The Back Room: Live Tabletop Games

Iszi

12:19 AM

"group power selection"? Now that should be an interesting bit.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes

Iszi

12:32 AM

Hmm... where's C. Ross when you need him? Was wanting to consult with him on the backgrounds for the Elf, since he was the last person to write for the character.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:45 AM

Dude, it's in your hands :)

Go for it :)

the point of the rotation is that narritive control passes

if you have a direction you want to take the elf, take it.

Iszi

Agreed, but it's always nice to have the input - if not blessing - of a predecessor.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

true.

Iszi

1:04 AM

Argh... why can't this question be as smooth and easy as my other experiences with CS?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

?

Iszi

The "involuntary movement of mount/rider" issue.

I've posted their responses, and can't really find fault in them.

However, at the same time, I'd like to know exactly how the CS rep arrived at his conclusions.

So, I wrote back saying as much.

A different CS rep got the ticket this time, and just shortly wrote back with a page reference to the Mounted Combat rules in the RC - which of course, I have already been through quite thoroughly.

This, being evidenced by my inclusion of the book name and applicable pages in my initial request!

So, now I feel like I've got to write back and explain to them the concept of "Teach a man to fish."

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes.

Welcome to cust-serv hell

and now? lunch.

or breakfast... depending on which measuring methodology one uses

and how the expletive did I gain 150 rep overnight?

Iszi

I may or may not have had a hand in it.

Randomly decided to go for the Suffrage badge today.

RMorrisey

1:30 AM

@Than Very cool. Thanks for dropping by =) We've barely started with it, since we're still in character creation, but it looks sharp

Iszi

2:47 AM

OMG, I can't believe this. CS just wrote back to my question for clarification on their answers, and all they said was "those are rules as written" without actually quoting any rules text.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Yup.

Corresponds to what I've heard.

Iszi

3:08 AM

sigh People just don't know who they're dealing with, when they give crappy support like this.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yup

Iszi

And I used to speak very highly of WotC CS.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hehehe

Iszi

Let's just say, my next e-mail response is probably going to be at least as long as Master Chief's backstory.

And, followed up by a phone call.

It's one thing to get crappy support. But to see a good support center go bad, pisses me off in a very special way.

I promise I'll flesh out the rest of the Elf's background after this.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::nod::

would solicit your feedback on the encounter I gave

it feels a bit strong for an encounter, but a bit weak for a daily

Iszi

3:44 AM

Encounter?

Something in the doc?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

um

answer, actually

5

Q: Modelling an army squadron: assigning players control of minions in 4e to simulate a larger group

In the chat playtest my players have decided that they are members of an army squadron. What is the best way to present the feel of working in a squad alongside other soldiers? Nominally, I'd like the rest of the squad to be present at encounters, as minions that players can somehow order around...

Iszi

(Sorry. Still writing to WotC. I can BCC you if you're interested.)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

no thanks :)

Iszi

Yeah, didn't figure you'd want to spend the time reading. I'm well into page 2, just defining my expectations - I haven't even gotten to spelling out the actual questions (again) for them.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Good luck :)

Iszi

3:48 AM

One problem with the Encounter power.

If the purpose of the Soldier is to add to our forces, the soldier's attack/charge action should probably be re-written so that it does not cost the PC a Standard Action.

Maybe a minor?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

eh?

oh damn, did I say standard?

I did

no, it should be minor

better?

Iszi

4:09 AM

I presume the minion's attack is vs. AC? Are there any bonuses to this attack, or is it a bare roll?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

there we are

thank you for these questions

Iszi

May want to change the wording to "Attack bonus is (level)+5, vs. AC" otherwise the phrasing could be mistaken to say there is no roll.'

...unless that's your intent.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

huh...

Iszi

Also, does the minion inherit skill bonuses as well?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

let me see how it's done in the actual powers

better?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

4:35 AM

and the fact that it's a level 2 utility means that it's less of a direct power boost than it could be.

though minor action attacks are always pretty obscene power boosts.

Iszi

Are we starting at level 1 then?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yeah

And I think the first encounter will be a level 3 or so. Challenging, but not TPK.

Iszi

Oh, backstory for the encounter if you don't have one already...

(Explains the lack of minions)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Got one :)

Iszi

Oh, ok.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

4:41 AM

You guys are advanced scouts on the road.

Iszi

Cool.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Basically $King is moving the regiment in to reinforce whatever the damn town is called on the edge of the chaos scar

You guys, because your commander isn't an idiot, are sanitizing the road, cause you're travelling through injun country. Your main job is to "try to survive any ambush long enough so that one person can report back"

And, because you're the 5th Regiment, your CO doesn't even bother dressing up the language.

Isn't it /fun/ being expendable sniper bait?

Not, of course, that I'd ambush you... :)

Iszi

Aye, especially when we has counter-sniper.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Would I do that?

::grin::

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:02 AM

aaargh, can't expletive concentrate!

Oh

Sohum, posted the text from the book about the wits.

Please post something /interesting/ so I can give you the gorram bounty?

Cause I really dislike both of the extant answers.

Sohum

working on it

also holy crap it is 5 pm

also

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Distract me!

yes, it is.

and I haven't gotten nearly enough done

You're in canberra, yeah?

Sohum

I thought that the party was the squad?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

party is squad, but 6 is too small.

Sohum

"small-unit tactics"

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:06 AM

I want an army feel

and having people for reinforcements... has it?

but I won't force anyone to take the utility power

Sohum

mm. fair enough, if that's the feel you're going for

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Basically, I'm using this to test the feel

Sohum

I reserve the right to steal that backstory and have it be the best you-all-meet-in-a-bar ever, though

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

if it doesn't work, I'm seriously not going to be picky.

what?

"I was a minion tagging along behind this bunch of idiots, and I decided to be a PC instead?"

Sohum

no

like

I thought the backstory

was a really convenient and clever way

of throwing together an arbitrary party

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:08 AM

oh, I /really/ like the motif it presents

and will almost certainly steal it for games

Sohum

in a way where the characters are forced to work together

Iszi

Holy crap.... it's 2 AM, and 5 pages later...

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

because hey, x isn't here this game? he's off scouting. shut up and soldier.

Sohum

yea, exactly.

the best you-all-meet-in-a-bar ever

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Oh hey, new soldier. Why were you thrown in with us? Who'd you piss off?

yeah

I /also/ like it as the playtest venue, cause it'll have consistent party despite character cycling.

good early afternoon, Iszi :)

Sohum

6:10 AM

mmmhm, yea

hey Iszi

Iszi

headdesk

Just got done writing a 5-page e-mail to WotC CS, and I still haven't done my character background work.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

ummm

Good.... job? :)

Sohum

gah

Iszi

I just hate being given crap from people I know can do better.

Sohum

okay, so I need to, in order of decreasing priority

a) head home

b) wrestle with dbus

q) write other char background

m) dance the monkey dance

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:12 AM

hrmmm

Sohum

v) answer brian's question

and z) finish my bloody assignment

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hahahaha

I in many ways recommend the 'and now for something completely different" approach to the second two backgrounds

Sohum

(note: this is priority as calculated experientially - i.e., "this is what I must think the priority is given my actions so far")

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yesyes

Sohum

yea, I've been trying to think of something different

shardminds are /hard/

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:14 AM

secret poet?

artist?

Sohum

hahaha

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

cage fighter?

/Farmer/

Iszi

Oh, sonovacrap!

Sohum

I already feel I've stepped way too much on the "I MUST TEST MYSELF RAAR" bit by making him have a "family" he's looking for

Iszi

Remind me never to copy-paste from Word to Thunderbird again.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:15 AM

Farmer who wants a baseball field?

Never copy-paste from word to thunderbird

Ever

hrmm

Shardmind who wants power....

Sohum

(oh, there we go, I apparently understood RMorrisey's intention correctly: "When I wrote the theme I wrote in the "unorthodox, small-unit" (i.e. party-sized) tactics as part of the deal. We got picked by lottery to get thrown into the grinder without backup, to see if we could live through it. We might occasionally get support from other units in exceptional circumstances. ")

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

oooh

recent life" explorer of the ancient"

basically he was a tomb robber before being forced into the army

Sohum

ooooh

yes

something in that period

that he did

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

look up "pivotal events"

Sohum

that... he thought was an unorthodox but worth-trying method of gaining power

will do!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:20 AM

also check out stuff from #389

Sohum

okay, time to get started on (a)

bbiab

Iszi

6:33 AM

Okay, got a half-hour before I'm cutting myself off, to flesh out two backgrounds.

Glad I picked easy ones.

Remind me, did we ever get a name for this land that we're in?

Sohum

6:48 AM

Don't think so

go ahead and establish it!

Iszi

Bleh, I'm horrible with names. Used the D&D generator for Zankul's.

Sohum

I honestly don't know where "Nolotov" came from

sounds vaguely russian while also sounding like a molotov cocktail

Hm. "Grasteria"?

Iszi

Interesting... sure.

Would it be too much to inquire of the name of the king/

?

Sohum

no, that's awful

Grasteria is awful

the hell was I thinking

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Just a second

looking up what's known about the chaos scar

Iszi

7:00 AM

Oh, and I'm putting Therin in just a shade of trouble.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/chaosscar

Hrmmm

I think I'm .... hrmmmm

Githzerai King Richard

Kingdom had a mongols into china invasion a couple generations back.

Hrmmm

Kingdom of Nahminga

Royal Monarchy, Despotic rather than constitutional, but still quite a nice place to be. Good bureaucracy, mostly city-based governance. Richard acts like hobbes Leviathan, making sure that those who want anarchy, themselves, live nasty, brutish and above all, short lives.

Iszi

So... "King Richard of Nahminga" would be appropriate, then?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Chinese organized, with the whole mandarin thing and everything.

Yes.

Technically he's an emperor, but he's never bothered with that.

And of course, I'm also evoking a bit of Shakespeare's Richards here.

Chaos scar is a trouble spot, so he founded a town to basically keep it penned in, and sends army units to garrison the town and ... contain it.

He.... is actually a fairly dedicated worshipper of Erathis.

wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/duad/20100323

is the town you'll be "garrisioning"

Of course, the /other/ troops get to stay in town

you folks are... troubleshooters.

Or rather, your commander is hoping that trouble will shoot at you..

Iszi

Wow... I just realized what a Dick the king is...

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

heh.

He... allows exactly one joke like that per person.

Sohum

7:11 AM

exactly one?

So he executes people who haven't made the joke yet?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hehehehehe

hehehhe

only when he's feeling literal.

Your ultimate commander will be Lord Drysdale

Your captain is just The Captain

Iszi

Perhaps we should make a short Character Roster with these details, in Google Docs.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

You are absolutely welcome to do so :)

Iszi

Only got energy enough to make a blank right now. I'll fill in details later.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

works :)

Iszi

7:18 AM

Done and sent.

And, my work on Therin is done for the night as well.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

cool

Iszi

See you guys tomorrow... or, later today... or... whatever you want to call it.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

eventually :)

au revoir

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

8:53 AM

Argh, I really want to put another answer into the inclusive thing by saying "make it more inclusive by playing up discrimination..."

Cause that, while true, is also flamebait.

Sohum

11:18 AM

Deadline: 2200.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

um

RSN

Sohum

second last commit: 215916

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

0001Z is I think... midday tomorrow?

no, 10 AM tomorrow, for us

Sohum

last commit: 220439. message: "one line change after deadline! please don't mark us down"

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

but I will be most grumpy if I have to drop players.

Sohum

11:19 AM

THIS IS NOT YOUR DEADLINE BRIAN HUSH

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

.... oh

::laughs::

wait, you grading this?

Sohum

my lecturer is

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

what are the commit numbers?

oh, hhmmss?

Sohum

yep.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Have they been a good group?

Sohum

11:20 AM

group of two, and yea, he's been pretty good

no complaints

though I have a lot of complaints about the lecturer

and specifically his attitude about trying to screw us over as much as humanly possible

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

ugh

Then yeah, I'd let the 4 minute commit slide

Sohum

EXHIBIT A: when you send data to a usb device via control messages, you usually send it in the appropriately named "data" section of the packet. The device that we have to code against, (which was programmed by our lecturer), for some godforsaken reason uses the "value" and "index" sections of the packet instead.

EXHIBIT B: Value and Index are two bytes each, and the documentation just states that it "takes four bytes as input". So you'd expect Value = bytes 1 and 2, Index = bytes 3 and 4, right? WRONG. Value = Byte 2 << 8 | Byte 1, Index = Byte 4 << 8 | Byte 3.

EXHIBIT C: The preferred and easy way to expose properties of a device in the filesystem is via sysfs. The deprecated and difficult way is via /dev. Guess which one he prefers?

EXHIBIT D: The extra credit sections contains three things. Two of which are utterly trivial, and one of which requires learning an entirely new subsystem of linux and its associated configuration.

FINAL NOTE: None of this has anything to do with the nominal topic of the course!

/me RAEG

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

11:43 AM

... gnaah

Sohum

so do Shardminds fall in love?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I dunno, you tell me

Sohum

like, canonically

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

no data

Sohum

hmmm.

that "they don't feel much, but what they do feel they FEEL" thing is so convenient yet awkward and difficult to deal with

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

11:54 AM

oh yeah. So they LOVE

but not "reaonsable love"

and they... ugh. um

[redacted by virtue of channel rating]

Sohum

yea...

we have a channel rating?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

let's not explore the ... darker side of shardmind... "love"?

PG-13

by fiat

Sohum

huh.

fair enough.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

You read ringo's book Ghost?

Sohum

don't think so

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

11:56 AM

it's 11 and I'm still at uni

okay, need to do work.

back... whenever it's done

Sohum

kk, ta

Sohum

1:41 PM

I may actually be the longest this time

also I'm not quite sure how well it works, or even makes sense

(it = Rihkim's You Kill)

Iszi

2:05 PM

@BrianBallsunStanton @Sohum I've come to the conclusion that Shardmind's don't procreate, and therefore the traditional function of "falling in love" would no longer be necessary. My reasoning is that since they are all pieces of the Living Gate, there would presumably be a finite number of physical bodies.

However, the lore of this race is - to my knowledge - not very well fleshed-out.

Kedearian

8:25 PM

i think i turned squeaky into a psychopath.

@iszi you dont need to procreate to love, they could just enjoy each others companionship on a purely intellectual level. You know, like those ann rice vampire books you read.

C. Ross

:7075 More tortured soul than psychopath

I have to admit, just the character creation phase has been fun

all collaborative and what not

Kedearian

yeah, i didnt really think about what i was typing when i wrote it, was just doing it in the background and then like a page popped out of no where, and he's a bit cracked.. which is fun for a seemingly "carefree bard"

C. Ross

8:45 PM

indeed

Sohum

9:33 PM

@Iszi Oh, I'm pretty sure shardminds wouldn't procreate. Still, they are sentients, and... /me waves his arms - I'm going to go ahead and assume that somehow they're similar to other sentients except when they're not.

@Kedearian wait, what? Wasn't Squeaky raised in an orphanage? In a city?

C. Ross

:7084 I think there may indeed be an inconsistency ...

Kedearian

9:52 PM

was he? i missed that

i wasn't sure if all the backgrounds had to fit that or if they were alternate options

besides, he could have gone to the orphanage after that, no?

Sohum

nah

the Birth:Blessing sign has a Sister at the orphanage who found him at their doorstep

which means he was still a baby when he was left with them

Kedearian

damn you're right

i could change it to the orphanage that get's sacked... but that seems like a lot of bad for one person

Sohum

and I'd ask @BrianBallsunStanton on whether the backgrounds have to be consistent or if they're options

but I'd suggest that they have to be consistent

Kedearian

the way i read it as they were options

since he said "two more options" in 4c

Sohum

if only because asking someone to reject stuff you wrote is harsh

Kedearian

10:02 PM

oh no he didnt

"Choose 2 more backgrounds for the character below."

so i guess i do need to redo it.. pooh

Sohum

yep.

Sorry, man :(

You have an hour!

Kedearian

an hour? i thought i had a day

Sohum

...maybe? timezones confuse me

current GMT is Oct 22 22:06

so you have two hours

Kedearian

bleh

Kedearian

10:28 PM

i had to get the gnome bard.. i loathe bards, and gnomes are my least liked race in dnd.

Sohum

man, I got the shardmind

you would not believe how difficult shardminds are

Kedearian

i had that previously

atleast i could find some direction for that... this gnome tho.. it feels pretty much done, any other background i add is polishing brass on the titanic

Iszi

@Sohum Oh, there's plenty to do with Shardminds, I think - the lack of authoritative lore on them can work both ways: for or against you.

Sohum

@Kedearian yea, but then you took all the direction for them

@Iszi maybe >_< I don't work well unless there's something for me to riff off

Kedearian

took, like stole huh?

Sohum

10:37 PM

:P

I wouldn't say that..

and I wouldn't quite say that Rihkim feels done, per se

Kedearian

you italicized took

Sohum

but it's similar

I was emphasising?

it's like, that's all the direction that exists for shardminds

everything else is a big blank slate

Kedearian

yeah, like saying you /took/ my car with out asking so i call the police to /look/ for it and /take you to a nice palce/

Sohum

...no, like saying that the direction doesn't exist anymore because you took them

emphasis does not necessarily equal sarcasm

Kedearian

pfft

does too

Sohum

10:39 PM

does not

Kedearian

too

Sohum

go work on your bard

Kedearian

background : Suicide - he found out he was a bard and hung himself with is lute... then rerolled a cleric

Iszi

@Kedearian hehe.

Kedearian

who wrote that.. never become a bard.. that's just wrong.

Iszi

10:58 PM

Good news. Seems WotC CS finally got the message and all is made better.

(See chat history from last night - Eastern Time - for reference.)

By the way, ignore my mentioning of any Shard Slayer background. Somehow I had the wires crossed in relation to the God Shard background.

Sohum

I was wondering...

C. Ross

:7140 Can you link to it or bookmark it?

Sohum

@Kedearian aren't bards Arcane casters?

C. Ross

@Iszi I like the background stuff you wrote for Therin

Kedearian

11:13 PM

sohum - he is still able to use the magic stuff, it just feels a little ackward

Sohum

nonono

maybe he doesn't know

the bard stuff just comes naturally to him

Kedearian

that works as well

Sohum

he doesn't know it's magic

also, a request to everyone

if you're not going to write a comment from your current viewpoint character on a particular background

mind removing the bullet?

Iszi

@CRoss Thanks.

@CRoss About last night, the messages are actually interspersed between a lot of unrelated chat so I'll not try to link it.

C. Ross

I see that browsing the transcript

Iszi

11:21 PM

Long story short, I sent some questions to WotC the other day to address the "Involunatary Movement of Mount and Rider" issue.

While the answers I received were clear and agreeable, I still wanted more detail as to how the RAW translated to the given rulings.

C. Ross

did they reply?

Iszi

The response I got just told me to review rule pages which I'd already told them about.

So, I wrote a one-page reply so that it would be made clear that I had in fact read all applicable rules and I would like the CS rep to actually review the Incident history so that he would understand what rules I have read and the questions I had.

His response was short, and included a quote from my original e-mail.

Question: I would like to know if all of these conclusions are intended to be taken as logical inferences in absence of specific rules, or if they are actual rule-supported findings.
Answer: These are the rules as written in that section. If there is any specific rule you're having a problem with, feel free to write back with any questions you have and we'll be more than happy to answer them!

Note that no response to this point has actually quoted any rules, and therefore by definition cannot be "rules as written".

Finally, the response to my 5-page reply had enough meat to it to be acceptable.

C. Ross

hmmmm

Transcript for

The Back Room: Live Tabletop Games