TRPG General Chat

AncientSwordRage

12:01 AM

@BESW that's what I thought

They have a longer play through video as well

BESW

I like the guided prompts for free RP.

AncientSwordRage

It feels very elegant

BESW

And I'm a big fan of artifact-building as a record of play.

(Cozy Town and Pilgrims of the Flying Temple, for example)

AncientSwordRage

This is the first time I've come across it

Not sure how I thought it could be hacked to make a crystal maze game

BESW

I can sorta see it if I squint sideways, hrm. Like, differentiate leaders to backstage roles and have obstacles to make a good show that you can try to solve in your own department (eg, props don't have the time to make the puzzle properly but will do their best) or pass it off to another department ("Hey, host, you have to explain the puzzle carefully so they don't get stuck on the part we couldn't make work right").

Hot RPG Questions

12:18 AM

5

Q: What's the best way to resolve a paradox created when a mage shapeshifted into a larger creature enters an antimagic field, but its true form doesn't?

This is based on a situation that's happening in my current campaign, though the example below is simplified to remove unnecessary context. The shapechange spell (Player's Handbook, page 274) only limits the form that its user can change into by Challenge Rating, rather than size. In the followin...

TheDragonOfFlame

12:28 AM

Do any of you lovely people know of any articles or videos on how to write an adventure module, for other people to play / GM?

Ben

o/

@TheDragonOfFlame can't say I do, but I would definitely agree that would have been useful for me lol

BESW

@TheDragonOfFlame Any particular system?

TheDragonOfFlame

@BESW I was thinking d&d-5e, simply because of the largest market of interest.

I’m planning on trying to sell stuff on drivethrough rpg / dmsguild… already made 25 dollars off a couple of subclasses I put up a year back..

BESW

May 2 at 10:55, by BESW

@Axoren You might find some of the TTRPG Resource Jam entries helpful, though the chance that any of them are going to specifically answer your needs is slim.

TheDragonOfFlame

Ooh thanks

BESW

12:38 AM

Oct 30 '19 at 1:06, by BESW

R🐘 search.

TheDragonOfFlame

1:03 AM

Thanks a lot

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that's deeper than anything else I was thinking of

Although I am still thinking contestant focused

Peter Cooper Jr.

2:20 AM

@TheDragonOfFlame The Angry GM has a couple articles on his thoughts about challenges he found organizing publishing a module, and how mass-market publishers don't use the best approach. Not everybody likes him or his style (it's not my favorite either), but I think he's got some good thoughts in there if you dig through it, and maybe there's something you can get from it. Part 1; Part 2

BESW

3:34 AM

CW for AngryGM. A gimmick of profanity and fake anger is one thing, and I haven't read those particular articles linked above, but we removed the site from our feed last year after a pattern of belittling and insulting attacks punching down on various groups culminated in defending outright racist rhetoric.

Hot RPG Questions

4:51 AM

3

Q: Does Overwhelming Energy work against resist all?

Overwhelming Energy: [...] the spell ignores an amount of the target’s resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage equal to your level A Wraith for example has resist all 5. If I am on level 10 and cast Fireball (rolling 35) after activating Overwhelming Energy, how much damage...

spells feats pathfinder-2e damage-resistance

Axoren

@BESW Hey, that's me!

V2Blast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Ye, I've played in a Lancer campaign before (I've played through Act 1 of the No Room for a Wallflower official campaign - Act 1 is the only one out so far)

kviiri

5:43 AM

Remember when we talked about ways to present numeric bounds and their relative clarities? I played All Bridges Burning yesterday and it uses, in its rules, four different kinds of bounds: inclusive and exclusive lower bounds, as well as inclusive and exclusive upper bounds.

Within a single paragraph.

This was in a section outlining the victory conditions for each of the three factions in this asymmetric wargame. Each has two victory conditions, both of which must be fulfilled. For each faction, one of these conditions is that some score must exceed a particular fixed or dynamic value (so exclusive lower bound) and each faction's other victory condition uses a different kind of bound.

For the Reds, "Russian Vassalage plus Polarization is five or less" (inclusive upper bound). For the Senate, "German Vassalage plus Polarization is less than six" (exclusive upper bound). For Moderates, "Resolved Issues plus Networks plus one is equal to or greater than Polarization" (inclusive lower bound)

To add insult to injury, Senate and Reds are both trying to get their respective vassalage + Polarization under six, but this just had to be worded differently? And for Moderates, while I prefer inclusive bounds in general, if they want to default to exclusive bounds, couldn't they just remove "plus one" from the scoring metric and switch to exclusive...

Well okay, I guess that means the Moderates can always win by zeroing Polarization, still I think they could do with some touch of editing.

Axoren

@kviiri Notation, especially notation used commonly elsewhere, is a good fix for that. That way, even if the language makes it difficult to see it's the same thing, they would at least be easily discernable bounds.
[inclusive, inclusive]
[inclusive, exclusive)
(exclusive, inclusive]
(exclusive, exclusive)
Anything that would be in a bound, would use one of the above. Saves on letters, gets the point across simply. Use something like this for one-sided bounds:
(exclusive, •)
[inclusive, •)
(•, inclusive]

kviiri

5:58 AM

@Axoren I mean, why not just use the usual mathematical operators people are familiar with from comprehensive school?

Axoren

A lot of the focus on rulebooks is in using language terms to describe mathematical relationships, but it's better to just be explicitly mathy.

@kviiri Were [) and (] not the notations you were familiar with in school?

Because in America, that's how we described intervals

kviiri

@Axoren From University, yes, but I don't recall seeing those in any math class prior.

Axoren

That's insane. As soon as we learned about rationals, we were using that notation. I think it's still considered a pre-algebraic math notation.

kviiri

Huh.

Also even when using intervals, I don't see any point in this, y'know, inconsistency

Axoren

Let me check the open source Prealgebra texts I've got lying around. I might be wrong.

Right, but for an editor to catch these inconsistencies, them being in written language makes it harder to catch

Because there is nothing inherently wrong with those statements. They describe the relationships correctly. However, there is a refactoring problem hidden within it all.

kviiri

6:02 AM

Since all of these bounds are half-open I think the interval notation would be overkill anyway

Axoren

Programmers are taught to catch these kinds of isometries from their comprehension of the Abstract Syntax Tree of code.

Then simply using Inequalities would suffice.

x > 4, x >= 5

kviiri

Please ring GMT games and tell them that x)

Axoren

My consulting fees would be through the roof for such an overhaul, I feel.

"I've got a secret to make your system better. I'll tell it to you, for money."

Also, I get the feeling that people don't like multiple kinds of notations, so having just one for every thing is better, which is why intervals crossed my mind as a better option than intervals and inequalities.

But maybe I'm not giving everyone else in other gaming communities enough credit.

BESW

@Axoren As someone whose pre-college classes went up to pre-calculus and then college math was Remedial Math For Art Students, I'm only aware of that notation because my mother's a massive math nerd.

Axoren

@BESW It looks like it's an early algebra notation, not covered pre-algebra in many cases.

Use of it pre-algebra differs regionally, sometimes replaced with [inclusive, exclusive[

Which is by far an even crazier notation

BESW

6:15 AM

(My mother is the kind of person who has a favorite story about Srinivasa Ramanujan.)

Axoren

He was actually a fairly interesting guy, despite all his mathematical contributions.

As a tangentially-math guy, I have a couple as well.

BESW

Not just "knows stories about him," but "has a favorite story."

Axoren

I have a couple of favorite stories of Ramanujan.

BESW

(It's the one about the taxi cab number not being boring.)

Axoren

That's one of them.

There's one anecdote that I don't know if it's true, but when he was in class, he was given a problem with the expectation that he would work through it. Instead, he gave an exact answer immediately in a complex format. However, that complex format solved the entire class of problems, every kind of problem like it with easily substitutable numbers.

And supposedly, events like this weren't an uncommon occurrence.

Of all the mathematicians, he seemed like one of the ones with the keys to the universe and knew which key unlocked what.

kviiri

6:24 AM

I should maybe add that my educational history is a bit unusual that I skipped most of second-degree academics (gymnasium) in favor of vocational IT classes, though I matriculated in parallel and decided to continue to the University after all to do CS.

So it's not exactly unheard of for me to be relatively clueless about math concepts despite myself having done a long minor in math at the Univ. I picked my math classes pretty much based on what interested me and what I thought would be beneficial at theoretical CS, so lots of graph theory, computability theory, logic, and other such discrete math stuff aplenty.

Plus some stats for ML

Axoren

It doesn't help that everywhere teaches differently by vast notational differences.

Some crackpots disagree that 0 is a natural number and will go out of their way to say things like a natural number or 0

And they will fight on every hill until you concede that there's something so unnatural about 0 that it must be segregated the naturals.

kviiri

I generally use "non-negative integer" and similar, for disambiguation.

BESW

Fun fact: one of the tutors for the young Augusta Ada King (Countess of Lovelace, AKA Ada Lovelace) wrote a whole book about how algebra didn't need negative numbers, and also "a satirical burlesque ridiculing the use of zero."

kviiri

@Axoren I want to add re: All Bridges Burning in particular, it's common for their games to be packaged so there is a long-form reference rulebook but also an ultra-condensed player handout sheet with all the important actions and thresholds, including these victory conditions. There they indeed do use ≤ and ≥ consistently x_x

BESW

His objection to general undefined symbols ("we desire certainty not uncertainty, science not art") likely helped her develop some of the schema necessary to see the Analytical Engine's potential for the manipulation of general symbols.

Axoren

6:46 AM

Imaginary numbers were also considered hogwash at the time, even though they served as virtual solutions to long-standing questions and reliably and consistently functioned like numbers did within algebra.

BESW

Oh yeah, Frend wasn't a fan of those either.

Axoren

The name imaginary used to be derogatory, but it's the one that stuck.

I feel like it would have made sense to call them "lateral" numbers, like 3B1B and many other mathematicians have recommended.

Because they're literally just numbers that exist off of the number line.

kviiri

Lateran Numbers

Axoren

Fantasy Numbers. There's Fighter Numbers, Rogue Numbers, Wizard Numbers, and Cleric Numbers.

And the Bard knows how to get everyone's numbers.

kviiri

Now that we're in math, I intend to have a graduation party (very belated, but still) next month \o/

Axoren

6:55 AM

Congratulations. Degree in CS?

kviiri

Going to honor the respectful tradition of appearing smart before one's friends by explaining one's obscure black magic pro gradu

Yea

Axoren

If you're not interested in academia, definitely get on the industry job hunt train soon. It's starting to get rough out there.

kviiri

Thanks but I've been gainfully employed for 5+ years now

Axoren

Self-improvement? or will it help with your job?

kviiri

A part of the reason why it took so long for me to graduate was that my industry work was much more... well, satisfying x)

Axoren

6:57 AM

I can see that, 100%.

kviiri

@Axoren A bit of this, a bit of that

In large part also sunken costs because I rushed most of my MSc courses before even writing my BSc thesis

Axoren

Solid.

Bandage off sort of thing, then.

kviiri

And then got stuck with my MSc thesis, which ultimately turned out quite nice.

It's about automatically synthetizing asymptotically optimal distributed algorithms for arbitrary graph problems of a certain family (locally checkable labelings).

...and assuming the graph is a toroidic 4-regular grid --- a fairly common thing in the field (the "canonical" distributed computation playground is a 2-regular ring)

I won't go too much into detail because I'm supposed to be working, but basically for a grid of size n x n nodes, each locally checkable labeling requires either O(log* n) or ϴ(n) communication rounds in LOCAL model (Linial) to solve (assuming a solution exists at all). Determining whether a problem is in the former category, "sub-global" so to say, is undecidable

But sub-global problems are recognizable by a method which constructs an optimal algorithm of O(log* n) communication complexity for any given LCL problem, should one exist and given enough time

Hot RPG Questions

7:20 AM

6

Q: Can one use Witch Bolt to prevent spell casting?

Witch bolt seems to have a bad rap. One difference I see between witch bolt and other spells is that it is sustained/continued/ongoing damage. If I spam a spell caster with fire bolts, magic missiles or even fireball, there's still a gap between the time I deal damage, and the next time I deal d...

dnd-5e saving-throw concentration counterspelling

AncientSwordRage

8:38 AM

@kviiri sounds like tricky conditions to make, almost like you need a deal with the devil scenario to win. But then you'd end up with Clopen hooves...

That was a joke just got the mathematicians and anyone who wants to Google 'Clopen'

@kviiri I understood about 30-60% of that depending on how confident I'm feeling

I'm feeling we had some similar concepts in a few physics modules but called them different things

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage Polarization is the key, because everyone needs it low in order to win (how low exactly varies by faction and situation)

But each faction also has another necessary victory condition, so two of the three factions can basically push the game into higher polarization to prevent anyone from winning if things look too dire, until the situation changes.

The Moderates generally can only work towards lower Polarization, being the anti-militant faction

AncientSwordRage

8:54 AM

Sounds like a game my friends might like

kviiri

9:12 AM

It has a certain charm :)

doppelgreener

9:52 AM

o/

kviiri

\o

AncientSwordRage

10:22 AM

\\oo/

Hot RPG Questions

11:53 AM

7

Q: Requirements for creatures to wake others when put to sleep by magic

What is the intelligence requirements to waking up allies? I recently ran a D&D 5e game where wolves attacked the party. They were put to sleep using the sleep spell. When the wolves went to wake up the other wolves, one of the players said they couldn't do that since they have an intelligence of...

dnd-5e ability-scores sleep

doppelgreener

one day i might figure out how to make my reply to the latest meta less enormous, but that day is not today

how are we doing 'all?

y'all even

Akixkisu

To go into detail about the last point, any new revisit should acknowledge that long process time, and I don't know how to go about that. I'm not advocating for an immediate change :)

Doing well, the roses are nice.

One of my cultivars smells really pleaseant, imagine the typical rose but more citrus :)

Watering them in the morning makes for a great start of my day.

doppelgreener

@Akixkisu I think there's something there you're getting at that's valuable. I'm not sure what to put my finger on there to be more exact about it, but it seems like the right direction.

kviiri

I am indulging in the imbibance of tea

Akixkisu

@kviiri good choice :)

doppelgreener

11:59 AM

I've been figuring out recently that getting up early and getting some exercise in is really important for a good start to my own day.

Akixkisu

Sometime during my early twenties I discovered hit exercises, and my cognitive decline slowed down.

They might be the best structure for my day.

They change my mood and structure my energy in so many different ways.

kviiri

Yeah, getting a bit of outdoor activity is very refreshing

Akixkisu

Similar to what the effect of sunlight does.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu that sounds excellent

RevanantBacon

@kviiri What sort of tea?

Akixkisu

12:10 PM

@AncientSwordRage When I sit under that blue sky, breathing in that fragrance, feeling a breeze pass as it brushes over my skin, brim with warm light, it is one of my great joys :)

kviiri

@RevanantBacon Taiwanese Oolong at this time, though I do many kinds

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener I'm thinking about starting a draft of an answer in case there's a revisit (which seems likely at this point)

doppelgreener

@ThomasMarkov (I'm hoping so)

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu stared :)

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener I'm thinking of using the formatting sandbox on meta.se to draft an answer

doppelgreener

12:22 PM

@ThomasMarkov on our late votes meta?

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener For the impending revisit

doppelgreener

aha

yeah that sounds reasonable

Thomas Markov

Ill want your input.

doppelgreener

personally i draft my posts (when i draft them) in google docs, in markdown

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener you can do that?

I mean, will it do the markdown formatting?

doppelgreener

12:24 PM

Google docs don't respond to markdown, but I can still write in markdown. It's an ordinary A4 page with #'s before the headings, but also I apply heading formatting to them to show me what it's going to look like.

For lists and bolding and other stuff I just go with Docs formatting and make sure I remember to convert it across (inevitably missing one or two bits of formatting lol)

or I'll use *'s anyway if I want to. Nobody's my boss, I can make my draft look like a mixed-formatting hellscape if I want to.

Thomas Markov

So NautArch didnt kill us this weekend, and we successfully took down a dragon construct.

doppelgreener

I feel like I need a player/character disambiguation here

Congrats though!!

@ThomasMarkov I may be available to provide it :)

The Oracle

12:47 PM

2

Q: The question listed "actioned X time ago" alignment is broken

The “asked/answered/edited X time ago” messages on the question list are always right-aligned. Today that right alignment seems to be missing, except for when they word wrap to the next line. It definitely doesn't seem deliberately like this; there's no space at all between the tags and attributi...

bug design

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener Im considering an "objections considered" section, to provide reassurance that the concerns about repealing the policy shouldn't be an issue.

doppelgreener

That sounds appropriate

RevanantBacon

1:03 PM

So I'm pretty sure the answer to this question is "No, because you didn't get the spell via the Wizard class, even though it's on the wizard class spell list" and I seem to recall a quote somewhere that basically says that the source of a spell matters, not just what spell lists it's on.

But I can't for the life of me think of where I can find the quote

4

Q: Does the "Cantrip Formulas" optional Wizard feature allow a racial cantrip to be swapped for another?

The Tasha's Cauldron of Everything optional level 3 Wizard feature Cantrip Formulas does the following: You have scribed a set of arcane formulas in your spellbook that you can use to formulate a cantrip in your mind. Whenever you finish a long rest and consult those formulas in your spellbook, ...

dnd-5e cantrips

AncientSwordRage

2:00 PM

@ThomasMarkov you think you didn't die...

RevanantBacon

I love SMBC

Upper_Case

2:37 PM

My coffee hasn't kicked in yet. Is this question stackable, or is it too open ended/opinion based right now?

3

Q: Am I the problematic person here?

I'm currently playing at a table using Discord with some online and IRL friends, once a week. All's good in the world, but recently, another friend asked me to join, and after checking with our GM, he's been added to the table. Since then, some of his actions have been chipping away my enjoyment...

problem-players roleplaying

G. Moylan

@Upper_Case that reads like an "Am I the Asshole" reddit post. I don't think we're equipped to answer the question in its current form

Upper_Case

@G.Moylan My instinct is that we could handle it if it were a "what should I do to resolve this conflict" question, though those are often borderline as well

G. Moylan

@Upper_Case yeah. If it explicitly asked some kind of "what do?" then I think we could handle it, but as it stands it seems like it'd get better feedback on one of the TTRPG subreddits or AITA

AncientSwordRage

@Upper_Case it is that question, but they'd need a frame challenge to address it

G. Moylan

It's also asking several small questions that themselves are quite broad

AncientSwordRage

2:42 PM

their solution is blame assignment, not working through it. So they're asking "I have a problem, and I want to blame someone, who do I blame" When it could be "I have a problem, how do I work through it"

G. Moylan

@AncientSwordRage They also ask if they should quit

and if it's wrong to feel the way they do

AncientSwordRage

@G.Moylan yeah I think that all stems from not knowing what to ask

RevanantBacon

That is 100% not a stackable question. Purely opinion based, not to mention that I'm sure we don't really have the full story.

Upper_Case

I tossed a comment in, but I'm never good at those

AncientSwordRage

@Upper_Case you did just fine

NautArch

2:55 PM

@KorvinStarmast I like the idea of adding concentration checks for casting a spell under witch bolt.

RevanantBacon

@NautArch Why? Witch Bolt is already bad enough, no need to make it worse.

NautArch

@RevanantBacon You don'tt hink that connecting it to a caster and forcing them to do a concentration check when attempting to cast a spell would be an improvement?

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