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12:01 AM
Looks like nginx got SPNEGO stuff when I wasn't looking. That could be handy.
 
erf
I miss the local computer book store. They went online only
 
@84104 Sure 'nuf. SSL for authentication and ESP for tunnel security.
 
woo, strunk & white
why does strunk & white give you civic duty progress meter?
 
@Aaron ?
 
If you click on 'review' after getting the strunk & white badge, it has the progress meter towards copy editor, but it also has a progress meter towards civic duty
 
12:12 AM
@Aaron Because you're cleaning trash off the streets? I don't pay much attention to badges.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:50 AM
Seems odd that aside from the post by Community and the fact that the election started, there's not a peep from anyone at SE on any of the election discussion. Didn't it say to ask questions with the tag?
 
@ShaneMadden Honestly it doesn't surprise me at all really...
 
@MarkHenderson That's .. a little depressing.
 
You uhh, get used to it :p
 
Sure.. I can understand that we're totally forgotten and need to email team@stackoverflow.com to get any attention during normal times.. but turning on an election, asking for questions, then not paying attention to the questions seems.. worse.
 
Out of curiosity, what issues are afoot?
 
2:01 AM
Every week/month or so they run a moderator-only chat, which if of course never when I'm awake, but anyway, during these chats you find out that they've released dozens of new moderator-only features, but they're never announced anywhere and there aren't even any obvious links to them
So the official communication really needs to be worked on
 
Ah. So just likely every other large organization I've ever seen, eh? =)
 
@MarkHenderson Continuous deployment! They're too busy adding and deploying new features to document them.
 
@ShaneMadden I can relate to that, but even a once-a-week mailout to mods informing them of new functionality would be nice
And it's one of the most oft-requested features over on mso, and to be fair, they did eventaully cave and give the job of maintaining it to someone
 
@MarkHenderson Yeah.. seems like unless you're watching m.SO like a hawk, a lot of changes are just, "surprise!"
 
@ShaneMadden True. And some f them are only announced in the specific moderator chat room as well, so unless you're in there all day every day or you go in there and review the star wall before they fall off the bottom of the list...
(which I don't)
 
2:17 AM
@MarkHenderson Clearly you need to get your priorities straight ;)
 
2:38 AM
@MarkHenderson Word, brother.
 
Hey @sysadmin1138
 
They need to do more non-US hour chat-casts. I actually made the UTC 0200 one for a change, it was a very different crowd than the ones at 1800.
 
@sysadmin1138 I made that one too
Which is where I learned that i can view peoples voting patterns
And that the sites now collect anonymous feedback from google visitors!
I had no idea that anonymous people got "was this helpful" flags
 
Heh, because we never see those flags unless we hit the site in an unlogged-in browser.
I swear, I need a sock-puppet just so I can keep up on what the low-rep experience is like.
 
Exactly. It's been almost 3 years since I joined and about 2.9 years since I hit 1k rep, which is where things (used to) start getting good
 
2:43 AM
And I keep getting tripped up on the varying abilities of the really low rep users (1-10).
 
Anyway Im gunna head off
Ah fuck more flags
Maybe not :p
 
Starfish has been really active lately.
 
Yeah he has
With hundreds and hundreds of trivial edits
Must have decided answering questions was too hard to make rep from
I'm rejecting a lot of them. If all it is is a single irrelevant spelling mistake, or ONLY salutations, to the reject bin it goes
Anyway queue is clear
Cya
 
Tah tah.
 
FUCKING SELINUX t(>_<t)
5
 
2:58 AM
@WesleyDavid Curse about SELINUX, get a star.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's genius, just very well hidden and in need of in-depth understanding.
Until then, I'll curse at it like I know what I'm talking about.
 
ServerFault chat is rated PG-13 for language and suggestions of violence.
Except when someone mentions SELinux. Then it's NC17 for rabid profanity and *ACTUAL* violence.
@WesleyDavid SELinux is shit. Wrapped in crap. Covered in poo.
 
@voretaq7 What about the manure and guano?
 
Mandatory access controls are like that. Very black and white that way. Don't know how to ask the question in the right way? Denied!
 
It's a fantastic idea, but the implementation is busted - "Disable SELinux" is item #2 on the checklist for every admin I've ever met.
(Item #1 is "Install Operating System")
@sysadmin1138 yes, but the BSD MAC framework is less painful to set up
 
3:01 AM
@voretaq7 What's the best implementation of the idea that you're aware of?
 
(not much less, but I can have a running system faster)
 
@WesleyDavid AppArmor's been a nice balance between "complete" and "easy" whenever I've put it in.
 
@WesleyDavid they're all pretty shit honestly. I'll admit to being biased but I like the FreeBSD implementation.
AppArmor is pretty good too - I let that live on most systems.
 
I have scant experience with AppArmor from a web administration perspective.
 
AppArmor I think is easier to set up initially than the FreeBSD MAC framework, not sure how it sits in terms of maintaining it though
I've only got AppArmor experience on our field units, which are effectively (micro)managed desktops.
 
3:04 AM
Usually dealing with PHP apps that are breaking because of it.
Or rather, breaking because they were coded in the form of spasmodic gerbils having seizures on the keyboard - and then AppArmor demands that they conform to at least a *loose* interpolation of secure.
 
@WesleyDavid My favorite is AppArmor. Even ubuntu uses it now.
 
@WesleyDavid PHP? Secure? You jest.
 
@sysadmin1138 Is that an endorsement or an insult? =P
 
@sysadmin1138 I try not to hold that against it.
I also try not to hold its lineage against it (Novell owned it for a time)
 
Actually, from my experiences with Ubuntu Server in a minimal state, I can't find issues with it other than being Debian based.
 
3:06 AM
@WesleyDavid I've done some with it. It takes intelligence to set up, but it actually does what it says on the tin and I didn't risk SAN loss. Won't stop SQL-injection, but will stop code-drops on bad parts of the filesystem.
 
Despite hanging out with a bad crowd it's really very nice and respectable LOL
 
Actually, Womble turned me on my ear over CentOS vs Ubuntu Server
 
What's Womble's take on that?
 
@sysadmin1138 do any of the MAC frameworks stop SQL injection?
 
@sysadmin1138 Womble's take on Ubuntu Server is: "IT FUCKING WORKS YOU FUCKING FUCK SO FUCK OFF AND FUCKING GET A FUCKING BRAIN YOU FUCK!!"
 
3:07 AM
@voretaq7 Not that I've found :} But that's what defense in depth is all about.
 
I say that with true affection for his Wombliness.
I miss him around here. =|
 
@WesleyDavid Which, Ubuntu or CentOS?
 
Clarified above
 
Ahah, good.
 
Received SPAM:
From: SOC@us-cert.gov
Subject: Phishing incident report call number: PH0000000514312
 
3:09 AM
102
A: CentOS vs. Ubuntu

wombleThere are no benefits that I can discern for using CentOS (or RHEL) over Ubuntu if you are equally familiar with using both OSes. We use RHEL and CentOS heavily at work, and it's just painful -- we're building custom packages left and right because the OS doesn't come with them, and paid RedHat ...

 
first thought: "That's not what a CERT incident number looks like..."
Second thought: "Am I a sad, pathetic individual for knowing what a CERT incident number looks like?"
 
@voretaq7 Shall I answer that or are you sufficiently abashed?
<-- (knows what a Microsoft Security Bulletin number looks like) weeps
 
@WesleyDavid Do I have to ground you from wet food again?
 
>^-^<
 
Oh EVERYBODY knows what an MS Security Bulletin number looks like! It's the only 512-bit identifier in the industry! :P
 
3:12 AM
@voretaq7 looked at it for a second Err--- hah?
lightbulb OH!! HAHAHA!
HA haha ha. weeps profusely
rage kicks Vista box under desk
 
Proverb: "If you don't laugh you'll cry."
Windows admin: "If I can stop patching long enough to laugh I might stop crying!"
 
@voretaq7 Patching isn't so bad if you have SCCM. And a homogeneous environment. And drugs.
 
Me: "I'm afraid to patch. Every time I do I get emails from security-officer@freebsd.org"
seriously - EVERY TIME.
twitch
 
I'm gunning for a Sr Windows admin position at a hosted service provider in the area - the thought of being responsible for patching hundreds of Windows servers without disrutpion to customers makes me feel like what Evel Knievel must have felt like when standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon with a rocket strapped to his back.
 
@WesleyDavid NONONONONONONONONONONO!
NO! BAD! uses water bottle
 
3:15 AM
You know you're going to die painfully, but at least you'll leave decent money behind for your family.
 
God I hated patching when I worked at the ISP.
 
@voretaq7 What hurts your soul more? The Windows part or the hosted services part? =)
Hosted services has been a fascination of mine for a long time, in fact the name of my current business reflects that. I had hoped to get into that via bootstrapping, but a few bad contracts kinda sidelined me. Now considering working for someone else for the next few years.
 
for our machines / shared hosting environment I managed to win the CTO over to my side and basically told customers "This is the patch schedule. Don't like it? Buy a dedicated box you cheap bastards."
For the "fully managed" machines though, getting outage windows was insane
 
@voretaq7 Good job. I like that - I'd love if most hosts had a nice upfront patching window.
 
it was literally a full-time job just scheduling them.
 
3:17 AM
So your ISP also did hosting of various kinds?
 
I read the security bulletins for stuff that affects our servers. Once one drops that impacts them, I start knocking on doors hat in hand looking for maintenance windows :P
 
@WesleyDavid My current company has quarterly windows - 1800 Eastern Friday until 0800 Eastern on Monday, the first Friday following the 15th of the mid-quarter months (Feb, May, Jul, Nov)
@WesleyDavid yup
 
@sysadmin1138 Yeah, a large part of the time I bill for in managed services is sitting and reading the patches that affect what runs. I'm still waiting on the WSS 3.0 SP3 patch because it scares me spitless.
 
@sysadmin1138 I've got redundancy so I CAN do emergency patches without (noticeable) outages
but I prefer not to
@WesleyDavid service packs aren't patches - they're breakage in a box.
Especially if you run exchange or SQL server
 
My curiosity has been how to clone live production systems and then test patches on them. I think the entire floor needs to be virtualized so you can snapshot the machines in question.
@voretaq7 raises hand
 
3:21 AM
@voretaq7 I'm still building out my redundancies in that department. I have some, but not all.
 
@WesleyDavid in my case I have a shadow VMWare environment that is nearly identical to production (some hardware drivers differ)
 
If you start your day by reading up on how to use stsadmin you know you're going to lose the will to live shortly.
 
my LDAP server is non-redundant
But if it breaks the clients won't know.
 
@voretaq7 But how do you keep the differences between production and testing to a minimum so the results of testing patches are trustworthy?
 
@WesleyDavid they use the same deployment images so the only difference is the IP addresses
 
3:23 AM
Workflow testing is the hardest part of patch-testing.
 
Duplicated right down to the firewalls and vLANs
 
Installing update 21 of 77......
 
@voretaq7 So you patch and deploy in tandem? Meaning, it's not like you build up and destroy the test environment much then? Sounds to me like you built it, then it keeps rolling along just like the live side of things?
 
@WesleyDavid yup
there's a separate virtual QA environment that gets knocked down and rebuilt, but it's built from the images in dev
when they pass QA we push them to production
it's really a very proper build-test-deploy system. And I demand that the process be followed :)
 
@voretaq7 Ohh... see, I think I'm too pedantic. I like to use systems that were freshly cloned from the prod environment if at all possible. So for firewalls, I'd make a script that is constantly dumping the config of live and applying it to test firewall. Same with switches. As for servers, I'd snapshot if possible.
Databases are the same. Make a snapshot in SQL Server or dump the whole thing to a new server just moments before needing it for test.
 
3:28 AM
@WesleyDavid well in order for a change to get into production it has to be made in dev and put into a template
otherwise the next time deployment runs the change will be removed
 
@voretaq7 Ah, I see. Different workflow than what I deal with.
 
we had the "what if an unauthorized/untracked change is made to production?" problem before and it was a mess, so this policy was born.
 
@voretaq7 Ahh, the old "I thought it would be cool to put the Half Life server in the dev lab" scenario.
Or Unreal Tournament, as the case may be.
Or Team Fortress 2.
 
and sometimes changes do sneak into production, but you discover them in a hurry when the preflight script says "Oh yeah, I'm going to step on your firewall configuration. You might want to look to that."
 
Not that I've done that or anything.
 
3:32 AM
@voretaq7 I would commit UNSPEAKABLE acts to have maintenance windows like that. I could get SO much stuff done.
 
@AdrianK I insisted.
exactly because I can get so much stuff done. And because it means if something goes wrong I have time to fix it.
 
Nothing redundant around here and we have an expectation of 99.5%
Update 44 of 77.....
 
The compromise is the windows are only quarterly
 
@voretaq7 I've had exactly 2 4-hour windows in the past 12 years. One was because they were demolishing our offices and management was the one pushing us to do it now now now.
 
@AdrianK What kind of box is that that's being updated?
 
3:36 AM
@WesleyDavid old 2k3 box. probably hasn't been updated since october 2010.
I need to get my scripting skills up to speed so I can move out of here in a year or so.
 
We target 99.9% availability, excluding maintenance windows
informally we target 99.0% including them (and we were at 99.8something last year)
 
G'night.
 
@AdrianK DO you think that's what's keeping you from being candidate for better jobs elsewhere?
@sysadmin1138 To sleep, perchance to dream...
 
@sysadmin1138 run awayyyyyyyyyyy
 
flees
 
3:39 AM
That's one of the items. The soft skills have gotten a lot better. I also need to get more familiarity with Windows, which I lack after 12 solid years of Solaris and Linux support and low-end administration.
 
@AdrianK Are you certed up? Helps in resume scanning when recruiters and hiring managers snarf up your paperwork with OCR tools.
My MCSE/MCITP combo gets eyeballs on my paper
 
Nah. No certs here and haven't had time to pursue them. I'm starting to think that the job needs to get shoved back down to its regular 8 hours regardless of mgmt expectations and hit the books more.
 
@AdrianK Yeah buddy. Do that.
You could probably eat up LPIC and RH certs.
RH is hot in the eyes of those who search for people to hire.
Also, if you do network stuff with Cisco kit, CCNA.
 
@WesleyDavid True. And I need to study Cisco anyway for those new Cisco switches I got in. Just about to pull the trigger on some basic Cisco books once my paycheck clears.
@voretaq7 Saw this in my RSS feed today. The SELinux rant earlier reminded me of it. sheltren.com/stop-disabling-selinux
 
:P
 
3:46 AM
SELinux isn't broken. It just doesn't work.
@voretaq7 HOWMIDOIN'?!
 
@WesleyDavid earn yo' catnip
 
finally. damn updates finished.
 
@AdrianK reboots - blue screen - Windows is finally secure!!
Just try and hack it.
 
@WesleyDavid I don't want to know what unspeakable things might live on that old 2k3 server. All it's done for almost 6 years now is route traffic off a 20-unit public computer lab in our employment-services unit.
It's completely physically segregated on its own network, thankfully.
 
Two words: Amputee. Midgets.
I avoided adding a third, fourth and fifth.
 
3:50 AM
Considering I used to do end-user support for POS terminals on SCO Unix for an adult toy shop, that provides some pretty strange visuals.
 
Yeah, I've done my share of gateway administration. hundred yard stare
@AdrianK Do you use RedHat / CentOS / RPM-based distros much?
 
@WesleyDavid Our non-database infrastructure is CentOS 5 & 6. It just runs though. I spend most of my quality time un-fucking Ubuntu.
 
@AdrianK Okay, still thought, it's not a quantum leap by any stretch. I was just thinking, if you got RHCE (you've got teh bwainz already) then you could command a nice price and get some nice interviews.
Make 2012 the year of AndrianK. Get yourself primped and preened.
 
@WesleyDavid Oh yeah. It's more than time for that. Probably gotta beef up the Windows side a little though considering I'm in Redmond's backyard and all. Most of the full-on Unix people I know around here are jealous that Windows is only 1% of my job.
 
@AdrianK Yeah. Now, do you say that because you see a lot of jobs that you want, but might not get because of lack of Windows? I mean, from my perspective in the SW, a Linux/UNIX-only guy could make a freaking mint and get his choice of work any day of teh week.
SW = SouthWest
 
3:58 AM
@WesleyDavid Yeah. Every ad I see around here is primarily Windows with Linux/Unix as a nice-to-have. The only straight-up *nix ones are for Sage4 Seniors or niche specialists.
But you're right on the Cisco stuff. The really good ones have either RH or Cisco experience as a requirement.
 
@AdrianK Hrm... so are you not keen on the idea of working in the web world? Like a hosting provider?
 
Fuck you @WesleyDavid
 
@MarkHenderson :-*
 
I swear to god, if you don't get a mod position I'm going to kidnap someones child until they open up a spot for you
 
@MarkHenderson I found a new keyword. cackles
 
4:00 AM
Kitty make a flag-pile or what?
 
@WesleyDavid I'd do that. The kids and girlfriend are local though, so moving would be a heck of a big jump for me.
 
@MarkHenderson Okay, want to know something scary? I have a folder full of bookmarks of keywords and phrases that I've found that are full of crappy questions. I've got thousands of posts I can flag. >:-D
 
.... GREAT
Do you need some more flag weight? :p
I can reject a few of yours so ytou can try and re-claim it
 
@MarkHenderson ಠ_ಠ
30 more flags to go for the night...
cackles again
Actually, no, it's 9AM and I need to get some things done.
So no more flags.
 
I've got 49 flags if you need some help harassing Mark.
 
4:05 AM
@ShaneMadden -)_-) Not sure if trolling or serious
 
@WesleyDavid AM? Are you in eastern Europe?
 
@ShaneMadden PM, Aridzona
 
@WesleyDavid He's a cat. They're nocturnal.
 
I made a boo boo.
 
We'll just go with the nocturnal thing.
 
4:09 AM
Great. SeaGate bought Samsung's Hard Drive division. There goes high quality, low-cost consumer drives. Fare thee well, SpinPoints. Alas, I hardly ye.
 
I wish they'd never made flag weight public
 
@WesleyDavid Who was it that had bought IBM's hard drive division some years back? I was thinking it was Samsung.
 
The whole "OMG, I did it in "good faith" and shit it got declined and OH NOES I lost 10 flag weight" is annoying
 
Doh. That was Hitachi.
 
Ugh. Never liked seagate's drives. They suck at altitude.
 
4:11 AM
@ShaneMadden Pressure-related failures or something?
 
@Holocryptic Never seen anyone whine about it like that. Where was that? Meta?
 
@WesleyDavid EVERYONE who's trying to get that flag weight badge complains like that
And yes, there's currently a meta post on it
 
@Holocryptic Toolbags.
 
/shrug
 
@AdrianK Hard to tell, but I'd guess so. In my support grunt days we definitely saw disproportionate fail rates on their gear at altitude.
Anecdotal, but enough that I don't trust their parts.
 
4:15 AM
@ShaneMadden Very strange. Kind of glad we're at 34 feet ASL here. Tsunamis are more of a concern here though.
 
@AdrianK I remember driving through coastal towns growing up and we always knew to look for the tsunami evacuation signs just in case.
 
I hope the drive makers have learned of the hazards of water. And of building every drive factory in the world in the same damn place.
 
Oh the memories that this sign brings back:
 
@ShaneMadden NO kidding, eh?
 
Oh, sweet. Newest version of splunk ditches flash.
 
That's atrocious.
 
Foxconn, again??
A spate of employee suicides back in 2010 led to management installing nets on the sides of its buildings to stop staff jumping. - how is that a solution???
 
@ShaneMadden Cuz it's China. And in such regimes you don't even have a pretense of owning your own body, no?
 
4:38 AM
gnite gents. Time to drag my sorry carcass home.
 
@AdrianK Laters
 
4:56 AM
 
5:13 AM
Just popping in to say @ShaneMadden is The Man for that RAID5 answer. Bravo!
 
@AdrianK Haha, thanks :)
 
5:29 AM
I might need some editorial help. I'm writing a blog post about content filtering and IT's role in policing it, and I think I'm getting way out of hand with the use of obscure words, alliteration, figures of speech and perhaps allusions. I need an objective pair of eyeballs. =)
laters
 
@WesleyDavid You can email me the draft and I'll take a look at it tomorrow if you want
 
 
1 hour later…
6:49 AM
@ShaneMadden: so they can fire the suicidees rather than compensating the family
 
7:38 AM
Morning all
 
8:14 AM
G'day
 
@WesleyDavid - the duck is in his new home. I'll post pics later
morning all y'all
 
how goes ?
 
not bad, and you?
currently trialling new web blocking/monitoring software
 
More auditing work for me today. Powershelling along :)
 
8:21 AM
what fun
and backups have failed. That will please my colleague who looks after them
 
@RobMoir feeling a bit think this morning but I'm good - more coffee required I think
 
just got my one. I like to start Wednesdays with a cappuccino instead of my normal cuppa tea, its like a booster shot for the week
 
I couldn't start my day with just tea - there just isn't sufficient oomph in it
 
heh... my usual morning tea is decaf too... though this cappuccino sure isn't
 
I generally need a morning kick start - once I'm rolling I'm ok with tea oe even tonic water
 
Dan
8:29 AM
Morning all
 
Dan
Having the worst morning
My shower broke, I've hurt my neck in the night and I spilt tea on my trousers so had to iron another pair!
 
sounds like a bit of a disaster Dan but things can only get better from there!
 
Dan
Well, in a bizarre twist of events I'm actually covering for one of our customers (A network manager) today. So, it's a bit like stepping back in time but the school only has 500 kids!
 
not sure if thats good or bad?
 
Dan
8:35 AM
I'm easy - they're a good customer, and we needed to steal him for some PR
 
Dan
And cos I'm on site, I get expenses and travel
 
sounds good to me
 
Dan
So....are all shower hose fittings the same?
 
don't ask me. I'm not a practical man at that kinda thing. I think so but I wouldn't put much belief in what I say
 
Dan
8:40 AM
Ah well, trip to B&Q later
 
I understand where this guy is coming from but is this (in it's current format) NC meta.serverfault.com/questions/2576/… ?
 
I agree Iain - starting dance of the 5 close votes
 
3 hours and still going:
-1
A: How to set up spf records to send mail from google hosted apps to gmail addresses

Uwadiale GeorgeI am Mr Uwadiale George a Legitimate And a Reputable money Lender. We are dynamic company with financial assistance.We loan funds out to individuals in need of financial assistance, that have a bad credit or in need of money to pay bills,to invest on business.Contact us via E-mail address : uwad...

Must be a SF record :)
 
or rather :(
 
Dan
Nice
 
8:46 AM
@Iain Well, they did it last year, looks like it worked: meta.serverfault.com/questions/1108/…
 
@BartDeVos yes I saw that and it took quite a bit of effort to do it. Why not just use the tools available in the way they are intended ?
 
I thought it was a PITA to do for little gain when I stood for election last year
I mean to say, I know it was done with the best of intentions. Just not so sure it delievered and is an exercise worth repeating.
 
@Iain True :) Also voted NC :)
 
 
1 hour later…
10:09 AM
Morning cock-knockers
 
Dan
Morning
 
hey chopper
 
Dan
10:41 AM
Here's a long shot - has anyone here ever found some nice circuit design / simulation software
I need to design a new wiring harness for my van, and Visio isnt' really cutting it and I could do with simulation
 
pspice
 
circuit wizard, we think
we think thats what the electronics dept. use here, I mean to say
 
Dan
ooh, pspice looks alright. I'll take a look at Circuit Wizard
They're both very PCB orientated, but I'll take alook and hopefully they'll do the trick
Didn't quite realise what I was getting myself into when I started this little project
 
The thing is that most electronics design is CHIP/PCB orientated. Wiring harnesses are fairly straight forward by comparison
 
Dan
11:08 AM
I know
I'm quite happy with the theory, but there's so many components and I want to avoid issues with backfeeds and the likes
And because I'm going from scratch the original wiring diagram is really no help at all
It's such a pig of a job to physically install, too, that I'll be all kinds of upset if I end up ripping parts out :D
 
@Dan I use Labtec Isis and Ares.
er. Labcenter
 
Dan
Thanks Tom
 
Ok. Is anyone looking for a really junior engineer? The guy who posted serverfault.com/questions/293217/… got kicked out by his mum (she's weird) and is now homeless and jobless.
 
Dan
No way
How junior can he be, he's got 5k rep
Ooh, that 990 upvotes may help.
(Thought it was Community by now!)
 
@Dan that question alone has 990 upvotes >3k of his rep comes from that
 
Dan
11:18 AM
Yeah, that makes sense
 
@Dan no formal qualifications, type junior.
 
Dan
I have no formal qualifications :(
But yeah, didn't realise he was only 19. Feel bad for the guy, I must admit
 
@Dan Neither do I, technically. I never actually took the CCNA exam.
 
Dan
I study for things then struggle to be arsed with the exam. Problem is, I've always got away with it and nobody seems to care so there's no real pressure to actually bother
I've gone through the whole CCNA series along with the security, voip and wi-fi and then some into the CCNP.

And now I barely touch networks :D
 
@Dan Having the clue is more important than the certificate.
 
Dan
11:23 AM
@TomOConnor Indeed, my current boss thought so!
 
we might have a job vacancy next month. No info on pay or whatever yet
it'll be junior helpdesk technician and a little bit of database/dev type work
 
I don't have any formal stuff either. I am Solaris SA/NA certified but that's old. I'm going to have a go at RHSA/CE this year
 
yeah none of my certs are really current. I'm assuming we're not counting ITIL. I'm a BCS member too fwiw.
 
Dan
Haha, me too, Rob - I'd forgot about that. ECDL Advanced FTW!
 
?
 
Dan
11:28 AM
I'm also....what am I....uh....Something Something in Systems Support
 
I've been BCS for a few years and I got the ECDL basic cert
 
Dan
@RobMoir Oh, it's a horrendous little exam that made me do at college.
I'm not even going to type what the acronym means on here
 
I've got the ECDL certs, first person to get it at my college, as I tested our exam centre before we opened it to outsiders. I got a remark back from the marker that the question on viruses wasn't actually asking for sample code
 
Dan
Ah, I have a "Level 3 Advanced Diploma in Systems Support"
@RobMoir Haha, class. I did mine while drunk
I passed my CV over to a uni friend of mine for proof reading. She was shocked that I'd put my qualifications and education as a small paragraphe at the end with barely any information.

She wouldn't have it that potential employers care more about what I've been doing in IT for the last 7 years than what I did at school
 
pfo
@Dan eagle as a CAD tool for schematic and PCB design is free software
@Dan it sucks when compared to things like OrCAD or the Mentor stuff.
 
11:36 AM
Does she work in a uni or is she a student? Either way, she'll find out when she gets into the real world. No one cares much about exams you did x years ago, they want to know what you've done lately
 
Dan
@RobMoir She was a student ;)
 
she will learn
 
Dan
Indeed!
We had to agree to disagree on that point
 
fair enough
The only places I've interviewed at that have cared about my O & A level results are educational establishments
 
Dan
I guess that makes sense in a way
 
11:41 AM
a few more places have asked what you've done since then but even then they want to tick a box to say you've got "a degree or equivilent" and don't actually want to hear all about the details of a 2:1 in liberal studies 20 years ago.
 
Dan
@pfo Thanks dude, will take a look at this too
 
Other than my very first job nobody has ever asked me about my qualifications
 
pfo
@Chopper3 same here
 
Dan
@Chopper3 Proofs in the pudding, eh?
Rather looking forward to the Raspberry Pi
 
To be honest most people I know get jobs directly because of work they've done and contacts they've made - quallies are very important in your early-20's though
thinking of getting one too
not sure what I'll do with it though
 
11:55 AM
I (22) was able to start where I work now because of what I did with computers in my spare time, rather than what I studied.
They want us to get as much certificates as possible now
But that's probably because they can sell us for more money at the end of the ride :)
 

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