The Hangar

Lnafziger

2:17 AM

@SteveV. Excellent answer, but you forgot the last part of the question! :-)

Steve V.

hurm?

8,000 pages worth of guidance and policy

Were you looking for something more?

Lnafziger

Well, yes. :-)

By "is it regulatory" I was asking if it legally enforceable guidance or not. :-)

@SteveV. I already upvoted it, but it's a question that I hear a lot so I figured it would be good to be specific about that portion. :)

Steve V.

I think I'm still confused. When you say legally enforceable, do you mean like "You did my ramp check improperly, come back and get it right this time?"

Who's enforcing on who?

Lnafziger

2:33 AM

Well, sometimes it includes things that they "guide" the inspector to look for even when there is no legal basis requiring it.

Too bad I can't think of any examples right now, lol.

Or put another way, what's the difference between writing another regulation and putting it in the 8900 if both do the same thing?

Steve V.

mmm...okay i getcha now. You had to say it the second time for me to get it.

casey

hint: 14 CFR overrules it, it isnt regulatory

Lnafziger

@casey That's what I'm looking for. :)

It's kind of the same (regulatory-wise) as an Advisory Circular.

voretaq7

3:02 AM

@Lnafziger "interpretation" as opposed to "regulation" (i.e. "If you go against it you damn well better be able to cite chapter and verse from 14CFR to justify what you're doing"). The FAA loves interpreting because there's way less red tape for them :)

Lnafziger

@voretaq7 Perfect. :)

voretaq7

though personally I think the 8900 series stuff is about as "regulatory" as it gets - it's basically the law on the ground

Lnafziger

3:16 AM

@voretaq7 Yeah well, if you go against it you will have a fight, that's for sure.

@voretaq7 And since it is the guidance that tells the inspectors how to do their job, they are going to use it to beat you over the head, lol.

voretaq7

yup

conversely we can use it to beat them back too ;)

Steve V.

3:31 AM

@Lnafziger - For a minute after I read your latest masterpiece of a question I thought you were talking about instrument currency. The wording of "within the six calendar months before the month in which the flight takes place" catches my students all the time.

Lnafziger

@voretaq7 Yeah, that would make a good question too.

I was planning on asking a similar one about medicals at some point.

@SteveV. For the record, I think that your answer is correct. :-)

@SteveV. But this is what I see, lol.

Steve V.

3:46 AM

I do too, but I've got no 135 experience, so I can't respond to the new addition to the question.

Lnafziger

I wonder if it is written the same way for 121.

I actually had an FAA inspector tell me that "technically" that is the way that the regulations are written, but that nobody enforces it.

(feel free to add that to your answer if you like)

voretaq7

@Lnafziger "We can't figure it out either" - just what you want to hear from an inspector :)

Lnafziger

yeah right?

@SteveV. +1 to your vector answer.

(how many times do I have to do that to get the badge? What is it, the sportsmanship badge or something??)

;-)

voretaq7

@Lnafziger it's sportsmanship and it's really easy to get :)

Steve V.

@Lnafziger I will if the question doesn't gather any other good answers for a while.

Lnafziger

3:51 AM

@voretaq7 Haha, I know. It doesn't really influence my voting though. :)

@voretaq7 By "masterpiece of a question" are you insinuating that I should ask easier questions? ;-)

Steve V.

Also, gotta say there's something weird about having the person who asked the question tell me how to fix my answer. I hesitate to use the term 'rep circlejerk' but that's about the only way I can describe it. :]

voretaq7

I weren't insinuatin' nothin' - but hard questions are good :)

Steve V.

(also i feel sad that you keep tagging vortaq7 when you respond to my statements)

Although we are two pretty good looking fellers.

voretaq7

reply love. YOU NO CAN HAS.

Steve V.

:(

Speaking of circlejerks (and i can honestly say I did not expect to be saying that when I got up this morning), I am starting to get worried about whether this site will make it out of beta.

voretaq7

4:00 AM

@SteveV. our stats are relatively good. Visits/Day is a little low, but not very low

Steve V.

Yeah, and I admit this is the first beta i've been active in.

So i don't know how long it takes to start the snowball going on new content.

Right now it seems like the twenty or so people at the top of the rep list are generating most or all of the content.

voretaq7

mainly it's getting the site out in front of people. I'm going to link drop in the piper forum next week and see if that generates much interest

we're sllllloooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy starting to show up on search engines

Steve V.

Our answer ratio went up to 2.0, that's kind of nice.

Oh well. Time to go. G'night @voretaq7 and @Lnafziger!

voretaq7

that'll naturally go up as traffic goes up

Lnafziger

@SteveV. Well, I was responding directly to something that @voretaq7 said

voretaq7

4:11 AM

@Lnafziger no that was @SteveV. :)

Lnafziger

@SteveV. And I'm asking questions that I think are good for the site, not necessarily because I don't know the answer (and in this particular case I don't, but I just felt that you didn't address the last part of my question. :))

@SteveV. Have a good night!

Alright, I'm off to bed too. Have a good night!

roe

6:58 AM

@voretaq7 I noticed that as well, I was looking for some more info on one of my questions, and there it was, like 4th or 5th on google.

Stack Exchange

10:04 AM

This Day in Aviation: 7 February 1920

posted on February 07, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

7 February 1920: Joseph Sadi-Lacointe was the first pilot to set a new Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) World Speed Record after the end of World War I. At Villacoublay, Sadi-Lecointe flew a Nieuport-Delage 29V over a 1 kilometer (0.621 miles) course at an average speed of 275.86 kilometers per hour (171.412 miles per hour). Joseph Sadi-Lecointe […] The post 7 February 1920 ap…

Stack Exchange

2:25 PM

This Day in Aviation: 7 February 1964

posted on February 07, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

7 February 1964: At 1:20 p.m. EST, The Beatles, John Lennon, Paul McArtney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr, arrived in America at John F. Kennedy International Airport from London aboard Pan American World Airways’ Flight 101, a Boeing 707-331, N704PA, Jet Clipper Defiance. They were welcomed by an estimated 4,000 fans and 200 journalists. This was the […] The post 7 February 1964 …

DeltaLima

3:10 PM

!!metar ehrd

Otto the Autopilot

EHRD 071455Z AUTO 25015KT 9999 -UP SCT015 OVC018 07/05 Q0994 REDZUP BECMG 9999 SCT011

Lnafziger

Hey DL

DeltaLima

Hey Lnafziger, how are you?

!!metar EGPH

Lnafziger

Good, you?

Otto the Autopilot

EGPH 071450Z 23013KT 9999 FEW024 07/02 Q0986

Lnafziger

3:12 PM

!!weather EHRD

Otto the Autopilot

RTM/EHRD: Rotterdam Airport • Observed: 17 mins ago • Wind: 250°/WSW @ 15kts • Visibility: 6.21mi/9.99km • Clouds: Scattered @ 1,500ft; Overcast @ 1,800ft • Temperature: 7.0°C/45°F • Dewpoint: 5.0°C/41°F • Pressure: 29.35" Hg/994mb • Conditions: MVFR

Lnafziger

what does -UP mean?

DeltaLima

I've got no idea

The pressure altitude transmitted by the transponder while aircraft are on the ground is way above sea level now here. Kind of unusual, but the pressure is kind of low so that explain it.

Lnafziger

Wow, that is pretty low!

-UP = "light unknown precipitation"

DeltaLima

Quite unusual this low pressure. Especially north of Scottland where it below 980 millibar. According the Meteo office it happens less than once every 100 years.

Lnafziger

3:18 PM

wow

DeltaLima

What is the lowest you can set in your aircraft?

roe

Nice. I've never set the altimeter below 1000 hPa/mb.

Lnafziger

Mine is electronic so it's probably pretty low.

Hey roe

DeltaLima

I know of a certain air force that had problems with their electronic altimeters in extreme high pressure conditions last summer :-)

roe

@Lnafziger Hey, how's it going? ;)

Lnafziger

3:20 PM

@roe Good! You?

@DeltaLima Yeah, I heard about that (but didn't realize that it was just this past summer)!

roe

@Lnafziger Would be a shame not to complain about something at least.. ;)

Nah, I'm good, about to call it a day and go pick up some groceries.

casey

4:09 PM

@DeltaLima yea, 980 hPa in an extra-tropical cyclone quite a system.

Stack Exchange

4:28 PM

This Day in Aviation: 7 February 1984

posted on February 07, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

7 February 1984: During mission STS 41-B, NASA astronauts Captain Bruce McCandless II, United States Navy, and Colonel Robert L. Stewart, United States Air Force, left the Space Shuttle Challenger on the first untethered space walk. McCandless tested each of the Manned Maneuverung Units (MMU) while Stewart tested a work station. For 5 hours, 55 minutes, they used the nitrogen-fueled Manned […

flyingfisch

5:11 PM

hello

Aaron

hello @flyingfisch

DeltaLima

5:26 PM

@Lnafziger Just verified the high pressure story. It wasn't last summer but winter 2012 that saw pressure exceeding 1040 which grounded the jets.

voretaq7

5:46 PM

yes I use chat to upload images for comments :)

DeltaLima

Let me guess, this is for the antenna drag question?

voretaq7

@DeltaLima gee how could you tell? :-)

I actually did the math on my plane - if I removed every antenna (both comms, VOR, marker & transponder) I'd pick up something like 2.5 knots in a mathematically perfect world. But the plane would look nicer and isn't that what's important? :-)

DeltaLima

What are those antenna's needed for anyway ;-)

Iceland reached 974 millibar QNH (about 28.76 inch Hg)

voretaq7

6:17 PM

@DeltaLima that big giant one is a combined Nav/Comm antenna

my plane still had a LORAN antenna mounted on it when I got it. First trip to the avionics shop was "Yeah, I've got three antennas and two radios. Figure out which one isn't connected to anything and rip it off"

roe

@voretaq7 Awesome :)

You should've said, find which one isn't connected and hook it up to something new and shiny! :)

voretaq7

@roe dafuq I want with a LORAN antenna? It's tuned for a frequency band that nothing else uses - Gimmie back my 1.2lbs! :-)

roe

Hey, who said anything about using?? The more gadgets, the better the airplane!

voretaq7

meh, I'm a useful-load whore :-P

roe

;)

@voretaq7 what kind of airplane are we talking about anyway?

voretaq7

6:25 PM

@roe Mine? PA28-180C

roe

@voretaq7 yeah, I meant yours. Cool. I'll be looking to get some time in a PA28, would like to take my dad up, but the clubs around there (deep forests of Sweden..) only have PA28s

voretaq7

they're relatively easy to fly - for the most part they're too stupid to try to outsmart the pilot :)

roe

:)

what's the useful load on one of those anyway?

voretaq7

Mine is just over 1100lbs

roe

nice

not bad at all

voretaq7

6:34 PM

so if I'm careful about balance I can cram 4 fat Americans into the seats and still fill the tanks. (No promises on the comfort of the poor bastards in the back. Whoever sits behind me gets about 2" of legroom)

roe

The Katana has about 460 lbs... Fit two fat Europeans in there, and you'll have to run on half tanks..

voretaq7

@roe as long as I can keep useful load above 1000 lbs I'm pretty much good for any kind of flying I'll do. 2-3 people and luggage, or 4 people, luggage, and only take "standard" fuel

I don't really like filling my tanks anyway honestly - it's not really a problem for performance since I'm at sea level and the worst density altitude we see is like 2500 feet in summer, but when I check my fuel tanks and it squirts avgas out the vents when I close the cap that pisses me off

that's 6 ounces of fairly expensive blue go-juice! :P

roe

well I suppose that depends, how long can you stay aloft with full tanks?

voretaq7

@roe "Longer than you'd want to" :-)

roe

;)

voretaq7

6:40 PM

figure about 3 hours on standard fuel, about 4:15-4:30 on full tanks, with 30 minute reserves

roe

The Katana has got 19.5 gallons usable fuel, which delivers roughly 4 hours + 30 minutes, so that's about equivalent. Except you're probably going a lot faster.. ;)

voretaq7

probably a little more if you throttle back and lean aggressively

@roe DA20?

roe

yeah

A1

voretaq7

probably about the same speed - you're burning roughly half the fuel to get it though :)

roe

90 kts at 65%

voretaq7

6:43 PM

@roe eh? Diamond's site says 138@65% are they really that over-optimistic? :)

roe

Well, Vno is 118 kts, so that would be pretty amazing...

voretaq7

I get 130ish at about 65% power, about 110-115 at 55%

roe

This is the DA20 A1 with 80hp Rotax and constant speed prop

voretaq7

@roe ah I'm looking at the C1 specs

roe

Still, 138 sounds a bit optimistic, lemme check the POH, I have it here somewhere.

voretaq7

6:45 PM

@roe the manufacturer numbers are always optimistic

roe

yeah, the POH for A1 says 98 at 65% at maximum weight. Never in a million years.

But still, I think the airframes are very similar, so it would be interesting to know the Vno of the C1

actually, the C1 is a bit larger, has a larger tank too

voretaq7

I think they say I can cruise the cherokee just inside the yellow arc (145mph/125kts), but on a good day I'll see 130/115

@roe yeah there have to be a few changes to support the engine, the continental is heavier than the rotax

also sucks way more fuel though :P

roe

Vno is still 118 though

(looking through a C1 AFM)

100% at sea level yields 130 knots according to this one

voretaq7

well on my last XC I was flirting with Vno at 60% power (gotta love winter) - it was a smooth enough day so no problem sitting in the yellow arc

roe

8000ft density altitude yields roughly 125 kts at 65% (in the C1)

so probably around 115 in real life :)

voretaq7

6:54 PM

that's still pretty respectable - that's indicated/calibrated not true right? :)

roe

true

voretaq7

that's a little less respectable - still not bad though

roe

the Katana is an economical aircraft, I guess we'll have to leave it at that... :)

what bothers me is that it's a two-seater, and maximum of 25lbs in the baggage compartment

voretaq7

economical is good! I wish I could get that kind of fuel burn with the Cherokee's useful load (without having to build a plane myself.)

two-seater isn't a bad deal if it's really a two-seater

there are some LSAs on the market where if I do the math I can take me, full fuel, and a 75lb kid. None of my friends weigh 75lbs

Stack Exchange

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roe

6:59 PM

well with 460lbs useful load, I guess it's 'really' a two-seater

been flying the WT9 Dynamic a bit too. If you weigh less than 200 lbs and you're flying alone, you need to add ballast... That's a two-seater too, weighs two thirds of the Katana, and sports a 100hp rotax (fixed pitch prop though)

climbs like frickin cannonball

voretaq7

@roe pretty close to it I guess

though as my CFI is fond of saying: "Fuel is useful!"

roe

"Let's keep it in the truck so we know where it is!"

my CFI likes "A full tank is a good navigator"

voretaq7

..."I followed my fuel tank around all day but we just kept going in really tight circles!"

roe

:-D

@voretaq7 you got an ME rating by any chance?

voretaq7

@roe nope

feeding one engine is kerspensive enough :)

roe

7:10 PM

yeah, I suppose

voretaq7

besides with piston engines I'm a firm believer in "The more engines you have the more chance something is going to go horribly wrong."

The safest number of piston engines for an aircraft to have is zero.

roe

:)

Good god, why are they getting so hung up on the fact that Victoria Nuland said "F@ck the EU" in a phone conversation she didn't think anyone was listening in on..? Like no one has ever uttered "F@ck the whathaveyou" before. Isn't it more disturbing that they're discussing how to persuade Vitali Klitscko not to go into politics in the Ukraine? :P

voretaq7

@roe you don't understand. She used the F word.

roe

oh noes!

voretaq7

In America we believe our politicians are as pure as the driven snow (despite (a) the impurities contained in the driven snow in the greater New York area and (b) the fact that they're clearly corrupt money-grubbing asshats)

roe

7:19 PM

yellow snow perhaps?

voretaq7

so when one of them drops the F-Bomb it's all terror and hand wringing and won't-somebody-PLEASE-think-of-the-CHILDREN-but-not-like-that-you-pervert!

roe

it might be gold! You don't know!

voretaq7

(Except Joe Biden. We're pretty much accustomed to every other word out of his mouth being "Fuck" at this point.)

roe

:)

casey

9:06 PM

Since someone mentioned Joe Biden, I totall agree with this opinion of his usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/02/07/…

"But if I blindfolded you and took you to LaGuardia Airport in New York, you must think, 'I must be in some third world country.' I'm not joking," he added, according to the Daily News.

Danny Beckett

9:19 PM

> A man tried to hijack Pegasus Airlines flight PC751 while it was flying from Kharkiv (HRK) to Istanbul (SAW). The incident occurred at about 15:07 UTC, at 37,000 feet above the Ukraine city Simferopol, only about 400 km from Sochi when the Olympic Game ceremony was about to start. The Hijacker tried to force the crew to land in Sochi but the crew continued to Istanbul where the aircraft landed safely at 16:04 UTC CNN

voretaq7

9:31 PM

@casey Absolutely not.

Third world airports are nicer than LGA.

voretaq7

9:42 PM

Kinda sad to see "No flying" as a condition of donating a DC-3 to a museum...

voretaq7

10:49 PM

@Lnafziger Psst! you missed one (DC SFRA and its funky "IFR for a VFR flight" flight plans)

Stack Exchange

0

Q: A little bit of FAA vs EASA

I'm trying hard to bring in some new users from EASA-land, but most of the questions seem to specifically mention 'FAA regulations', 'what is the [__] in USA', etc, that I feel kinda silly coming up with an EASA-only answer. I understand most of the user base so far is from the states, but I fee...

discussion

Lnafziger

11:07 PM

@voretaq7 I actually looked for that one and couldn't find a VFR flight plan requirement for it.

@voretaq7 Found it in the reg though, thanks.

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