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@trogdor Well isn't that enough for you?!
 
12:44 AM
@Rubiksmoose I wish he didn't die that way honestly
Enough for me implies I approve of it
 
Yeah I was just teasing.
EAP. It breaks my telltale heart.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:15 AM
@Carcer Given where you are from, I have a hard time taking that seriously, given your body of work in terms of expressing your opinion. I do appreciate the effort at offering an olive branch however, so I thank you for that effort.
 
@KorvinStarmast yeah, the other factor that really weighs against voter ID laws for me is the way they're used in conjunction with increased bureaucratic barriers to getting the documentation to begin with
 
@Carcer When I have a bit more time to explain, I'll share with you where that PoV comes from in terms of RL dealings with Brits. But as I have not sufficient time now, I'll ask you to sort of "book mark that thought" so that I can perhaps do it justice in terms of "not a sound byte" response. Until that is possible, be well.
 
 
6 hours later…
7:58 AM
@Carcer I have an impression that there's something very mishandled somewhere if something as basic as checking who's who when voting would cause disenfranchisement.
 
@vicky_molokh well, this goes back to our previous discussion about mandatory ID. As others have explained, voter identification is an issue in America precisely because certain demographics in the US have disproportionate difficulty in acquiring accepted ID
for a start getting any sort of ID costs and there are a lot of people in poverty for which that's just not an expense they can afford
geographically there's ridiculous stuff like lots of people living in areas where there's only one DMV within realistic travel distance and it's only open one day a week between the hours of 1000-1500
 
@Carcer What I don't understand is how on one hand you say it's acceptable to have an undocumented (in terms of ID) demographic at all, then turn around and de facto enforce ID by way of 'not for identification' things like SSNs at the same time. I've had it explained to me that it's because you don't like to let the government and corporations to keep tabs on people, but if that's so, I don't get how the SSNs are what they are.
 
no "you"s, it's not my system
 
@Carcer Isn't UK similarly pasportless?
 
yes, but the UK doesn't have social security numbers like the US does
 
8:05 AM
@Carcer Ah. I was misinformed that you have a similar approach. Or maybe it's just not that similar.
@Carcer Also the fact that USA let the vehicular mini-buraucracy to sprawl so wide as to be a de facto provider of general-purpose identification.
 
there are a bunch of identifiers that a person in the UK might have but it's largely to do with the tax system and those are not societally used as any kind of unique identifier
if you've ever worked legitimately in the UK you will have a national insurance number for instance but the only purpose anyone uses that for is for making sure your national insurance contributions are paid and acknowledged correctly
 
Ah, cool. So UK seems like it actually follows the principle of not letting the gov and corps keep too close tabs on people. Based on what you say.
Meanwhile, from what people told me, SSNs seem like the worst of both worlds.
 
@vicky_molokh knowing what one knows about modern technology I cannot in good faith say that I think government and corporations are particularly respectful of individual privacy
there's no big visible system, sure, but in the information age it wouldn't be that hard to piece together lots of apparently disparate data
 
True. A big question is whether e.g. the tax bureaucracy secretly breaks the law and shares data with other organisations.
But it still looks like at least an attempt to follow the principle.
 
I'll just make clear again that my comments about other places being dystopian was a joke. IIRC the UK is leading the world in surveillance cameras per capita for instance
 
8:14 AM
@Carcer I said this to Rubic and say this to you: I'm not offended (in fact I don't approve of being offended ever by anything), but I felt that I should reply to such a statement.
 
all places are bad but they're bad in different ways
 
@Carcer Some are worse than others on average.
@Carcer Yeah, I did have the urge to bring up that as a humorous retort about dystopias.
 
@vicky_molokh sure. For all its faults the UK doesn't contain any active warzones or anything
@vicky_molokh just making sure people realise I am somewhat self-aware about this and not just bursting with nationalistic pride
 
@Carcer Oh, all (most?) nations do have things to brag about. (Or be proud about, assuming one consider pride to ever be acceptable at all, as opposed to, say, a sin.)
 
@vicky_molokh national pride as a serious concept generally makes me deeply uncomfortable
pride in being english, or to a slightly lesser extent pride in being british, reads to me as a marker for "probably somewhat racist"
 
8:26 AM
Though some are misguided about what to brag about.
@Carcer That's an odd connotation since the UK and even Great Britain is multiracial-ish.
 
overwhelming majority white
it tends to go hand in hand with a rhetoric about taking back our country from (the EU, immigrants, left-wing elites)
I would I grant you probably feel very differently about watching white people express their English pride vs. black or asian people doing so
well, english pride specifically is basically code for white english nationalism, british pride more varied
anyway I gotta go to work
cheerio
 
@Carcer Majority sure. But I mean you're not as homogeneous as, say, Japan or Iceland.
/waves goodbye
 

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