TRPG General Chat - 2021-10-19

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12:30 AM

Good mid-morning all

And good luck to all in the elction :)

election*

I should correct my resume. "Typing skills: mediocre at best"

@Medix2 [jumping up and down excitedly] oh! oh! I think I did that once :D

3 hours later…

3:38 AM

@doppelgreener I've seen this mentioned before... but I also recall some others noting that the claimed connection between a given magical component/ingredient and the mundane plant it supposedly referred to was tenuous at best.

...Aha, it was a Skeptics.SE question where I saw this come up:

15

Q: Are the ingredients listed in "Macbeth" common plants?

It is easy to find dozens of sites claiming, generally without attribution, that the ingredients in the famously gruesome witches' brew from Shakespeare's play Macbeth are herbalist jargon for common plants. For instance, according to Aldersbrook Resort: The witches scene in Shakespeare’s “Macbe...

language plants literature

Hot RPG Questions

4:08 AM

11

Q: Approximately how much damage should a concentration spell do each round to be balanced against instantaneous damage spells?

The DMG (p. 283) provides a table for approximate damage for single target and multiple target spells by level: Spell Level One Target Multiple Targets Cantrip 1d10 1d6 1st 2d10 2d6 2nd 3d10 4d6 3rd 5d10 6d6 4th 6d10 7d6 5th 8d10 8d6 6th 10d10 11d6 7th 11d10 12d6 8th 12d10...

dnd-5e spells damage concentration

4:53 AM

Welcome to Queensland. We have a forecast/weather warning for Hail in summer.

Hot RPG Questions

5:46 AM

3

Q: What happens to the multiple attack penalty if I use a readied action to step out of melee range?

Under this video and in various groups, there is a debate about what happens after a character uses a readied action to step out of melee range. I did not find an official answer, so maybe you guys can help satisfy my curiosity. I think it can be summarized to three possible outcomes: The attack...

actions pathfinder-2e readied-action

2 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

7:23 AM

1

Q: Is a creature that is not on the ground affected by the the Sleet Storm spell's risk of falling prone?

The spell sleet storm on page 276 in the Player's Handbook says, in part: The ground in the area is covered with slick ice, making it difficult terrain. When a creature enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a fail...

dnd-5e spells targeting area-of-effect flight

7:41 AM

[amused] Apparently the candidate score calculation doesn't put a lot of weight on the recentness of site activity.

Chase the H0ll0w by Brandon Leon-Gambetta. A game of fear and isolation for 3 to 5 players who would go into a bunker in the woods to follow something horrifying.

AncientSwordRage

8:21 AM

@BESW heh

I think in the right circumstances you could make a very good mod, but I understand these aren't those circumstances and I know you've said before you didn't want to

2 hours later…

9:52 AM

@Ben when else would you get hail?? not summer????

@V2Blast fascinating [doppel says, pronouncing the 'c']

10:07 AM

@V2Blast That is a really interesting link you posted. I've seen that reported many times (the herbal code) and it turns out to be a modern revisionist history.

1 hour later…

11:18 AM

@Scrollreader Nice finds on your find familiar question.

11:31 AM

I believe one of the live campaign things or something lets you summon an ooze

10

Q: Is the gelatinous ice cube familiar from the "D&D Celebration 2020" event official?

During the D&D Celebration 2020 event, a new option for a familiar was revealed in the form of the image below: I assumed it was official material because it was produced directly by a Wizards of the Coast event, though it does not appear in the the latest book (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything). ...

dnd-5e familiars dnd-adventurers-league

@Medix2 I recall it being a gelatinous cube

Right, there it is .

...I once surprised a 3.5 campaign by outfitting a dwarf battalion with Ooze Saddles.

Yeah. I am aware of a couple of familiar options from living campaigns, but they're kind of their own thing, and I do not have access to any

Ooze saddles were one of many very, very strange things from the Arms & Equipment guide, like Climbdogs.

(An item which, when worn, creates a force sphere around you that only repels oozes, but is small enough that an ooze can still engulf you; with practice you can bang move inside the ooze in ways that compel it to move in the desired direction. And you can feed the ooze potions by just tossing them out of your sphere. A flanking maneuver of flying, invisible, fire-breathing oozes, anyone?)

Oh, we bought a climbdog as a pet for a traveling merchant so he wouldn't be so lonely on the road.

A&E and Savage Species (urgh, that name) were two of my most-used books as a 3.x GM.

Such a very strange book. I bought it for collapsible poles and hammocks, and ended up gawking at ooze saddles and climbdogs and all sorts of bizarre things.

11:40 AM

Ignored all the attempts to pretend the D&D economy might make sense, though.

For me, the best 3.5 book I ever bought was the Stronghold Builders Guide. Still useful, so long as you adjust or ignore the wondrous architecture

Heh. Probably shows a big difference in our groups' preferred styles; I didn't spend as much time making elaborate architectural structures like dungeons, compared to world/culture/character building.

For at least 3/4 of my time in 4e I just took published adventure modules and re-skinned the mechanics and narrative to fit our stories.

Then I didn't even have to do that once I broke out into other systems.

Other than a remarkable evangelism and preference for hammocks over bedrolls, my players don't really care about stuff like equipment they carry (ie, A&EG, Dungeonscape). But they really are invested in making sure they have the best library, or that the bedroom is appropriately epic. Don't ask me why.

Heheh

I mostly used A&E and SS for the worlds and characters they'd meet. They were big on exploration and making friends, and all those templates and creatures and items were excellent ways to surprise and delight my friends.

(For example, the flying invisible fire-breathing oozes were on their side in a siege where they were helping defend a fortification.)

Seriously. We added a new player for 5e, and there was a ten minute explanation on why to buy a hammock instead (less encumbrance! Which I don't track), and by the time they added poles to set it up on any terrain, etc it's not any less weight. But it was one of the first things they had me gin up for 4e and 5e

Possibly it's because I tend towards less fantastical worlds. Less high magic

11:50 AM

I get the appeal of granular resource management, but it's never been a focus in any of my groups.

I adore Eberron, but even there it's more wide magic, than high. And default settings were always more Greyhawk or sword and sorcery than stuff like your cavalry, awesome though it is.

We tend to be more of the "I'll give you an automatic crit with this attack if you agree that it's your last arrow" kind of play.

It's obviously a much bigger deal if you have a whole unit or squad of ooze riders, or a culture, than if a player has one as a one off thing

I've never run any formally recognized setting continuity in D&D; the closest I ever came was PoL, and that barely even counts as continuity at all, given 4e's choice to make its lore be deliberately contradictory in the details.

BESW - We are (slowly) drifting in that direction, thanks largely to systems like Mutants & Masterminds and others with more player creation and meta-currencies. But it's a slow road, and also, for some reason they are far more into player authorship and drama in non d&d. I think for a sort of nostalgia or even just internal silo-ing

11:54 AM

But it was always an interesting source of tension, that D&D moves from low-magic to high-magic across its level gradient and never really tries to reconcile its worlds around that.

(Which I think is one of the strengths of the franchise, really--it's a kitchen sink fantasy whose content began very simply with "everything the designers thought was cool" and it's at its best when it's not trying to make sense out of that joyous muddle.)

It's one of the things I likez about Eberron. Basically, PCs are all but unique in setting. The world changes due to magic ... but only up to about 3rd to 5th level Spells. I never understood how, for example, the realms was supposed to stay the realms with all the males there

Also true. Butbi adore a well thought out consequence of things. Like in 3e, the hollowfaust: city of necromancer book, or how 4e radials might change stuff

I've definitely come around as a big fan of anti-canon.

4E: Like, Dragonborn are too heavy for horses. What does their cavalry look like? Every elf ever born gets one amazing attack a day. Why wouldn't they just fire it, and then go hide until tomorrow, making for a terrifying guerilla force

Etc

@Scrollreader I don't think I've seen a "wide vs. high" magic distinction before, but I immediately get it. Is this something you've coined?

It's something I've felt for some time, but it's actually from Keith Baker, the original setting creator for Eberron. I don't remember if it's from his blog or an actual book

It's a really nice way to describe a world in which magic is common, but high levels aren't, even if you aren't fully industrializing magic like Eberron does

12:01 PM

One of the reasons I so enjoy settings like the Five Gods is that they employ what might be considered wide magic in ways that resonate with my own cultural experiences.

What does it mean for society if things like the ability to cure disease, or enhance agriculture are not uncommon?

Assuming NPCs follow the same racial rules as PCs, which seems reasonable, every 5E elf knows a cantrip, and it's also possible to teach feats. Why wouldn't an elven community have a tradition of one or two family members learning goodberry, and entirely dispense with farming and hunting as non-recreational activities?

Sorry, incomplete thought there: feats, including Magic Initiate [Druid].

Oh, absolutely. That's the sort of thing I mean

And even if significantly less common, Continual Light is a gamechanger.

Now, presumably feat training is rare or hard to do for reasons (so pcs don't just get all the feats). But at least one old woman in the village probably has a magic initiate feat, even if she doesn't have class levels.

I've considered doing something like this for a 'half level' or commoner game before. But it's harder to do for non-casters. (Casters can just be commoners with a feat. Maybe I'll go back and look at the multiclass proficiency rules again. I think I have notes somewhere in a word file ...)

I appreciated that 4e made it clear PC traits aren't universal. Not because PCs are more exceptional than everyone else (though that's generally true as well because 4e is big on the Big Heroes idea) but just because the world's a lot more interesting when people are all different.

I like the fact that bad guys aren't following PC rules. And I miss minions. But overall, I'm pretty happy with 5e. Still a few House rules, but probably my favorite version of d&d overall

I kept the Dragonborn Rhino Cavalry in my personal world, though.

12:14 PM

By the time 5e came out, I'd realized that D&D wasn't really meeting any of my needs; most of the fun we were having was from the group, often in spite of the franchise regardless of edition. So we moved on to other systems that did stuff we enjoyed more.

nods we tend to hop systems, depending on what people want to play. I wouldn't mind doing d&d type adventurers in one of our other systems, but I tend to get out voted. Currently we have mutants and masterminds, the one ring, edge of the empire, and two 5e games (one of which I get to play in, and not run!)

4e being such a well-structured and cogent mechanical system helped me recognize that changing editions wasn't a solution; it was so much better for my group than 3.5 had been, but it still wasn't really working for me.

That's totally fair. For me, it's all about the right system for the job. Whatever you define the job as.

We haven't done much since the pandemic, but we played a lot of Fate (Atomic Robo, Masters of Umdaar), Cthulhu Dark, Lady Blackbird, Golden Sky Stories, and so on. Currently looking forward to someday playing Wanderhome, Fate of Agaptus, Sun's Ransom, Balikbayan...

Had one long-form campaign where it was mostly Atomic Robo rules but we spent a whole adventure visiting Masters of Umdaar and everybody there used those rules; and also a few sessions of that campaign used Monster of the Week or Don't Rest Your Head. (and we retconned a Cthulhu Dark game to be in continuity with that setting)

nods

12:21 PM

Unpredictable attendance schedules meant revising our play expectations around episodic ensemble casts for long-form stories, and a lot of one-shots.

Gave us a LOT of room to experiment without feeling like we were committing to something long-term or like we'd failed if we didn't return to it.

Whereas I tend towards playing with a small group of good story people who are not very up on system mastery, and almost pathologically afraid they will mess up a new system they don't know. We just took about half of them from 3.5 to 5e THIS YEAR.

Even though many of the systems would be/are far more forgiving, or have less fiddly bits for them to remember

Yeah, it took a while to get from "D&D only and if you can't come every week you'll just fade away" to where we were at the beginning of last year.

Relephant:

48

A: How do I convince my group to try a new system without always having to DM it first?

I've had similar challenges, both with getting group buy-in to try new systems and with getting people to feel comfortable GMing anything at all. My solution was a long-game process of changing the "landscape" of how people at the table viewed their role in the game. I didn't set out to delibera...

Doing very different genres has been helpful. Mutants obviously works better than d&d for superhero stores, and is d20 based. Tolkien has different needs than d&d (shudders in the direction of MERP), etc. But it's slow going

We also adapted D&D to meet our needs, very explicitly. Like replacing turn order with "popcorn" initiative.

And things like skill challenges made adapting to Fate much easier because there was solid schema for Fate's attitude toward skill applications and scene resolution.

(Popcorn initiative is my second-favorite turn order tool!)

12:39 PM

Popcorn init looks interesting! Out of curiosity, what is your favorite method?

DWAITAS (that's Doctor Who Adventures In Time And Space) determines turn order by what sort of thing you're doing:

May 15 '17 at 20:43, by BESW

> a) Talkers – any people who are just going to speak? Now’s their time to talk.
b) Runners – people who are just moving? Here’s when they go!
c) Doers – non-combat actions. Need to fix something, or do something, now’s the time to act!
d) Fighters – combat actions go last.

It's a really really solid way to support specific kinds of fiction, where a more D&D-like initiative system would give priority and emphasis to the 'wrong' kinds of actions for the genre and tone.

Popcorn was really good for D&D 4e, because it gave added layers to the tactical choices the game thrived on.

Gotcha. Old world of darkness larp had similar (house?) Rules? Socials, then mentals, then physical actions.

I've never run a Doctor Who game using any of the the official licensed systems, but I used DWAITAS initiative for our FAE Doctor Who adventure.

12:54 PM

nods It definitely encourages noncommittal

Noncombat actions and resolu9

It was also really good for our Stargate SG-1 game.

(Again, used a customized version of Fate Accelerated Edition, because the licensed SG-1 game is one of the least convincing franchise TRPGs I've ever seen.)

1:07 PM

So many great settings in licensed gaming with such terrible rules

I take a certain amount of [popcorn.gif] pleasure in reading the GURPS book for The Prisoner

The mismatch is a lot more subtle than trying to use d20 Spycraft for SG-1.

@Mithical [wave]

*waves back* Thought I'd pop in and say hello. :)

@BESW This is interesting. I might give that a try at some point. (I've just started running a D&D5e game for my siblings, none of whom are experienced in any system, so it's not like it'll be a huge change to get used to.)

1:26 PM

It's pretty neat! Really resonates with the way a lot of TV shows work, I find.

And I know at least one person in this chat is working on a variant form for their game, to push a different kind of theming.

Has anyone read through the Version labels for answers product discovery? It has been mentioned that it may be have some utility for us.

1:42 PM

@ThomasMarkov Yup. It looks like it might be a lot of work.

But if it isn't, then it should provide some utility.

@Akixkisu It seems to me that for the most part, the tool doesn't really fit our tagging paradigm.

@ThomasMarkov Yes, and no. I think there is an argument there for using it for D&D specifically to mark content up to a specific book's release.

It would make sense for lore questions that request info from any edition of a game, and maybe some system agnostic questions (?), but generally we don't info from any version except the exact one asked about.

Instead of doing the suggested 3.5 5ething.

@Akixkisu So like, having 5e sub-versions marking questions up to the release of XGtE or TCoE?

1:46 PM

@ThomasMarkov exactly.

Whihc also takes care of a frequent problem of updated content dupilcates requiring different answers.

@Akixkisu Or for answers prior to specific errata?

@ThomasMarkov I think you accidentally a verb.

Either seem like something that we may consider if it happens to be a thing.

@BESW What? You've never seen info a verb?

Don't think so. Sounds like jargon specific to a particular profession, maybe?

1:57 PM

@BESW I definitely accidentally a verb.

2:08 PM

@ThomasMarkov I think it is more of a use case that implies an up to version. Take the JC ruling era - an up to version question that has a JC said something on Twitter answer is considerably different from an up to version after the JC ruling era - where the JC ruling is just JC ruling at their table.

So if you are interested in a non-JC ruling era answer, you may ask a perfect duplicate question with a different version - that duplicate is not closed because it handles a different post JC era ruling version of the game.

0

Q: Version labels for answers: is this a tool we could use?

Stack Exchange recently announced version labeling for answers, something they will initially work on implememnting at Stack Overflow. The details are laid out in this Meta.se post: Version labels for answers. This community wiki answer identifies RPG as a possible destination for implementing th...

2:29 PM

@ThomasMarkov Who is stepping down? Two positions open?

@JohnP Two positions to be elected, as far as we know, none of the three moderators are stepping down.

@ThomasMarkov Ah, ok. That makes sense, they just posted in recently. Good luck to all, I have not been around enough lately with homework/training to justify running again.

I feel like we have a dupliacate out there for this question, but I can't find it.

@Medix2 your second link in that comment looks like a good dupe target, what do you think

Also, wattup @JohnP

2:58 PM

@Akixkisu Note that the MSE post is about version labels for answers - the answers would still be under the same question, just that answers would be labeled with the "version" (or equivalent) of the game that the answer is for.

@JohnP Hi JohnP! Hope you're doing well :)

@V2Blast Hm, it seems like I missed a crucial point.

I suppose the feature is is much less interesting in that case.

@V2Blast I am. Past the 1/2 way point for a masters degree, and just starting training for Master Instructor, so the next year is busy. Fam is good, all healthy, things going well.

@JohnP What are you studying for your degree?

@JohnP Glad to hear it! My new job has been going well, and I've finally ordered some home office stuff that'll get reimbursed by the company ;)

@ThomasMarkov Information Security/Assurance.

Right now I'm working in data loss prevention for $company

@V2Blast Awesome! We are about to have a 15% reduction in our workforce, a lot of people refusing to get vaccines. (We do govt contract work, so have to follow their guidelines).

Our group is still able to WFH, but a lot are going to a 3 in, 2 home type of schedule.

3:08 PM

@JohnP Yikes

@V2Blast yeah, it's kind of a mess. I'm now on my 4 different manager in 5 months between job change and departures/moves.

Thankfully that's not a concern for me

@JohnP Oof

@V2Blast It's not all bad, but right now I'm just waiting out 8 more months before I can post for a different group. Unless a promotion slot opens up, I can dodge the minimum time in a position if I move up a level.

Today's topic - Ransomware as a Service (RAAS). Yay, the bad actors are franchising

@ThomasMarkov Honestly, I would think the third is a dupe

"Should players know other creatures' HP" vs "Are PCs supposed to know how many HP an enemy has left?"

3:33 PM

@JohnP By the way, I don't recall if you saw/heard what my new job was... :)

@V2Blast No, I don't think I did. Are you content creator for WotC now? ;-)

Haha, not quite...

102

Q: Please welcome Valued Associates: #958 - V2Blast & #959 - SpencerG

It is with much excitement that I present to you our newest members of the Community Team: V2Blast and SpencerG! These Community Managers - including one who comes from the existing corps of moderators - are joining the Curator Support Team and will be reporting to me. It’s great to see our team ...

discussion announcements community-managers

Oh hai, that's awesome! Congrats!

@JohnP Thanks! :D

Did they add or replace?

3:42 PM

The company's been hiring several CMs over the last several months. 2 on Community Operations (Slate and Vanny), then me and Spencer on Curator Support, and most recently we've hired 2 CMs on the Trust and Safety team.

Sweet. Glad to see the company growing. You'll be a great addition. :)

I think Ayo used to be on the Curator Support team, but he left the company before I joined

Thank you! I'm excited to see what I can do to help improve the mod experience now that I'm on the other side of things.

4:37 PM

@V2Blast Ooh. Hadn't heard about that last bit yet...

Hot RPG Questions

4:53 PM

2

Q: For the Call of the Hunt feature of the Path of the Beast barbarian, do the willing creatures need to want -- or even be ABLE -- to make attacks?

Call the Hunt, the 14th-level Path of the Beast barbarian feature, says: When you enter your rage, you can choose a number of other willing creatures you can see within 30 feet of you equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum of one creature). You gain 5 temporary hit points for each creature...

dnd-5e class-feature barbarian

7

Q: Rogue Feats & Damage: Elven Accuracy vs Mobile

Purely in terms of potential damage, am I better off taking Elven Accuracy, or Mobile, as a first feat at Level 4? Question Conditions: The option to disengage after making melee attacks is crucial to this question; thus the Mobile feat makes two weapon fighting viable (thanks to the free diseng...

dnd-5e feats optimization damage rogue

5:19 PM

@Mithical They just started last week! I don't think they've been announced on MSE yet

3 hours later…

8:09 PM

@JohnP three people where I work have already resigned over that, we are having a little coffee for one tomorrow who I've been working with for over a decade.

Also, great to see you break lurk! 😊

8:47 PM

@KorvinStarmast Still at home and doing awesome. They've shucked off the malaise of 2020 and are crazy-busy going every-which way.

@KorvinStarmast SSD's old blog had a really good rundown of a lot of the legal stuff (that was publicly discussed/known) from back in the 90s. It looks to be down now, but perhaps they've reestablished somewhere else?

@BESW I've heard "bigature." It was in a documentary about practical film techniques, but I have no idea whether it's an industry term or if it was just the in-house lingo. Might be worth a Q on M&TV, though?

@KorvinStarmast It'd be hard to do with where other things in life have gotten busy. But I thank you for the implied compliment =)

Hot RPG Questions

9:28 PM

5

Q: When is it better to choose Hideous Laughter over Cause Fear as a Great Old One TomeLock?

I'm trying to decide between Cause Fear and Hideous Laughter for my Dwarven Great Old One TomeLock who has just reached second level. I've chosen a non-melee build for my character, (trying to avoid Eldritch Blast spam), and I've take Eldritch Mind and Mask of Many Faces as my second level invoca...

dnd-5e spells optimization warlock

Hot RPG Questions

9:53 PM

4

Q: Does Effective Level Stack with Actual Level?

I am building a level 7 Exemplar Brawler/level 2 Dirge Bard. Exemplar gets Inspiring Prowess, which is effectively inspire courage with its effective Bard level equal to Brawler level -2. Since I have actual levels of bard, do these stack for an effective bard level of 7 for this ability, or is i...

pathfinder-1e multi-classing character-levels

Hot RPG Questions

10:42 PM

3

Q: Can you benefit from the Fencing Grace feat while wielding a buckler?

Fencing Grace: When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime ano...

pathfinder-1e feats damage ability-scores shield

@HotRPGQuestions I suspect Grace will refuse to fence you if you've got a buckler, as that's clearly not standard fencing equipment.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I don't think a Duke who sells illegal goods would necessarily discriminate against someone who was wielding someone known to buckle.

Amr Ammourazz wrote a twitter thread of the things about "Sensitivity Reading and Cultural Consulting" that they can't explain on twitter.

Mother Lands RPG wrote a twitter thread of "more dev team announcements"

Kickstarter: Suburban Consumption of the Monstrous by Pelgrane Press. An anthology of horror live action RPGs set in suburbia with themes of food and consumption, written by Banana Chan and Sadia Bies.

1 hour later…

11:55 PM

DMs Guild and Drive Thru RPG have different freebies every day from now until Halloween

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Oct '2119

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