TRPG General Chat - 2021-11-26

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AncientSwordRage

12:23 AM

@BESW say what?

That's mad

[expansive shrug] Apparently poverty can only mean absolute privation? Access to any of the basic amenities means you're just a whinger.

3 hours later…

3:01 AM

Started now: Cyber [Week] Bundle A bundle hosted by Emanoel Melo. The Cyber [Week] Bundle brings a diverse collection of tabletop RPGs, supplements and modules, from 33 creators around the globe. We hope you can join us in this consensual hallucination.

2 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

5:07 AM

5

Q: Can yuan-ti fall in love with each other?

I have a few ideas of an adventure involving a large group of yuan-ti. The back story would include two yuan-ti falling in love and hence trying to get what is necessary to stay together in order to consummate their love. The Monster Manual (p. 307) describes the Cold of Heart trait of the yuan-t...

dnd-5e dungeons-and-dragons lore romance yuan-ti

@HotRPGQuestions Ah yes. Can an entire group of obviously sapient people feel emotions, or is their Inscrutable Asian coding just too much for that? Maybe if they're mixed-race enough, they can inherit the ability to love!

2 hours later…

6:40 AM

oh god

jeeeeezzzzzz

2 hours later…

8:10 AM

"InThe News - Feat. Lacuna Apostasys, People of the Law, Creator Day, Half-Assed Jam and more"

3 hours later…

AncientSwordRage

10:44 AM

@BESW you know a topic is dumb, when even DaleM, who has previously stated that roleplaying is not fun (I can't find the answer, so I'm not confident anymore) says that bit of fluff is the DMs choice...

@TheDragonOfFlame A note on a comment, homebrew reviews are on-topic, several people are likely to downvote them when they don't meet our bar of expectations, but there is no controversy about whether they are on-topic.

AncientSwordRage

11:30 AM

What's it called when somebody edits a post to say "EDIT, 30/02/1712: I figured our how to fix the calendar" instead of working the information in to the question

Not sure about the term, but "please post a self-answer" is the response, no?

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil that's the 'advice', except it had a semi-decent answer

I'm sure it had a term, like you'd say "Please don't signal your edits?"

11:54 AM

I don't know if that particular forum crime ever got a name like that

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

50

Q: Don't signal your edits in text

To amplify the bullet from here: Stop using the "Edit:" syntax of forums. We have explicit revision histories on everything, so everything should read as if the best version was the first version. if you see Edit: X hanging around, edit it out to make the content flow more smoothly. Specificall...

discussion faq editing

Oh, wait, were you asking about the "edit" part or the "figured it out" part (I was assuming the latter)

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil they're the same bit

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica ah it is that

12:36 PM

@AncientSwordRage The answers suggest that Wizards isn't just leaving the head off the robot, it's burying the robot's head in the woods and saying "well if you want the robot to have a head, we aren't stopping you."

And that's setting aside that the asker is clearly looking for published statements and that's being dismissed out of hand.

AncientSwordRage

@AlexisWilke There are literally and explicitly no such limits. All published material is yours to change, remix, mash-up and modify however you see fit. It’s 100% your game to run however you want. — Marq 6 hours ago

While I don't disagree, like you say, you shouldn't have to hunt for robot heads

That's like telling a jazz musician they don't have to study the Real Book because jazz is improvisational.

It's just extra awful in this case because the Real Book in question is crammed with bigoted songs.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW "Oh you don't have to play those songs"

I read those answers as relevant because the querent's recognised their story would be about an exceptional case, and are wondering if this is baseline possible; the answers are saying "Yeah, this special case is possible, the book just lets you do it." (And one of them is pointing out there's not even a consistent definition of what a yuan-ti is because they keep getting re-invented)

Like, we'd be fine with a story where two stone golems have wound up in love, despite the material possibly even saying stone golems can't really do that. But these ones have, and that's what makes the story kind of interesting.

AncientSwordRage

12:52 PM

I would be more comfortable if there was precedent. I think there are limits to what you can do with existing monsters, even if it's my own world and not Forgotten Realms or such. — Alexis Wilke 15 hours ago

OP definitely needs their frame challenged

Maybe they'll get an answer saying something like "Yes, in this AD&D 2e adventure there was a page that mentioned a mural that depicted two yuan-ti in love", but until that answer arrives (and it may yet arrive) the answers of "on multiple levels you totally have permission to make this exceptional case happen" are very reasonable answers

I agree that the answers are relephant but the dismissive, condescending tone of the frame challenge really doesn't sit right. It's very normal for someone to want to know how much they're deviating and how much of a fight they're gonna have with by-the-book friends at the table.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener would AL impose such a limitation?

From a very practical stance, it's reasonable to want to build on existing material, if any exists, just so that I don't have to do all the creative work myself!

AncientSwordRage

@BESW this is true and very valid

I like the other answer, by J.A. Streich though: "Monsters are individuals". It's a strong opener

12:58 PM

So while all of this "you shouldn't care" "do it yourself" is technically true and not entirely useless, they're acting like the asker couldn't possibly know their own mind and actually want to know the question they're asking.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I've not read that from the accepted answer

@AncientSwordRage It is quite directly "do it yourself." There's no lore, no suggestions for how to do it yourself, there's no actual useful guidance except "permission" to self-guide.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I'm wondering if that 'permission' is what the OP is after though?

The other answer has a much more condescending attitude but provides at least a modicum of example for how yuan-ti have been modified in the published material.

@AncientSwordRage Then they have magically intuited the needs of the asker without reference to the question which specifically asks about published lore.

A lucky guess as to the "real" need of the asker should probably also try to answer the question as asked just in case they're wrong. That's why we have the guidelines about frame challenges, to avoid answers that are just guessing what the real problem is.

@AncientSwordRage I've got no idea, but they're not running this for AL.

1:08 PM

I have absolutely no patience for answers that take "what does the book say" and think "don't read the book, do whatever you want" is a necessary and sufficient solution.

@BESW I don't think it's a lucky guess. The querent is looking for permission to do their thing. The answers are saying they have permission no matter what the yuan-ti lore says. Yeah, it would be helpful for answers to also cover the yuan-ti lore, but that's a thing frame challenges can opt to do or not do (and accept the risks) and it remains the case that even if yuan-ti lore had no comment or expressly forbade it they still have permission to do it—but it would inform how they do it.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener yeah, sorry, throwing a random hypothetical in there

@doppelgreener How is this any different from the goblin in Fate answers where people responded to questions about the book with "you can do it however you like?" 'cause we had a whole meta about the problem with that, if you recall.

AncientSwordRage

I was thinking it could be worth phrasing somethign as "This isn't AL, where X..."

@BESW that happens quite often though, especially with frame challenges

@BESW this is true, the answers could do better

@BESW I guess one difference is that D&D lore and I share mutual disrespect

AncientSwordRage

1:10 PM

@BESW very true

Good frame challenges respect the asker by answering what was asked and then talking about another way to approach the problem.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW agreed

Well, not necessarily

My "how do I get my revenge" answer fully declined to answer the question and was reasonable to do so

The option to entirely decline to answer the question asked is an integral part of the option of a frame challenge

But I agree the answers would be better if they cited yuan-ti lore at the same time as pointing out the exception

AncientSwordRage

I suppose 'Good frame challenges tend to ...' might be a more agreeable wording?

@doppelgreener That feels like splitting definitional hairs. You showed why the question as asked was better unanswered, instead of ignoring it entirely or making passive-aggressive comments about it.

1:14 PM

I'm not splitting hairs

That counts as respecting the asker by answering the question, for our purposes--just like proving a question can't be answered is an answer.

@BESW I'm directly contesting that a good frame challenge must respect the asker by answering what was asked.

AncientSwordRage

there explicitly answering and then there's implicitly answering

I agree they have to respect the answer and can fail to do so by not answering the question.

I'm disagreeing that those things all go together and must happen together for the frame challenge to be good.

Okay, I'll take being called out on using "answer" in an un-usefully broad way.

1:27 PM

(oops, repsect the asker*)

Hooray, just got some appointments booked in I've been kinda sleeping on making for a few weeks!

I think I'll bounty Alexis's question requesting an authoritative answer to what they actually asked about the yuan-ti, once it can be bountied

AncientSwordRage

1:40 PM

@doppelgreener I've been tempted to write an answer myself

AncientSwordRage

2:01 PM

But I already have a partially completed answer hanging round in my drafts...

AncientSwordRage

2:12 PM

To answerers: Frame challenges are generally better when they also answer the question asked (in this case, about the yuan-ti lore) in addition to skipping past it to respond to the perceived real actual problems. — doppelgreener 40 mins ago

@doppelgreener I think 'when they also address the question' or 'acknowledge' may have been better words (assuming I am understanding your comment correctly, apologies if I haven't and am just imposing my interpretation)

3:06 PM

@AncientSwordRage you're probably right

AncientSwordRage

3:22 PM

@doppelgreener Alas, if this was SFF I could have mod-abused and edit in there for you, if you wanted to you could delete and repost (like, it's 99.99% not worth it but ... up to you)

2 hours later…

5:50 PM

Party runs into a grizzly bear. Bear panics and plays dead. Party panics and also plays dead. None of the above realize this because all of their eyes are closed.

lol

Hot RPG Questions

6:27 PM

5

Q: How to pick a name for Dungeons & Dragons

I'm starting in Dungeons & Dragons, is there a set of rules or standards or any references or fashion on creating your name? for example: in www.dndbeyond.com it asks to choose a username for your account, and the placeholder text when you are asked to type something is: "BruenorBattleHammer" Ho...

dnd-5e character-creation new-players character

1 hour later…

AncientSwordRage

7:36 PM

@doppelgreener posted

collapses in heap

needs HEAVY copy-editing probably, and checking my sources are correct

exemplary work

8:07 PM

Everybody get in line to bounty ASR's answer on Yuan-Ti.

:D

I think Doppel had first, I got dibs on second.

I have to give more than Doppel if I'm going to catch her for most bountied rep all time.

Im still 2000 rep behind you @doppelgreener

8:25 PM

speaking of which... :D

This upcoming Hatmas Season, consider joining me in my tradition of Bountymas: find good answers that deserve something extra from users under 20k, and place bounties to reward them!

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov it's not bounty worthy yet....

Walking home and too cold to edit... May not have time at home tonight either

@AncientSwordRage "no all drow are evil" -> "not all drow are evil"

Sloppeh, sloppeh

@doppelgreener speaking of which...I'm still waiting on my artist's interpretation of thomas puking rainbows :P

I would feel absolutely vulgar suggesting a single-character edit, though

@Axoren You dont have to suggest it tho, just do it lol

8:35 PM

Such a minor edit and then getting my name on the revise log seems wrong to me.

For the most part, it was really tongue-in-cheek

"Oh, the whole post is sloppy over one typo"

AncientSwordRage

Wait til bobble sees it 👀

Honestly, I think you could have prepublished this on arxiv.

Get yourself cited in academic papers, lol

Only problem is the hyperlinks and it would make a good whitepaper

9:05 PM

@ThomasMarkov wait what??

i think i've completely forgotten about this if it's something i gotta do!

I seem to recall that you mentioned doing some drawings from the hat thread last year

oh, goodness, that super didn't happen, did it

9:24 PM

@doppelgreener My disappointment is tremendous.

Tremendously tremendous, even.

To be clear, I am joking, I only just remembered it when you mentioned hatmas

1 hour later…

AncientSwordRage

10:41 PM

> My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

I believe that is the meme

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: The costs of Obfuscation

Obfuscate is clearly a strong discipline. Like, at level 2 it allows a Nosferatu to at least get places, and a 3 totally negates their Appearance 0 trait by appearing as whoever they want - as long as they are a good manipulator and actor. It gets even better at 4, when he becomes unnoticeable by...

vampire-the-masquerade vampire-20th-anniversary

AncientSwordRage

11:00 PM

Ok there wasn't as much to fix in my Yuan-Ti answer as I thought.

Hot RPG Questions

11:11 PM

5

Q: What is a community copy?

On my question Where did the concept of community copies originate in the indie scene? an up-voted comment asked the question: What is a community copy? So what is a community copy in the indie ttrpg space?

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Nov '2126

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