The Comms Room

Iain

8:00 PM

@WesleyDavid did you take a look at multitail ?

WesleyDavid

@Iain Briefly

Adrian

I'm thinking this was a bad idea. Was really hungry, and then proceeded to eat two Arby's sandwiches in 90 seconds.

Cole

@Adrian that made my stomach hurt

WesleyDavid

Looks visually cuter than tail -f log log log log but can't see something that blows my mind. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Adrian

@Cole A Beef 'n' Cheddar with Horsey Sauce is really quite good though.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

8:01 PM

@WesleyDavid no, thats about it. Tail multiple files without mixing logs.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Go back to work. Two words: VOMIT. RETRIBUTION.

Adrian

@WesleyDavid yeah, currently there's nothing left for me to do here except fill out my timesheet for the next 5 days and turn in my stuff next Friday.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian =/

Cole

@Adrian sounds like I would shit my pants after that.

Then again I have a very sensitive stomach

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Yeah, staying in touch with the cool folks like @Hyppy working on this project down there in FL too. There's more work here and I'd seriously work anywhere with those guys.

MDMarra

8:04 PM

@WesleyDavid so why were you crying about get-content -wait the other day?

Cole

@MDMarra because he's a cat, they cat everything.

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra get-content -wait doesn't show active content in a log file like everyone says it does. I've tailed IIS logs, windows update logs, etc. and it only shows the content at the time the file is opened, never streaming the content as it's written to the file.

MDMarra

uh

Adrian

@WesleyDavid So write your own in .Net?

WesleyDavid

@Adrian That's what it's looking like.

I think the last time I tried was PS 2.0, although I would swear I tried it at a PowerShell user group meeting last year with 3.0 and it still underwhelmed me.

Adrian

8:07 PM

@WesleyDavid One of my co-workers has a habit of writing his own utilities in .Net to duplicate what is available on any normal Linux box.

MDMarra

voretaq7

@Adrian That's a Microsoft tradition

Adrian

@voretaq7 Ah. I wouldn't know. Avoid the stuff for the most part.

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra 2012 - hmm... didn't try it on 2012, but that shouldn't make a difference.

MDMarra

shouldnt

i can try on 2008 r2

Adrian

8:09 PM

Fewer job opps in this town in Linux, but even fewer Linux people than there are jobs.

Kevin

@WesleyDavid Is Cygwin an option? It's a tiny Linux environment you install on a Windows box, including Bash and tail, et al.

Cole

lol double poop

WesleyDavid

@Kevin I hate cygwin more than I hate the windows tools (or lack of them) that make me consider cygwin.

@MDMarra Tested on an R2 box - works, but I wonder if there are certain types of means to write to a file that screw with get-content? There have been times when it's just opened the file and not shown new entries

Kevin

@WesleyDavid Can I have a digram of that sentence?

MDMarra

@WesleyDavid yeah not sure

voretaq7

8:14 PM

@Kevin Cygwin? Tiny?!

you have a VASTLY different definition of "tiny" than I do sir!

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 He's modest.

MDMarra

Cygwin in production? yuuuck

voretaq7

@MDMarra there's that too...

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra I'm a cat and even I draw that line. =P

In the sand.

For me to poop on!

Kevin

@MDMarra I agree, but it's already Windows...

MDMarra

8:16 PM

Windows is fine!

It's all of the entry level admins that give it a bad name

Cole

Windows can do some pretty cool shit

Kevin

I'll be back... There are chickens that need eating.

MDMarra

@Cole Like run Stack Exchange

Cole

I think sometimes people implement things crappily and then immediately say WINDOWS FUCKING SUCKS

freiheit

@Cole If you can't blame the hardware, blame the software.

Cole

8:19 PM

@freiheit god forbid you blame the admin or yourself even

freiheit

@Cole Well.... users, maybe... in a pinch...

Cole

@freiheit users always suck

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra I would also add that the closed nature of it makes troubleshooting and developing full solutions to problems very difficult in some situations. It is what it is, and I'm not going to argue open-source vs. proprietary because I think both are good and fine (shuttup Stallman!) but still, In the last two years I've had more roadblocks to creating things with Windows as a result of "just because" or "it's closed, we can't inspect it deeper"

freiheit

@Cole Same can be said of hardware. and software

WesleyDavid

Or the ever popular "You'll need a CAL for that!" or "Hello, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Enterprise License! He opens the doors that Ms. Standard License cant!"

@freiheit Computers suck.

MDMarra

8:21 PM

@WesleyDavid Meh. They've done away with a lot of the server licensing conundrums

Windows Server, System Center, and SQL Server licensing are all basically Datacenter or Standard now

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra I've noticed! That's really refreshing. The 2012 product line really opens the possibilities and I hope Microsoft learns from this and keeps it up.

MDMarra

Same features

Cole

@MDMarra so wait - it's either Datacenter or Standard?

MDMarra

yeah

the only difference is licensing

Cole

Interesting

MDMarra

8:23 PM

and when you license one system center product you license them all

Cole

There were murmers that they wanted me to upgrade our environment to 2012.

MDMarra

so if you get like 8 sockets of system center 2012 DC to do, say, ops manager for your servers, you can also do SCDPM, SCCM, etc etc for all of them as well

And Windows Server is the same, so if you get 8 sockets of datacenter for your 8 socket Virtualization cluster, you can run as many VMs as you please

Cole

@MDMarra huh, interesting

MDMarra

Generally, if you're 10:1 or denser, there's a cost savings

but of course, that depends on your license reseller and what pricing you qualify for

Cole

@MDMarra probably be ideal for us

to get off all the 2000/2003 shit that's virtualized.

MDMarra

8:27 PM

yeah

Cole

I'm sure that'll still cost a buttload though?

MDMarra

Like I said, 10:1 starts to be the tipping point

So it's expensive but not awful

Cole

I'm assuming that's a $20K+ project

MDMarra

4K list

roughly

per 2 sockets

1 license covers 2 sockets in a single machine

so assuming you have something standard like blades/rackmount boxes with 4 physical hosts with 2 sockets each, 4 licenses of DC would cover you

Cole

so it's based on sockets, not cores.

MDMarra

8:31 PM

yeah

Cole

That's not terrible

MDMarra

SQL Server is core based now, but Windows Server and System Center is socket-based

Cole

Our production cluster in 6 ESXi boxes

MDMarra

yeah if they're all dual socket, then you'd need 6 licenses on DC and you can run as many of any version of windows that you want on that cluster

it entitles you to 2012 and everything before it

Cole

Yeah they're all dual socket, so yeah about $24K

MDMarra

8:33 PM

And everything after it, if you keep SA on it

Cole

Hmm..

That's really not bad at all

Alright time to head home and speed clean before the gf gets ther

later d00ds

MDMarra

peace out

@Cole looks like list is actually $4,800 but no one pays list :)

So according to list pricing, there's actually cost saving when you're denser than 6:1

pauska

everyone and their mother is using datacenter licensing for windows these days when it comes to virtualisation

especially now when enterprise is gone

MDMarra

yep

WesleyDavid

8:48 PM

It's way more attractive from a licensing perspective than VMware, that's for sure.

Well, once you get past the VMware Essentials stage.

Then add in SCVMM, and a couple of DCs...

Matt Bear

ahh I feel better :)

MDMarra

@WesleyDavid VMM is weird

I'm still getting the hang of it

Matt Bear

I shouldnt of eaten that bunch of grapes last night....

you know those craps that you have to hold on to the toilet seat to keep yourself from flying off....

Mark Henderson

9:04 PM

@WesleyDavid - the QNAP model you asked about was the TS419. But you should avoid anything with an Atom CPU that an EEEPC would be embarrassed of.

David

9:14 PM

gonna kill myself

working on the old imac to prep it for giveaway

its fan is so loud and high-pitch

Journeyman Geek

lol

tiny fan?

David

probably

and the computer is like 10 years old

Chopper3

Too harsh? serverfault.com/q/494647/1435

Journeyman Geek

@David: If its worn out, you WILL know

its worth changing then, other than the fact that... its an imac

David

@JourneymanGeek its probably just clogged as shit

and we're giving it away for free, i'm not gonna mess w/ opening it

Journeyman Geek

9:18 PM

XD

I guess ;p

David

imacs are a bitch to open

Journeyman Geek

last computer I gave away ended up just the motherboard

David

not worth the effort

Journeyman Geek

I swapped the case, dad threw out the old one, damned thing promptly stopped working with the new owner ;p

mission

k471I}4!?iC6Y=5

2

Journeyman Geek

9:20 PM

catlike typing detected

mission

was supposed to be as stars ;)

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson Yeah, that's tough. Here's the one my client has in my cabinet:

@MarkHenderson That's not an atom proc, that's an ARM

You got yourself a 2 GHZ Marvell ARM processor.

And 512MB of RAM.

You're legit running iSCSI targets on a mobile phone processor and half a gig of RAM. Stop hanging around TomTom.

Cole

9:41 PM

@MDMarra I have no idea what we're doing for licensing now to be honest. I know we have some 2008 R2 servers, some 2008 and a fuckton of 2000/2003

WesleyDavid

@Cole Mmmm. Server 2000. It smells like... snifffff ...ahhhhh. Like the burning death of self respect.

FTP had better be running on them. And directly connected to the WAN.

Journeyman Geek

lol

and telnet

Adrian

Shoot me now.

Working with a co-workers on a SQL query to find a list of records from one table that have no matching record in another table. His first go at it works alright, but it manages to use 3 sub-selects to get there.

Zoredache

something wrong with a left join?

Adrian

@Zoredache Yeah, there's one of those in there too.

And somehow there were at least 2 and perhaps 3 iterations of count(*) on a given table. I think the 3rd one might even been on a temp table he created.

I was horrified.

Tanner

9:58 PM

@WesleyDavid Yeah... I just put an anti-virus on a 2000 box. It's our last 2000 server but happens to share all the user profiles.

Zoredache

@Adrian so is the schema really screwed up, or is he doing something the hard way I wonder.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@Adrian SELECT * from table1 where foreignkey_field NOT IN (select id FROM table2); ?

Adrian

@Zoredache Beyond the hard way. There were 3 fields that mattered. The common key and 1 field in each table.

@DennisKaarsemaker I was thinking the left join, but I'll tell him to try the NOT IN

WesleyDavid

@Tanner It's to the point where I don't know if there are many services that could run on a fully patched Server 2000 box that don't have a one-click payload exploit in metasploit.

Tanner

@WesleyDavid Well maybe the whole thing will choke and die and we'll have an excuse to get rid of it...

Dennis Kaarsemaker

10:08 PM

(yay, talking nonsense when I'm tired)

Adrian

@DennisKaarsemaker aw shucks. Just missed it.

Joel E Salas

@Adrian Yeah dude earlier he was saying virtualization killed his father

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@Adrian You didn't miss much, just me making a fool of myself :)

Matt Bear

@JoelESalas no, virtualization IS his father!!!!!

Adrian

@DennisKaarsemaker Pfft. It nearly qualifies as a hobby for me.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

10:09 PM

@Adrian SQL or making a fool of yourself? Not that those don't overlap...

Adrian

@DennisKaarsemaker The Latter. Better a Fool than a DBA.

pauska

@ewwhite man, that VNX reporting tool is golden. I'm going to ask our reseller for a price.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@Adrian DBA's are humans too!

Adrian

@DennisKaarsemaker Is a DBA's a self-referential DBA or is a DBA's a recursive DBA? I'd love to be a DBA of a DBA.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

Recursive DBA would be bad.

Adrian

10:16 PM

Is a recursive DBA a Database Consultant?

Iain

dbaception ?

mission

why u don't like DBAs? DBAs are awesome! :)

Adrian

@mission Actually, I don't mind DBAs. I dislike being confused with someone who's looking to become a DBA by worthless recruiters who don't have enough tech baseline to be able to read a job description with any deeper understanding than keyword matching.

WesleyDavid

@mission DBAs are awesome - it's just that so many people that occupy that job role are glorified sysadmins that don't know true database design, SQL, relational theory, informatics, or any number of other necessary things.

Adrian

@WesleyDavid And a whole lot of them in larger companies end up there because they bombed out of most Dev & SysAdmin work

WesleyDavid

10:22 PM

There's a difference between a database server administrator, and a database administrator and a database designer. Sometimes the same person can do all three things. Often it's just the latter two (which is fine). More often it's none of the three.

Adrian

@WesleyDavid And honestly, I'd only manage the 1st one with any facility, which is fine by me.

Matt Bear

@WesleyDavid I actually did very well in database and advanced database in school... Of course one of my many hats is DBA now, and the extent of my doing anything with it is scheduled maintanence and migrations...

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Yeah, when I was more into SQL Server stuff I was purely a database server admin, but I got close enough to the database administration, design, and development to have a healthy respect for people that go deep into that arena. I was offered the first true DBA position at the last place I worked at, just before leaving for AZ. I turned it down, but it did make me stop and think. It's a fascinating field.

It's also probably more woefully misunderstood than any other IT position, which makes for some really, really irritating treatment of the job and its responsibilities.

Matt Bear

I really wish I could do more with it, work with a good DBA for awhile and get profecient

WesleyDavid

...aaaand someone on a forum I patrol just called a GPL/MIT licensed projects "shareware" and regarded it with suspicion because he thought it was proprietary and the authors just give it away at no charge.

The hell is wrong with people.

Adrian

10:27 PM

Should tell him that 1985 just called the police and that he's being evicted and criminally-trespassed.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian I just emailed you the thread if it's of any interest.

Matt Bear

wooooooot, finally figured out what was wrong with my user profile sync service in sharepoint!

earned my pay today :p

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid illiteracy is rampant

WesleyDavid

It's not particularly interesting, but I hate seeing long in the tooth techs that haven't paid attention to developments in the last two decades who think everything is as it was a quarter century ago and think they're hot shit with a cherry on top just because they were there when terminals were wood paneled furniture.

@voretaq7 i cannot has teh read of your say

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid WHAP

WesleyDavid

10:31 PM

@MattBear I earned my pay today, but I don't have anyone to send the invoice to. =(

Matt Bear

lol

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Ah. Yeah, Dude's an old Windows guy that hasn't kept up with the times.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian That's the feeling I got.

Matt Bear

@Adrian we have one of those, I stuck him into managing AD users

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Oh and I'm calling PETA.

Adrian

10:33 PM

@MattBear Probably a good place for them too. I had a couple hardware techs like that was the last job. Very well-documented and circumscribed roles. They'd quickly get into trouble if given anything requires judgment calls.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian In regards to that thread, this sentence got me all cross eyed: "And even if I could be convinced that the codecs are written in JavaScript, how does jPlayer access the underlying system, say, to adjust the volume? "

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