole scene, its just going to exposure properly what you point the camera directly at
 
ok this is how I do it
I decide to shoot something, let's say my wife facing right in front of a white wall in our living room
(the pic was made two minutes ago so I still remember what I did :-) )
I am composing the photo so that my wife is on the left side and is watching towards the right side of the photo
Now the wall has some shadows cast by the sunset
I meter on the shadows so that the exposimeter is at 0
that is I find a combination of iso, shutter speed and aperture which brings the lever at 0
now I keep the values fixed, focus on my wife, lock the focus (or if I want to see how difficult is manual focusing I can add that to the mix :-) ) and I can shoot.
Is this the "correct" way of using spot metering?
the exposimeter is at 0 when the central point is on the shadows, it obviously moves around when it is focusing on my wife or maybe is on the white wall and not on the shadows..
 
well
 
Mmmm... I probably wouldn't fiddle with the ISO as part of the workflow. Generally I find it easiest to set the ISO once at the beginning of a session (or when lighting conditions change radically during a session), then leave it alone.
Then you're only dealing with 2 variable.
 
5:53 PM
depending on the strength of the shadows, you could be way overexposing the rest of the scene
 
@Jay: I must say that I am not very satisfied by my ISO choices indoor
 
the camera is going to try to bring enough light in, to make the shadows properly exposed at grey
 
@Jay I always get grainy images. Maybe I should stop going over 800... :)
@rfusca and what if there isn't a "grey enough" grey in the shoot?
 
Spot metering tends to work best for pictures that have radical changes in light. Like if I'm shooting at a concert and the stage is pitch black- except for the really bright lights pointing at the musician... Then I want the camera to only consider the bright light, not the large areas of darkness...
 
the shadows were not very strong
 
5:56 PM
@JayLancePhotography do you typically shoot all manual, or more like Av?
 
@Jay I was under the misguided interpretation that spot metering was to metering the equivalent of manual with respect to "priority modes"
@Jay because I understand the various concepts of metering but I have the impression that it is something outside of my control
(not that I am good enough to control better than the camera, but when will I be if I let it play its tricks?)
 
@Francesco No. Spot metering is typically overcontrolling a camera that can do a pretty good job of guessing at the proper balance under 'average' conditions. It's only when the conditions move outside of average (such as the scenario I described above) that you rally need to take that control away from the camera.
@rfusca Depends on how fast I need to be shooting. I prefer all manual, but I generally am in Av during large chunks of a wedding when it's more important that I get the shots now. :-)
 
@JayLancePhotography thats what i figured tbh
 
@Francesco Unless you have a specific reason to switch into Spot metering mode you mostly are just working harder than you have to in using it. :-)
 
@Jay ok I was beginning to understand it
 
6:02 PM
With any modern camera body its metering is going to be pretty accurate for your average indoor or outdoor scene using basic evaluative metering.
 
but now let's go back to your example
you have the bright light on the musician
and it's all dark around
so you don't have grey, you have extremes
how do you spot meter it?
 
Most of the time the the thing you want to be perfectly exposed is the musician's face... So that's what I spot meter off of.
 
ok, even if obviously the musician's face is NOT grey.
So what is metering doing? you are telling "I want this kind of lightning to be at the center of my range"
so that the dominant light on the musician face will fall near the middle of the histogram
 
Correct. It's best not to think of metering modes (any of them) as needing a '18% gray surface in order to work correctly.' Metering modes in modern cameras are sophisticated enough that they will work just fine with just about any tone you throw at it...
 
ok this is really helpful
 
6:08 PM
@Francesco as JL says, try to ignore the 'grey' bit of metering and just think of it as 'correct exposure', i.e. the area metered should have detail and texture.
for what it's worth, I use centre-weighted metering 99% of the time.
 
I am in the kind of situation where my fiddling with the settings of the camera leads to a noticeable decrease in quality
:-)
 
Again as mentioned above, try not to fiddle with the ISO
 
and I won't even talk about manual focus or straight horizons.
 
Set it as low as you can to get a decent shutter speed
 
It's OK to let the camera make some of the decisions... Unless you're a hard-core "manual everything or DIE" purist. :-)
 
6:10 PM
where decent shutter is "compatible with my shaking hands"
I guess, no?
 
A good guide is to try and get a shutter speed that's the reciprocal of the focal length.
 
Jay I am a physicist, this skews my point of view I fear :-)
 
Lol. Uh oh. :-)
 
So if you have a 55mm lens, try and get 1/60 shutter speed at least
 
I know several 'manual only' guys and mostly they just drive themselves nuts trying to control every variable manually... Too much work, I say.
 
6:11 PM
Though you have to take into account the crop factor
 
@Elendil this turns out to be more or less good by definition because over 1/50 I usually get shaky pictures
 
@JayLancePhotography exactly... why spend $$$ on a camera with advanced features only to essentially turn them off?
 
Besides, if you're going to control every variable manually then you can't really trust the camera's meter... Time to bust out the external meter and do it the right way. :-)
 
@JayLancePhotography ya, if you're just basing the knobs you turn based on the camera's meter...you might as well let it digitally turn the knobs, eh?
 
Lol. Exaaaactly. ;-)
 
6:13 PM
@rfusca so you had a good star party?
 
ok in any case I will go back to centre weighted metering and will see if my pics improve :-)
 
@ElendilTheTall AWESOME
it was great
 
get some good shots?
 
@ElendilTheTall don't know yet, system to process them is still down :(
it wasn't (only) the motherboard :*(
 
6:15 PM
in all my years running a shop, i never had a CPU die when it wasn't being abused, so its more likely a funky power supply
 
Ah, you haven't got new one yet?
(we've had the CPU/memory/PSU discussion already :D )
 
ya, tried the motherboard this weekend, no change
so there's a PSU on order
 
fingers crossed then
 
indeed
 
so what should you have some good shots of?
 
6:19 PM
@ElendilTheTall scorpio
maybe leo
mostly widefield stuff
 
@rfusca are you using a telescope too?
 
lol
@Francesco right now its just camera only stuff - no prime focus yet
 
There's some nice globular clusters in scorpius IIRC
 
i'm still pretty new to astronomy - i'm not that sure
 
6:24 PM
@rfusca and what mount are you using to track?
 
@Francesco homemade barn door
 
That's GC M4
 
ya, i got to see M3 and M5 through the 18", but not M4
M5 was awesome
 
I got myself all motivated to take shots of the moon
then realised it wouldn't rise til 1.15
and my red squirrel shoot was a bust
hundreds of people wandering around with damn dogs
 
6:28 PM
@rfusca very nice. I have an equatorial mount for my refractor but I still have to mix telescope, mount and camera
 
@ElendilTheTall lol
@Francesco what size refractor do you have? what mount?
 
the refractor is good, the mount not so
 
@Francesco ic
 
the model should be this one
but the mount is undersized in my opinion.
But if I could plug the camera alone on the mount I am sure that the tracking would be good enough
dear all, I have to go. Thanks for your patient answers.
 
@francesco no problem
hope you get some results you like
 
6:42 PM
@Francesco ciao
 
I don't know what to make of the Cathedral shot in this weeks PotW
It's a bit empty
 
eh
ya
 
But then so is mine
 
-1 from me
 
7:02 PM
You cold, man
 
@ElendilTheTall ice cold
i downvote pretty freely on the PotW
 
 
1 hour later…
8:25 PM
Well, one thing that's good about being a really shitty photographer
Only place to go from here is better :)
 
@BillyONeal hahahaha
perhaps
@BillyONeal you could embark upon the journey i did/am once getting my camera. Go through all the different styles/types of photography you can, and see what you like best
forces you to learn alot
 
8:40 PM
@rfusca: That's basically what I'm going to do. Unfortunately, Photo.SE is going to be eating a lot of my failures as a result :)
 
@BillyONeal lol just don't plan on failing
 
@rfusca: Why not? Everyone fails a lot before they can succeed
Failing is just a step in getting better
 
That's loser's talk!
;)
 
planing to fail, and actualy failing because you tried, is different ;)
 
I went straight from knowing nothing to being a god-damn expert overnight
All thanks to the books at my local library
 
8:42 PM
i came out of the womb, perfect - personally
;)
 
Given that I didn't even know what the different settings actually did until maybe two weeks ago, I'm satisfied with how things are going at this point
Need to find a place with a lot of birds though to practice on
 
Seriously though, Billy, one of the best things about digital photography is that even if you do fail 200 times, you can just delete the failures and make no. 201 perfect
 
Yup
"Your first 10,000 photos are your worst", right?
 
Pffft
 
hi
 
8:44 PM
@BillyONeal first 10000, manually exposed film shots....
 
Probably more in my case 'cause I don't think the original speaker had 6 frame per second motor drives in mind when the statement was made, but the point stands nonetheless
 
so probably more like 200k on digital
 
Hello
 
@a-cube hi
 
@ACube hi
 
8:45 PM
how are you guy
 
And if the subject is moving quickly I do plan to make use of that :P
 
this chat about photography or MEMORy
 
lol, photography
 
so you're into wildlife photography billy/
?
 
@ElendilT: Erm.. "into" is a strong word at this point given that I just got the camera Wednesday
 
8:46 PM
I took some pics of he he he ROBINS. But they were messy
 
That's where I'd like to start though
 
good stuff
 
sporadiclogic.blogspot.com
 
what kit have you got?
 
8:47 PM
I have Nokia 6300 LoL
 
way jealous of a D7000
 
Ditto
 
I'm "way jealous" of your eyeballs. Can we trade?
 
Swap? :D
 
8:48 PM
Can I get a voice here!
 
After all, Body < Lens <<< Photographer
 
lol
 
You might have a bit of trouble taking wildlife shots with 105mm
 
@ACube: Of course you can get a voice here
 
I take pictures of Robins
with my cell phone
 
8:49 PM
That sounds painful
 
because until I get my camera they fly away
yup
 
@ElendilT: True. Not much choice I've got at this point though. Decent zooms with longer range start at several more hundred dollars
 
you guys saw the pics right!
 
Body < Lens ....mostly, but modern bodies can play a bigger role than folks like to admit. With film, the body didn't matter at all, so there was this whole 'cheapest body, best glass' thing going on. But unless you're shooting in ideal conditions, the body matters with digital
 
E.g. $600 for a cheap one, $2000 for a good one
@rfusca: That's why I ended up going with this one. That and the fact that I played with the D5100 and decided I'd break that screen off in about .2 seconds
 
8:50 PM
@BillyONeal seriously, some of the 70-300mm zooms are perfectly fine for non-pro work, esp. with a good high iso camera like the D7000
 
Yeah these are taken from another camera! no cell phone!
 
@ACube cool
 
Hmm.. might be something to think about
 
8:52 PM
You've got a decent enough lens to try all sorts of stuff anyway
 
those are parent robins feeding baby robins
 
you might find you actually prefer landscape work or portraits
so no rush
 
Unfortunately at this point I spent pretty much everything (and then some) on the camera itself. I'm going to play with what I've got at this point
 
are you guys talking to me?
 
ACube: What do you expect us to say? You've not asked anything or otherwise solicited replies, other than "look at these pictures"
Are you looking for a critique or something else?
 
8:54 PM
|SO|RRY|
 
@ElendilTheTall concert, macro, astro
 
@BillyONeal That's what I just said :D
@rfusca yup
I used my 18-55 kit for a year and got plenty of decent shots
first lens I bought was 35mm f/1.8
 
Same here, when I used my grandmother's D40 last
 
just wanted to know how the pics came out! were they descent or way bad
 
i picked up a 50mm f/1.4 pretty quick cuz I figured out I like portrait
 
8:55 PM
in retrospect I think I would have preferred a 50 rather than 35
 
@ACube: Well, I can't comment because as we have already discussed, I'm a crappy photographer (because I'm really new)
 
ok
 
but taking into account the crop factor the 35 is just ok for portraits
and is good for street photography
 
@ACube brutally honest...i can't see the bird in half of them, they're really low contrast, and when the bird is there its tiny
 
with that on the D5000 is almost the same size as a bridge
 
8:57 PM
@ElendilTheTall love my 50mm
 
@BillyONeal do you have any shots to show us?
 
Thanks all for the inputs! Appreciate them all!
 
@rfusca I like my 35mm
the quality difference from the kit is nucking futs
 
@ACube feel free to post actual pics here (not just a link) and ask for a more details review
 
These are my pics mate!
 
8:58 PM
@ElendilTheTall lol ya, its just insane between the kit and the Sigma 50mm
 
Sorry.. had to switch boxes
 
how to post pics here!
 
@ACube im saying if you want more of a real review, pick your best one, post it (the upload button) in the chat (not just a link), and ask for a review
 
8:59 PM
@a-cube either upload or paste the image link straight in
 

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