@RadvylfPrograms was a massive meme at a math camp I went to in 7th grade for some reason

@RadvylfPrograms i was ready to agree with him until i clicked through to a question that is literally about the legal definition of a cloud

and now kids download .jar files from http://minecraft4free.ru and bring them to school on USB sticks

Maybe don't link to piracy sites here

@Ginger SOCK² ded :(

(I don't know what's at that site, don't click it)

Then don't link to it

imma click it.. on my company VM >:)

@Ginger tlauncher is good

tlauncher is piracy

i never buy games, I find a free version (smile

@Ginger what do you recommend

if I don’t have money

Paying for games

buying the game

Alternatively, choosing a few games you really want, pirating them, and going back a few years later when you can afford them and paying

Well what if

no, piracy is never okay

i bought minecraft

@Ginger I disagree

i just use tlauncher?

@Nobody That's perfectly fine

cuz I forgot my password and is too lazy to recover it?

hmm

+there is no stupid login that wastes time

i never find it illegal to play an illegal game

...what

And I never play servers don’t ask me why idk

@Ginger ;-)

Piracy is fine if: 1. You've already paid for the game, or know you will go back and pay for it; 2. You will never be able to afford or legally purchase a game; 3. You're previewing the game before buying it legitamtely

Piracy isn't like stealing, because it doesn't take something from someone else who would have it. It is, however, still like stealing if you would have given money to the developer and you don't.

If you never would have been able to give the developer money, or if already have/will in the future, that removes the ethical issue. My issue is with people who are perfectly capable of paying for a game and don't.

@RadvylfPrograms 4. The company you're pirating from is a billion-dollar megacorp who won't even notice your lack of purchase

Well is that copied or your own words

i believe later

english assignments probably bye for some time

o/

So I don't pirate stuff, since I live somewhere where basically all games are sold legally (as in, region blocking stuff), and can afford any games I would want (within reason). But someone in Brazil who has no legal way of obtaining a copy of a game, or someone who bought Minecraft in 2009 and lost their credentials, is fine with me.

@Nobody bruh its illegal, i will sue you if you use it just buy minecraft its not hard to click some buttons

For a moment then I thought this was the sandbox room and got really confused as to why y'all were having a piracy discussion in a markdown testing room

then I realised that I was actually reading TNB

lmao

@Mayube Still unethical, just against a more unethical entity.

and let's maybe move this to off-topic before it turns into an even larger argument

← 42 messages moved from The Nineteenth Byte

@RadvylfPrograms :61221747 I pirated a lot when I was younger, because I was in school and didn't have money. Now I have a job and don't pirate games anymore. Pirating games also saved me a lot from getting burned by games I was excited for

@RadvylfPrograms I disagree, but that's getting into the philosophy of ethics which is a whooole other topic

@Mayube yeah, and all of that's reasonable IMO

I payed

i just use tlauncher

i own a Minecraft account

Yeah, that's reasonable too

I used a pirated minecraft launcher for like 2 or 3 years before I bought it

but somehow Minecraft had a few problems on some accounts

I've now bought it 3 times

so, tlauncher

when you have payed for it then why do you use tllauuchers.eu

@Nobody Minecraft accounts have migrated twice, and had problems both times

i used it like 1 years after I bought it

@PyGamer0 problems on Minecraft, whatever idc

The migration from Minecraft account to Mojang account was ridiculous though, because there was no email verification. If you knew what email address somebody used for their Minecraft account, and knew that they hadn't migrated it yet, it was a simple matter of using one of the many well-known password-stealing exploits at the time and then you can link their Minecraft account to your Mojang account and now it's your account.

@lyxal A star is not a pentagon

Hahaha

It sure is

It's a pentagon with overlapping edges

no its a decagon

@RadvylfPrograms that's a pentaGRAM

A star is an irregular decagon :P

a solid star is a decagon

well do you think buying a legal account from someone else using say 0.01 yuan which is like less than one cent is ok?

@Mayube dang

@Nobody friend of mine bought 400 minecraft accounts from ebay for $100

they were 100% all stolen accounts

You can fill in a pentagram and then it looks the exact same as an irregular decagon

whaaat can i have one pls

/s

@PyGamer0 yeah I lost my own first account to that

dang

@RadvylfPrograms Sure, and you can add a side to a square and then it looks the exact same as a regular pentagon

that is how shapes work :P

ok time to countinue reading Shamkspear's Verchant of Menice...

Well then how is it unreasonable to call a star a pentagon?

Also SEChat has hollowed stars, which clearly show a lack of interior edges

Because it has more than 5 sides

proving that it's an irregular decagon, not a pentagram

@cairdcoinheringaahing There is more than one way to draw a star

@RadvylfPrograms How is it unreasonable to call a triangle a square?

Basically some fake account with promise that it will be usable for say 2yrs

not fake, sorta stolen

This is Wikipedia

@RadvylfPrograms Every way you draw a star will have more than 5 sides

probably owner’s

Not if you let them overlap

@cairdcoinheringaahing nah a pentagram has 5 sides

Nothing in the definition of a polygon prohibits overlapping edges

All of these shapes are topologically equivalent and therefore the same thing. /s

@RadvylfPrograms And in fact, that's important in the definition of Kepler-Poinsot polyhedra

and now I get yelled at for being wrong

@Ginger idk anything about topology, but at the very least they're not geometrically equivalent. A decagon has twice as many sides and vertices as a pentagram

@cairdcoinheringaahing Because a square is defined as a four sided polygon with 90° angles and all sides the same length

why are we having an argument about shapes

do we want this conversation moved too?

This is the same complete bullshit argument people use when saying "well if guys can decide they're female, can I decide to be a dog?"

@lyxal ready your move tool

@PyGamer0 anyone here ever read Into the Wild (can I use replies this way

well do we want it moved or not?

So...any further opposition to stars being pentagons?

@RadvylfPrograms I mean, you literally said "How it is unreasonable to call <thing> a <different thing>?", which is what my other point was

@lyxal Shapes = math, and math is clearly on topic here :P

@RadvylfPrograms Yes, but I'll stop arguing :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah, it depends on what the things are. A square and a triangle are by definition different, a star and a pentagon aren't as clearly different and it's interesting to discuss why.

← 38 messages moved from The Nineteenth Byte

@RadvylfPrograms I'd argue "star" is a colloquial term. A "star" could be a pentagon (ie pentagram) or could be a decagon. Heck a "star" doesn't need to have 5 points.

Interestingly, the entire debate falls to "what is a polygon?" :P

arguing stars are pentagons is like arguing quadrilaterals are squares

And I've never heard a definition requiring them not to have overlapping sides

What is a star?

sure some of them are

@Mayube We're talking about certain stars here though

Is a polygon defined by the bounded region in the plane, or by the boundary circuit of the sides?

Not stars in general, the chat stars

If it's defined by the bounded region, then a pentagram is a decagon

@RadvylfPrograms Then I maintain that SEChat stars are demonstrably not pentagrams, therefore not pentagons

If it's defined by the boundary circuit of the sides, then yeah

SEChat stars are decagons, pentagrams are pentagons.

> A polygon cannot be both a star and star-shaped.

wat

@Romanp A filled in pentagram looks identical though

But filling it in changes the shape

@RadvylfPrograms I fail to see how this is a meaningful argument

How?

It can be both at once IMO

@Mayube Well if a filled in pentagram makes the chat star, then the chat star can be a filled in pentagram

@RadvylfPrograms stickied chat stars are still chat stars

There's no "right way" to make a filled in star shape, there are ways that do that and ways which don't do that

@Mayube No, those are pins. We're not discussing pins.

Pins are unambiguously outlines of decagons.

@RadvylfPrograms I agree. If all you have is a solid, filled-in star, you do not have sufficient information to determine whether it's a pentagon or a decagon

It's both!

No

it can be constructed from either but it is not both

You don't need to know how it was drawn, both ways make that shape so it isn't "is" one of them

@Mayube Pedant!

@RadvylfPrograms Actually I'm more of a nit-picker

lol

The lumper points out that both of them, and the volcano itself, are just rock

Nice-looking mushroom, now why does it have wires attacked to the sides? /s

My position: Both an irregular decagram and a pentagram can be filled in to form a chat star. Thus, referring to a chat star as a "pentagon" is reasonable.

I think this is reasonable.

@RadvylfPrograms Both Mac and Windows can be used to form a computer. Thus, referring to a windows laptop as a "macbook" is reasonable. ;p

(yes I'm aware that analogy doesn't actually hold because macbook also implies apple branding and the like)

But a particularl windows laptop can't be formed from either Mac or Windows :p

@RadvylfPrograms I guess ultimately it comes down to "is the method used to create X relevant, if multiple methods can independently achieve an identical X". I would argue the answer is yes in the real world, and no in math

I'd argue no in the real world if they're truly identical

The real world is too imperfect for true identicality at a human scale

Well then you mean "is the method used to create X relevant, if multiple methods can independently achieve something similar to one another", which is totally different

@RadvylfPrograms which brings us back to the core problem with math: It's too perfect for our imperfect world:P

I'll go to the github page for math and PR a change that makes + add a random 0.001% change to its output

@Nobody why did you ping me if you are asking everyone in chat..

@RadvylfPrograms To make math compatible with the real world's imperfections, you need to choose some tolerance threshold below which imperfections are ignored. At that point you're just "pretending" that the real world is perfect

Oh, true. Hmm, let's just replace math witn engineering.

@RadvylfPrograms Now that I can get behind

which brings us back to: If injection molding and 3d printing can both produce an identical (for our purposes) plastic star, does it matter which method was used to create the star?

I think this is rather far from the question of "is a star a pentagon" :p

@RadvylfPrograms well it's the broader question of "does it matter whether the star is a pentagon or a decagon if the end result is functionally identical?"

Well I don't particularly care about that question :p

@RadvylfPrograms that seemed to be the core of your argument though

Then I didn't clearly communicate my argument

My point is that there is no "right" way to make a filled in star. Since both of those methods do it, in informal language, "a star is a pentagon" and "a star is a decagon" are both reasonable statements.

Bringing in stuff about "the real world" or "functionally identical" is totally pointless

@Nobody Which one? I've read this one