TRPG General Chat

Thomas Markov

12:22 AM

And I think that’s the first time I’ve used a quote from The Office in an answer here.

Akixkisu

12:34 AM

@ThomasMarkov How many burgers can one gather from a human without killing the animal? Emergency rations are important.

Just in case, if corpses are objects and creatures.

Hot RPG Questions

3:14 AM

1

Q: Would a sun sensitivity outfit help with the Shadowbound oracle's curse?

As stated in the title, I'm wondering whether the sun sensitivity outfit listed here https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/containers-bags-boxes-more/#TOC-Outfit-Sun-Sensitivity could help an oracle with the Shadowbound oracle's curse, since it essentially gives the oracle light b...

Hot RPG Questions

3:39 AM

6

Q: How does Breath Weapon work while blind?

Blind characters have disadvantage on attack rolls, however breath weapon does not require the attacker to roll dice. Should I assume, then, that there is not penalty for attacking with a breath weapon while my character is blind?

dnd-5e conditions blind

Hot RPG Questions

4:03 AM

4

Q: List of abilities that let you squeeze through a 1-inch gap

According to rumors, the Fairy race will no longer have the ability to squeeze through gaps that are 1-inch across, so basically I’m looking for other ways to achieve the same effect through items, class abilities, etc.

dnd-5e class-feature racial-traits

AncientSwordRage

7:38 AM

@HotRPGQuestions @ThomasMarkov I appreciate your reservation about adding extra things to that list

Hot RPG Questions

8:34 AM

6

Q: Can I use Fabricate and a horse to create burger patties and/or sausages?

I know it’s odd, but it came up recently as my character, using the cloak of useful items, created a horse. The party has no use for it, and we are trapped in a mountainous area where horses cannot travel without difficulty. I have the spell fabricate so I’m just trying to see if we can eat dinn...

dnd-5e spells food-and-drink

AncientSwordRage

9:42 AM

@HotRPGQuestions how many burgers can you make?

> You convert raw materials into products (plural)

> You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (singular)

So it sounds like you could make a (at most) 10ft cube of horse mince, but not individual burgers

I don't know if the plural in the first quote is just to let you know you could make multiple different products from different castings

Hot RPG Questions

4

Q: Conjure Fey Clarification?

The spell conjure fey says "You summon a fey creature of challenge rating 6 or lower, or a fey spirit that takes the form of a beast of challenge rating 6 or lower." I would like to know what the player actually gets to choose. Does the player choose the CR, whether it is a beast or a fey, and th...

dnd-5e spells summoning

KorvinStarmast

12:30 PM

@doppelgreener I like the frog-on-the-shoulder look

NautArch

@TheDragonOfFlame Would you mind adding that detail to the question?

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov there's nothing wrong with that answer; getting dev commentary is useful (though Mearls has been all over the map since the game came out) and requiring everything to be subjected to RAW hermeneutics is not where RPGSE's value proposition shines

@ThomasMarkov There ya go, use your votes for good! 😁

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I don't think it's about RAW, it's that Mearls' tweets are just about as useful as any individual's. THey're just how 'he'd do things' and he's not consistent.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius "The game itself?" Are we getting Hegelian here?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast That answer really is just a copypasta of the tweet. THere's no further discussion, commentary, or analysis.

KorvinStarmast

12:35 PM

@NautArch RAI wasn't always shunned at RPGSE the way it is now. When I got here there was plenty of room for answers that delved into RAI and drawing on commentary (of varying value) of the devs

NautArch

Tweets can be part of an answer, but to be the whole answer isn't good.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch which, if you feel could use more input, perhaps deserves a down vote.

NautArch

It's basically a link-only answer.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast There is something wrong with the answer. It provides exactly zero insight into why such a ruling should be made, giving no help for actualy parsing the relevant rules.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Exactly, had they done explained it themselves and used mearls' as support, it'd be better.

KorvinStarmast

12:36 PM

@ThomasMarkov hence a down vote and a comment are warranted, are they not?

NautArch

But , as it stands, it's just a bad answer.

-1 I know you mention this in your answer, but I find that an answer based only on a developer is a poor answer in general. And when the developer isn't even the one able to make official rulings even less so. So I find this answer does not really help clarify the issue at all. If you actually reference the text and provide some evidence there for this viewpoint then it would be much improved. — Rubiksmoose ♦ Sep 26 '18 at 18:07

It's been advised, they haven't.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch yeah, I just realized that.

So I'll revise my comment: 'there is nothing wrong' is not correct. Amplification beyond the tweet would make it a better answer, and it could use improvement.

NautArch

There's also the general issue that designers tweeting is really just how'd they rule it, not necessarily what they wrote. And those contradict a lot, which makes it not as meaningful to use.

@KorvinStarmast I think anything beyond the tweet would it make good. it's a link-only answer.

It's not that it's not as good or needs a bit more - it's just bad.

KorvinStarmast

@Akixkisu Met a DM like that and I Stopped playing his game. Hmm, that's about 4 years ago.

Thomas Markov

Our help article on How to write a good answer says, "Links to external resources are encouraged, but please add context around the link so your fellow users will have some idea what it is and why it’s there." As it stands, this answer is essentially a "link only" answer. The tweet provided offers zero context and reasoning for this ruling. Providing some more analysis of the rules, to explain why Mearls makes the ruling he does, would significantly improve this answer, and would probably earn you a bounty from me. — Thomas Markov 41 secs ago

hmmmmmm I might start a bounty program for tweet only answers on meta.

KorvinStarmast

12:45 PM

@Akixkisu this. And the GiTP forums are full of people who want to add clunky 3.5eish clutter to 5e since they had a modicum, or even a lot, of 3.5e mastery.

@AncientSwordRage There is a chef feat, IIRC, in Tasha's. :) Make burgers out of the ground horse meat! (Didn't McDonald's do that some years ago? Or was that kangaroo meat?)

I guess you are seeing my exasperation with complaining about a five year old answer; if I am to advocate for better stacking, the solution is to write a better answer, or, to post a bounty for the better answer that isn't the accepted one.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast What do you think about a bounty incentive program for accepted tweet-only answers?

I have now included a reference to the United States Code of Federal Regulations in my horse meat answer.

Glazius

@KorvinStarmast Yes, but... pointing the other way? D&D the cultural phenomenon has a broader reach than the actual game, and people have at least as much experience with the cultural phenomenon as they do with the game. One of the stated goals during the playtest and in the surveys was to make D&D "feel like D&D again" -- make it evoke the cultural phenomenon.

This certainly seems to have been the result they produced!

But... one of the things that makes D&D such a cultural phenomenon is its potential for confusion and disaster in the hands of well-intentioned, and less well-intentioned, people.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius Having been around for the initial explosion, I see what you mean about cultural phenomenon. A lot of cheesy Swords and Sorcery movies, Ahnuld's first Conan movie, were all given at least a little bit of a boost by D&D. It didn't happen "at the speeed of meme' but I will say that a lot of us who played D&D looked at Star Wars as a "D&D in space" kind of thing when it came o u

Glazius

I don't actually believe D&D 5E was deliberately engineered in order to create confusion and disaster to maximize engagement.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius Uh, that's true with pretty much any human endeavor ...

Glazius

1:00 PM

But I do believe that it was created by people who, to some extent, valued that confusion and disaster.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch whoa, you answered a question

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius What? Valued confusion and disaster? They lowered the barriers to entry, not sure how that equates to valuing confusion and disaster.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, i'm feeling cheeky.

I may answer Dragon of Flame's as well (once they update their question with the info they gave in here that it's a perception from DM, not a complaint from players.)

Glazius

Well, an excellent example of this is the initial sample of play they provide in the book, where the DM reads some boxed text, somebody makes a low die roll and nothing happens, and that's the end of the initial sample of play.

On one hand, well, D&D really needs no introduction at this point, right? A bunch of people sitting down pretending to have a fantasy adventure, that's D&D, everybody knows that.

On the other hand I've been in several aborted campaigns where we mostly made low die rolls and nothing happened.

KorvinStarmast

What's weird is that the first two editions had example of play published in the books. IT's weird that 5e didn't think to add that. it was very helpful to us when starting off to get at least an idea of how the flow of the game was expected to go ...

Glazius

1:07 PM

Yeah, for second edition it was some people finding a loose brick in the sewer ceiling and somebody getting grabbed by a wererat, right?

And I think third edition was a thief sneaking over a door and getting hit by a ghoul?

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius I'll make no comment on roll playing, but I'll wonder of the "how to play" bit was overlooked (the three steps in chapter 1 of the basic rules. ) the longer I examine this edition, the more I dislike the bloated prose in the rule books. It takes forever for them to get to the point, it seems ...

@Glazius The ghoul reaching out and grabbing the character was also, IIRC, in the AD&D 1e example of play (in the DMG), and if we go back to the original ...

"REF: This will require; four turns. (He checks for monsters wandering in, and
on the forth try one is indicated. However, as there was a listener at the
door it is approaching, he also checks to see if it is detected, allowing a
good probability that it will be heard.) As you complete your loading
the dwarf at the west door detects heavy footsteps approaching. The
boots, by the way, are Elven-type . . .
CAL: EXCELLENT! Our Magic-User will cast a HOLD PORTAL on the west
door while the elf opens the secret one. We will then all beat a hasty retreat

Glazius

@KorvinStarmast Sorry, I should clarify. Where our interaction with the rules was we made low die rolls and nothing happened. The GM had this, like, palace intrigue scenario planned out, with several on-ramps to it, and we talked our way up some of them, but there came this moment of engagement where somebody rolled a 4 at a crucial moment and it shut down. Or it was an opposed roll and they rolled an 18 in the open.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov I'm not sure humanely is a requirement?

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast that's probably a closer use of the spell to my reading

Thomas Markov

@NautArch My lawyers required that I include that stipulation.

2

KorvinStarmast

1:12 PM

@Glazius And this is where if a new DM hasn't ever been exposed to something like "the three clue rule" or "are you prepared to proceed in the case of failure" things like that crop up. Yeah, the DMG could use some treatment of that. New DMs are badly under served in 5e, IMO.

Glazius

"Nothing happens when you roll low" is fine in a tactical combat scenario where the cost of nothing happening is already spelled out - the opposition gets a go at you before your turn comes up again.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius Man, Into the Unknown had so much good "how to be a DM" advice when Basic was first issues, why wasn't that best practice captured in 5e?

Glazius

But as you move further and further out the "cost of nothing happening" gets more nebulous, and a lot of people will just slam it to "all" or "nothing".

NautArch

@Glazius Yeah, there needs to be more in between - and be willing to change your world in response to the players.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius yeah, though I 've noticed that a lot of DMs have to be shown the social interaction table in the DMG that gives a little help for getting off of top dead center ... maybe that should have been in the Basic Rules as well.

@Glazius Which is informed by cultural inputs like computer games and the all or nothing attitude of digital thinking.

@Glazius doppel and I had a discussion a while back on why the {optional} chase rules in the DMG might have been better placed in the PHG or the Basic Rules

Glazius

1:19 PM

@KorvinStarmast I don't think so. I think it's because the most complicated and involved rules in D&D are the combat rules, because you could die so it's important you know that's fair.

So when you're going off into unknown territory, you base what happens on the rules you know best.

Where nothing happens when you roll low.

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius Which takes us to degrees of success, and FWIW I think I am right about the digital thinking - nothing happens when you roll low is an example of that. By digital thinking I refer to "it's either on or it's off" which is how binary works ...

@Glazius yeah, the stakes are indeed higher, good observation. "Bang bang, I got you, no, you didn't" won't cut it.

@Glazius for my money, the most complicated rules are the rules on spells and magic. They take up the largest single part of the PHB. And they keep adding spells. I wish there would be a liposuction on spells; there are too many, IMO. Though in support of your observation, they have to fit into the five element action economy of combat in a large percentage of cases

Glazius

The spells section is big but each spell is kind of its own individually wrapped rules packet, isn't it? The largest coherent rules section is the combat section.

And everybody uses the combat section, even human fighters!

KorvinStarmast

@Glazius Hmm, I see what you are getting at, yes Chapter 9 is the largest mechanical section since it has to deal with the complexity of combat.

The rules on spell casting that are prelude to all of the spells have to conform to chapter nine, or fit with it, so it's a supplement to Ch 9 to a certain extent.

Alexandrian had a decent article on how the exploration pillar can be better achieved - it is given mention in the PHB and DMG but the DMG likewise underserves that pillar in terms of how to give a new DM some directions, and some "how to" bits.

Medix2

1:42 PM

@NautArch Just gonna say, I found manacles in other adventures with different effects

NautArch

2:00 PM

@Medix2 Why did you not put them in your answer??

Current answer seems to say something different.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch As we say in Food Safety management, if you didn't document it, it didn't happen.

Medix2

I don't think a particular set found in an adventure can be generalized, especially when they contrast

I even found ones that change the escape DCs

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Yeah, Chultan manacles are just built different.

(they probably arent)

Medix2

I'm sort of working on a new answer just saying that the manacles across the books are incompatible

Thomas Markov

If the question is viewed through the lens of "how should I implement manacles in my game", published examples, even if they contradictory, are tremendously helpful.

NautArch

2:07 PM

And that very much is my question.

But I may now have the awkward situation of a bounty up, but an answer that might get it that isn't the one that I'm telling I'm going to give it to

Or I'll just bounty again and give out another one

Thomas Markov

@NautArch do this

NautArch

Aye aye

NautArch

2:25 PM

I think I realized something about the vampire and prison cell question.

BESW

Heh. 3.5 had at least four different manacles without looking at adventure-specific material. (Source: there was a PrC that let you wield manacles as a flail and also handcuff people as part of a full attack action, so you know I cheesed that to within an inch of its life.)

NautArch

How did the vampire get into the building? Isn't the building what would be considered the residents, not just a room?

Thomas Markov

@NautArch mmmmm post that.

"If the Vampire has already entered the prison, it's too late"

NautArch

Yeah, I'll work on that later today. Just had that realization.

BESW

Buildings can have public and private spaces.

An apartment building lobby or hallway, vs entering an apartment.

Vampire rents an Airbnb, then doesn’t leave.

this sort of scenario is super common to play with in vampire media.

Rescinded invitations.

Homes with multiple occupants, do they all equally speak for the whole house?

It’s all about what the threshold rule represents in that particular fiction.

Thomas Markov

2:37 PM

@BESW In 5e it seems any resident may speak for the entire dwelling.

AncientSwordRage

I have plans for a Vampire character in a book and I know need to figure this out @BESW 😅

Akixkisu

@ThomasMarkov I think that is interpretation. I also adjudicate based on public and home spaces.

NautArch

Yeah, ultimately this is a question about narration. OP is wanting to tell a story here, they're just not sure how they can do it mechanically.

Thomas Markov

> Forbiddance. The vampire can’t enter a residence without an invitation from one of the occupants.

BESW

It’s been my experience that D&D doesn’t really consider the question at all. Vampires have to be invited because that’s what the popular media says, end of story. Neither diegetic justification nor thematic significance are implied in the texts.

Akixkisu

2:42 PM

@ThomasMarkov Which tells you exactly nothing about what counts as a residence.

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu or an occupant

But whatever a residence is, an occupant can speak for the whole residence.

NautArch

And which is why it's important to focus on the narrative.

BESW

@AncientSwordRage [adjusts vampire nerd glasses] The simple answer about any bit of vampire lore is, ignore it entirely unless/until it supports one of your story’s goals.

Akixkisu

If the prisoner has access to the cell and the labour yard, then I'd say they have say for both of these areas as they live there if that makes the story interesting.

BESW

By only including lore that’s in support of your goals, you have a clear path to figuring out what that lore is actually gonna manifest as in your story.

Akixkisu

2:45 PM

That can be a great hook.

You are the prisoner who escapes as a result of inviting the vampire in - then the narrative goes wherever it goes.

BESW

And it’s not like vampires have, you know, consistency across media. They’re one of the most nebulous and shifting of the major movie monsters.

Personally I find the threshold rule to be quite dull in almost every instance, because unless the specific details of the rule are at the core of the drama, the rule tends to actually suck drama out of the proceedings.

Either somebody doesn’t know the rule and the vamp gets in trivially easy, or it’s a temporary lull until the writer thinks they’ve delayed long enough to pull out whatever trick they’re gonna use to break the “neener neener you can’t get me” standoff before the story dies in its tracks.

The best use of the threshold rule in a story that’s not about the threshold rule, is the Tremors Principle: rocks are for character development.

Akixkisu

I like the narrative limitation of travell restricted to day time, it gives you a lot of room to play around with time.

Glazius

Well, the vampire is an analogy for the corruptive influence of power. It can corrupt your residence after taking advantage of your power to invite people into it. A prisoner has no power to invite regular people into a prison, therefore their invitation cannot admit a vampire.

Akixkisu

If you want to have to narrative that places a lot of importance to always find a safe place first and to limit movement so that is is from one dwelling to the next where your players need to gather information - then that can be immersive (or a chore if your expectations don't match).

BESW

That’s one kind of vampire, yeah.

I’d be wary of any general truisms.

NautArch

2:59 PM

And which is why it's important to focus on the narrative.

BESW

Dracula’s pretty specifically dealing with the rather nasty theme of colonial/industrial rationality triumphing over rural/superstitious immigrants.

Lord Ruthven and Carmilla, the dangers of aristocratic decadence.

Miriam Blaylock’s tragedy is addiction, though admittedly the studio—mandated epilogue muddies that reading.

Akixkisu

Since we are talking about vampires, the new mtg set makes a great drafting experience.

It has a day/night mechanic based on th woofs transforming, and the vampires usually having a trigger that resolves on the change of day to night.

(when the vampire has the mechanic, most vampires unfortunately don't have it)

BESW

So, @AncientSwordRage, I’d think about whether your story’s themes/structure/pacing/aesthetic are served by a threshold rule, and if so—why, and what’s the focus? Is it about “inviting evil in,” or the banal cruelty of “being nice” to monsters, or the power of the spoken word, or the sanctity of privacy, or…?

I rather liked how Dissipation and Despair used the threshold rule once or twice as a pacing tool to justify having a chat with the vampire instead of a fight, but when the danger was really great the vampire’s backstory as a parish priest meant he felt pre-invited to all the important places they’d want to keep him out of.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov If you get permission from two, it fails XD

BESW

In other words, the threshold rule served to emphasize that evil is already invited in—systemically.

Which was reflected and reinforced in other parts of the story, so it didn’t feel like a cop-out or a flimsy justification, but rather a confirmation and elevation of the established theme.

AncientSwordRage

3:14 PM

@BESW might find that I'm in too much of a worldbuilding mode when I (eventually?) Start writing, but I am going hard-magic system on vampires, so I need an explanation whether I choose to ignore or incorporate IRL vampire lore.

@Akixkisu I'll have to load up MTG Arena at some point

BESW

If you’re starting with the world rather than a story, then identifying the themes underpinning the world would be a good place to start.

If “magic has hard rules” is a truth of the world, that implies it’s a world where rules matter, a lot, and the threshold rule would be a way to explore that significance: a physical expression of social rules.

3

AncientSwordRage

@BESW yes, that's an excellent point

KorvinStarmast

4:07 PM

@Glazius I like this take on it.

@NautArch @ThomasMarkov Gut check. Can a feebleminded ancient black dragon still make legendary saves on the following day? (Feeblemind works for 30 days) 5e thought. We have this nemesis who is an ancient black dragon. He's also a spell casting dragon, spells up to level 7 (we know for sure that he once cast simulacrum, the melted ice was the giveaway). If we are able to burn through his legendary resistances, survive his various attacks and breath, and then I cast Feeblemind (bard, 15)

... and we get luck and he does not save ... DC 18 .. what is his status on legendary saves the next morning?

Will check main site, but I think we may run into this at table.

Thomas Markov

Not seeing anything in feeblemind that would interfere with Legendary Resistance.

KorvinStarmast

4:33 PM

@ThomasMarkov OK, if they are alert enough to use basic fighting like claw, bite, legendary resistance is organic/natural enough to be applicable. (Survival instinct, I guess). Make sense? We are discussing this among players and intend to discuss with DM, and he likes to hear narratively plausible reasoning in terms of 'in world coherence' ...

Thomas Markov

The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Yes, it can, and my whole job as the bard, if we pull this off, is to convince this ancient black dragon that based on the deal we had previously made he's my friend and I'm his friend, and friends don't let friends drive drunk, etc and so on (yes, we cut a deal: I've got an art object from his hoard as proof of that! He gave it to me in trade for a magic ax that I'd liberated from one of his (now deceased) minions)

Thomas Markov

The dragon's propensity for self defense shouldnt be particularly impaired, perhaps making some less than ideal tactical decisions.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good plan.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov I have a devious plan in mind that requires us to successfully cast feeblemind an ancient black dragon: what could possibly go wrong? 🤣😂 Good Plan? Sure, for selected values of the terms "Good" and "Plan"

@ThomasMarkov There is, as far as I can tell, a single chink in the armor of my plan beyond getting the spell to land and not saved against: Feeblemind
The target takes 4d6 psychic damage and must make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them. At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell.

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: Do circle of the land druid spells stack with your normal druid spells, or do you have to switch out?

In DnD 5e, regarding the Circle of the Land specific spells from the Druid class. I have already prepared spells from the Druid class spell list, but not a Circle. The Circle spells that are listed, do I get them on top of the spells I already have, or do I have to switch some out? I know the cir...

dnd-5e spells class-feature druid spell-slots

KorvinStarmast

4:45 PM

@ThomasMarkov I have to figure out how to communicate with him, which I think requires some form of telepathy. I then have 29 days to get done what I need an ancient dragon for (which is to wipe out a pretty large colony of yuan ti with lots of High CR yuan ti leadership who are engaging in human sacrifice with lizardfolk and humans as their usual prey)

AncientSwordRage

Except insight is wisdom based

KorvinStarmast

5:25 PM

@AncientSwordRage Yep, and that's another loophole in terms of the ancient black discerning my intent. Lucky for me, I am seriously dedicated to this goal, so most of my thoughts are going to be truthful.

And the lizardfolk in question are all blood related to the colony of lizardfolk this dragon established in a safe haven - they now worship him as something like a demigod. 😊 Which puts it all on the footing of how I am helping him help his followers ...

G. Moylan

I'm fairly certain "[can't] understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way" is meant to be universally exclusive of all communication, including telepathy

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan I also have the glibness spell, I am not certain, but our DM may feel the same way that you do. Need to discuss that with him.

@G.Moylan I think that GOO telepathy is a special case, checking ...

@G.Moylan aaah crap, GOO telepathy requires ability to understand at least one language

Hmm, this may not work, which is fine.

G. Moylan

sounds like Glibness might be the way to go

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan that may also require being able to understand a language, but I have another way to peel this onion. I polymorph it into a snail, our sorcerer teleports us to the yuanti settlement, I drop concentration, and let the chips fall where they may. Fight's On. I can even alter self to change into a yuan ti and make an initial attack and then our sorc teleports us outta there (helm) once the fight starts. 😁

problem is, if it gets into a 'fight or flight' situation it may fly away rather than fight. Need to be prepared for that serial ...

@G.Moylan I might be better off with glibness and talking him into it, I guess. Or trying to.

V2Blast

5:41 PM

@AncientSwordRage I don't think linking to D&D Beyond is necessarily "preferred" over any other site for references to the basic rules/SRD. (...besides the fact that the SRD is not technically a set of official rules, but rather a document listing what D&D 5e material can be republished/redistributed by others without some kind of separate agreement with/special permission from WotC.)

Thomas Markov

needs two more close votes

needs one more close vote (different from above lol)

KorvinStarmast

6:05 PM

@ThomasMarkov Not designer intent question, but IMO opinion based along the lines of "I disagree with what my DM did, what do you think" style of question.

V2Blast

@NautArch Note: this isn't what is usually meant by "link-only answer", at least in SE parlance... A link-only answer is typically considered to be a link and no other info (i.e. it doesn't even include a quote/summary of the relevant information from the linked page, just a statement that the linked page contains the link. This FAQ on the subject from MSE (and several other Q&As that were closed as a duplicate of it) seems to use it in that way.

That said, it's still not a great answer, in my opinion - I just wouldn't call it a "link-only answer".

A link-only answer in this vein would just be an answer that says something like "Mike Mearls answered this question here: [link]" or "The Sage Advice Compendium already answers this question: [link]" without actually stating/quoting what the linked page states - which would make the answer useless/confusing if the content on the linked page is moved, deleted, or changed.

AncientSwordRage

@V2Blast I forget if changing the links happened before it after the other changes, but I definitely didn't recognize that 'srd' site but I do recognize dndbeyond

V2Blast

@AncientSwordRage d20SRD is just one of many sites that rehosts the official SRD content (for both 3.5e and 5e, I believe)

AncientSwordRage

@V2Blast crikey, it is the same one for 3.5. thank you for jogging my memory

NautArch

That seems reasonable. Its just a very small step above a link only

AncientSwordRage

6:17 PM

neither meta mentions swapping one official source for another, so I'll try to be less forthright next time I find an old post that is need of an edit

doppelgreener

@BESW i've honestly yet to see a vampire consider the "set fire to their home so there isn't one anymore" option but i'd like to see that one day

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage that's why I rarely if ever DDB link; I have generally preferred to link to basic rules, and srd, on the dndwizards site.

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast I think I did pick the basics, but hosted on DDB

Thomas Markov

re: this question, dndbeyond has a pretty thorough tagging system for spells.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov yeah but "does X exist" don't tend to make for good questions

Thomas Markov

6:32 PM

@AncientSwordRage Well yeah, thats why I mentioned it in chat lol

If they care to stop by, there it is

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov excellent

I misread your message as a suggestion for a potential answer on main

TheDragonOfFlame

6:49 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I was aware of the GURPS ruling, I was looking for IRL precedent. Thanks!

Thomas Markov

7:40 PM

My answer to the fabricate horse burgers question was my 1000th post on the site.

MikeQ

One time our party was riding a merchant's barge, so my cleric used fabricate to turn some of the surplus wheat into pasta. She had no ranks in Craft (Pasta) so the result was a single noodle. 80 cubic feet of noodle, to be precise. This had no benefit whatsoever but so far it's my most notable achievement of the campaign.

Thomas Markov

7:54 PM

(not counting my 63 deleted posts)

Akixkisu

8:07 PM

@V2Blast we prefer sites that are less likely to have link rot, so changing it to dbd is probably not a downgrade.

Thomas Markov

8:18 PM

But if DDB does shut down, we're in for one hell of an editing project.

Best case scenario, WotC buys DDB from Fandom.

doppelgreener

@ThomasMarkov that's relying on a very optimistic view of how WotC handles its IT projects, lol

Akixkisu

@ThomasMarkov That sounds like 0% odds.

V2Blast

@Akixkisu I agree that it's not a downgrade - I just mean that it's not quite necessary to do unless making some other improvement already, and that it's not necessarily an inherent improvement to do so. Sometimes it may be warranted, sometimes it may not.

@MikeQ That's one big noodle...

Helwar

wait what? I just chimed in, is DDB closing?

Akixkisu

@Helwar yup in one month.

No. it isn't.

doppelgreener

8:28 PM

@ThomasMarkov you mean you weren't citing the books!?

Akixkisu

We are talking about what reference document to link in specific circumstances.

Helwar

oh

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener I try to do that too. Sometimes I forget.

doppelgreener

[shock]

(i'm not actually shocked lol)

Thomas Markov

Im way better at mentioning the sourcebook than I am at including DDB links lol

Akixkisu

8:30 PM

@V2Blast It is a link-only-answer by extended definition. Any kind of content that users don't contextualise is iffy. We should at least use a banner for that kind of content.

Without contextualisation it isn't even an answer.

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu If it were appropriate, I would star this message.

Akixkisu

It is like throwing a source document at someone.

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu I mean, throwing a source document is more useful than that answer tbh.

Akixkisu

Sure that source document can be helpful, but if your paper is just a list of source documents, then that is a great base for a paper - but nothing that I can judge.

Thomas Markov

To me, "tweet only" rulings as answers are worse than "try this" answers.

doppelgreener

8:39 PM

i'm not sure they deserve that level of dislike

like, is there really that much difference between it plausibly being written by crawford in the book you're reading vs him tweeting it? or mearls?

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener Some of them do. Sometimes the tweet does a little bit of the work in explaining the reasoning behind the ruling.

But sometimes the tweet is making a ruling that has numerous rules interactions baked into it that it does not explain.

V2Blast

8:55 PM

@Akixkisu It's a bad answer, but not a link-only answer (in the typical usage of the term). The issues caused by link-only answers are different from those caused by not providing sufficient context/explanation.

Akixkisu

@V2Blast Oh yeah, the emphasis on extended.

doppelgreener

The problem with a link-only answer is that it doesn't contain any useful content, it only points to the useful content where it lies elsewhere behind a link. When that URL 404s, the useful content vanishes and the answer is worthless. That's against the principles of building a resource base for future reference. You make an answer not a link-only answer by quoting the useful content in the answer itself.

Assuming we're talking about this answer here which I got from this comment, that answer quoted the tweet from revision 1 so it was never link-only.

Akixkisu

I conceptualise non-answer as an extended part of that - the answer is useless without ccontextual knowledge. If I just requote a ruling that I made in another situation, then I hope that people will flag it as not an answer.

I have to contextualise any ruling like that.

doppelgreener

That's not a link-only answer problem though.

Akixkisu

yes, hence extended

doppelgreener

9:06 PM

Like, "link-only answer" is quite literal

Akixkisu

yup

doppelgreener

if the answer requires context that isn't provided to properly understand it, that sounds like an incomplete or poorly explained answer

Akixkisu

and we should put a banner on that

I think that loops it back

NautArch

Is this link only?

doppelgreener

@NautArch Yes

The solution that answer provides is behind a link. Once that google doc vanishes, the answer has no solution at all.

NautArch

9:12 PM

Yeah :( Stackizen should know better

Is that flagable or just downvote/delete?

doppelgreener

All three, i think

> Answers that do not fundamentally answer the question may be removed. This includes answers that are:
• barely more than a link to an external site
— https://rpg.stackexchange.com/help/deleted-answers

that suggests downvote and delete, and probably flag as not an answer

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@ThomasMarkov hah, I miss read this as 100th and went off looking for mine ... Instead here's my 100th

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