The Hangar - 2014-01-13 (page 1 of 3)

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12:01 AM

!!weather KPAE

Otto the Autopilot

PAE/KPAE: Snohomish County (Paine Field) Airport • Observed: 8 mins ago • Wind: 160°/SSE @ 7kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Clouds: Overcast @ 1,800ft • Temperature: 8.3°C/47°F • Dewpoint: 6.7°C/44°F • Pressure: 30.10" Hg/1,019mb • Conditions: MVFR

!!weather KBFI

Otto the Autopilot

BFI/KBFI: Boeing Field King County International Airport • Observed: 8 mins ago • Wind: 190°/S @ 13kts; gusts @ 25kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Clouds: Overcast @ 1,700ft • Temperature: 11.7°C/53°F • Dewpoint: 7.8°C/46°F • Pressure: 30.09" Hg/1,019mb • Conditions: MVFR

nope. not flying.

you should allow chained ICAO/IATA identifiers

like !!weather KPAE KBFI

I was thinking that actually

will add it to the list, since it should be fairly easy to add :)

Anonymous

12:06 AM

@DannyBeckett OH YOU DO THAT

@PatoSáinz Your "pimp my jet" question just showed up in the Low Quality Posts review queue :p

@egid @DannyBeckett Great idea. Allow spaces or commas between identifiers, and then respond with one per line. Max 5?

yeah I guess it's wise to impose a limit @lnafziger

Anonymous

@DannyBeckett ;_;

Anonymous

also, people pack your shit the beta is closed

Anonymous

12:11 AM

(jk)

Anonymous

26

Aviation – aviation.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for aircraft pilots, mechanics, and enthusiasts.

Currently in public beta.

Anonymous

btw all our stats are rising

I noticed that too :D

I looked at the new users list too... lots of varied people registering

Anonymous

"-6 rep" ;_; i shouldn't have had the courage to ask such a question

Anonymous

also 1 close vote because "This question does not appear to be about aviation, within the scope defined in the help center."

12:16 AM

what pilot in their right mind is gonna wanna blast techno instead of listening to ATC

Anonymous

@DannyBeckett ...

Anonymous

lol

See, i don't agree with the close vote.

63

Q: A Close Vote is not a Super-Downvote. Please don't use it as one

So, yesterday a dumb question was asked.. It was closed as Not A Real Question in less than an hour, and reopened mere minutes later. This isn't the first time that this has happened. It usually results in lots of arguing and acrimony and generally all comes out of a simple misunderstanding. The...

discussion closing voting

I also chose not to close it when it showed up in VLQ

I think it's just about on-topic, but a poor question

Anonymous

poor question in what sense?

Anonymous

12:18 AM

it's a bad practice

2 mins ago, by Danny Beckett

what pilot in their right mind is gonna wanna blast techno instead of listening to ATC

Anonymous

but not a bad question imo

Anonymous

oh

I kinda want some of what you've been smoking :p

Anonymous

lol i was just wondering if it would be possible

12:20 AM

lol

Anonymous

it's called weed creativity

actually...

> You can buy special headsets that have an audio jack to plug in an mp3 player and the headsets have an independent volume control for the audio device. To prevent us pilots from missing ATC radio calls, the headsets have a nifty little device that turns down the music volume when there is any talking on the radio.

@PatoSáinz I agree with you... that's why I said "I want some of what you're smoking" lol

Bose, etc.

Anonymous

bose is overpriced

Anonymous

good, but overpriced

Anonymous

12:22 AM

beats are not good, and overpriced

to be fair, I think the price of your headset is probably low on your list of expenses, relating to owning a plane

A lot of people really like the Bose headsets, but I wasn't talking about quality. Just that I think that they have an external audio input.

Anonymous

@lnafziger yep a lot of people do

Anonymous

less people like sennheiser but they are both objectively and subjectively the best

What do you guys think of this question: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/943/…

12:25 AM

I bought (and then returned) a Bose that had a bluetooth audio input actually.

@SteveV. Join us in chat?

Anonymous

mostly because they don't look "hip"

Nevermind, there you are, lol.

@lnafziger - hi there!

@SteveV. How goes?

12:26 AM

Can't complain, you?

Anonymous

thanks to whoever two people upvoted my question lol

Pretty good here!

@lnafziger I think it's ok, but the answer's likely to continually change. I've upvoted it to offset your dv anyway

@DannyBeckett I agree that it will continually change, which is why I marked it CW. :)

(And thanks :))

@DannyBeckett >_< I slaved over a hot stove on that downvote

12:27 AM

yeah I agree with your comment of "Well, it is too broad for a standard question, but list type questions like this are allowed as community wiki questions because everybody can help out with it! People here will go through security and see a new item that isn't allowed and will add it to the list, etc...."

@lnafziger See, the problem that i have with it is that I don't think we can ever be the authoritative source for the answer to that question. Nor do i believe we should try.

best solution? ask on Meta

I was going to write up a Meta but then i found the linked answer which summed up my feelings pretty well.

9

A: Rehashing Wikipedia and other resources?

It broadly depends on the resource. We want to avoid 'seeding' the site with general questions that are more than sufficiently answered elsewhere. We definitely want to avoid answers that mostly cite an external resource with a link to learn more. Wikipedia articles can be very difficult to rea...

(for the lazy)

Nods, my point is that there isn't an external resource that has everything. Even the TSA site refers people to www.faa.gov for info on HAZMAT items. Go ahead, go to that site and find the HAZMAT list. I dare you. And then imagine what a non-pilot will go through, lol.

I copy, but i don't agree.

(It may be that i have to think about this one for a while and write up a meta about it after all just to make sure i express myself correctly.)

12:39 AM

@SteveV. Note that we don't have to follow the same guidelines as Stack Overflow. The beta is here for us to decide is what is on- and off-topic

I personally think CW is a great idea for this question; especially given the reasons Louis pointed out above

That's true, I'll be the first to admit that I come to Aviation with a bias from my time over at Arqade. It may be that I never think that it's appropriate and the rest of the community does, and I just have to get over it.

@SteveV. A meta question is a good idea, we should let the community decide whether questions like this are welcome or not. I see your side as well, but still think that it will add value (as well as bring more traffic to the site which is always a good thing).

What I don't want, though, is to have Aviation turn into Sci-Fi.SE, which I think is full of drivel. (Apologies to anyone with more than 3k rep at SciFi.)

Anonymous

@SteveV. oh what's wrong with sci-fi?

Anonymous

0

Q: How should an Traffic Control Tower notify their frequency just changed?

What is the policy for ATCs to notify the frequency they broadcast and monitor on has changed? How do they do it, if radio isn't available (because they just changed their frequency)?

12:45 AM

@PatoSáinz drivel = boring shit

To me, lots.

Meta is up: meta.aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/182/…

3

Q: Is this question (Comprehensive list of prohibited items) appropriate for Aviation.SE?

This question was asked earlier today: What items are banned on commercial airline flights to and from the US? Are questions like this appropriate for Aviation.SE?

I will say that I thought about it for awhile because I wasn't sure if it would fit our scope. I (obviously) ultimately decided that it would add value and went ahead with it.

I also figured that it's kind of a borderline case, and that it would create a discussion which is good for defining the site. :-)

1:07 AM

::nod:: It's not bad that we're having the discussion...if we didn't, we'd just have to have it in two or three months when someone asks "What is a list of all the airplanes that have ever been built?" or some such.

agree

Steve, you're welcome to write another answer with your opinion!

Already am! I'm in the middle of it.

@SteveV. Haha, good! That way you don' t need to worry about your bias. :-)

Oh no, the answer is going to be very biased. But i wanted to make the question as fair as possible.

"Lnafziger asked this stupid question just now. In what ways is he obviously wrong?"

(:

:)

1:13 AM

Didn't want to be That Guy.

lmao, I like it!

ah don't worry, he's only the highest rep user on the site :p

lol

Yeah, and if he jumped off a bridge i'd be pointing and laughing all the way down.

hahaha

Anonymous

@SteveV. nice avatar btw

Anonymous

1:14 AM

looks very professional

0.4 megapixel camera...you lose some resolution.

@PatoSáinz I've been using my avatar for ~10 years... I should change it tbh

Unrelated: how hasn't notam been created already? just created it...

@DannyBeckett Ummmm, wasn't there a meta discussion where we said not to create tags for specific airplanes?

oh shit, was there?

@egid How is one supposed to know whether "many of us" have the knowledge, unless you post a question? It is now clear to me that there are mostly armchair aviators in this forum. If you would hang out in aircraft type specific forums for aircraft owners, you would realize how legitimate my question is. — Aviation Dude 20 mins ago

wow, harsh

1:17 AM

@DannyBeckett And shouldn't crew-resource-management be crm? :-)

because usually if it's a question specific to a model (on SO at least), you use a specific tag

@lnafziger I didn't tag that, it was already there

@DannyBeckett Ahhh, okay, it's the only question so I'm going to change it to CRM so that it matches with the rest of our tags.

cool! I just did that with atc also (which was already burninated once)

can you create a synonym for that? I'm still 200 rep away from the priv

good idea

sure

also, I don't suppose you have a link to the Meta question on specific models?

thx :)

1:20 AM

umm, I'll find it

AviationDude's question probably should have been closed as "Too Localized" rather than "Opinion Based".

n/m I think I just found it

5

Q: Is there a plan for tags for each different aircraft?

Like an F-15, 767, C-130, or the like? Or will these just evolve as people ask questions related to them?

discussion tags

@SteveV. yeah but Too Localized was binned off ~6 months ago

):

1:22 AM

@lnafziger I agree with @voretaq7's answer on that Meta question (and it's evenly split)

meh, I need a 5 score in crm (which nobody has, lol) to suggest the synonym.

even with your fancy 10k tools? :p

@PatoSáinz nooooo, stop recreating atc - lol - gonna burninate it for the 3rd time

@DannyBeckett Well, the big thing I think is just how many of them that there would be... Plus, if I wanted to follow all cessna airplanes, I would have to follow a lot of tags....

no you don't, you can favourite [tag:cessna*]

You can? I didn't realize that, lol

1:25 AM

wildcards work - I use them heavily on Stack Overflow

Nice!

:)

Also, I can't suggest atc as a synonym if you keep burninating it... It has to exist, lol.

what? O.o

odd

"The suggested tag must exist in the system before suggesting it as a synonym".

1:26 AM

heh, never knew that. makes sense! sorry :$

There was a blog post when they came out with them where they said that they wanted to wait until tags were actually used instead of just guessing what might be used in the future and creating a lot of them....

(we actually have zero synonyms, currently)

yeah that's a fair point

@BretCopeland could add atc as a synonym of air-traffic-control and crew-resource-management as a synonym of crm

The thing is that to create a synonym the tag must exist

(We should standardize that btw... What ever happened to that meta post?)

1:28 AM

So y'all deleting tags means we can't make them :)

@lnafziger that was one about abbreviations

@DannyBeckett Yeah, there have been a few.

imo, we should be able to set synonyms easier than this, in initial beta

Maybe we could have in the private beta... I'm not sure.

ah yes that's possible

Anonymous

1:31 AM

@DannyBeckett whry

Anonymous

yes that^^

@PatoSáinz we're using air-traffic-control instead

Anonymous

synonym ftw

Anonymous

also just noticed that kerbal space simulator also lets you build planes

Anonymous

Aviators go play it!

1:33 AM

already do

the atmosphere model is nuts

Anonymous

lol

requires mods

anyway, re: the fuel sender reconditioning thing... how do you answer that question without it being opinion based? just a list of google results?

because I can do that

Yeah, that was my close reason. Opinion based.

now he's getting a little huffy about it i think

i kinda love that armchair aviators thing

we just aren't his type apparently

I chose POP as the reason too, based on the same logic

1:37 AM

@lnafziger man now I won't ever get accepted for that RTOP question :P

no way am I doing that again if I don't have to

:D

I presume we can burninate the 2 questions at tower into air-traffic-control?

ehhhh.... hmm

ATC is not always a tower

but a tower is always ATC

yeah exactly

@egid Haha, sorry. I think that will help people a lot though!

And yeah, tower should stand on its' own, but should be used when it only applies to ATC Control Towers and not as a generic term for atc. (Haven't looked at those questions to see whether they apply or not, I'll check.)

@DannyBeckett Go Danny Go!

BURNINATE!!!111!!1

gone

1:43 AM

wait why

the 2 questions are about ATC

the class d one is specifically about a towered airport

and in fact so is the other one

well, not specifically

hm

I was unsure, so that's why I asked..

I kinda agree now about the first one at least

oh, you edited it @lnafziger..

I do want to point out that @AviationDude makes a good point about type clubs - if we're looking to attract more experts, especially in the maintenance field, that's a good place to start.

@lnafziger - my answer's up. My biggest problem with the question is that it attempts to try to capture all of the prohibited items themselves, which is too big a task for us to take on.

0

A: Is this question (Comprehensive list of prohibited items) appropriate?

This question does not belong on Aviation.SE 1. Is this question something that an expert or professional would be interested in answering? No. Experts and professionals fly commercially just like everyone else, and they'll be just as annoyed if their snow globe gets confiscated. But this...

Whereas "How can I find out if a particular item is prohibited?" would be an excellent question.

1:50 AM

agreed

it's all about phrasing

:D

I know, right? It's almost as if the site were in beta or something.

:)

I'm on a big retag spree; hope nobody minds...

just a reminder

removing / deleting tags makes it impossible to create synonyms

so if you see things that ought to be other things... maybe leave it for now?

it's not so much that, more adding them

I take your point on board about the synonyms though!

I'm about half way through all questions

@lnafziger I'm having a hard time researching your circling minima question

it looks like a draft in 2009 included the protected area radius in the approach plate, but that didn't get implemented

1:59 AM

8 results for vfr is:question -[vfr]

@lnafziger see page 4: aeronav.faa.gov/content/aeronav/acfstatus/RDs/…

got 4 with that search

2:12 AM

whoa, area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/37227/freelancing has been in beta for 236 days

and only 2 users are above 2k rep

Qantas 94 Heavy

We're actually not doing too bad

i know

it's pretty impressive

Qantas 94 Heavy

Yeah, ebooks seems a bit worse off, but time will tell.

That's because some people upvote things to offset other people's downvotes. ::looks sideways at @DannyBeckett::

But I am really impressed by our answer rate.

sure, we each have an opinion! yeah the answer rate is kinda unbeatable

I'd like to get the questions/day up though

2:16 AM

yeah

(it is finally increasing)

I wish I had some good questions to ask

I bet if I was learning to fly I'd probably have a few

...one day

Qantas 94 Heavy

I'm on my phone, but will ask one when I'm back home

Tip: Just buy a copy of the FAR/AIM, read through it, and whenever you find an internal inconsistency, post about it here.

Qantas 94 Heavy

Now when do we get the needs work/okay signs on area 51?

@Qantas94Heavy my guess was after 90 days

@SteveV. that's a good idea. I was reading the FAA order for controllers the other day, which is where I got the laser pen question & answer from

2:23 AM

I did that with Part 61 and Part 91 when I got my CFI, and then I got all discouraged when I kept finding more and more of them and gave up.

So now I just make up whatever sounds good at the time and pray the FSDO doesn't ramp check me.

(:

holy shit, just in the news...

Passenger Records Terrifying Plane Crash On A GoPro Camera

Anonymous

o.o

Qantas 94 Heavy

Oh wow

Anonymous

ugh gopros but woa

"Spiraling into the ocean" my butt.

Anonymous

2:26 AM

sure... spiral...

Anonymous

what went wrong in that flight?

N587MA

!!google N587MA

Otto the Autopilot

@SteveV. flightaware.com/live/flight/N587MA ; planepictures.net/… ; airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-sf3-166.htm

Actually, just read the FARs and when you say "wtf" (which will happen a lot) ask a question....

!!google N587MA NTSB

Otto the Autopilot

2:28 AM

@SteveV. The Google contains no such knowledge

yes, spiral is obviously a synonym for 'straight and level'

didn't you know?

Anonymous

was the "drama" still necessary?

what is that, a caravan?

Just got back from walking the dogs... @DannyBeckett Yeah, I didn't think that any of those were specific to towers (in fact, I edited the "how do I remind ATC that they forgot about me" question to be slightly more generic, because it applies to other ATC facilities as well.)

Anonymous

I mean, i don't think that gently dumping into the ocean means DEATH (like windows vista) and you should flashback your whole life

2:30 AM

@PatoSáinz someone died.

@PatoSáinz ditching is dangerous, always, end of discussion

Anonymous

@DannyBeckett then it did mean death

Anonymous

is there any other news on that?

Anonymous

other than that ABC footage

the reporter says at the end

2:31 AM

One individual died, apparently.

idk, I saw it on my news feed on Facebook from Break, incidentally

aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20131211-0

@SteveV. you were off on 1 character ;)

> The pilot stated that shortly after takeoff, a loud bang was heard and there was a total loss of power.

That sure doesn't look like no "6" to me in the video.

::shrug:: must have washed away when it hit the water.

i froze a frame later on, it's a 6

Anonymous

"11 december" that's recent

2:33 AM

If "All passengers put on their life preservers and exited the airplane", I wonder how one died? injuries after the fact?

80 minutes of exposure?

^

i mean, hawaii, but still

@DannyBeckett Are you looking at the questions to see if there is anything else that you can improve when you retag them? :-)

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

2:35 AM

chile: 2

Anonymous

i think we've got like one incident per 2 months

@lnafziger yeah I did do... didn't find anything in most cases, but I did also edit some. I finished going through all the questions about 20 mins or so ago

@DannyBeckett Cool! Just curious, you changed a lot of them... Fast! Thanks for doing that!

35 apparently... sorry for bumping them all, but I thought we might as well get all questions asked up until now properly tagged

(also why I mentioned it earlier, in case anyone objected)

@egid There is a surprising lack of information about the new circling minimums from the FAA. That NBAA article is the only reason that I even know about it.

2:38 AM

@lnafziger yeah. i hadn't heard either. it's a bit disturbing, honestly.

I mean, nothing got lower, but...

Actually, I think that a lot of minimums will be raised when they expand the area and new obstacles are in the area.

that's true, but the safe radii didn't decrease

that's what I meant

for a given category

@SteveV. Lol, our answers on the recent Meta question are both on +2/-2 = 0

lmao

nice

2:41 AM

I guess I was right about being "borderline"

I miss being able to see vote counts...i think the SE system values that too highly in the rep system.

you can see them

It should be something like 300 rep instead of 750 or whatever it is.

let me find you the link

@SteveV. I agree, especially if you are a user with significant rep on another site.

@egid Do you think that including the table in your answer would be useful for future people looking into this?

2:43 AM

41

Q: "View Vote totals" without 1000 rep

Screenshot About The vote counts are a great tool to determine whether an answer is disputed or not. Unfortunately, not many of us have enough time to join all Stack Exchange websites and get 1000 reputation. This script unlocks the "View Vote counts" feature for those who are not logge...

script chrome-extensions greasemonkey bookmarklet

@SteveV.

@lnafziger I'm not sure - I didn't want to screenshot it, and it's something that is probably better referred to live anyway.

but if I can find a link to it on an faa site, I'd do that

@egid Well, the NBAA site isn't really "live" either, and I don't think that they are going to be changing after they are published :)

yeah. that's true. however, it's one of the only places that talks about it :) I'd deemphasize the NBAA link if an FAA one appeared, is what I mean

@lnafziger - do the Falcons you fly have AoA indicators?

don't suppose anyone's watched History Channel's: Top 10 Extreme Airports?... some of the clips look good

@egid Yeah, they updated the AIM with a little info about it, but the image links are broken, lol.

@egid Some of them do, some don't. Most do though.

It's an option. :)

2:47 AM

any thoughts on it?

I keep going back and forth on whether to look into AoA as an installed upgrade

I'm not sure I do anything in my normal flying that 100% justifies its installation

Do you guys think that questions involving circling approaches should be tagged circling or circling-approach or approach-circling or iaps-circling or....?

circling-approach with perhaps some others as synonyms

@egid It's great if you can train yourself to use it. I refer to it once in awhile, but since it isn't a primary instrument directly in your field of view, it gets forgotten about a lot.

I'd go with circling-approach to be conducive with the site being for enthusiasts as well as experts

@egid I mainly use it as a cross-check to make sure that our Vref got calculated correctly.... If it isn't in the right spot on final approach, we probably screwed something up.

2:53 AM

@lnafziger was this a joke or did you actually have something in mind for this to do? :p meta.aviation.stackexchange.com/a/168/97

can someone create the tag wiki for airman-certificate?

@DannyBeckett It's a joke. Apparently a bad one judging by the (lack of) response and your question. :-)

lol! fair enough

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