The Comms Room

David

9:04 PM

Jeebus christ

My boss is going to be gone starting Wed the 22nd and not back until the 10th

HopelessN00b

Party!!!

Right?

David

e-party

you are invited

84104

Hookers and blow for everyone!

David

im not sure you can find blow on the internet

but hookers for sure!

Adrian

@David Heh. Sure you can.

David

9:08 PM

I guess

HopelessN00b

It's one of my e-commerce sites, for example. E-blow.com

Adrian

I suppose I ought to refrain from further corrupting the youth though....

HopelessN00b

Strangely, the careers page gets more hits. Maybe "e-blowjobs.com" is confusing some websurfers.

3

Adrian

Heh. I got some spam this afternoon that passed SPF and was from a Tbird client.

Michael Hampton

@David Yes, you can buy blow on the internet. Look up 'Silk Road'.

David

9:22 PM

@MichaelHampton the video game?

Michael Hampton

@David No, The Underground Website Where You Can Buy Any Drug Imaginable.

HopelessN00b

Now if they could only replace bitcoin with something that doesn't suck...

David

lol

Michael Hampton

Like buttcoins?

lsiunsuex

wtf. whats wrong with this? cat | tail error_log

wanna watch for new entries...

Michael Hampton

9:27 PM

@lsiunsuex There's an extra cat | in there? And a missing -f on tail?

HopelessN00b

Maybe someone's more into dogs than cats?

lsiunsuex

got it, thank you.

i like to keep my cat from running by holding his tail with my foot, but i've been told thats mean (something about arteries running through it) so i've stopped since.

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Seriously though, what's wrong with bitcoins?

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton it's a "currency" based on burning CPU cycles to do non-work?

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 I asked what was wrong with it.

voretaq7

9:36 PM

@MichaelHampton well that seems as fundamentally flawed basis for currency as "The full faith and credit of a government nobody has faith in or will extend further credit to"...

HopelessN00b

Actually, not so much that as the horribly flawed deign decisions... it being deflationary, and massively rewarding early adopters.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 You come up with a way to send gold over the Internet, and I'll be all over it. :)

@HopelessN00b Neither of those are flaws.

HopelessN00b

What incentive is there for me to adopt it knowing how heavily it favors the people who "mined" 90% of the avaialable bcs in existance?

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton You find a way to make Bitcoin something I can spend external currency to purchase at a known exchange rate and I'll be all over it :)

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 You mean like mtgox.com ?

Zoredache

9:39 PM

We should make StackExchangeCoins.

HopelessN00b

Yeah they are. You got one guy who mined almost 20% of the total possible bitcoins by installing it in a datacenter he admined. How's that a selling point for a currency?

Zoredache

You get 1 coin for every 10 upvotes...

Michael Hampton

@Zoredache It already exists: bitcoin.SE is in beta

voretaq7

the concept of "Waste some CPU cycles and get money" is nonsensical to me - It's like saying "connect a space heater and in addition to the heat you're getting I'll give you a penny for every 20 hours it runs

HopelessN00b

It's, at best, a lateral move from government currency. I'm holding out for something better.

Zoredache

9:40 PM

@MichaelHampton I don't want a site about bitcoins. I want a way for people to convert useful assistance into money.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton yes, but do they let me get my bitcoins back out in $_other_currency yet?

Michael Hampton

@Zoredache Ah, gotcha, I misread it at first.

voretaq7

@Zoredache we call that "consulting" :-)

Michael Hampton

@voretaq Sure, exchange has always been two-way.

HopelessN00b

They do. Bubble popped a bit, but you can exchange them for rel money

Zoredache

9:41 PM

@voretaq7 Yeah, but I want consulting minus all the government regulation, contracts, taxes, and that other stupid stuff.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton ok. I still have a problem with the fundamental concept, but at least it's closer to being a currency

Zoredache

I just want to be able to help people and get money.

2

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 I have a problem with a currency based on military might, but that's just me.

HopelessN00b

@zoredache exactly why I moonlight as a hitman.

84104

@MichaelHampton Currency is just another barter good unless it's backed by force.

Michael Hampton

9:43 PM

@Zoredache So, perhaps, in the next iteration of SE, people can offer bounties in Bitcoins?

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton I have a problem with currency based on "you wasted electricity (and the resources required to produce it), have a dollar."

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 That "waste" also secures transactions by making it impossible to double spend.

voretaq7

and all currencies are inherently based on military might :-)

@MichaelHampton that's a great feature, but I'm not sure why that earns me more money...

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 The bitcoins have to get into circulation somehow. As time passes the reward for doing so decreases exponentially.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton which is where buying in with external currencies comes into play -- bitcoin needs a reserve currency :)

HopelessN00b

9:48 PM

Oh, my hurt is braining. Think we just had the worst ever question posted.

David

Link bro

HopelessN00b

On my droid, linkage is difficult. Why does amazon make you secure your instance with a private key and not a public one? Ow, ow, ow, ow.

84104

-1

Q: Why does Amazon release private keys instead of public keys?

My brain is wrapped around the axle on public and private keys. Why does Amazon EC2 require you to download private keys? Doesn't the idea behind public/private key suggest that Amazon should be require you to download a public one? Further, if I set up an SFTP server for a customer to use, shoul...

Zoredache

@HopelessN00b What part of it do you really not like? PKI isn't the worlds most easy to understand subject.

Michael Hampton

The lack of research effort?

OK, gonna try to go answer this question now. Send your bitcoin questions to bitcoin.SE :)

Zoredache

9:53 PM

But the lack of research effort isn't unusually bad. Not bad enough to call it the worst question ever.

84104

All my knowledge comes from the internet, man pages and testing. Any question I can answer shows a lack of research effort.

HopelessN00b

@zoredache the basic... why don't I secure something with a "public" key? Like I said, it hurts my thinky place.

YYou don't need to know much about PKI, so much as the meaning of words, I think.

Adrian

Nearly anything involving cryptography is going to be not exactly straighforward though.

Zoredache

@HopelessN00b So assuming his subject is accurate, why would Amazon have a user download a private key?

84104

@Zoredache As opposed to locally generate a key pair and upload the public key?

HopelessN00b

9:56 PM

So that they'll have it, and be able to access their instance, would be my guess.

Zoredache

Right. Or perhaps they should just require you to provide a public key when you create a new instance. Honestly, it sounds to me like Amazon has a slightly screwed up system, and it is confusing him.

HopelessN00b

Alright, that's a fair point. They do it that way so they can be sure the user actually has and retains the private key, though. Otherwise they get slammed with people who blew away the private key and dunno why the public key isn't enough.

David

im off work, later bros

HopelessN00b

I went to work once. It didn't really agree with me.

Michael Hampton

Can I embed a YouTube video into my answer?

Adrian

10:11 PM

@HopelessN00b it's a little overrated. Getting a paycheck is nice though.

HopelessN00b

I dunno. I still think I'd prefer the very large duffel bag stuffed with $20 bills. Unfortunately, those a re lot harder to find than paychecks. :(

84104

@MichaelHampton You can try. If it's not too flippant, it'll probably stay.

Michael Hampton

►

It's, uh, relevant to the answer?

84104

@MichaelHampton Are you going after the canonical mail question by any chance?

Joel E Salas

tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/process-sub.html

This is the coolest thing ever

Zoredache

10:20 PM

@84104 Do you think posting "Outsource your email" would be a good answer?

HopelessN00b

Honestly, I'm not crazy about the way the question's worded. How do you reduce spam? Buy a Postini or Websense filter. 99.9999% of spam killed.

Honestly, that's all there is to it. If we want a cannonical "spam" question, it's gotta be a lot broader than what can be answered with getting an industry-leading spam filter.

voretaq7

grumble grumble I dislike leaving mod messages.

ewwhite

I was going to answer with Barracuda and outline the reasons.

HopelessN00b

All the other stuff mentioned just doesn't matter when you can get Google to block all but 1 in 100,000 or 1 in 1 million spam emails sent your way.

ewwhite

I've sold and implemented dozens of them...

voretaq7

10:25 PM

@HopelessN00b You can talk about some of the basic items that a filter should do (RBL check, SPF check, DKIM check, Bayesian check, etc.)

ewwhite

and with cloud filtering available, I don't even have to invest in the hardware anymore.

SPF is not part of my attack on spam...

HopelessN00b

Yeah, they're nice too. Postini and Websense though, so much easier. Much less configuration.

ewwhite

the rest, DNS lookups, reputation, etc...

Michael Hampton

@84104 Yes.

ewwhite

well, with barracuda's cloud service, I don't even need to do bayesian training anymore

voretaq7

10:26 PM

@ewwhite You use a Barracuda? It's part of their default thing to do

and just because you're not doing the bayesian training locally doesn't mean that they're not doing it on their end and giving you the sieve to run the mail through :)

ewwhite

I think Barracuda Central relies on their own data more than SPF.

voretaq7

@ewwhite the last time I used a Barracuda was ~3 years ago, but it did SPF checks and tweaked a weight based on it.

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 But it doesn't really matter. Law of diminishing returns. They get so much of the spam that all the custom filters and rules you can add in maybe block a few spam emails a year, literally.

ewwhite

But a nice secret is that anyone can use the Barracuda RBL.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b yes, but if someone's asking how you get rid of spam the (complete) answers is "You do what the major providers do: <insert list>"

Telling someone "Use a Barracuda" or "Use Postini" doesn't tell them the how. There's a blog post about this...

HopelessN00b

10:28 PM

I guess. I still think the better answer is "let the guys who block billions of spam emails a day block your unwanted inbound mail too."

voretaq7

Server Fault Blog: Press the Green Button Twice

Kyle Brandt on June 09, 2011

Most people in the system administration field I have talked to agree that the professionalization of system administration is happening faster. System administrators have always been paid, that isn’t what I mean by professionalization. What I do mean is that more leaders are emerging, participating in local groups, blogging, and participating on sites like Server Fault. The end results is that the standard of the profession is going up. That doesn’t mean that there hasn’t always been great people — but I believe the average expected expertise is increasing in the field. …

@HopelessN00b That's certainly how you should open (or close) the answer

ewwhite

but seriously, it's at the point where I pay $8/user/year for Barracuda cloud filtering.

voretaq7

but sysadmins are supposed to know what's going on under the hood. Otherwise fuck it, let's all just do DevOps.

ewwhite

and the clients with appliances still have theirs running

yes, we need to know what it's doing... so the essentials of SCL or bayesian DB's and spamassassin scores are important.

but I could easily see a new generation of admin who never had to touch any of that...

lsiunsuex

you mother fucker.

84104

10:30 PM

@Zoredache His name is MAILER-DAEMON, last of his tribe. He is also known as... the Postmaster!

voretaq7

@ewwhite well you don't need to know the dirty internals of how those work

lsiunsuex

i'm going to scream

voretaq7

but you should know that this thing called a Bayesian filter is running

and you should know that it uses this thing called a DNS RBL to identify known spam spewers and tell them to get back behind the iron curtain :)

HopelessN00b

@voretaq well, shouldn't we all just say "fuck it" and do devops? More money. Less hours, less mental effort required...

But maybe I will punch up an answer if work's dreadfully slow tomorrow. I can have another simplistic, undeservedly high-voted answer to loathe. It's been almost two full weeks since my last one of those.

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b now c'mon don't you want a Legendary badge? :-)

HopelessN00b

10:33 PM

It would be a shame to let my 3% progress towards that badge go to waste. :p

lsiunsuex

2 days trying to figure out why i couldn't upload a photo from an ios app i'm writing to the server over php - 30 different tutorials, test, test, retest (cant take a photo in the simulator - need to test on a real device) just to find out php.ini max file upload size set to 2mb and the average photo size taken on an iPad is 2.9mb EVEN THOUGH i set max file upload size in php code just to make sure. change max upload size to 10mb - upload a photo - solid.

HopelessN00b

PHP... proof that excellence is not a required component of success.

Michael Hampton

How to make a better user is outside the scope of this answer. Sorry.

84104

@lsiunsuex Something doesn't add up. You're using PHP for the upload on the client side?

lsiunsuex

i'm to burned out to figure out if thats a dig or not

voretaq7

10:36 PM

ok, go-home time :-P BBL

lsiunsuex

sorry, ios on one side, httpclientrequest to post to server via a .php app

posting the photo to a php app - not uploading via ftp / sftp

the client is the app in this case.

84104

@lsiunsuex Don't php.ini settings take effect before any logic checks you would invoke in a .php file?

lsiunsuex

what, should i use if not PHP ? ruby on rails? a framework on top of a framework on top of a framework? Java? ha. haha.

Zoredache

Sounds to me like your PHP code didn't have enough error checking in it. I am pretty sure that is something that it will report an error for.

lsiunsuex

i thought settings in a php file took precidence over settings in the ini file

Jeff Ferland

10:39 PM

@mgorven Nothing like going to answer a question and then just upvoting you since you got there 10 minutes first.

mgorven

@JeffFerland :P

lsiunsuex

ini_set('max_upload_filesize', 8388608); inside of a php file should take effect over whats in the ini file - but it did not

84104

@lsiunsuex What's interpreting your php?

mgorven

@JeffFerland You win some, you lose some

Jeff Ferland

@mgorven Well, I'm losing across the board today. Darts?

mgorven

10:40 PM

@JeffFerland Yup

Zoredache

@lsiunsuex the server should take precedence, not what is in that code... The server settings are there to protect us from developers that do silly things.

lsiunsuex

sorry, i'm not explaining correctly. the ios app was taking a photo from the camera, sending it to a php file on the server over an http request. the code was fine - the setting in the ini file didn't account for the size a photo an ipad would take

like uploading a file from another html / php file - same mechanism

Zoredache

@lsiunsuex If you are telling me that, then I completely understand. I am saying that the server setting is more important then stuff in the php code.

BTW, you should check $_FILES['userfile']['error'] after any upload.

lsiunsuex

i always understood it the other way - whats in the code takes precidence over the ini - like an override -

thats why i was watching httpd/error_log - i saw the error come through the log - eventually the error went away but still no file on the server

which caused me to go look for the file upload settings in php

Zoredache

@lsiunsuex The reality actually sucks. It is a little of both. For some things the server config takes precedence, and for other things the php code wins.

But as a general rule, you should assume that the server config wins.

lsiunsuex

10:45 PM

no matter; it works now and i can finish by thursday. app still looks like shit, but atleast i can be ready for the event.

and php.ini has had a max file upload size of 2mb since its inception back in the late 90's - um... shits changed over the last few years, no ? :)

yes, i know, you shouldn't have a huge file upload size

just saying.

Zoredache

@lsiunsuex Actually I believe that if you get the source directly from php.net, it comes at 8MB these days. But may people packaging php for distros still have a small value.

lsiunsuex

whatever came down through a yum install

84104

@lsiunsuex RHEL/CentOS live in the past anyway, no?

Zoredache

Yeah, so don't blame PHP, until you actually check the official source.

lsiunsuex

yes, centos lives in the past - should have know

i blame no one but myself for not combining through that god awful config file

now i gatta figure why i crash on ios 6...

Adrian

10:58 PM

Uh, RH/CentOS is on 5.3.3 and PHP is up to 5.4.6

Granted, the security stuff is probably backported

lsiunsuex

we've had this discussion before - rather than compiling from source, decided to stay on par with centos / RH releases

as i told my dentist partner - i am not a god damn miracle worker - do you want me to program today or be a sys admin today? :) 1 f'ing thing at a time :)

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Good try.

ewwhite

I accidentally hit post...

editing.

Adrian

Oooh. Got a serious case of hot pants. Found a Wordpress plugin that allows integration with Active Directory.

INTEGRATE ALL THE THINGS

Jeff Ferland

@Adrian New! Manage AD from Wordpress! (<font size=-2>secure your themes</font>)

WesleyDavid

11:14 PM

@ewwhite Yo, can you hook a fellow up with a 48 port ProCurve?

ewwhite

@WesleyDavid yes

WesleyDavid

I got a skanky project that just needs 48 ports. Can be anything really. 10/100. Doesn't need to be fancy.

Got my email addy?

Adrian

@JeffFerland Internal website for staff. No access from outside.

An HR specialist just left a cookie on my desk. Hmmm. Wonder if it's been laced.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Just emailed your dot mac email address.

Or... wait... mac dot? Whatever. =P

Adrian

11:40 PM

Heh. Iron Mountain Digital got bought by HP......

Can scratch THAT vendor off the list now

I've been asking those guys for the past 6 months exactly what the state of their company was. They finally answered me question when a DIFFERENT sales person cold-called me with the new speal.

ewwhite

@wes How much $$$?

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