Not a bar, but plays one on TV

trogdor

12:02 AM

that is entirely fair

brug

@Gwideon Don't feel bad. It's very ugly out there. I couldn't take it anymore either.

BESW

> You are allowed to be tired.
You are allowed to be out of spoons.
You are allowed to finally be fed up and say "nope"
https://twitter.com/MsTwstd/status/1184365421388058624

trogdor

^ this

all this stuff

BESW

Dec 5 '16 at 22:36, by BESW

The Aggressive Self-Care Coloring Book.

trogdor

12:29 AM

❤️

user15026

@BESW SMALL FRIENDS!

user15026

@Gwideon Get some good rest, if you can, dear friend.

Xirema

I found a much more productive way to spend the rest of the evening than arguing with trolls on the internet. I took some homemade chili, heated it up, baked some fries, dumped the chili, some american cheese, onto the fries; fried up a veggie burger, and now that's my dinner.

Shalvenay

@Xirema chili fries :D

take it 'twas a bean chili btw? (inferring that from the veggie burger)

Xirema

@Shalvenay Yeah. I used a vegetarian burger crumble substitute in the chili, but it's mostly beans, veggies, and crushed tomatoes.

Shalvenay

12:42 AM

@Xirema btw: if you want a killer chili ingredient: fresh tomatoes :D

Xirema

@Shalvenay Will have to consider it. I blend up tomatoes all the time when I'm making Pizza Sauce.

Gwideon

@Ash I will

BESW

I'm gonna walk to the gas station for lunch siopao, bang out a new file configuration for a client, study a couple chapters of Breezes of Confirmation with a friend, poke some marketing design work, and maybe try to write a bit for the Safety Jam.

@Xirema Also: a bit of dark chocolate does wonderful things for chili.

Shalvenay

@BESW yes, cocoa in chili is tasty as well

I've been wondering what a chili made entirely using spices, vegetables, (and meats, if you roll that way) from the Western Hemisphere would be like...

user15026

@Xirema that sounds amazing

user15026

12:52 AM

@BESW I need to try to make siopao someday.

Xirema

@BESW ........ Huh. How much cocoa powder would you recommend using for a gallon of chili?

MikeQ

@Shalvenay Didn't chili peppers originate in the western hemisphere?

Shalvenay

1:06 AM

@MikeQ aye, peppers and tomatoes both

BESW

1:18 AM

@Xirema Two to four tablespoons, depending on how much meat-like flavours you've got going? The goal is to not taste the actual chocolate, but to have it give depth to everything else.

Xirema

@BESW I guess that's something to try next time I make Chili.

BESW

When I make chili I don't use much meat-flavored stuff so I don't use a lot of cocoa.

V2Blast

3:36 AM

@Xirema ...I've already had dinner but now I want to eat this anyway.

Derpy

12:49 PM

Afternoon. Just a little question - anyone here has image editing experience? Just needing a suggestion.

Carcer

what kind of image editing

I have some crude photoshopping under my belt

Derpy

in Sugarcube Corner, 1 hour ago, by Derpy

Trying to edit this so that the line "GENIE HERO" reads "GENIE DEV" instead

NautArch

@Xirema Not sure if you make your own chili powder, but I really really like the Mexene brand if you can get it.

Derpy

But... I MAY have found a way with GIMP

(or to be more precise, b_jonas may have suggested one)

Gwideon

1:39 PM

hello

Derpy

2:05 PM

Afternoon

GcL

2:18 PM

@Derpy Was it crop out original text. Add your own. Rasterize the text layer. Select by color to get the text. Grow selection by some pixels to make the selection bigger, then Selection>border with 1 or 2 pixel wide. Fill in the resulting selection to get that nice line around the text. ?

Derpy

@GcL yep basically what I have done. My initial error was to try to use Paint.net instead.

Should have used GIMP from the start.

GcL

Nice.

Xirema

@NautArch I've been using the stock chili powder they sell at Aldi, but I'm not especially in love with any specific brand, so I'm perfectly willing to try a few variants.

NautArch

2:43 PM

@Xirema I use it for my chilis and my bbq rubs. It's made a difference to me.

Gwideon

3:33 PM

so how is everyone

Xirema

3:43 PM

@Gwideon I'm staring at reddit posts for Oxygen not Included, trying to theorycraft my next steps in the game.

Gwideon

nice. I haven't really played the game as it seems really punishing

@Xirema

GcL

Punishment? more like funishment!

Xirema

There's basically just two lessons you have to take on board to make sure you don't lose your colony.

1. Don't print every duplicant you're offered. You don't need more than 4-8 for like the first couple hundred cycles, and until you're in the late game, 12-16 will handle things just fine.

2. Get to work building "rooms" (dedicated single-occupant bedrooms, washrooms, mess halls, etc.) because that will dramatically boost morale, and you need that boost to keep your duplicants happy and productive.

GcL

Like Rimworld, but without all the hattery.

Yuuki

@Xirema I probably need to get some more. I'm on cycle 300 or something with 6 dupes.

@Xirema Don't bother with single-occupant bedrooms until you have a good source of plastic though, since you need Comfy Beds to qualify for the bedroom.

Gwideon

3:56 PM

I'm not very good at city building games and that sort of stuff

Xirema

@Yuuki You can still get the Barracks though, lower benefit but a +1 is a +1.

Yuuki

Also, don't dig up every plant you find.

GcL

@Gwideon I'm awful, but I like playing them... so I'm always entertained by achievements about failure in funny ways.

Yuuki

If you can find 6 close together, you can turn it into a room and slap a nature park sign for a big morale bonus.

Xirema

And if you build 4x4 rooms (6x6 including walls + door) you'll have room for the comfy bed + picture (decor item).

I've also been Drywalling the bedrooms, although I don't think that provides any kind of tangible benefit underground. Is just a good way to use up excess rock, and I like the aesthetic.

Gwideon

3:58 PM

I personally really like age of empires 2 even though i'm not very good at it

Yuuki

Rime is nice because you can completely ignore Slimelung, but it's also annoying because you rely on the printing pod to get Dreckos.

So plastic ranching is RNG.

Plus you need to heat up a room to be able to support Dreckos.

Xirema

Hmm, depends. I only use Dreckos for plastic, and you don't need a heated room for glossy dreckos.

Yuuki

You need regular Dreckos to get to Glossy.

And livable range for Glossy is still 5-80C.

Xirema

@Yuuki Yeah, but you can just directly start feeding them mealwood.

Yuuki

@Xirema You still need to heat a room to get the livable range for regulars if you're on Rime.

My base is 5C right now, give or take.

Xirema

4:01 PM

@Yuuki Ah. I'm still only playing on Terra worlds, so average base temp usually hovers between 30C-50C, depending on how badly I'm managing heat. XD

Yuuki

I need to add a liquid tepidizer to my reservoir as well because parts of it occasionally freeze.

@Xirema I decided to give Rime a try and it's honestly not so bad. Like I said, it completely removes the Slimelung problem.

And you don't need to worry as much about heat management.

Xirema

@Yuuki Honestly kinda tempting.

Yuuki

Plumbing is more annoying though.

Which can be a problem setting up a washroom sieve loop early.

Xirema

@Yuuki Yeah... that sounds like a potential issue. =/

Yuuki

If you're not careful about how you run your pipes, your already cold water might release some of their heat into their colder environment and dip below freezing point in your pipes.

Which causes cold damage and can break them.

Xirema

4:05 PM

My Terra world spawned a leaky Oil reservoir less than a screen away from my starting position, though mercifully it was blocked until I had a chance to properly insulate it.

And it spawned a Copper Volcano not-that-far-away under it.

So the fact that my average base temperature hovers around 32C is kind of a small miracle.

Yuuki

Oooo, you could run some Steam Turbine power generators though.

I might need to pick up some more dupes on my current Terra run and dig down for some geothermal power.

Gwideon

so um I'm feeling a lot better than yesterday. I'm avoiding meta except for the occasional comments

Xirema

Yeah. I need to do a better job clearing the path to the volcano because it takes like a whole minute for a single duplicant to run down there, and while I did force Atmo suits down that path, it still means it takes a lot of time to set up even modest infrastructure down there

@Gwideon That's good.

A lot of it is I just kept avoiding pockets of Chlorine/Hydrogen, because (LOL) I was worried about heat getting back to my base.

Yuuki

@Xirema You can make S-paths, which are weirdly faster than digging straight down.

Gwideon

yeah it is

Yuuki

4:11 PM

And with the 2-column space, you can set up ladders and fire poles afterwards.

Xirema

Fire poles are really what I need. I wasted a lot of my copper + iron, and while I have a lot of gold, I want to save it for high-temp projects that actually need it.

So I've been putting off installing fire poles in my base.

Yuuki

Well, you have a copper volcano.

Xirema

Yeah, I just need to get setup to actually harvest from it. XD

Gwideon

@Rubiksmoose I never answered this but I'm a zelda main

Rubiksmoose

@Gwideon Nice! Rosalina is mine :)

Gwideon

4:14 PM

I used to main sheik in smash 4

Rubiksmoose

Sadly she got pretty handily nerfed in the move from Smash 4, but I still love her the best.

Xirema

@Gwideon Ooh, me too. Although in the latest Smash game I've also been playing a lot of Lucina.

Gwideon

I've been playing a bit of lucina as well.

Yuuki

@Xirema What temperature is your copper volcano output?

I've always been an Olimar guy.

Xirema

@Yuuki Over a thousand degrees, but I need to actually open the game and check because I don't know the exact temp.

Gwideon

4:16 PM

@yuuki stares at you while I get flashbacks god not olimar

sorry just trying to be funny

Yuuki

Pikmin's one of my favorite games so naturally I gravitated towards Olimar.

Xirema

I've never played against anyone who mained Olimar.

Yuuki

I hear he's not as strong because they changed his up-B recovery.

Gwideon

Be glad you haven't. Olimar is one of the most annoying character's to fight against in my opinion

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki Ooo! I want to like Olimar, but I could just never get good with him.

Yuuki

4:18 PM

@Rubiksmoose I mean, neither can I but that never stopped me.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki hah!

Yuuki

I can't remember if mechanized airlocks can overheat.

Rubiksmoose

I can't wait until we get Pikmin for Switch.

Xirema

@Yuuki I mean, I assume they can, but mine is literally right next to the volcano and it hasn't needed repairs yet...

@Rubiksmoose New Pikmin, or a port? Is something announced?

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema I don't think anything has been announced. I'm very hopeful though. I thought there might have been some vague rumors/hints from Nintendo?

Xirema

4:23 PM

@Rubiksmoose Hmm..... * begins scanning Laura K. Buzz's Twitter Timeline.....

Yuuki

Whether or not they overheat will determine my tentative design for a copper tamer + steam power generator.

So this is a rudimentary design in case mechanized airlocks overheat:

Run the output of the steam turbine over to the liquid vent.

Open up the airlocks to dump water into the pool of liquid copper. This will cool the copper and flash-boil the water into steam, which will be consumed by the steam turbine to generate power and less-hot water.

You can add sweepers on the outside of the room to clear away solid copper and maybe add ice if you want.

Xirema

@Yuuki On the outside of the room? How do they reach the copper?

Yuuki

@Xirema oh wait, sweepers need line of sight and you probably don't want to use glass...

I think you have access to steel, right?

Xirema

4:39 PM

@Yuuki Do they work through glass?

Yuuki

@Xirema IIRC, yes, sweepers only need line-of-sight.

Xirema

@Yuuki In theory, yes. I've not set up an actual smelter yet.

Yuuki

You can try this:

Gwideon

4:54 PM

isn't sure what to talk about

Xirema

@Yuuki I'm guessing that's built with Steel sweeper, aquatuner, etc?

Yuuki

Yep.

There's a small layer of crude oil that functions as a heat buffer.

The aquatuner is for cooling the turbine.

Xirema

Hmm. Will look into it later.

Gwideon

5:18 PM

so um beloved fool made a post

i'm not sure how I feel about it

Medix2

Not really sure where to ask this, why are comments entirely removed on some meta stack exchange questions?

Gwideon

sorry I know everyone is tired of this

the comment threads where getting out of hand and rather offensive

also take meta stuff to not a bar

@Medix2 chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/13848/…

Medix2

Is it common to just completely remove comments from a question?

goodguy5

@Medix2 yes

especially when it gets into a separate or inflammatory tangent

Medix2

It just seems... odd... especially when some have a great number of upvotes. I suppose I'm just more used to seeing the "move to a chat" notif

Rubiksmoose

5:32 PM

@Medix2 You're talking MSE in particular correct?

Medix2

I just feel like you could then just delete the tangent, but I'm definitely out of my normal zone here

@Rubiksmoose Correct

goodguy5

I can't form the right words to say this, so don't take it agressively.

But what's your point?

Xirema

Guess who had literally several hundred comments removed from their answer yesterday? XD

Medix2

In particular there were comments on meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335743 and meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335701 that I found helpful or summed up thoughts quite well and wanted to use, only to find them gone

Rubiksmoose

(disclaimer: never been an MSE mod but I am and have been talking with them for a while now) So discussions on MSE especially recently have gotten extremely heated. One problem is that pruning the bad comments but leaving the others likely just results in more bad comments later in response to the same triggers.

Medix2

5:34 PM

@goodguy5 Apologies, I didn't know the normal processes of the site and have now been informed

@Rubiksmoose That's a very helpful point, thank you

Gwideon

@goodguy5 I honestly don't know whether to take the post positively or negatively. ON one hand It addresses some of what I'm feeling on the other I feel it's to harsh.

Rubiksmoose

Another is that removing one comment or on group of comments just incites backlash from that group because "favoritism" or "censorship"

goodguy5

which is why I tried to preface it.

uh..... how about "what are you trying to tell us?"

Rubiksmoose

Yet another is that the MSE mods (or really the CMs) are putting out so many fires right now. They don't have time to carefully sort through hundred-long comment chains and think about each one. If the comments are being a problem it is easier to nuke them all. And at least nobody can accuse you of bias.

Gwideon

@goodguy5 I um kinda don't know. I was kinda hoping for someone elses opinion on the post.

Rubiksmoose

5:38 PM

Also, as always, comments are intended to be temporary. Important points should be going in answers. If you made a key point in a comment, you should know that there's a chance that the comment will get deleted and should consider putting it in an answer.

Medix2

@Rubiksmoose I can see that in those cases, there just weren't hundreds of comments here, but the other points you've brought up definitely make sense, thank you

Rubiksmoose

No problem :)

Gwideon

sorry

Xirema

@Gwideon I sympathize wholesale with the post, I'm just not sure what there is to be said or done about it right now.

Gwideon

neither do I

Xirema

5:41 PM

SE got themselves into a situation they do not understand (or at least didn't understand before they posted that FAQ post...) and were not prepared to deal with.

Gwideon

i think a lot of Lavender community folks are expressing a lot of frustration

brug

The problem is that there are a TON of very subtle digs and even the slightest attempt at policing it is being met with extreme pushback.

Doing nothing makes the situation worse but doing anything also makes the situation worse.

Xirema

Namely: what do you do if you try to roll out changes to try to improve the site's climate for LGBT people, and a bulk of people (probably not a majority, maybe not even a plurality) are just straight-up opposed to those changes, and are good at making dogwhistle arguments that sound like legitimate critiques?

Gwideon

so it's a catch 22

brug

I mean people are actually parading this as a good faith action and defending it vehemently.

Gwideon

5:45 PM

yeah it's not

Xirema

And what do you do if those same people have an effigy they can burn whenever they want so that people who have legitimate criticisms of SE's behavior are pulled into the mix?

Rubiksmoose

← 4 messages moved from RPG General Chat

Gwideon

it's a troll post with someone posing as a reasonable rational person

Xirema

Because like, I mentioned a while back that Monica was being swamped with Alt-Right types that were trying to hugbox her. Well, that may or may not still be going on, but they're also doing that to a lot of the rest of the people here as well.

brug

@Xirema Yeah that I don't know. What I do know is that historically, groups that are so heavily marginalized, as trans people are, that they are practically hidden due to fear, will have to face a tremendous amount of backlash before they can create the visibility that is needed to normalize them.

It is only in the normalization that well-meaning but uninformed people slowly discover how to treat them with humanity.

@Gwideon I mean that person is a well-established member of the community.

Medix2

5:48 PM

@brug Apologies, could you explain your point here, I'm just not entirely sure what you've said

brug

@Medix2 There are a lot of people defending the person who changed their name to Attack Helicopter

Xirema

@Medix2 So our best guess is that the person who wrote that original post is being disingenuous.

Gwideon

@brug true but um it'll be really tough. there's a lot of baggage when it comes to the uninformed persons image of trans and non-binary people.

Rubiksmoose

@brug Yeah you know it's bad when even my troll sensor was reading "100% troll"

Medix2

I don't think I have a response to that besides genuine unhappiness....

brug

5:49 PM

And they are arguing that it wasn't in any way disrespectful and even if it was disrespectful said person just didn't know any better

Gwideon

i'm just sad that we can't seem to get past all of this

Xirema

@brug And the problem is, if you point that out, people just respond "you're violating the Assume Good Faith rule!"

@Gwideon TBH, if we're "past this" in a month I'll be impressed.

brug

agreed

Gwideon

yeah same

brug

I mean this commenter is supposed to be a mod on Skeptics

Gwideon

5:54 PM

that's ironic

Medix2

As somebody who is offended by the attack helicopter meme this is kinda painful...

goodguy5

@Gwideon gotcha

Gwideon

sorry i'm gonna avoid that cesspit of a post as it's a little much for me

Medix2

My belief: You don't get to decide who is or isn't offended by something

2

Gwideon

^

goodguy5

6:00 PM

Is there a line on that?

To be needlessly pedantic, what if someone is offended by the sky? or by the way I tie my shoes? or anything mundane?

From there, where's the line?

MikeQ

@goodguy5 Unfortunately mundane things can become offensive, and there's no real counter to it, even if one isn't aware of when or why the thing would cause offense

Gwideon

i assume this in the context of social interaction. You have to be reasonable (and most people are) but yeah I shouldn't really have to defend myself if I feel like something (such as the attack helicopter meme) is offensive

Xirema

@goodguy5 I think it's better to focus on the actual examples of people "getting offended over nothing" than trying to pin down hypotheticals.

goodguy5

@Xirema This is an excellent point

MikeQ

@goodguy5 In practice you can try explaining you didn't know, and hopefully the people assume good intent and explain why the thing is offensive

Xirema

6:04 PM

Like, if I'm sitting here inside my own head, I can imagine a Climate Change activist getting "offended" by the sky because it's polluted and they're frustrated that action isn't being taken to deal with it, but I cannot extend that scenario to imagine how they get mad at someone else for... I dunno. Drawing the sky? Taking a picture of it? Describing it in a book? Talking about it?

Like, it's just too abstract an idea.

MikeQ

Well, take the diving "OK" symbol for example. Something mundane that got turned into something offensive.

Medix2

@goodguy5 At the very least I can't control the sky so if somebody took offense at it, it's not something I did. If somebody were truly upset with the style I tie my shoes in and they asked me to do something I could tie them differently and in the case that I can't do that, I would explain that fact

goodguy5

@MikeQ ugh, that still bugs me. especially because the hubbub:actual-impact ratio was waaaay too high

Medix2

Mundane things becoming offensive have been the buddhist symbol of peace, the Betsy Ross flag, and the "OK" symbol. Two of those have much current debate, the first though does not and has evolved very much into the reality that you simply do not use the symbol

goodguy5

imo, It's one of those things that would have quietly died, if not for a bunch of clickbait "is okay racsit now?!" articles

Xirema

6:07 PM

@goodguy5 Maybe; but you have to bear in mind that a lot of the mainstream media that picked up on that topic didn't really understand what they were seeing.

goodguy5

@Xirema and thus, we have mainstream media in a nutshell

Gwideon

yep

MikeQ

Regardless, the point is if someone says they're offended by it, one can't say "No you're not, it's okay because I'm a scuba diver"

Xirema

@goodguy5 I mean, fair, but the broader point is that a lot of people blame the media for turning Alt-Right trolling into Legitimate White Supremacist dogwhistling, and fail to realize that that was the whole point of the trolling.

As much as it looks like an ad-hoc thing, it was a coordinated, engineered effort.

goodguy5

side note: etymology of in a nutshell

Medix2

6:09 PM

@MikeQ Agreed, you can't simply dismiss somebody when they take offense at something

goodguy5

I still occasionally throw out the "okay" sign and now I get to worry if someone thinks I'm a nazi, so that's fun.

MikeQ

Ultimately though, the answer is "it depends". It's also possible that if someone is too easily offended by what you do, then maybe the best option is to not engage with them.

Gwideon

the okay sign is usually fine. it's only offensive in a certain context

MikeQ

For example, if someone is offended by the sky, then I imagine they'd avoid outside, or weather-related forums, or contexts in which the sky is discussed

goodguy5

does everyone remember in grade school, holding the okay sign below your waist and getting someone to look at it was a punching?

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Circle%20Game

Medix2

6:14 PM

Unsure what "a punching" means but that was a thing for me, yes the circle game

goodguy5

@Gwideon what word in this sentence is the word "steady" modifying?

MikeQ

There are also contextual factors that matter, as well as the reason behind the supposedly offensive thing

Gwideon

i can;t actually look at urban right now

due to the network I'm on

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 In the meta sense, decisions like that are often made to preserve the favorable signal to noise ration of an SE site. A lot of comment threads (not just on meta) add undesirable noise, and low noise is a stated SO/SE goal. But, in this case, I am not sure why, and am not privy to the decisions of the meta mods and Powers that Be

GcL

@goodguy5 I've been running into that as well. I've been switching to thumbs up when a server asks me how the food is.

Medix2

6:18 PM

@KorvinStarmast Thank you for further clarification, Rubiksmoose also went over some really good points I simply hadn't considered. I now see the value and reasons behind decisions there

MikeQ

@GcL But that's offensive to gladiators

GcL

@MikeQ Those are the heating elements that make you feel better about a situation?

Gwideon

hahahaha

GcL

In a bad mood? just plug in the gladiator.

MikeQ

@GcL If it worked for Romans then it'll work for me

GcL

6:21 PM

@MikeQ I'll prepare the powdered lead makeup. At least we'll have a reason for being crazy.

Ready to be lead-y ?

Gwideon

i'm ready to go crazy

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 One of the thingks that seven and mxy and doppel and a few others taught me as I first began SE stuff a few years ago is that comments need to be policed up and cleaned out once a comment has served its purpose. It is otherwise noise. I really like how on RPGSE we clean comments up and out a lot. Most other SE's a I participate in have appalling signal to noise rations due to comment stacks being pages long.

goodguy5

@Xirema why have you done this to me

GcL

Some people around here use 'leaded' to mean caffeinated.

KorvinStarmast

It is a signal strength of RPGSE IMO that we clean comments up or the mods move them to a chat room. Clean page, high signal, low noise. I like that.

Medix2

6:24 PM

@KorvinStarmast "Pages long"... Wow, that's scary. I guess I should branch out to stacks besides RPG and MATH

Gwideon

Comment pile on is very rare on RPGSE

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema Saw your meta post, I tip my cap to you for giving it a good effort. That's a tough room to work at the moment.

GcL

@goodguy5 Careful.... a paperclip maximizer could be one of the most dangerous AIs in the universe.

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 Uh, I'd suggest not if you like a good signal to noise ratio. :)

GcL

The technical sites are okay if you happen to already know the terms of art required to solve a problem.

Xirema

6:30 PM

@KorvinStarmast You missed the comments it generated. Tim's description is pretty understated.

Gwideon

it was horrid

Xirema

I almost wish I could have preserved the comments, since ironically, it was probably the best example I could have used of exactly what I was trying to describe.

Gwideon

yeah

but they needed to be taken care off. some of them were really nasty. especially that only_pro guy

brug

I've been screenshotting stuff

Medix2

This may be out of line, but what question/answer / what happened? I just hope you're doing well Xirema

Gwideon

6:33 PM

@Medix2 meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335713/…

this one

i posted it yesterday

brug

unfortunately I didn't get any of those

Gwideon

um you may notice that my name is no longer attributed to it

Xirema

@Medix2 If you've ever seen me get into arguments with people here, you know that my Ego/Stubbornness is too much to be broken by a bunch of angry transphobes on the internet. =P

Gwideon

sorry

Xirema

Though admittedly all the fights I get into on this stack are waaaaay lower stakes.

Gwideon

6:40 PM

@Xirema I'm glad we have you. we need someone so resilient to advocate for us

3

Medix2

I'm really not sure how to say this... To me, SomeoneWhoUsedToCare's answer comes across as quite aggressive and hateful...

Xirema

@Medix2 I mean, that seems like a pretty apt descriptor.

Medix2

It stands with 52 upvotes and that honestly shocks me

GcL

@Medix2 What do you want me to upvote?

Gwideon

@Medix2 yeah it does and they were rather aggressive

um I explained the intent behind my post several times to them and they just wouldn't accept it.

Medix2

6:46 PM

@GcL I mean you can upvote what you want it just comes across as so utterly hateful to me that I can't

GcL

@Medix2 Oh so the opposite. I always just assume when someone mentions votes on things they want more.

Does it need balance? One time antler'd 3d square mentioned liking balanced numbers of up and down votes. So I can never tell with them.

Medix2

@Xirema Thank you for taking the time to write your answer there, I have felt a lot of what you've laid out there and appreciate the effort you put in towards speaking your mind

Xirema

@Medix2 I thought it was extremely important to focus only on posts from that most recent FAQ because there's a tendency for people to dismiss it as "well it happened awhile ago" or "well it's just a small group of agitated users; they don't reflect the community as a whole".

Rubiksmoose

@GcL That makes it sound like I'm the Thanos of SE voting lol

3

Xirema

The FAQ got a lot of high-profile focus. If you're a user that cares about this issue, you probably visited that post.

Medix2

6:57 PM

@Xirema And I think that's a rather fantastic way to go about it, showing that it is present and that it is no small thing

GcL

@Rubiksmoose I think it still ends up net positive, yes? Also, it was a long time ago. Maybe months even!

Rubiksmoose

@GcL I'm not sure I remember when I might have said that. But my memory is not trustworthy. But yeah equal up and down will still net positive rep.

Xirema

And the fact that so many of those posts, whether intentionally or by ignorance, implicitly supported the rhetoric being made by those users, pretty strongly tells us that the toxicity isn't just a tiny minority. I don't think it's a Majority or even necessarily a plurality, but it's a lot of people.

MikeQ

@Rubiksmoose To maintain balance in the upvotes, there must be light upvotes and dark upvotes. If they are out of balance, then something something it's bad I guess

Xirema

@Rubiksmoose I think I remember you making a joke about it, not actually asserting any kind of stance on policy or something. =P

GcL

6:59 PM

@MikeQ In here it's all orange downvotes.

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ But then the grey upvotes are going to come around and mess everything all up.

@Xirema That's absurd! I would never joke on here.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Yeah! Joking aside. The main course is always puns!

MikeQ

@Rubiksmoose Let's turn this into a TLJ discussion because those are always civil

Medix2

I do wonder how the coloration of the votes affects colorblind people, especially deuteranopia (red-green)

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ hahaha

Yuuki

7:04 PM

@MikeQ Hot take: TLJ was an all right movie that really missed the mark on its target audience.

Gwideon

i like TLJ i don't get the hate. I think it's pretty good.

Yuuki

My understanding is that the hate is basically just that TLJ is a different movie than what people were expecting.

People wanted Luke to come back and be a hero. Barring that, they at least wanted him to have "answers".

GcL

I was happy the porgs didn't beat the First Order with whatever their equivalent Care Bear Stare is.

Gwideon

it's the reason why I avoid the starwars fandom despite being a starwars fan for most of my life

Yuuki

Which is part of the whole meta-narrative of TLJ so haha.

Medix2

7:10 PM

I find it funny/amusing that I lost my privilege to downvote by downvoting

GcL

You can still downvote all the chats in here with me.

MikeQ

@Medix2 Downvotes are a non-renewable resource

Gwideon

my personal take is that with some time the last jedi will be better liked

MikeQ

@Gwideon Nobody hates Star Wars movies as much as the Star Wars fanbase does

Gwideon

yep

Medix2

7:13 PM

Nobody hates the Harry Potter movies more than the fanbase, same for Lord of the Rings

Gwideon

it's sad

Medix2

I always find it so wonderfully helpful to just divorce movies from their source material. Judge the movie as a work of film, judge its adherence to source material completely separate to that

brug

@Medix2 That's what I do and it works wonders

MikeQ

Last year's chat discussion on TLJ: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/44813888#44813888

GcL

When does the next one come out? December?

They're always xmas time, right?

Yuuki

7:16 PM

@MikeQ Oh man, I forgot about this.

Medix2

Apparently December 20th

GcL

I hope I remember to go see it before Disney locks it in a vault or paywall or something

Gwideon

hey um this post is just really sad meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335785/…

Medix2

7:41 PM

I personally have almost no ability to discern whether a person is sincere or trolling so I can't say anything on that....

GcL

7:54 PM

@Medix2 Geographically, If you reside south of the Mackinaw Bridge, you're a troll. If you're above it you're either a Uper or a Canuck

I don't know if there's longitudinal consideration there. Could be global.

Gwideon

9:08 PM

so there's been a thing

Xirema

@Gwideon ?

G. Moylan

I'm over $1million a minute now

You've done this, @Xirema

Xirema

@G.Moylan I regret nothing.

G. Moylan

> Lifetime investment revenue report: $697,732,110|

Gwideon

9:30 PM

SE responded

trogdor

@Gwideon to your post?

brug

No they mean this:

41

A: Dear Stack Exchange: a statement and a letter from your moderators

Thank you for writing to us about this. This isn’t our final response here, but in the interest of being transparent and keeping lines of communication open, we wanted to respond with something as soon as possible. While this isn’t the answer you’ve been looking for, we wanted to update you on so...

Andras Deak

let's hope more than the CMs listen

Gwideon

No

@brug I was responding to someone else sorry

brug

no prob

How are you holding up?

trogdor

9:37 PM

oooh

Xirema

So the post as-is I can't really comment on, other than "well, we'll see whether this holds up or not".

However, it did lead me to the "proposed changes to the FAQ" post that Cesar linked, to, and Aza's excellent response to it critiquing and suggesting further changes to it.

That was a nice breath of fresh air.

brug

It was.

I am glad that they defined their press policy and I am happy specifically how they did. That wasn't new to that post either though

Andras Deak

9:52 PM

since the shitstorm started we've had both a nice apology and a nice FAQ for the CoC, too bad that neither came from the company

trogdor

:/

Xirema

@AndrasDeak I mean, the FAQ the company gave us wasn't terrible, it just didn't recognize that the people who need an FAQ are people who don't already understand Queer Justice issues.

Andras Deak

Yeah, it wasn't that bad. Certainly not as bad as the votes would suggest.

but what SE wanted to achieve would have needed the unofficial FAQ

Xirema

Like, an FAQ for "we're making changes to the CoC to better support Trans People" needs to be targeted for an intended audience of Cisgendered people. Because Cisgendered people are the people who are going to have 99% of the questions.

Andras Deak

(or something closer to that at least)

trogdor

9:56 PM

I mean, I myself read that and didn't know if they were actually even talking about what they should be talking about

Xirema

For Transgendered people, all those points are things they already know.

trogdor

it looked a little boilerplate to me

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