ugh, so Oxygen Not Included stuff again (figured I wouldn't flood the main room with it) I broke my anti Entropy Thermal Nullifier via putting too much heat in the room,... I thought I could store iron that just came out of a volcano in there and I didn't realize it had such a low heat threshhold for breaking,... and it's the main way to get rid of heat

so in other words I R Dum

everything else is going extremely well, I even have an oil setup that doesn't bring the heat of the oil biome anywhere I care about, and doesn't scorch my Dupes or drown them in oil or any of that horrible stuff

but it's very frustrating for that particular building to be broken in that particular way :/

and I am not quite sure how to fix the problem

@BESW Thanks for diong your best with our new and frequently frustrated member. I found (on a read through this morning) your usual helpful nature in play, and was shaking my head at the response. But as regards some of your previous observations on how using the SO engine anything to do with community, you may be interested to see this observation

@BESW Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky were so taken by Clay Shirky’s fundamentally anti-community notion that “a group is its own worst enemy” that they built the entire structure of the site around its ideas, and even brought Shirky on as a member of SE’s Board of Advisors

So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that over the past 10 years, we’ve seen SE slowly chipping away not only at our communities, but at the fundamental notion of the legitimacy of those communities and the bonds that tie them together This is from a 2008 era SO-SE veteran

@BESW Caveat- it is a piece of commentary on Christianity.SE that has to do with latest hot opic on Meta SE, so the whole post/thread may not be of much interest to you.

The Shirky Meditation is here though I suspect that you are already familiar with it.

Anyhoo, if you find that to be of interest, great, and I'll say thanks again for trying to be helpful to our new and frustrated member ... I am finding it very difficult to be helpful while engaging ...

@trogdor You need structures whose express purpose is to delete heat. Most of the "pre-steel" methods are kind of wonky, but they mostly involve heating up gasses or fluids before dumping them into generators.

Obviously AETNs are very good in the mid game for that exact purpose.

AETN's should be repairable with refined metal.

As for removing the heat in that room, you could pump some pwater or hydrogen through radiant pipes to absorb the heat and store it elsewhere.

Also, AETNs aren't the main way for getting rid of heat.

They're a pretty accessible and low-cost method of heat removal, but a turbine + aquatuner set-up is far better at heat removal.

@Yuuki Yes, although personally I wasn't able to find a viable way to do this pre-steel.

I think you can use gold amalgam for the tuner. Gold increases overheat temperature by a good amount.

Oh yeah, iron volcano taming.

@Yuuki Only by 50C though, right? 75C base, 125C with gold, and 125C is the bare minimum of what a turbine can drive.

hmmm

Or does the Aquatuner have a higher base heat capacity than other machines?

Base 125C.

Ooooh.

So yeah, 175C would be feasible.

Neither my Cooler nor my Copper Volcano run hotter than 130C, so that probably works fine.

@Yuuki Doesn't that just move heat somewhere else though?

Cause I've used aquatuners before and they cool the liquid really well but they output ridiculous heat in the area, and I always end up with them eventually damaging themselves

@trogdor No, the turbine actually deletes a portion of the heat in the steam it takes as input.

@trogdor Do you place them in a bath of water or something?

Oh the steam turbines

@Yuuki I don't,... I never thought to do that

Hmm

That's actually extremely helpful

Yeah, place them in a bath of water. You have a closed coolant loop with the aquatuner at one end and whatever you want to cool at the other end.

I don't have power issues but more of it from a steam turbine couldn't hurt either

The turbine + aquatuner setup isn't power-efficient, you're never going to generate power unless you have some outside heat input, but you're basically spending power for heat deletion.

Which, in general, is a good trade.

Well like I said I don't have power issues atm so

Yeah that's still a good trade

^Just FYI

So you run some insulated pipes between your aquatuner and the thing you want to cool. Then you have radiant pipes running through the thing you want to cool. And then you just fill the loop with some kind of coolant. Typically, this is polluted water.

I have two natural gas geysers hooked up to a lot of gas storage which feeds my power and stores at least enough for me to last when the geysers are not producing

The coolant picks up heat from the target and then the aquatuner takes that heat from the coolant and applies it to itself.

And you close the loop in that?

That doesn't cause issues?

And the aquatuner disperses the heat to its water bath, eventually converting it to steam, which the turbine takes as input.

Also why polluted water specifically?

Polluted water has a better temperature range than regular water.

Aaahh ok

It stays liquid at a lower temperature than regular water.

So you run less risk of cold damage in your pipes.

Just like how hydrogen is way better than oxygen for cooling

The turbine generates some power from the steam (generally not enough to re-coup how much you spent on the aquatuner but a fair amount), deletes some heat, and then outputs 95C water.

The turbine output water is then piped back into the water bath to absorb more heat from the aquatuner.

That's pretty neat

I have trouble setting up steam turbines to generate power anyway

You probably want to run your coolant loop through your turbine, because the turbine does absorb some heat in the process, but that's solvable elsewhere.

Knowing a heat deletion setup using them is pretty useful

@trogdor Steam turbines, funnily enough, kinda suck for power generation in ONI.

Yeah

About the only way you'll generate power from them is geothermal via magma and that can be risky to set up.

Cause you need more heat than you can efficiently generate for them, and you need to get them a source of water too

Yeah I thought of magma

But that's like

Water is fine because there's 100% mass conservation in the power generation.

I don't even know how that would be safely accomplished

So you only need enough to get started.

Fair enough

@trogdor Normally, it involves two layers of metal tiles with a layer of mechanized airlocks in between.

Still sounds risky to build in the first place

Yeah.

Also even with atmo suits

Dupes probably get at least scorched building that

Many a dupe has been scorched setting up geothermal steam power.

And any ladders to go down probably need to be like, obsidian

And your reward is just power generation

Which you can get sooo many ways

Right now I actually have too much hydrogen and I can probably just build a hydrogen generator for more power

I should build a self-cooling SPOM.

Right now, I'm sending my oxygen output to a cooling room but I think I can make one that's self-cooling.

I've not been on top of my heat production

That's why I set up the AETN in the first place

But then I got dumb and put all that extremely hot iron in there

I didn't think AETN's had an overheat temp

Or if they did I expected it to be pretty high because thier while job is supposed to be heat removal

But I have more water of all types than I know what to do with so I think I can just pump some over the machine and let it fall down into my main water area

Well, the main polluted water one which is only being pumped into areas where I want a little heat anyway

I can't remember if you can delete heat with agriculture.

Using it for Pincha pepper

You can sorta

Worts do it

Albeit slowly

Well, I meant more like pumping hot water as input.

And it costs phosphorus

Ah

But plants have a temperature tolerance too.

Not sure yeah

They do but Pincha likes it kinda hot

As far as heat deletion goes, I think the power scale/progression is wheezeworts -> AETN -> steam turbine.

Yeah

(extra credit: literally yeet all your hot gases into outer space)

I haven't thought of the steam turbine as a powerful heat deletion tool

Lol

True

Space vacuum is good for that too but you have to waste resources to delete heat that way

I had considered it on a map where I had two cool slush geysers fairly close to each other.

And you also have to make sure what you are throwing out is absorbing a lot of heat and holding it till it goes

Pump them through my base and industrial sectors and then literally vent them into the atmosphere.

Ah Man so lucky

You can also use the Ice Maker to delete heat.

I wish I had one of those but I've found like 8 water producing geysers and the coolest ones I have are cool steam vents and a salt water vent and one polluted water vent

They are all still pretty hot

Honestly

Yeah. Cool steam vents are pretty good sources of water though.

Yeah

I think the only cold geysers are cool slush and carbon dioxide geysers (not vents).

It's working for me on aggriculture at least

Cool slush basically completely fueled my last base

Carbon dioxide geysers can be really useful but you have to be careful with them because they output liquid carbon dioxide.

Until I had piled up so many mistakes that I had to give up on that one

At least cool slush can be easily managed with a water sieve.

Yeah

But a runaway carbon dioxide geyser can make breathing untenable.

It was actually my only water source

But I had space opened up and had infinite regolith

So filtration medium wasn't a problem

Infinite Gas/Fluid storage: valuable tool, or broken exploit?

I mean, I would love that

But basically you can store a lot already

Given how it's accomplished, I'd considered it an exploit.

@Yuuki I mean, it is an exploit, I'm just asking how people feel about it.

You just need to commit time, space, and metal to storing stuff

You're basically taking advantage of the fact that gases and liquids can't occupy the same tile.

Oh you mean an actual existing exploit

Yep.

@trogdor Yeah.

You can flood Liquid Reservoirs, right?

Liquid is really easy, you just need to surround a pentamino 'b' block with mechanized airlocks, put a vent at the top and a pump in the middle, lock all the doors, and boom: infinite liquid storage.

I think for gases you use airflow tiles instead of mechanized airlocks, the vent is at the bottom, and you have a tiny layer of some fluid in the tile with the vent.

I try not to do exploit stuff

I feel like the game is the perfect level of challenge for me as is

IE just slightly too hard to ever be too comfortable XD

Imagine a dupe walking into an infinite gas storage room though.

> Popped Eardrums Asploded Head

Lol

Ded

Gonna try to implement that heat fix now

And it's a lot of heat but only for a small space

The AETN is all fixed up and not overheated anymore

Thanks for the suggestions