That response translates to: I don't like you, so I'm not going to answer

@Ahriman Hm. You used "we" to indicate the mods in general. Notice that it is answered, by me, a mod.

If you have an issue, I apologise that I'm not getting it. It's long since time I retired anyway. Take some time to formulate it and see if I can grasp it tomorrow.

I doubt I can word it correctly

It's more of a sentiment thing...

The mod speaks as one, so one mods response reflects back to the entire team

But that's how it works in my head

We're aware that due process should have happened and that some users take things too far. Unfortunately, this is often the first and only thing we hear from mods: there are those users, who have messed things up. We get a great deal more about that than we do acknowledgment of mod issues. Parts of that conversation read very much like "we could engage in diplomacy, or those users could fix themselves." It's not an "or."

Even in this particular situation, with users who have taken things too far, it's not an "or."

mm, and if mods speak as one unit, IF they do not disputing that one way or the other here, the users of this site cannot be expected to be seen as one unit

we don't all have some place where we discuss things with all the other users and come to an unanimous agreement

listening to something inflamitory from one or more (but still not all or even the majority) user(s) should not be recourse to then ignore everything every one of the other users has to say

if that is what is happening, or if something close to that is happening, it needs to stop

regardless of to what degree

I say IF

not accusing on that point

Yeah. In my case, I don't think that the mods are viewing us as one entity, but I do feel like they've allowed the misbehavior of one segment to overshadow the needs and concerns of many others.

@Pixie this is why I say "something close to it"

taking us as one large unit, or something close to that, may be very convenient, but it ignores our status as separate individuals with feelings and different ideas from each other

Which, as I said earlier, also makes it harder on the mods, because we all have developed opinions about the site. Those opinions are often conflicting, sometimes irreconcilable. I'm sympathetic to that.

again, I don't mean to accuse the mods of anything so much as I mean to point out that not all of the users are acting like raving lunatics or war hawks, if that is even happening to any degree, and regardless of how many users ARE acting that way, not all of us are

I don't know who is or isn't acting in that manner regardless of user status

besides the fact that I DO know that I certainly am not acting that way, and I have seen plenty of users being completely reasonable, and many others keeping out of this entire,... thing entirely because they don't want to deal with it

I have seen some users acting angry, and comments reflecting that some of them may possibly have acted out of line in some way, but I have seen similar comments reflecting on certain mods, or the mods as a whole

I choose not to judge anyone based on these comments, but the real issue needs to be that not everyone on this site is choosing to act in some unacceptable fashion

and that fact needs to be addressed by BOTH (actually more like 3 at least, seemingly) SIDES ( again I wish this was not addressable as an issue of people on "sides") of this ridiculous misunderstanding (as I hope it is only that)

I wish everyone was able to say "ok look lets just talk about this like reasonable adults"

I am not accusing anyone specific of not being able to say this, but if literally everyone was in that state of mind I would be disinclined to think we would have our current issue

I need to pass out now myself, but I'll end with this: it's good to see mods engaging on this. Silence is not encouraging. As @doppelgreener suggested, I think it would help for mods to go through meta to address this. Make an apology (if sincere) and communicate an effort to listen and improve. Extend an olive branch, and mean it.

@Pixie and yes, I acknowledge this could make things harder for the mods

but it still is not an excuse for ignoring this issue to the degree it has apparently been ignored

I will also say, one difficult thing about this I could perceive from the mods is that given some users may well be more reasonable than others, that it could be hard to apologize or even engage because of a certain fear of any less reasonable user reactions, IE possibly taking it as some admission of horrible guilt and culpability

I can see that issue might be a problem

but it doesn't mean all users should just be stonewalled, which seems to be the case of what has happened to some degree

Yes. And to that I say: don't worry about users who see it as an opportunity to act unreasonably. If someone truly refuses to listen to anything you say, they're not your audience here. However, think about it carefully before you conclude that users are being unreasonable. Realize that not all anger is unjustified here, and also don't expect it to cause instant results. It's a first step. It won't work if you don't follow up on it.

yeah, that is my point

you can't let a vocal minority keep you from talking to reasonable people

Anyway! See you all later. [flies off into the night]

otherwise that same philosophy would involve staying inside forever in fear of running into crazy people

@Pixie bye, see you sometime later

night

and some users are angry yes, part of that is because they are seeing little to no response when they asked reasonable questions

or even possibly responses that were too noncommittal or didn't address the issue the right way or something

I don't claim to know much about this issue as a whole, or too many specific details, but I have heard some things to the effect that the mods have ignored a majority of user inquiry into this subject, and if that is the case to any degree, that needs to stop being the response

because if it is the case THAT is the cause of plenty of reasonable users becoming angry

again, I can see certain reasons for not wanting to respond too much involving this whole situation

any dismissal of a reasonable inquiry or question is not going to be put up with forever, even by reasonable people

I do not intend by any of this to say that the mods, or even only the mods, are at fault or entirely at fault for the springing up of this issue

I do intend to say that they way the issue has been treated by the mods very well could have exacerbated the issue, and some mods could have been on the ground floor of the issue becoming an actual issue, I don't know

I do personally find it hard to believe that only users are to blame

we are all human, and I am sure plenty of people have made mistakes, mods, users, whoever, it doesn't matter to me

what matters to me is everyone putting down any mudslinging devices they may or may not be brandishing, and actually talk about this thing like rational adults

and the mods, regardless of whether they already are or not, need to start/continue to speak to the users about this in a fashion that acknowledges that users also have feelings and are people and have opinions

this is going to take some time, it is going to be difficult, but we can do this if all parties are allowed to speak up, and are listened to

if any individual takes the opportunity to use that to sling more mud, or even already has, feel free to ignore that person

not everyone automatically after the first shot gets fired

which is sort of my rudimentary understanding of part of what has happened

sorry for wall of text

I almost wish I was still blissfully unaware of the apparent extent of this issue like I was about a week or so ago

but there is my more-than-two-cents on the whole thing

I'm officially done with this. I'm a volunteer with a specific job: handling the main site where regular user privileges can't. Meta is a tool for that. Right now meta is eating its own tail, and that doesn't in any way help me do my job on the main site. So I'm going to do my job—the alternative being resigning. My job is not PR, it's not soothing feelings, it's not massaging how I'm seen. I'm not a politician. I'm a janitor. I'm gonna keep things tidy.

If someone thinks I make a wrong call, fine, we can talk about that. Talk shop, about my mopping. If someone acknowledges that I made the right call, but they object with how I presented it: I literally (the real sense of literally, not the sense that means "figuratively") do not have time for that kind of meta-meta discussion.

If that kind of time is necessary? Then acknowledge that I'm unwilling to do it and call for my resignation or removal. This is a volunteer position on a site about imaginary stories. It is literally not worth the energy that it would take to shoulder that extra job on top of the job of moderating the main site.

One question @SevenSidedDie: does that mean that the communication between the mod team and the community will remain the same?