Not a bar, but plays one on TV

Gwideon

1:55 PM

hello

Gwideon

2:15 PM

i'm tired

of everything

goodguy5

oh yea?

Gwideon

yeah

goodguy5

What's the effective difference between Bisexual and Pansexual?

Gwideon

they're kinda the same kinda not. bisexual still works within a binary gender system. pansexual is basically the term updated to account for a spectrum. they're kinda interchangeable and alot of people who consider themselves bi would be fine with being considered pan.

goodguy5

Yea, I understand the syntactical difference, but it's hard to imagine a bi-person that would be against dating (etc) someone who was nonbinary.

Yuuki

2:27 PM

I'm sure there are bisexual people who don't believe in a gender spectrum. I used to have a hard time imagining that self-identified feminists would be against trans rights but TERFs do exist. Unfortunately.

Gwideon

yeah which is why they're basically interchangeable. a bi person may have more reservations about it than a pan person thjough

goodguy5

interesting.

Gwideon

I'm trying to explain it but um yeah it's um a bit difficult to get into the nuance

goodguy5

thanks!

Gwideon

it's a complicated question. My best answer is that they're basically interchangeable

doppelgreener

2:39 PM

it really is a complicated question because there's lots of definitions of bisexuality

goodguy5

thanks for the chat!

doppelgreener

and the newer the definition you're using, the more interchangeable they are

Gwideon

yeah

goodguy5

Is it insensitive to make up words for identities for the sake of "the newer the"

Gwideon

I'm not gonna answer this as I feel that I could step on some toes depending on how I answer

goodguy5

2:45 PM

@doppelgreener demipangynosexual

doppelgreener

2:59 PM

what do you mean "the newer the"?

@goodguy5 you just say you're demisexual and pansexual and gynosexual typically

goodguy5

Nah. take the German language approach and smoosh em all together.

Xirema

Yeah, in principle, Bisexuality refers to attraction to 'either' gender whereas Pansexuality refers to attraction 'regardless' of gender, but given that those words were invented at very different points in time from each other, I think it's easier to just observe that they kind of mean the same thing in modern colloquial use and just have differently dated origins.

Like, there's probably a few people who started identifying as bisexual before they were even aware that pansexual was a word for a type of attraction.

Trying to parse out "what's the difference" isn't really an argument about the actual semantic meanings of those words, it's kind of just a lesson on history and the evolution of words.

goodguy5

@Xirema I just asked my friend about it (who identifies as bi) and she said "So far, people I have been attracted to have fallen in either the male or female category. if it comes up, I'll amend my label."

Xirema

@goodguy5 Yeah, and I'm not prepared to challenge how she feels about it. It's a kind of slippery conversation, fraught with a lot of potential to accidentally (even if with well intentions) invalidate someone's identity.

goodguy5

3:15 PM

Though, the concept of non-binary people and sexuality always interested me in a semantic sense.

I'm sure that I would have no problem being with an individual who was biologically female, but did not identify as female.

Does that alter my identity as "Heterosexual"?

ignore that slipup

Yuuki

Depends on what your concept of the gender spectrum entails.

And what your concept of sexual orientation is.

Xirema

@goodguy5 I think terms like "heterosexual" and "homosexual" probably need to be dropped from any kind of non-academic context, if I'm being totally honest. Because the way they're derived and intended to be used just doesn't apply very well to a more modern conception of human attraction/sexuality.

It's not that I think the terms are "offensive" in that way so much as I just think they're bad at expressing the concepts we're trying to say.

Yuuki

Plus, your reality hasn't really changed. Maybe your name for it might, but it doesn't sound like your actual identity has.

goodguy5

Which brings me back to my half-joke from earlier:

Gynosexual. but you're going to get a lot of weird looks if you put that on your facebook profile

user15026

I just say I am bi because that means less frustrating conversations with people who dont want to understand. I get why people think it could be exclusionary but I am enby on top of all that so have fun with that I guess?

Yuuki

3:20 PM

Your identity is no less valuable or valid than it was before.

goodguy5

fair

Xirema

Like, being a man attracted primarily to women isn't strictly about sex, or reproduction, or about your gential configuration (and that of your partner's). It might be, for a specific person, but that doesn't describe all flavors of "straightness", so to speak.

Yuuki

If the "before" qualifier even makes sense.

Gwideon

i've missed alot

user15026

Honestly, the only person who can really define where you fit is you.

NautArch

3:22 PM

this would be muchsimpler if it was just people who liked other people and people who aren't attracted to other people.

user15026

Like how I interpret my bisexuality or whatever is not how someone else will, other people will say I am pan or whatever, but shrug

Gwideon

Uh anyways

user15026

Use the stickers that make the most sense to you, be willing to change the stickers if enough changes that those stickers get itchy and weird and not comfy.

3

Gwideon

yeah

Yuuki

also definitely splurge for the scratch-n-sniff stickers if you can, those are super-fun

user15026

3:25 PM

Always. Or glittery ones,

NautArch

Oilies!

do they still have those?

goodguy5

@Yuuki that has a really uncomfortable connotation when referring to sexuality.

"yep, this one smells like furries"

Yuuki

does it though?

Xirema

I mean......

Yuuki

I'm not entirely understanding of the link.

Xirema

3:26 PM

If that's what you're in to. =P

goodguy5

that's true. Xirema, you've convinced me

Gwideon

just a random question.

goodguy5

distilling a sexuality scent that would attract others of the same scent is genius.

Xirema

@Gwideon Ah, so you've staked out the pro-Bohr position of the debate between him and Einstein, go on.

NautArch

@goodguy5 um...aren't those pheromones?

Gwideon

3:27 PM

Has anyone gotten one of those "hello my name is...." name tags and written Inigo Montoya in it

goodguy5

Are they still pheromones if they're synthetic?

But otherwise, yes.

user15026

@Gwideon so many people

goodguy5

@Gwideon no, but I've seen it done.

Gwideon

it's something I've always wanted to do

goodguy5

then do it.

preferably not at a job fair

Xirema

3:28 PM

@Gwideon I mean, I've never specifically done that before, but I can't think of a good reason not to....

Yuuki

@Gwideon I saw a shirt that had written "Sylar" instead. Man, Heroes was such a good one-season show.

user15026

@goodguy5 except for the fact that all of this is fluid and personally defined so it gets weird

Yuuki

It's a shame that they ended after that first season.

user15026

@Yuuki its really too bad they didn't do more

goodguy5

@Ash well, yea. it'd have to be fluid; how else would you drop it onto the sticker?

Gwideon

3:29 PM

@Yuuki that's how I feel about tron uprising

user15026

@goodguy5 facepalm

goodguy5

I often give "skullcrusher" when asked for my name at sandwich shops and the like.

@Ash you're welcome ^_^

Xirema

@Xirema Apologies for the slip-up; while Bohr was representing Heisenberg's position in that debate, Heisenberg himself was not actively debating Einstein about the merits of their respective positions in that debate.

Gwideon

oh science jokes

they're all really relative

sorry couldn't help myself

anyways I'll show myself out

Anyways um how do people feel about how things are going on meta. sorry

Xirema

@Gwideon My impression is that things have calmed down into an uneasy tension, but I've also been disengaged from it for the most part, so my impression could be severely mistaken.

Gwideon

3:38 PM

yeah it seems that way. um alot of the vitriol seems to have moved to chats

i'm just glad the transphobic stuff has stopped for the most part. Um i'm still kinda freaked out about that psuedo code but um yeah

sorry

NautArch

@Gwideon I know it's probably a knee-jerk reaction, but you should try and stop apologizing for everything. You have no reason to be sorry and no need to say it (and it may actually be a negative feedback for yourself by doing so.)

Gwideon

it's kinda a knee jerk reaction

NautArch

Part of becoming confident is in the realization that who you are and what you say is okay. Don't undermine yourself, you're better than that!

goodguy5

^

NautArch

And I understand that's not easy, but it does start with you.

goodguy5

3:51 PM

Great phrasing. I've been trying to formulate that sentence for a few days

Gwideon

yeah

i have trouble having confidence in my own views. i feel like I have to apologize to everyone sometimes

Yuuki

You can't spell "confidence" without "con" so go to the gym.

goodguy5

Self affirmation is often suggested. find something that you feel good/capable at.

Gwideon

Video game?

goodguy5

I can't answer that. If you tell yourself "I'm good at video games" and that validates you, then go for it.

Gwideon

3:58 PM

okay

Um this is probably damaging but does anyone know where the um pseudo code is. I

goodguy5

I'm a good father. I'm very personable. I'm pretty smart. I give nice hugs.

@Gwideon I couldn't find it after 5-10 minutes of searching.

Gwideon

I'd like to know how the person intended to implement it so I could hopefully find loop holes

NautArch

@Gwideon pseudo code?

goodguy5

@Gwideon well, it's hard to find loop holes in pseudo code because it's not real. It's basically an outline. So, the actual implementation of "do evil" is very vague.

Yuuki

I have, at minimum, two brain cells. So I can at least rub those together. Which is nice, I suppose.

Gwideon

4:02 PM

Um there have been mentions of pseudo code that crawls through user bios looking for indicated pronouns and um moving those people into a category to be doxxed

goodguy5

gwideon, do you have the meta question handy?;

Gwideon

no I don't

goodguy5

198

Q: I am non-binary - recent events have made SE less safe for me (and other members of the LGBTQ community)

I am a member of the network and posting anonymously for my safety. CW: References to and examples of hate speech I don't want to put blame anywhere, but unfortunately due to the huge turmoil created by the recent CoC changes, several right-wing websites have started reporting and thus directed...

Gwideon

Also pseudocode is good for getting the basic gist of how a programmer is approaching a problem (in this case doing evil). that may help me get some insight into the methods they intend to use.

Xirema

@Gwideon Important to bear in mind though: pseudocode can be as explicit or abstract as it wants to be.

Gwideon

4:08 PM

true

Xirema

Like, I can write code like store_doxxing_info_in_database, which might elide the fact that as written in Java or C++, it might very well be like 200 lines of code, split across SQL markup and the boilerplate needed to actually construct a Prepared Statement, connect to the Database, handle possible errors/reconfigure...

So just because someone wrote pseudocode on how to do it doesn't mean that stuff was ever going to be viable for someone to actually use it.

Gwideon

true

it's still bothering me though. I can't get it out of my head

it makes me scared.

Xirema

@Gwideon Which is valid. It's super crappy that people write that kind of stuff.

Gwideon

yeah

I'm just glad there seems to be some kind of tense cease fire while the new moderator process is getting feedback.

NautArch

There are awful people out there. You can spend your brain on them, or you can spend your brain on yourself and things that make you happy/happier. Don't let the awful take you over. That's what they want.

goodguy5

4:16 PM

I'm going to say this and it's probably not going to come off the way I want.

but If you're sitting around idly worrying about "scary things people write about on the internet", you're going to have a bad time and you should try to stop.

If you find yourself unable to stop, you should consider asking a medical professional if some sort of medicine is right for you; my wife takes anxiety medicine and it does wonders.

Which is in no way to say that people aren't doing scary things. they are.

user15026

Or just finding someone to talk to about it, who's trained in these things. Doesn't always have to be meds (although those totes have their place! They're super helpful, just not in every single case)

Gwideon

It's not the words themselves for me it's the possibility of physical harm coming to me and my loved ones behind those words that really scare me.

goodguy5

Thanks Ash. that's a good point.

And of course it's not the words, but rather the implication.

Gwideon

I don't know how to talk about this stuff without outing myself

NautArch

@Gwideon Medical professionals are a good bet here if you can get access to them. It may even be helpful to try and broach the subject with your parents now. Bringing them to understanding will not only enlarge their own world view, but also realize how it's affecting you.

Gwideon

4:24 PM

um let's move on

goodguy5

@Gwideon what do you mean?

@Gwideon oh, nevermind

NautArch

Movin' Right Along - HQ - The Muppet Movie

►

Gwideon

@goodguy5 um my parents don't know a I'm non-binary. I have to hide that and I fear that would be one thing to many.

goodguy5

@Gwideon tbh, I thought that was what you came out about. Sorry for misunderstanding

Gwideon

@goodguy5 It's all good

doppelgreener

5:42 PM

@Ash i like calling them stickers. :) i like that more than i like calling them labels.

user15026

@doppelgreener Labels are boooooring stickers are fun and can have glitter or shiny or be fun shapes or bright colours and just are better

doppelgreener

5:58 PM

@Ash you are completely right

also labels aren't meant to come off, stickers are just there for as long as you like them. labels mean "this is what's true and it's not changing", stickers are "look at this shiny thing i like for now!"

user15026

@doppelgreener Yes! Stickers are mutable.

doppelgreener

That's the word!

user15026

I am kinda proud I remembered the word.

goodguy5

6:20 PM

@Ash unlike strings

Gwideon

6:42 PM

hello

vicky_molokh

/me waves.

Gwideon

how are you

user15026

@goodguy5 My brain knows this is because strings are immutable but I don't understand it, it's something I can blindly parrot though from various CS type humans around me

goodguy5

in a nutshell, There are two components at play. The String's real (excuse the word) identity, which I will refer to as String-Soul, and the the variable that we have assigned to the string.

So, newstring = "abc"; The String-Soul "abc" is created and the variable newstring reflects that.

When I then set newstring = "def"; the String-Soul "def" is created and the variable newstring is now a reflection of "def"; while the String-Soul "abc" hangs out.

side note: the place Strings hang out is called the String Pool.

Gwideon

i'm very confused

user15026

6:56 PM

@goodguy5 So "abc" still exists, somewhere.

goodguy5

@Gwideon computer science jargon. nothing to worry about

@Ash yes. until..... something happens. If there are no active reflections of "abc", then after a while, the string pool can flush it, so to speak.

user15026

@goodguy5 Ah, okay

user15026

That makes sense, I think

user15026

enough for now anyhow

goodguy5

It took me about 3 months to get my head around it, if that helps lol

Xirema

6:57 PM

Technically only true for languages like Java where everything is Garbage Collected.

In C++, only String Literals are immutable; and even then not always.

goodguy5

@Xirema yea, but the String Pool isn't subject to garbage collection, like other memory objects. It's an entirely different subprocess

@Xirema That's because you can edit physical memory locations.

Xirema

@goodguy5 Fair enough.

goodguy5

like a madman

Xirema

Like, char const* string = "Hello world"; is an immutable string.

But char string[] = "Hello world"; is mutable.

And std::string string = "Hello world"; creates a mutable string by copying into its buffer from an immutable string.

goodguy5

@Xirema that's because you're making an array of characters, that's cheating!

Gwideon

6:59 PM

okay

I like computer science stuff but this is a bit over my head

goodguy5

that's fine :)

user15026

I don't think I understand it anymore :P

user15026

I was doing so well! :P

Gwideon

what language are we talking about

goodguy5

Somewhere between Java and C++

Gwideon

7:02 PM

okay

it's sad that most of my experience is purely with website design. All i really know well is html5, css, and Javascript

goodguy5

Those are relevant skillsets. people pay other people to do those things

Gwideon

yeah but I want to do more game design stuff. I have a tiny amount of expierence with c++ but not enough to do anything meaningful

I do have web design stuff to fall back on but um it's not really my main passion

goodguy5

in my experience, that's what hobbies are for.

I'd actually really like to be a 3d modeler. but between being lousy at it and the field being mega competitive.... Well, I'm a data engineer

Gwideon

the problem is I don't know if I'm good enough at web design to be hired.

anyways moving on

does anyone else feel a little uneasy. not sure what it is but I do right now

goodguy5

Have you done the human things? eat, poop, water, etc.

Gwideon

7:17 PM

yeah I have

goodguy5

maybe you're keyed up? play a game or something?;

Gwideon

yeah probably a good Idea

Xirema

@Ash Everything you said before was correct and made sense for a specific language, but not all languages have the same rules. That's all.

user15026

@Xirema oh right, I forget that

user15026

I forget how different they are, in my head it's all just this amorphous lump of "stuff I don't understand"

Gwideon

8:04 PM

it's interesting how unique many coding languages can be

also is it just me or is javascript really annoying to deal with

Yuuki

i mean you're not wrong

@Gwideon speaking as a current js developer, i figure it out as i go along

Gwideon

I hate having to use it as Something always seems to go wrong and while i'm trying to debug the whole thing just tends to end up in a confusing mess

Yuuki

Rule Zero of (web) development is that something will always go wrong. Rule One is that your codebase will always end up a confusing mess.

Gwideon

and with JS it tends to be one tiny little syntax thing that breaks the entire thing

Yuuki

I had to debug some client code the other day and it turned out that their critical bug was because they forgot how boolean coercion works with regards to numbers.

PSA: Number(0) is false-y.

Don't use if (list.childrenCount) to check if a list exists or has children.

JS has a lot of weird quirks and behaviors but they make sense if you keep in my mind that JS is designed to be website code and the number one priority is to not crash. So if you ask JS to do a boolean comparison between a number and a string, it'll try to make it work instead of sys.exit(-1).

Gwideon

8:19 PM

true

It's still annoying when it breaks

anyways does anyone else code while listening to music.

also um what's is everyone's opinion on scratch

and um block programming in general

Xirema

@Gwideon I need certain kinds of music to code to, something like one of those lo-fi channels on Youtube. Music I actually really like is usually too distracting for me to code to, because I keep focusing on the music. XD

Gwideon

@Xirema Hard rock for me or movie/ game music.

BESW

8:39 PM

@Gwideon I don't code, but I do listen to music while I do my art and layout work. Music, or I have a TV show or a Lets Play or something in the background.

Gwideon

sounds about right

but yeah um sorry

user15026

When I am doing graphic design or similar I tend to listen to stuff without words so I don't get distracted by singing along.

user15026

(I have a playlist that is called "Newsletter" for that reason)

Gwideon

okay

Yuuki

I play one song on a loop usually.

My record is 65 loops of Florence + the Machine's cover of "Stand By Me", I think.

I'm currently on a "Bridge Over Troubled Water" kick.

Gwideon

8:49 PM

hmmm

Andras Deak

@Gwideon I just popped into the tavern for a moment, so I'm not sure if your python remark was serious or there was something I was missing. But let me know if you need any help python-wise

Yuuki

It satisfies my "argh, i'm obsessing" brain tic while also being monotonous enough that I don't focus on the music over programming or working or wahtever.

Gwideon

I've been listening to through the fire and the flames and the fire emblem awakening soundtrack.

BESW

I listen to all kinds of stuff, but I keep coming back to Bob Dylan, Janelle Monáe, and Tool.

Gwideon

@AndrasDeak yeah it was serious.

Yuuki

8:52 PM

@BESW There was a stint where I was on "The Times They Are A-Changin'" for awhile but I think it was a cover, not Dylan's.

This one.

BESW

@Yuuki A lot of people seem to like Dylan's writing but not his performing.

Yuuki

I actually like his voice but I think I didn't really like the cadence/pacing of his rendition.

Gwideon

I'm more of a beatles fan than a dylan fan

sorry

Yuuki

Not to worry, people like what they like. As far as music goes, I don't think anyone's preferences are any more valid than anyone else's.

BESW

Yeah, music tickles everybody differently.

Yuuki

8:58 PM

I do listen to a lot of instrumental music as well, from classic to soundtracks.

Lots of soundtracks.

"On The Nature Of Daylight" by Max Richter is very good, imo. You may know it from Shutter Island or Arrival.

Oh, it was also in Stranger Than Fiction.

BESW

I also listen to aivi & surasshu's The Black Box album a lot when I just need nice noise.

Gwideon

I'm kinda a sucker for late beatles especially their softer songs such yesterday and blackbird. Those two are particularly special to me as they helped me get through some hard times in my life so they're kinda like old friends to me

sorry I'm being sappy

Yuuki

I had considered performing "Yesterday" once for a high school choir concert, but I ended up with Frank Sinatra instead.

I wish I knew more about sound editing back then, would've made getting instrumental tracks to songs much easier.

And I would have had a lot more options.

Gwideon

yeah definitely

Yuuki

9:15 PM

I was listening to some slightly more obscure stuff at the time (though it's not hard to be more obscure than the Beatles or Frank Sinatra) that I would've loved to have performed instead but didn't have access to any instrumental tracks.

Transcript for

Not a bar, but plays one on TV