The Nineteenth Byte - 2022-05-10 (page 3 of 4)

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caird coinheringaahing

5:00 AM

There are 4 posts in our site history that score over 1000; 2 are incredible works of programming art, one is the inspiration for one of those pieces of art, and another is a ripoff of a more interesting answer that doesn't even bother to golf their answer in the slightest

@AidenChow The question was on the HNQ for like a week IIRC. That was the first proper question that "revealed" us to the rest of the network - before that, we were sort of a hidden site that did what we wanted in our corner

wow

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Kind of. Well worth a read, if you've got a spare 15-20 mins:

40

Q: CGCC Blog Post #2: The history of PPCG and CGCC

We recently turned 10 years old. Unfortunately, we didn't really realise and therefore didn't really celebrate or even mark the occasion. But, it got me thinking about the history of the site, and now that the site blog is a thing, I thought I'd write up a brief (or rather, not so brief) history ...

discussion cgcc-blog

speaking of that, i should see if i can find some time to write up a blog post sometime

it is... somewhat dead

caird coinheringaahing

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I never expected it to stick around for a while, but we do now have an avenue for people to post blog posts if they feel like it

why are there so less people writing blogd

is there any limitations of who can write it

caird coinheringaahing

5:11 AM

Not really. If you have a topic that relates to the site, you are welcome to write a blog post about it. Just post it to meta with the cgcc-blog and discussion tags

ok

caird coinheringaahing

It does have to be related to the site tho, and something that people here are likely to be interested in

cgcc's definition of "question" is so strange lol

@cairdcoinheringaahing what do you recommend

caird coinheringaahing

And, you can post it here for proof-reading/interest check before posting

i was thinking of <my first improssion of cg> or sth

*impres

caird coinheringaahing

5:12 AM

@NumberBasher I know, I've spent years trying to work on this

is there any way to print ""hello world" without using h or e or...

?

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher There's a list of ideas here. That said, I would really like to see a "first impressions" blog post

@NumberBasher most likely, yes

i reloaded cgcc on my phone and i got logged out o_o

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher Brainfuck, only uses the characters +-[<>.,]

5:14 AM

@AidenChow how? you cant use ord and chr and even print

@cairdcoinheringaahing oops, meant to say python

forgot

caird coinheringaahing

Python is turing complete in 6 characters

chrex1+ ?

Unrelated String

not that that bears on i/o capabilities ;)
but it still feels like there should be some way

no wait

you cant use print or ord or chr... barely usable

no open either

caird coinheringaahing

5:15 AM

Sorry, 7 characters:

45

A: Fewest (distinct) characters for Turing Completeness

Python 2, 7 characters exc="%\n Any Python 2 program can be encoded using these 7 characters (\n is newline). Constructing arbitrary strings We can perform concatenation by repeatedly applying the substitution operator % on a single string. For example, if a=1, b=2, c=3, "%d%%d%%%%d" % a %...

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there could be some way to gradually gain letters jsfuck style

but you cant use "e"...

caird coinheringaahing

You can, but using % in Python 2 + exec

Unrelated String

**e ** xec

yeah but i think the restriction here was to not use any characters in hello world

Unrelated String

5:17 AM

what the fuck is the markdown engine doing holy shit

caird coinheringaahing

Use __

maybe take out the space after e

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino hmm

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@AidenChow i added it

oh lol

idk then

lemme try

e

5:18 AM

ah i logged back in.

lol it worked :P

Unrelated String

**`e`**`xec`

caird coinheringaahing

%x gets you e

Unrelated String

as in bold the e and nothing else inside code formatting

oh yeah that works

caird coinheringaahing

'%x'%14 == 'e'

5:19 AM

what is %x anyways

caird coinheringaahing

Wait, just use %c

Unrelated String

@AidenChow hex formatting

oh yeah that is a thing

lmao

caird coinheringaahing

(%c*12)%[whatever the char points of hello world are]

erm... eish

hmm

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and you can get print from `_

5:21 AM

but how do you print it

eish

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__builtins__ somehow probably

caird coinheringaahing

No, you can't

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oh the l

yeah nvm

uhhhh

caird coinheringaahing

tio.run/##K67MTcrPyUzWLagsycjP@w8EAA

My friend proved that out can't output anything in python without e or r

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sad

5:23 AM

why every time i think of stack exchange I think of stack overflow...

caird coinheringaahing

If you count returning at outputting, I think you can

how

you cant use "e"

caird coinheringaahing

reimplement a builtin dunder function

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@cairdcoinheringaahing tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/…

aka double underscore black magic only used for obfuscating code

caird coinheringaahing

5:24 AM

int.__sub__ e.g

my drafts are going to be here probably

txtpad.cn/CGSE

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString For e and r, fairs, I may be misremembering. But for Hello, World!? That's a nice looking l you've got there :P

@NumberBasher maybe?

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the l is still an issue for hello world yeah lol

python code in the output tab

5:25 AM

wow this could seriously make a good challenge

but it would be confined to python

bad bad

caird coinheringaahing

Easy proof that python can't output without letters

@NumberBasher Not necessarily. Sometimes, language specific challenges are more interesting when language specific, rather than open to all

oh wait r isnt allowed....

@PyGamer0 yah same thing

and hello world also means no import and no functions I think

caird coinheringaahing

e and c are both in hex range, so you can build exec, but you can't actually use it ಠ_ಠ

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lmao

5:28 AM

i can solve it in flax :p

% flax C
      72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33
>>>
Hello, World!

i can solve it in brainfuck

that's too easy...

@PyGamer0 "flax" has an l

:-)

@NumberBasher thats the zsh prompt

caird coinheringaahing

what about sys.stdout?

Nah, no way of doing import sys

the actual code is 72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33

@PyGamer0 ok

Unrelated String

5:29 AM

yeah

also sys.stdout has o

@cairdcoinheringaahing :-) I am so evil

caird coinheringaahing

I give up, pretty sure there's no way of outputting Hello, World! in Python without using those letters

The only way I can think of is allowing output by returning

Wait, no, that doesn't work :/

@cairdcoinheringaahing how

yah

caird coinheringaahing

Wait, yes it does

5:31 AM

you'd have to return...

yield?

no either

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still has e

@cairdcoinheringaahing how

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lambda has l

yah

caird coinheringaahing

int.__sub__ = ('%c'*13) % [code points of 'Hello, World!']

5:31 AM

def has e

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ahhhhhhh

except... is that legal?

code points is what

like

caird coinheringaahing

All the code points are digits

72,101,108,108,111,44,32,87,111,114,108,100,33

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like i just tried setting int.__sub__ and it did not let me lmao

5:33 AM

hum what if I said "Hello, world! " like you can't even have "," or " "

:::::::::::--------))))))))))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/ATO/code", line 1, in <module>
    int.__sub__=1
TypeError: cannot set '__sub__' attribute of immutable type 'int'

caird coinheringaahing

Ah, fuck

actually make that "!" at the end into "."

so you can't even do brainfuck

caird coinheringaahing

It's impossible in Python then

Unrelated String

completely and utterly

5:34 AM

yah...

can anyone find a language where it works?

caird coinheringaahing

I still think I can get a return value in Python

(+link

@cairdcoinheringaahing how without functions

caird coinheringaahing

Idk, but I think you can :P

@NumberBasher Jelly

link?

@NumberBasher eZ in flax (C flag)

33⍪100⍪108⍪114⍪111⍪87⍪32⍪44⍪111⍪108⍪108⍪101⍪72

caird coinheringaahing

5:36 AM

Wait, no, easier: Stuck, 0 bytes:

eish...

hahaha

@cairdcoinheringaahing lol

eish... what about not-esolangs

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~~i was about to say js, but then you clarified no esolangs~~

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher Jelly :P

5:37 AM

you know what

flax P:

@NumberBasher what?

nothing

£_€

caird coinheringaahing

I have 2 ways with Jelly

eish...

byw for now

5:39 AM

byw

caird coinheringaahing

first and second, both 17 bytes

Ignore that large number in the arguments, it's left over from earlier :P

Vyxal has kHwhich doesn't bypass the restricted source though

Are spaces allowed?

caird coinheringaahing

H

why does it tell me JoKing editted codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/247065/… 1hr ago?

or does it mean he opened it?

i got it in ngn/k

ato.pxeger.com/…

5:43 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing however you can not use H

(hopefully)

yeah it works

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher JoKing cast the last reopen vote

ngn/k: `0:0x48656c6c6f2c20576f726c6421

ok

on the bottom it says Question eligible for bounty in 21 hours

what does that mean

funny that the hex of "Hello, World!" has no e

5:45 AM

OH NO

Print "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"...

:-)

erm

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher Anyone with 75 rep or more can offer up an amount of rep on a question, saying "If you answer this question, and I like your answer, I will give you this much rep". You lose the rep, but give it to someone of your choosing. (it gets more complicated if the question is unanswered). However, you can't start this until 2 days (48 hours) after you post the question

@NumberBasher ez

@NumberBasher ngn/k is a practical language..

caird coinheringaahing

For more: codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/bounty

@NumberBasher flax C:

116,104,101,32,113,117,105,99,107,32,98,114,111,119,110,32,102,111,120,32,106,117,109,112,115,32,111,118,101,114,32,116,104,101,32,108,97,122,121,32,100,111,103

ok

bye for now

5:48 AM

o/

Vyxal, 32 bytes

what is the

daily reputation cap

caird coinheringaahing

You can't earn more than 200 reputation every 24 hours

oh

caird coinheringaahing

The only exceptions are bounties and if your answer is accepted

Keeps things more balanced :P

5:51 AM

else 500 bounties have no use

except burn some money

caird coinheringaahing

Generally, bounties here are used as a reward

So, if you found an especially good answer, you might start a bounty, specifically to reward that answer

hmm...

why do you want to min 50 idu

caird coinheringaahing

Mainly cause the intervals are every 50 rep from 50 to 500

So you can't do 89...

that's so sad

i mistyped Radvylf as Radvfly

caird coinheringaahing

5:58 AM

> On May 7th 2014, Doorknob was officially given a diamond, something he's kept for the past 7 years as he's competently moderated the site through the rest of the events I'll be recounting

Do I need to edit this? :/

why?

why some q delete your ans if it is ur first... hum

caird coinheringaahing

Doorknob is no longer a moderator

@NumberBasher We discourage accepting an answer, but, if you do accept, you should accept the winning answer

no i mean

@cairdcoinheringaahing probably

69

A: Patience, young "Padovan"

Jelly, 10 bytes 9s3’Ẓæ*³FṀ Try it online! 1-indexed. Computes the largest element of: $$\begin{bmatrix}0&0&1 \\ 1&0&1 \\ 0&1&0\end{bmatrix}^n$$ where the binary matrix is conveniently computed as: $$\begin{bmatrix}\mathsf{isprime}(0)&\mathsf{isprime}(1)&\mathsf{isprime}(2) \\ \mathsf{isprime}(3)

^ 69 net votes funny

6:02 AM

you are so funny...

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Actually, rereading other parts, I think it's fine to leave as a "accurate when written" style post

yah

but i think you should add a ""little notice

like a sub

caird coinheringaahing

> the still ongoing Add a language to a polyglot

Don't need a footnote there (just yet) :P

@RadvylfPrograms chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/61073726#61073726

just a reminder :P

also lotm going pretty successful i think, tho only like 4 ppl posted answers. is that usually the case for other lotms

caird coinheringaahing

It ranges

6:09 AM

CMC: Output the square root of 2 accurately up to 1000 digits.

caird coinheringaahing

We've had very dry lotms, vs super active ones. Generally, getting 2 users who hadn't used the language before is a good LOTM

@PyGamer0 Vyxal, 2√k1Ḟ: Try it Online!

this is the current unfinished draft for the aforementioned blog

txtpad.cn/CGSE

@lyxal got 2 bytes :p

(Sorry for the Chinese Interface tho

6:12 AM

@PyGamer0 in flax, yes, because you have a flag for it

make sure you command/control + s and save it

@PyGamer0 which I can only presume is the point of the cmc - to demonstrate a weird flex

@emanresuA more like Scheme

probably:p

CMC: Print cookie\n forever

@lyxal can tell where this is going

you frickers with your highly specialised cmcs smh

caird coinheringaahing

6:14 AM

@NumberBasher Looks interesting. One thing I would add: it never hurts to add a bit more to everything :P There's always a sentence or 2 you can add to improve something

@emanresuA lol Vyxal: 🍪

speaking of esolangs, ive always never gotten how custom character encoding stuff works, like how can u make certain characters be 1 byte and how can i make my own encoding

It's not that certain characters are 1 byte, it's that the 1 byte is represented by that certain character

I've been attempting much more cursed things lol

caird coinheringaahing

Basically, you add a function that opens a file, reads the bytes from that file (aka, numbers from 0, to 255) and processes those numbers

6:17 AM

At least, that's how it works in the world of SBCS

@AidenChow github.com/PyGamer0/flax/blob/main/flax/encoding.py

(copied from vyxal)

@cairdcoinheringaahing ok

^^^^^ but it's a bit more ocmplicated than that with partial bytes

Special children like Radvylf and EmanresuA have a habit of fractional bytes for some reason

It's fun!

6:18 AM

i can finally add a new q

@emanresuA It always ends up being the same as SBCS

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal A 512 byte code page is perfectly reasonable, alright!

@cairdcoinheringaahing see now that's okay, but I'm talking about things like 5/34th code pages and stuff

esolang idea: use DBCS

0

Q: Matrix Meets ASCII Art

Matrix Meets ASCII Art A binary matrix represents a shape in the plane. 1 means a unit square at that position. 0 means nothing. The background is 0. For example, the array [[0,1,0],[0,0,1],[1,1,1]] represents the following shape: o----o |////| |////| o----o----o |//...

ascii-art geometry

caird coinheringaahing

6:19 AM

Someone remind me on August 28th to add a "1 Year Later" to my History Of blog post

whats sbcs

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Been there, done that

@AidenChow Single byte character set

@cairdcoinheringaahing Radvylf and I have theorized that the perfect size is somewhere around 9 bits

@cairdcoinheringaahing what was your result?

6:20 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing better say that sometime later

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 It's okay

in The Tarpit, May 5 at 17:14, by PyGamer0

esolang idea: super fast ascii only stack based language similar to vyxal and factor. (with a standard library)

@AidenChow examples you might know include cp437 and extended ascii

finally i have a question with a positive vote

:-)

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 github.com/cairdcoinheringaahing/Orst-Geo

6:21 AM

@AidenChow the point is that programs could be represented as raw bytes or hexdumps but instead we use nice looking characters

thanks caird

And as I've said many times before, Jelly with a 255-char codepage would beat Jelly 99.9% of the time

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher If you thanked me for every edit I made, you'd thank me over 1000 times :P Don't bother :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing But I can thank you for every edit you made on my question

At least for now

oops

caird coinheringaahing

6:26 AM

@NumberBasher if you want :P I edit so much that you'll end up thanking me far more than I deserve :P

Yes, I do have that saved as a chat shortcut :P

£_€

where do you see your priviliged

@NumberBasher codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/privileges

@pxeger On DLosc's behalf, would you mind adding tinylisp 2 (and maybe the original while you're at it) to ATO?

@AidenChow thnx

caird coinheringaahing

6:28 AM

@NumberBasher You just got the ability to edit community wiki psots, and create chat rooms

@cairdcoinheringaahing what's the use

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher of what?

how do i create a chatroom

or edit a com wiki

@NumberBasher chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/new

@AidenChow thnx

caird coinheringaahing

6:30 AM

@NumberBasher Click "Edit" on a post that says "Community Wiki", or on chat.stackexchange.com/…, scroll down to "Create New room"

@NumberBasher any answer marked community wiki, u can edit

ok

why would i want to create a new chat

@NumberBasher if u wanted to discuss smth but its cluttering the main room too much, or is an offtopic convo so u can move it to a new room

like there is a cgcc gaming chat room for example

@AidenChow i decide that is useless and I will add a bounty like 20 hrs later

probably

@NumberBasher a bounty on ur own q? uk it costs rep right?

6:34 AM

@AidenChow yah but i think i just want 50 rep... :-)

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher You can't award bounties to yourself

@NumberBasher um i think theres been a misunderstanding, u r paying ur own rep to create a bounty

@cairdcoinheringaahing i mean i only need 50 rep

i think i didnt phrase it good

just found my id is 111XXX

@emanresuA add it to the list!

@emanresuA github.com/attempt-this-online/attempt-this-online/issues/24

6:52 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TSP What is TSP? Travelling Salesman Problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem tl;dr !!! The Salesman goes in a loop So, you return to the place you start with. Why TSP? TSP is NP-complete. Thus, it would be nice if we can find a way to solve TSP the fastest. :-) Sample In...

It just occured to me that caird and JoKing have the same rep rounded to 1/10 k

when i posted this but now it isnt

wait no

my eye malfunctioned

7:10 AM

Updated txtpad.cn/CGSE

topic change: github.com/PyGamer0/k/blob/main/a.c

0

Q: My First Impression on Code Golf Stack Exchange

My First Impression on Code Golf Stack Exchange How I got here I saw a few sites of Stack Exchange elsewhere. Exactly where I forgot, but it made the first impression of Stack Overflow to me: they were indeed very sophisticated. I learned about Code Golf Stack Exchange (which I will shorten to CG...

discussion cgcc-blog

7:28 AM

Someone give me some advise, thanks

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TSP What is TSP? Travelling Salesman Problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem tl;dr !!! The Salesman goes in a loop So, you return to the place you start with. Why TSP? TSP is NP-complete. Thus, it would be nice if we can find a way to solve TSP the fastest. :-) Sample In...

@NumberBasher "Input format is exactly like that above." any reason why the input format is that restrictive ? why not allow a list of lists or something similar ?

@AidenChow ok

Viewed 10 times means 10 times or 10 users

I just found out I am a member for one month

when do you think someone will answer it (not as if i need an answer, let's just guess)

7

Q: Matrix Meets ASCII Art

A binary matrix represents a shape in the plane. 1 means a unit square at that position. 0 means nothing. The background is 0. For example, the array [[0,1,0],[0,0,1],[1,1,1]] represents the following shape: o----o |////| |////| o----o----o |////| |////| o-...

code-golf ascii-art geometry binary-matrix

what's the difference between StackOverflow and StackExchange?

7:44 AM

@NumberBasher ~~2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours 2 minutes 2 seconds 2 milliseconds 2 microseconds 2 nanoseconds~~

@NumberBasher nothing

Unrelated String

@NumberBasher se is the broader network

^

@PyGamer0 what do you mean

Unrelated String

also i think there are some ways in which so is less integrated with the network than the other sites are

@UnrelatedString stack overflow is the program specific one?

Unrelated String

7:45 AM

it's one of them

but yeah

@UnrelatedString one of which like SO, CG, and what

Unrelated String

code review, software engineering

ok

Why do I keep getting upvotes but not answers?

cos your questions are somewhat difficult/tedious

@NumberBasher it takes time to write answers...

7:46 AM

One scores 7, the other scores -1 (once was -7)

votes are easier to give then answers :p

@PyGamer0 ok

@JoKing ok

^^^

@lyxal ok again

@PyGamer0 ok

i'mma gon say something deep: 0 (if you know you know :p)

7:47 AM

I think the Matrix ASCII one is not THAT hard

Yet ANOTHER upvote

@NumberBasher what, is that bad

u dont want upvotes??

How do I add my language to tio?

caird coinheringaahing

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/136176/…

@NumberBasher what lang?

caird coinheringaahing

Room for lyxal's lecture

7:52 AM

@AidenChow I mean, I feel bad when there's upvotes but no answers :-)

also tio is outdated i think, not adding any new langs

Unrelated String

more upvotes than answers is generally a sign of high quality :)

^

@cairdcoinheringaahing just asking

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher In short, you don't

Unrelated String

7:52 AM

dennis has been having
issues
for the last couple years

@cairdcoinheringaahing ok

@UnrelatedString wdym

Unrelated String

but we've also got a few alternatives that sprung up in the last few months

if u get enough upvotes it can even be one of the qs for this deadlineless bounty: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5243/…

Unrelated String

~~now for the real reason scheme is so impure, supporting lazy evaluation~~

what is scheme

Unrelated String

8:00 AM

i really did not expect there to actually be a "second question on the second asignment"

*s

8:32 AM

→ 518 messages moved to We love us some Daniel

8:48 AM

518 msgs moved, damn thats a lot

^

9:28 AM

user image

9:39 AM

meta

9:59 AM

Ah frick

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