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2:09 PM
Wow, according to the star wall, I missed some good stuff yesterday
... and none of it involved tech
 
me too
2
Q: Private Cloud: Debian and OSS vs vmware vSphere, which is best for corporate use?

D4rKr0Wi'm hoping someone can shed some light regarding the current state of virtualization on Debian. Since I like my information first-hand, i thought i'd ask here for some real-world use cases. I am currently gathering some data in order to redesign the network infrastructure of the company i work fo...

Not sure this is right for us
 
@JeffFerland A fairly well known troll came around looking for some new victims and we sent him packing. =]
 
heh
 
@ChrisS Judging from his Meta history, I think it'll take even more than the Chopper-Guns to get rid of him
 
Why do people keep trying to push virtualbox as a server platform?
 
2:15 PM
morning
 
"Private Cloud".... gah. It's a virtual infrastructure, not some nebulous marketing term.
 
It seems like it's the same as saying "I don't need VMWare ESX when all you need to do is launch a bunch of VMWare Workstations..."
 
@BartSilverstrim It's easy to get running on a workstation, so people get familiar with it, then think it's appropriate for anything because it's 'good enough' for what they do and they know of nothing else...
 
Greetings @edusysadmin!
 
I love virtualbox. On my workstation. For running one or two systems. Not for virtualizing web servers and file servers. sheesh.
 
2:19 PM
VirtualBox - fair enough for local, single workstation work. NOT as a VMWare/Hyper-V replacement.
 
@BartSilverstrim You're not pushing the envelope enough. You need to think outside the VirtualBox.
2
 
Dan
@Holocryptic I now don't know what's worse, the phrase 'cloud' or the idiot companies trying to bandwagon onto it. Christ, with the definition that it's become, we've been doing cloud computing since day one of the internet.
 
@Holocryptic punny
 
@Dan Day 0, even
 
Saying that, I do run VirtualBox on a server at home, but that's because I want a more "realistic" network than installing all the server roles on one machine.
 
2:20 PM
@JeffFerland I have them now and again
 
If the definition is "just make it go so I don't have to think about it," then yes, it's been around for non-geeks and PHB's since the invention of the IT department and the neighborhood geek who works for peeks at cleavage.
 
@ChrisS What time was this trollagedon? missed it
 
Dan
@Holocryptic I always did hate array indexing
 
@Chopper3 About 7pm, our time, I think.
 
0
Q: Running Production WAMP

hanleyhansenI am building a new Windows Server 2008 R2 install to host my Joomla! 1.6 website. What are best practices of hosting a WAMP production server? What should I do for partition? A drive for logs, a drive for the OS and a drive for data? What would be the most ideal and secure setup?

fucking people
5
 
2:21 PM
What else would you fuck?...don't answer that.
 
18 hours ago, by Evan Carroll
HALLO SERVERFAULT!
 
Morning folksies~! ^_^
 
Starts there
 
@ChrisS Timing?
 
@Ethabelle Hey hey
 
2:22 PM
@Ethabelle 'Morning
 
Chipper.
 
@JeffFerland What?
 
Mornin @Ethabelle. If you bump into ewwhite, I'll be in to the office around 9:30 your time. He was looking for me.
 
I'll just say that was a bash.org moment and leave it as is.
 
@Chopper3 That guy is a tool.
 
2:23 PM
@ethabelle I didn't know you worked for ewwhite!
 
@ChrisS brill
 
@tombull89 thanks!
 
@Chopper3 brill?
 
Brilliant?
 
brillo
 
2:26 PM
Krill?
 
Apparently that guy has some idea that high-rep people don't vote up answers because they want to stay at the top of the rep-heap instead of encouraging other users through upvotes?
 
@BartSilverstrim He was just trolling
 
@Adrian Wait, what? o_O
 
Like we get a f$@king pony or something if we reach a certain rep level.
 
@BartSilverstrim There's... no... <strike>pony</strike>pwnie?
 
2:26 PM
@BartSilverstrim Yeah. he started here a month and a half ago or something. I'm the internal Admin.
 
@BartSilverstrim He was pretending to disagree or not understand everything that was being said. He's a well known troll
 
@JeffFerland Although apparently he did something that got a personal phone call from Jeff Atwood...
 
@JeffFerland @BartSilverstrim Whaaaaat?! NO PONY?!
 
So if you are really bad, maybe SE will send you a bottle of glue.
 
My whole life is a lie....
 
2:27 PM
@Ethabelle So you're senior to him there but he outranks you?
 
@BartSilverstrim Yeah.
 
@Holocryptic Not really. The past month or two your life has been a big pain in the kidneys.
 
At what size should you consider using a separate database server for vCenter?
 
@BartSilverstrim 3 months
 
2:28 PM
I'd imagine the internal embedded DB in the vCenter appliance is more than enough for 4 hosts/ 50-60 guests?
 
Any insight from a SharePoint guru would be greatly appreciated:
0
Q: Synchronize Documents between SharePoint Farms

Bart De VosI need to synchronize certain documents between 2 Doclibs on different SharePoint Farms. This is a 'one-way-sync' meaning all changes should be replicated from A to B, not from B to A. You can identify these file because they have a field turned to $true. $listItem["SyncToExtranet"] -eq $true ...

 
@Ethabelle That must suck. How can you bitch about him here when he visits here too?
 
@BartSilverstrim Erm, I deal with all the internal IT in the company so.. him and I don't really cross paths. He just gives me lots of awesome advice.
@BartSilverstrim So I have nothing to bitch about :P !
 
So you guys aren't on the same branch of the org chart?
 
@Ethabelle What does he handle then if you're "internal IT?"
 
2:31 PM
@MDMarra We don't.. have branches o_o
@BartSilverstrim The product we sell :)
 
@Ethabelle Whoa, you have a product?
 
@BartSilverstrim He also helps me when I have questions n' stuff :3
 
...we don't have a product... :-/
@Ethabelle The tree! It does not branch!
 
Our company is just weird. It's three companies in one, makes for insanity and confusion and since I'm strictly Internal IT I fall across all three.
BLANKEEEEEEEEET
 
@bartdevos: strange that the error you cite is giving https while your script is only pulling http, isn't it?
@Ethabelle What do you sell, then?
 
2:33 PM
@BartSilverstrim A Trading API.
 
@BartSilverstrim Editted out company name, my bad, it is there ;)
 
...just an API?
 
insider trading API?
@BartSilverstrim Dude financial shit is where the $$s are at.
 
internal IT...trading...
 
I don't want to get into too many details, but our company is in the financial stuff. :P
 
2:34 PM
You could just give the website.
 
But then they might find me O_O my boss would be all 'tap in company name' and this log would display and he'd be like..
'FIRE HER!'
 
yep
 
@MDMarra You know what they say...give a man a gun, he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, he can rob the country.
 
Give a man a country, he can have a country
 
@Ethabelle I really hope you're joking.
 
2:37 PM
You realize not everyone's OK with their employees chatting all day, right? Thats why a disproportionate amount of us are in education. It's a free-for-all in edu
 
@MDMarra Yes. At the moment I'm doing two other things, though.
 
I didn't say that working and chatting were mutually exclusive
Just that a lot of places aren't OK with chatting at all
 
@MDMarra But the part I was getting at is that you'd be discouraged from giving your company website out for fear of retribution. Company logs could show that she's online already visiting "chat.stackexchange.com".
Unless this "financial organization" is associated with three-letter groups from los federales...
 
I don't think there's but one or two of us who have disclosed where we work here
I know I haven't
 
I've given enough that you could probably find me. I'm not all that hard to track down.
 
Dan
2:42 PM
<chat class="blog">Yay! The first box of bits for "Project: Get Dan's camper van back on the road" has arrived</chat>
 
@Holocryptic I haven't in chat
But it's all over my FB, Twitter, and G+
Which are all on both my blog and profile
 
It wouldn't be hard to connect the dots.
 
@MDMarra I think you have. A long time ago though. I remember talking to you about it.
 
The only thing I avoid in intention are specifics of implementation for things in the network and people I work for/with because they probably wouldn't appreciate being talked about.
 
Dan
People in the right sector could suss me out
 
2:46 PM
I haven't been on G+ in a while
 
@Holocryptic you mean it still exists?
 
That all reminds me. I wonder if anyone else is hitting the chat servers right now, but it would probably be misuse of resources for me to check that since there's not really any work reason for me to.
 
@TylerShads It's like a desert.
 
Why can't I have my cat with me at work
 
@TylerShads I suppose so
 
2:50 PM
@Holocryptic Me neither.
 
I'll just stick to Twitter for the most part (and Facebook for when I feel like cutting myself)
 
@ScottPack ? if you're in charge of the network, auditing network usage logs can be part of the job.
@Holocryptic I linked twitter to facebook...now I rarely check facebook, and then rarely post comments on it.
 
@BartSilverstrim I do the security monitoring, not the network management.
 
SOCIAL NETWORKING IS ABOUT LISTENING TO ME DAMMIT
@ScottPack Auditing the logs is part of security.
Does it really matter?
 
@ChrisS Just read all that Evan Carroll stuff - massive tool, massive - reckons he's a 'senior' programmer aged 26 - of course he is, if he works alongside a puddle of jizz
 
2:52 PM
@BartSilverstrim I can't bring myself to link the accounts
LOL
 
still worried about what the parents in FB will think?
@Chopper3 Don't mince words, 'Chop...tell us what you really think.
 
@BartSilverstrim Well, the rest of my extended family, yes. Plus it just feels icky to me.
 
His idea that we come here for our careers, HA!, imagine the extra work I could be doing instead of coming on here and talking about food etc. Talking of which it's Pork in Cider tonight :)
 
@Chopper3 Oh that sounds awesome
 
Oh and @BartSilverstrim, you know you're 'What else would you fuck?' well a very long time ago I fucked an ex's sandwich, neither a euphemism nor anything to be proud of
2
 
2:56 PM
TIL
 
Hey, @Chopper3, is there really any reason to use the vCenter appliance if the cost of a Windows Server license isn't an issue?
 
HA, DRS
 
I wish I could meet you for a long chat and a recorder for posterity, just to record all the stories.
 
oh sorry, never read the Q
 
2:57 PM
@Chopper3 I meant in place of vCenter on Windows
 
I made Gang Garee Gai last night; delicious. Forgot the leftovers in my fridge though =[
 
Dan
@MDMarra No, the Windows version has more features. Though, if I'm understanding right, it does come prepacked with the web interface wheras you have to install that yourself on Windows
 
@ChrisS thai?
 
Dan
Not VCenter features as such, I forget now. I suck :(
 
yeah, answering too quickly - the vCA is limited by hosts/guests but most people won't hit them, it doesn't do linked mode or things like SRM but for most things it's fine - my own two VC's at home are vCAs
 
2:58 PM
@Holocryptic Yep; excellent stuff and dead simple to make if you buy the curry sauce premade
 
@ChrisS Looks tasty
 
Thanks for the info
 
@Chopper3 no VUM on the appliance either, so you'll need a windows license to run that on anyways
 
I microwaved two potatoes for ~10 minutes; fried up some cubed chicken, dice the potatoes and some fresh green beans into the chicken, fry for a few minutes to get everything nice and golden brown, dump Kaeng Curry over the top and chow down.
 
true
 
Dan
3:01 PM
@pauska Ah, that was what was in the back of my mind. I need to pay more attention!
 
@ChrisS I don't know that curry sauce, what's it like?
 
@Chopper3 were you drunk when she asked for the mayo?
 
@Chopper3 It's the prototypical "Yellow Curry" that you find in most restaurants.
 
ah
@TylerShads ripped to the tits on K iirc
 
Then that solves that one
 
3:03 PM
If you go to the store and get "Yellow" you're probably getting something meant for western tastebuds. If you get the Kaeng it's going to be more authentic, though it's still pretty exclusive to western culture.
 
Dan
@ChrisS Are Indian curry's big over therE?
 
@Dan Not around Grand Rapids, we're all Thai, no Indian to be found.
 
Dan
@ChrisS Ah, you're missing out!
 
TomTom said IMHO in a comment. Someone should tell him that the H doesn't apply there.
 
Dan
@MDMarra He wouldn't get it :(
 
3:19 PM
Suspicious?
0
Q: Ubuntu Server For Mailing Setup?

BigGeniusI am setting up Ubuntu Server for Sending mail ( newsletters to be more specific). I will be using 10ips for this. Can anyone tell me "How can i proceed on this? I tried to google but didn't found anything, yet. I need to rotate ips after every 1000 mails. Also Can i use windows server for mailin...

 
@BartSilverstrim BigGenious, eh? MDMarra is right, the "Humble" doesn't apply here
 
@Adrian here...
 
Yo. Mornin'
 
I was asking about KVM. I'm disappointed by the lack of organization (except for products like Promox)
 
@Adrian 'Morning
 
3:22 PM
You mentioned that you wanted to go to VMWare... Why?
 
Why not?
 
@ewwhite Ah. We're still thinking about VMWare, but it's not in the budget just yet. I have to prove that the whole virtualization thing will work for us before we shell out that kind of cash.
 
It works in most cases... but I'm wondering what motivates the decision to use KVM versus one of the bigger established players.
 
@Adrian How many systems do you have?
 
@ewwhite For us, just cash. Basic VMWare licensing is larger than our entire IT budget across the entire agency. We're a shoestring, and a pretty short one at that.
 
3:25 PM
@Adrian ESXi.
 
I mean, you can get in the game for free with ESXi... and the Essentials pack ~$600US is good for three hosts.
and Essentials Plus gives vmotion... $4000US, maybe...
 
We have ~13 machines on one ESXi host.
 
and then the pricing explodes...
 
We have 25 servers here at the main office, but we're not happy with how difficult they are to manage. Too many services operating on a server.
 
Depending on your needs, you can get away with just a couple ESXi hosts, making copies of VM's once in awhile for between the machines...but you don't get the good stuff like vmotion.
 
3:26 PM
I rarely see environments that need more that three hosts.
 
Yeah, $5k is more than I can swing this year. They're not really happy about the fact that they have to replace servers every 5-6 years. It's just a little ridiculous.
 
Assuming modern hardware.
 
Plus you'd need good hardware for stepping it up.
Really, duct taping solutions is more of a headache down the road.
 
@BartSilverstrim Yep. Of course, they agree with that until they see a dollar figure and freak the fuck out.
 
Question: is VMWare overpriced?
 
3:28 PM
Answer: Yes
(if you're a windows shop)
no idea about you linux people though
 
@BartSilverstrim They've gotten a little too used to being able to drop a terminal on a desk for under $250 total outlay for hardware & software .
 
does redhat licensing give any benefits of using KVM over other products? If you're already using their enterprise licenses for host OS'es?
 
I don't feel like the RHEV product is there... but maybe it's because I can't get an evaluation...
 
VMware seems great for a lot of what we do...but their pricing is confusing.
 
And I hate feeling like I'm paying 75% the price to get the second-tier solution
 
3:30 PM
You almost require a salesdrone to sort things out.
 
@BartSilverstrim Whats confusing about it
 
Just the components to purchase to get XYZ functionality.
 
I just went through licensing it
 
@ewwhite Ah. We're doing this with CentOS and KVM virt-manager, so I can't even speak to RHEV.
 
Unless they've been simplifying it.
 
3:32 PM
That pretty much lays it out
 
A long-winded analogy: here in the financial trading space, there's a big thing about low-latency networking between Chicago and New York. When I started in this world, the round-trip time was ~25-28ms. A high-end 100mb or gigE connection would be 22ms.
over the years, that has dropped to 18ms
then 16ms...
then 15ms...
 
I heard of a company that moved to NYC just because of the latency.
 
and there became a tiered solution... trading firms who wanted the fastest connection bought into Spread Networks...
 
@mdmarra: what is vcenter compared to vsphere, when I use vsphere to monitor/maintain my VMs now?
 
who provided a guarantee of the lowest RTT time...
~13ms now...
but at several million $$ to buy in...
and tens of thousands $$ per month.
 
3:35 PM
@BartSilverstrim You use a vCenter server to manage things like vMotion, HA, etc. So you buy a vSphere license for each socket, and then you buy a vCenter license to manage it
You need both
There's not really any benefit to doing one without the other
 
so when the fastest time is mid 13ms... it's possible to buy the $20k/month line that's 14.3ms...
you'll always lose...
but why bother...
 
@BartSilverstrim Latency is king in trading.
 
that's how I feel in the VMWare, KVM, RHEV etc, etc..
with the exception of hyper-v
 
@mdmarra: you mean you need both if you're using multiple hosts with added features, and vsphere is just for managing individual hosts.
 
The stock market needs to move to ticks.
 
3:36 PM
for a windows shop, it does make sense
 
Execute trades every second, or five seconds
 
but why pay anything for RHEV when it's not quite the winner...
 
@BartSilverstrim There's no reason to buy any of it if you only have one host
vSphere isn't used to manage anything. It's just a per-socket license that enables features that you can manage in vCenter
 
Unwritten rule of hardware, No. 26: The bigger, more expensive, and more important bit of hardware, the bigger the pain it is when it goes wrong.
 
We're still trying to get a second host as backup and spreading the load. Not that there's much of a load.
 
3:37 PM
eh, trading is f-ed up.
I was at a firm that bought the second-fastest link from chi to NY
 
@MDMarra ...I'm running vSphere client right now...?
 
silly... we lost out to the people on the fastest link
 
@BartSilverstrim Right, but buying licenses for vSphere without vCenter doesn't do a single thing
 
But vsphere is managing the single host, isn't it? With vsphere client?
 
No
You can use the vSphere Client to connect to a single ESXi host, or to a vCenter server
 
3:40 PM
The descriptions I've read make vcenter sound like it aggregates your hosts for managing everything.
 
If you had vCenter, you'd connect directly to that and manage everything. It also enables vMotion, HA, etc.
 
So vcenter runs on it's own host.
 
yes
 
It's own server.
 
Dan
Yes, or on a physical machine
 
3:40 PM
Usually in a VM
 
best practice.
NO!
 
Dan
(Not that you would, like, but it's immaterial is what I'm saying)
 
best practice is vcenter on a physical box.
 
Where do you see that?
 
Dan
@PeterGrace Are you sure?
 
3:41 PM
Then vcenter connects to your vcenter box and that machine in turns aggregates EVERYTHING.
 
Everything I've read says it's fine on a VM
 
lordy, don't make me look it up
 
I do it as a VM.
 
Dan
@MDMarra Agreed. And if HA and vMotion etc is all working then it'll seamless migrate to another box just like everything else
 
HA still works without it.
 
3:42 PM
Okay. TIL. Vcenter isn't another software interface, it's a Borg queen for VMWare hosts.
 
@BartSilverstrim Yeah, basically
 
Dan
@MDMarra What I mean is you can happily vMotion your VCenter box just like any other guest
 
Thanks for the clarification.
 
Running VirtualCenter in a virtual machine is fully supported by VMware to the same degree as if it
were installed on a physical server. There are several reasons why deploying VirtualCenter in a
virtual machine would be advantageous:
SCREW ALL OF YOU
4
I'm taking my toys and going home
 
@Dan Yeah, agreed
 
3:43 PM
every time I've run virtualcenter in a vm it's been slow as balls.
 
I was just saying that as long as HA works if it goes down unexpectedly, it doesn't really matter
Since another host will pop it back up
 
It could just be that they've been inherited environments
 
Dan
@MDMarra Yep, that too
@PeterGrace Can't say I've noticed any issue with it
 
there's something weird about managing a system from inside the system itself.
 
Yeah, it does feel weird
 
Dan
@PeterGrace It's essentially self aware
 
for those curious, that above pdf is the vmware official line on vcenter in a vm
 
I, for one, would like to welcome our new VMCeption overlords
 
Dan
@tombull89 He's happy. Why don't you like him being happy? You're so mean.
 
3:47 PM
Smiley was unexpected at this time. Of course, "firmware upgrade" is my last-ditch attempt to get this printer to work.
 
Dan
I kind of want to save this one, but check the edit history to seehis "Clarifications"
0
Q: Per client profiles in Citrix

deamonI want to associate each Citrix client machine with a certain application specific profile (no windows profile or something similar). I have the following ideas to do this, but maybe there is a better way I am not aware of. a) The client reads the environment variable "ClientName" and asks the s...

 
-3
Q: Ubuntu Server For Mailing Setup?

BigGeniusI am setting up Ubuntu Server for Sending mail ( newsletters to be more specific). I will be using 10ips for this. Can anyone tell me "How can i proceed on this? I tried to google but didn't found anything, yet. I need to rotate ips after every 1000 mails. Also Can i use windows server for mailin...

nut-job spammer
 
You should have a special diamond. An honorary spam-hunting medal. I know that you don't want to be a mod, but you should still be able to ban accounts, if nothing else.
 
Dan
" Is the name of God nothing to you" WTF?
 
@Chopper3 his website is not very confidence-filling.
takes ages to load...
 
3:55 PM
@Chopper3 The arguing sealed my vote...but the "name of god mean nothing to you" sounds very much like a line from so many Nigerian scams.
 
Once he brought out the "god" line I was going to drop in a line I read from a book - but that would be a bit too much even for SF.
 
Dan
He's from India by the looks of it
 
ah, so we don't even know which god he meant, the elephant one maybe, the one with the hands, the one that says 'They'rrrre Greaaat!' etc.
2
 
I don't know where God came into running an email server... he wasn't talking about Sendmail.
 
3:59 PM
are there any open source projects named after Lovecraftian creatures?
 

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