TRPG General Chat

AncientSwordRage

12:02 AM

@BESW awesome!

Ben

1:30 AM

Morning all

No immediate news on the timefront to reoprt

AncientSwordRage

1:47 AM

@Ben Roger that

Ben

How was everyone's weekend?

MikeQ

I sent out my seasonal mini-campaign invitation that most of the recipients will ignore.

Ben

@MikeQ I'm not sure I got one? Which email did you send it to? Of the 12 I have, 2 are junk, 4 are purely for accts, I don't have the passwords for 2 and 1 is redundant.

:P

Hot RPG Questions

2:25 AM

4

Q: Can I identify and learn the properties of a magic item that I can't attune to without using the identify spell?

If I have an item I can't attune to, (e.g. a Dwarvern Thrower for a non dwarf or a robe of the Archmagi if I'm not a Spellcaster): can I still find out what it is after a short rest? I am not asking how to identify it, I'm asking if the fact I can't attune to it prevents me from identifying it.

A. B.

3:14 AM

Can anyone show me an example of a "welcome to the site" comment? I've been looking for one but can't off-hand find one, or remember what information is usualyl in them. I want to plagiarise it for Vegetarianism.SE where there've been several new people wandering in and doing things hopelessly wrong, so I think pointing them to the instructions is in order.

But I don't know what instructions.

I'm always seeing "welcome to the site" comments on RPG.SE when I'm not looking for them, but now I am looking for them there's none to be seen :-D

MikeQ

It's usually something like "Welcome to the site! Take the [tour]." Then it's usually followed by a question asking about the game and edition (example), or if that's already given, then a generic "nice first question" sentence.

bobble

3:36 AM

@A.B. (Examples are my personal taste in welcome-comments, meant for Puzzling) Here is an example of a detailed one I did in an attempt to help a new user who had a poor question, here is a more generic welcome when I didn't have anything but welcome to say.

To find more, you could try searching through the "comments" tab of a user who is known to post welcome comments.

A. B.

Thanks, both of you! I've never really thought the tour was that informative, but then I couldn't be sure because I tend to avoid it like the plague myself due to the animations. And I'd forgotten the help centre existed.

bobble

The tour is a good starting place, but the most useful comments for a new user will be pointing out specific problems that they can address at the moment. Learning our rules tends to be easiest in practice, instead of in theory.

Another welcome-adjacent kind of comment that I do is explaining some particular moderation/curation action I took on their answer or question. (Edits or close-votes, really). Example. I particularly try to explain any rollback I make to a new user's edit, because they might get confused why something they did is no longer there.

See here for many useful "magic links" you can use in comments. [tour], [edit], and [help] are the ones I use most (all work as one would expect), but there are some other kinds of useful ones, such as those that go directly to some page of the Help Center.

A. B.

3:56 AM

Oh, now that's handy, I didn't know about those - when you said "[tour]" above I thought you were just abbreviating.

Fair point about pointing out the specific things they've done wrong.

(Though I don't think there's anything that can be done about the main thing I'd like to say to a lot of them, which is "practice your English a bit more" :-D )

bobble

It's almost a "secret" feature, something that's not obvious how it's been done (I at first thought users were manually grabbing the edit link each time), and something that's only useful if you're the kind of person to be posting such comments.

[is curious, goes to look at A. B.'s recent comments on VSE]

For this answer you could try a mod-flag explaining that it should be deleted since there's an updated version by the same user.

A. B.

I didn't comment on all of them. Didn't really know where to start, which is one reason I was looking for a generic welcome-please-read-the-instructions-properly message!

I did flag that one, yes.

bobble

Good luck for taking on community moderation duties!

A. B.

4:18 AM

:-) Thanks! I reckon that one's so neglected I can't really do much harm.

BESW

4:52 AM

18

Q: Pre-made comments: A resource-gathering & workshopping thread

Pre-made comments are awesome. They're also super powerful tools. Let's workshop some new ones and improve the old ones! You've probably seen pre-made comments[i] used across the site by moderators, both diamond and not. They're efficient and help reduce the busywork of moderation[ii], but they'...

discussion comments

17

Q: We could use some more pro-forma comments

I'd like to brainstorm some possibilities for the modal comment-interventions that we tend to do: Welcome to the site, but your question needs work because reasons Welcome to the site, but your answer needs work because reasons Please stop arguing in comments! Please don't answer in comments. R...

discussion comments

BESW

5:24 AM

Come Home by Ash Can Games (And So Can You!). A game of death & memory

Mermay Jam 2021 Hosted by Kestrel Rae. Write a physical/analogue game or supplement about merfolk or merfolk-adjacent beings, such as selkies, etc.

Hot RPG Questions

5:44 AM

4

Q: Balance implications of houseruled “Megaman Warlock”

One of the first 5e character concepts I heard people discussing was the so-called “Megaman Warlock,” based on using monster weapons as pact weapons since the Player’s Handbook rules text for Pact of the Blade seems to suggest that the warlock would be proficient with these weapons. (Word of god ...

dnd-5e warlock homebrew-review eldritch-invocations

Hot RPG Questions

6:34 AM

2

Q: Can I combine two parts of a sword, each with a separate infusion?

If I were to split a sword in two, and use a different infusions on both parts, and lock them back together (without fusing them together), would I get one weapon with 2 artificer infusions?

dnd-5e weapons crafting artificer artificer-infusions

BESW

6:53 AM

has anybody invited Sapphon to the chat?

"Survey: State of TTRPG in MENA" The Crossroads Guild has partnered up with Arabia 20 to create a survey that will help us understand the Tabletop Roleplay Gaming Scene in the Middle East and North Africa. If you're part of that demographic, please take the survey!

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: Is this an ironclad wish?: "I wish for just my body to be young again but to keep all of my physical, mental and magical prowess"

Could you have an ironclad wish that makes you young with no unsavory consequences? My attempt was: "I wish for just my body to be young again but to keep all of my physical and magical prowess" The "I wish for just my body to be young again" part of the wish would stop the entire world from go...

dnd-5e wish

BESW

8:23 AM

"Gloomhaven sequel Frosthaven will change to address cultural bias" article by Charlie Hall for Polygon (so you know it's little more than quoting the official statements; I expect Dicebreaker to have a researched article in a few days). Creator Isaac Childres issues a statement about themes of race and colonialism

AncientSwordRage

10:05 AM

@BESW Who sorry?

@BESW I saw James Mendez Hodez's tweet about this

> So I’m working on this board game and it’s controversial (twitter link)

BESW

11

Q: I just showed up here. Should I be somewhere else if I play other RPGs more than D&D?

Seems like in name 'role-playing games SE' is as such, but by the numbers this is really D&D (and mostly 5E) SE. I've seen this happen before on other sites (Usenet even), where the most obviously-named outlet for a hobby is kind of about the most currently-profitable aspects of that hobby, and e...

support questions

AncientSwordRage

@BESW Oh right

I'm happy to invite them here

I don't see anyone else as having done so

BESW

I don't have any particular topic to invite them to discuss, just sort of a general "this is where people sometimes talk about not-D&D in ways that the mainsite can't handle"

AncientSwordRage

There's also our main chat room, where we discuss all sorts as well as plenty of non-D&D games. Swing by if you haven't already :D — AncientSwordRage 2 mins ago

BESW

Woo!

AncientSwordRage

10:17 AM

@BESW I shall "Woo !" when then join chat :D

BESW

I also drafted but didn't post a comment clarifying that people don't get banned for posting Unspeakable Games.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I know the games you refer to, but now I want to make a game called "The Unspeakable Game"

trogdor

as in,.... those really bad games that shouldn't exist that we prefer not to talk about here or actually games called Unspeakable Games?

AncientSwordRage

@trogdor I want the latter

more Cthulhu Mythos, and less actual Lovecraft.

BESW

[a quick Google later] There's an itch.io game dev account called Unspeakable Games.

trogdor

10:23 AM

lol

AncientSwordRage

It's what they call their adult games

rockpapershotgun.com/…

so they made a game jam about it (not linked, as it's easily googleable)

BESW

No, like: Into the Chopper by Unspeakable Games. Tabletop RPG to play Run & Gun style games Published August 2020.

AncientSwordRage

ahh yeah ok, I should have said "it's also what they call their adult games"

trogdor

oh

Akixkisu

12:05 PM

Read a sr5 to sr6 comparison which is mostly technical and then has this line "one of the cyberlegs has a velociraptor claw on it." - relatable.

AncientSwordRage

12:15 PM

@Akixkisu heh

it's a long post (I found it by your quote)

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage discourse.bigdinosaur.org/t/shadowrun-6e-5e-comparison/1712/8 :P It is very useful.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu thats the one I found

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage "The PDF of the core rulebook isn’t even available on Catalyst’s web store and they’re already errata-ing the book." - fascinating.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu haha

I've seen that before

Wizards of the Coast released a set of MTG cards, where one had an unclear wording. They only spotted it when they fed it into their card reading program for the online game and it took the rules text too literally

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage yes, while I advised on Spilttermond we had a similar issue where a release tied into a convention schedule - so they had to get the print before that date.

AncientSwordRage

12:21 PM

it interpreted "Put all cards into your hands" when what they meant "Put all the revealed cards into your hands"

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage do you remember what card that was?

AncientSwordRage

they only noticed when ALL the cards on the screen just went SCHWOOOP and into the players hand

@Akixkisu the MDFC Alrund card

Akixkisu

Oh.

I really liked that one in limited.

Though the raven is a poor attacker.

AncientSwordRage

I think it's one of the MDFCs that work the best

Get in early with the raven to set up playing Alrund later on

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage Nowadays I play limited, almost exclusively, and the MDFCs tend to perform exceptionally well.

AncientSwordRage

12:24 PM

@Akixkisu yup, seem tailor made for best of one

BESW

@AncientSwordRage SCHWOOOP is best OOOP

AncientSwordRage

yup yup

@BESW hows it going?

Akixkisu

Last time I really played conctructed was during the Field of the Dead combo period because that deck was a ton of fun to play.

AncientSwordRage

I tend to play either limited or historic brawl (I have a Tezzeret of the Fridge deck)

BESW

@AncientSwordRage Not bad. Trying to phrase that thing we talked about in the most concise way possible to allay concerns where they exist without creating concerns where they don't.

AncientSwordRage

12:34 PM

@BESW and also not detract from the whole thing

it's no small task

BESW

Yeah.

An outright insertion would break the flow in ways I can't reconcile in the time available, so I'm putting it into the program.

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage neither brawl nor commander do it for me, I wish I was into either.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu Yeah, I know what you mean

I just like how silly that tezzeret card is

@BESW ah ok

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage I sold my play set of Shahrazad last year because I never got to play it. I loved the concept of that card, but there was little point to holding onto them for a maybe one each other year situation.

BESW

Well, 'program.' I'm doing a thing with the presentation that I'm positive I didn't invent but I can't remember any specific examples of it and everybody I've showed has gone "oooh why doesn't anybody do this."

AncientSwordRage

12:39 PM

@BESW I'm excited to see it

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov I'm trying o find the question, but reskinning existing weapons may be helpful.

BESW

@AncientSwordRage You can see a variant of it here: the sidebar-as-follow-along-program.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch yeah, I’m gonna add some more about that once I’m back at my desk.

I’ve also been thinking about wish questions.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu heh, have you seen the LRR Unstable Pre-Pre-release match between Mark Rosewater and ... I forget his name

BESW

Oh, are you the reason I got an upvote on the girallon arms answer?

Thomas Markov

12:42 PM

It’s a case where it may be beneficial to have a canonical “is this wish DM-proof” question. We get a lot of these questions, and most of them could be dupes.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that's very smart

@ThomasMarkov is the cannonical answer "No the DM is more evil than you could possibly imagine?!"

BESW

@AncientSwordRage It seems eminently obvious? It's the digital equivalent of "Here's your program so you can follow along and know what's happening and what's next."

And yet, it seems entirely too rare.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW it seems super obvious

I'm stealing the idea

yoink

BESW

It's just the same sidebar on every slide, with an indicator that changes on each slide to indicate where in the program that slide falls.

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, basically.

Akixkisu

12:44 PM

@AncientSwordRage I have not, I dare guess you'd recommend it? :)

Thomas Markov

Maybe @Medix2 can do one of their duplicate anthology metas.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu yes

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage Well, it's right there in the rules that the Wish can just fail [without any explicit cause needed], so trivially the answer to anything wanting to confirm Wish-wordings as GM-proof is "no, it's not"

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov Related: Should we have a canonical “Can the Wish spell do X?” question?

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil well how about that

BESW

12:45 PM

@AncientSwordRage I had a GM who refused to ever grant even the most reasonable wish without adding some twist, usually based on the fact that he had a better grasp of formal syntax than most of the people at his table.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu Wedge! that's the guys name

BESW

It was maddening.

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Eh, I disagree with Dale's answer, it does have a canonical answer, which is "wish does whatever the DM wants".

AncientSwordRage

@BESW ughh

BESW

The other players wound up hiring my character to write wishes for them, because I could run syntactical loops around the GM and knew how to butter him up so he'd be inclined to interpret things generously.

kviiri

12:47 PM

IMO the Wish questions, both in the direction of "can my Wish do this?" as well as "will my Wish do this" are indicative of a culture where an authoritative statement, as if from rules, is desired even when we're talking of a spell that is well-removed from normal rules of the game (save for Rule 0).

Thomas Markov

Oh look, Medix already made a duplicate anthology comment

kviiri

And failing to get the "rules statement" from rules, it's sought here.

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage youtube.com/watch?v=BW8ohLCvAJ8 this looks like the vod.

BESW

Was one of my first exposures to the problems with "you don't have to know how to swordfight to win in combat but your character can't have more social grace than you do."

Akixkisu

@BESW sounds obnoxious.

Thomas Markov

12:49 PM

Maybe Ill write a Q&A proposal as an answer to that question.

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage Do you mean the game between Cameron Lauder and Wedge, to which Mark became a participant?

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu I couldn't say from work

@Someone_Evil not sure

kviiri

tbh I think a general "Can a Wish be GM-proofed?" would be a stackable question, with an answer of "No, because..." being easily collected from existing answers to similar questions.

Thomas Markov

@kviiri Yeah, that's the form I was thinking.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW mmmmhm

Akixkisu

12:51 PM

@AncientSwordRage yes it is, that looks fun, thanks.

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov do it and you shall have my updoot (assuming it's good, I mean.)

BESW

@kviiri where "because" is "D&D is a game which gives the GM authority over both players and text, and thus no safeguard cannot be ignored by the GM if they choose to."

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage I just looked back to the original context, and I think it is. Here's just that match for those interested: youtube.com/watch?v=eBMLsY9qSt4

Thomas Markov

@kviiri Im gonna propose a question and answer in that meta thread that we can workshop.

kviiri

@BESW That's certainly true, but even stronger than that, the Wish wording (in 5e) even makes it explicit

Thomas Markov

12:52 PM

@BESW Yes exactly.

Yeah, the 5e wish gives the DM explicit liberty to just say "it doesnt work".

kviiri

Whereas with normal spells you usually have the expectation that "there are rules, and the GM can bend them but usually shouldn't", with Wish you have "there are no rules* and the GM will decide what happens, if anything". It's an unusually strong statement of intent from DnD 5e --- though not in the direction I usually prefer :)

(* excluding the uses of Wish for casting lower-level spells, and the "Wish fatigue" that are more akin to normal formal rules of the game, still subject to GM fiat but not downright expected to be bent by it)

Thomas Markov

Though, wish does have a list of effects than you can expect to not be twisted by the DM.

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, that's the gist of my asterisk'd footnote.

BESW

D&D has always been a game for which "How do I control my GM" is unanswerable by rules: it's a paradigm in which you must trust your ~~godling~~ GM or flee their influence. Everything which appears to be a nuance inbetween those options requires, in actuality, trust.

If you can't call out your GM for being a jerk about wish, no amount of rulesing will fix the problem.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW you can't even wish it to be so

Thomas Markov

1:00 PM

Notably, two of the question on Medix's list are protected, so we also know that some of them see some unwanted noise.

BESW

@Akixkisu That GM also made a wish fizzle without effect if it referenced anything he deemed to be metamechanics--which included a lot of things that any half-decent wizard's guild would have figured out through trial and error a thousand years earlier.

Thomas Markov

Across Medix's 12 questions, there are 21 deleted answers.

BESW

For example, you couldn't wish for a +2 sword. You had to use convoluted roundabout phrasings to get that effect without actually saying so.

AncientSwordRage

that sounds painful

BESW

Yeah. D&D 3.5 was a joy.

AncientSwordRage

1:04 PM

I can imagine your eye twitch as you say that

BESW

It seemed specifically designed to empower that kind of nonsense.

Akixkisu

@BESW Yes. It also attracted that kind of behaviour and validated it.

AncientSwordRage

how did wish in 4E work?

BESW

Jan 14 '20 at 22:51, by BESW

In one minute, anyone with at least level 21 and the Ritual Caster spell who had learned Wish, could create ANY non-creature object by spending the object's cost in spell components. Up to and including entire cities.

G. Moylan

There's still a lot of "3.5 mentality" today, too. Mostly in folks who skipped 4th because they "heard it was bad" or tried it and didn't care for it. Now they're returning to the game in 5E and trying to pull that nonsense again. It's also all over YouTube

Thomas Markov

1:07 PM

Wish from 4e:

G. Moylan

Granted not everybody is doing that, but that's where I've seen most of it come from

Thomas Markov

> You create objects out of nothing. The power of wish is extensive; it can create magic items, fantastic treasures, or whole palaces or even cities. It cannot destroy anything or create creatures. The cost in components is the item’s normal price (with a minimum of 5,000 gp.). You cannot duplicate a specific object. Nor can you create a magic item with a level higher than your own or an object bearing specific information, such as a painting or book, unless you have something to copy.

> It can be used to create magic items but not ritual books or scrolls. The maximum gold piece value of created items depends on the result of the Arcana check.

G. Moylan

So you'd have to pay billions to wish a city into being?

or a lot, at any rate

BESW

Yup. But you'd do it all by yourself in a minute.

G. Moylan

So there's no penalty in 4E? I can just wait for my spell slots to restore and do it again tomorrow?

AncientSwordRage

1:09 PM

@G.Moylan wish for a machine that converts copper to gold

G. Moylan

@AncientSwordRage gotem

BESW

No spell slots, it's a ritual not a power.

G. Moylan

@BESW wow. good grief

BESW

4e doesn't have spell slots.

kviiri

@G.Moylan 4e Wish is a ritual, so the cost is the material cost of the components.

AncientSwordRage

1:10 PM

doesn't even crash the economy, because you never sell the gold

BESW

And you don't have to be a caster class to learn rituals.

kviiri

In a sense, that's a bigger cost since spell slots (or the closest 4e equivalent, Daily Powers) recharge at Extended rest.

BESW

Yeah, Wish costing gold is, in the 4e economy, basically costing you items.

G. Moylan

most spell slots restore in a once-a-day long rest anyway, though

so dailies resetting once a day is mostly the same

kviiri

Yes.

BESW

1:11 PM

And I'm so glad they got rid of the XP cost to wish. I hear they kept that change into 5e?

G. Moylan

@BESW if by that you mean there is no such cost in 5E, then yes

BESW

Yeah.

kviiri

@BESW Yep, no XP cost in 5e. The only "extra" cost in 5e is the 33% chance of never getting to cast Wish again.

G. Moylan

@kviiri if you use it outside of scope. but they did extend what it can do outside of just concoct stuff. it has actual utility now

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I was about to link to that XD

BESW

1:13 PM

@kviiri Ah yes, the deadEarth approach to character viability.

kviiri

@G.Moylan Anyway, 4e Wish is essentially a shop that stocks every kind of object (though not specific objects, plus some other exceptions)

Thanks to 4e being relatively strict about how PCs get money, this makes Wish inherently more restricted though.

BESW

Yeah, I think understanding 4e's Wish requires understanding item bundles.

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri create simulacra, get them to wish that your character will never be denied access to wish

kviiri

In general, many things that are primarily out-of-combat spells in other editions are rituals in DnD 4e. Long-distance transportation, resurrection stuff, scrying and anti-scrying are among some broad categories

They differ from other edition utility spells in a few ways: they consume ritual components (in amounts measured in GP value) instead of daily spellcasting resources, they can be learned by any character with the Ritual Caster feat (which is free for some classes), and they don't count against other magicks or other powers your character might learn (except indirectly if you pick the feat instead of something else)

It has some positive effects, one being that developing the character's out-of-combat utility doesn't come at a direct cost of hamstringing their combat abilities.

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri I like that

kviiri

1:23 PM

@AncientSwordRage Me too.

BESW

And because --since a ritual never takes less than a minute to perform-- they don't have any need to be balanced for use in combat.

kviiri

Righty roo that is true.

AncientSwordRage

I made a warlock ritualist for 4e once

BESW

So you get to do all the cool out-of-combat magic stuff and it doesn't need caveats or mitigations to keep it from breaking combat.

By separating rituals from powers, the game let characters be more awesome.

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage Sadly I've had difficulty finding people who accept this sentiment, because it seems like a natural trade-off to many that you give away some in-combat utility for some out-of-combat utility

BESW

1:25 PM

And by making rituals a feat anyone can taken, they expanded who can be awesome that way.

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri my argument to that is, "That's dumb" but I'm sure it can be more nicely worded

@BESW I remember 4e feats being very well done

May 12 at 14:19, by AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu days since TRPG chat praised D&D 4E: 0

BESW

After they got over the little hiccough of Weapon Focus, yeah.

kviiri

I guess the general opposition stems from the idea that DnD 4e is essentially a combat game, so you're forced to pick combat magic and allowed to pick non-combat magic, upsetting people who want to play a non-combat mage.

BESW

(Also there were a very small number of magazine feats which were worded in ways just ambiguous enough to allow for highly amusing applications, but not in game-breaking ways. Like multiclassing into cleric to get armor proficiency instead of a healing power.)

@kviiri Well that's just a matter of playing the wrong game. I don't complain about a lack of nuanced romance options in Halo.

kviiri

@BESW Yes. But, y'know... don't get me started about DnD being the wrong game for the purposes we're purporting to play it for x)

At least 4e is open about being a combat engine and stresses that aspect in its design.

BESW

1:30 PM

Yar. I respect that about 4e.

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage I recall there being a bit of problem with Feat Tax though

BESW

@kviiri See: Weapon Focus.

There was a set of feats in early 4e which gave +1 to your attack type (weapon focus, implement focus, etc). If you were seriously about your maths, those feats were absolutely necessary, but they did nothing except give a +1.

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage btw, I'm throughly enjoying the game, thanks for the recommendation.

BESW

So, Wizards released a set of new feats, specific to each category of weapon, implement, etc., which gave +1 to attacks with that item AND gave a category-specific addon effect like pushing 1 square, being able to trip, etc.

So you still "had" to take a +1 feat, but the choice of which +1 feat to take became an interesting and useful part of your build.

The simpler solution would've been to make a one-point adjustment to various parts of the game in the errata, but instead they took a flaw and made it a really engaging tactical feature.

You might multiclass, or take a specific race, to get proficiency with a weapon that's nonstandard for your class but has a +1 feat whose effect rider allows a really cool synergy with your build.

Or you might take a very typical weapon for your build, because the +1 feat for that weapon is designed with that kind of build specifically in mind and makes you even MORE that classical archetype.

On reflection, that's a good indication of how 4e did things really well. They knew that the problem wasn't "you must take this feat to be effective," it was "you must take this boring feat to be effective." Instead of making the feat unnecessary, they made it unboring.

(Compare 3.5's attempt to rehabilitate Weapon Focus and Toughness which suffered from similar problems: they made the feats mandatory for a lot of prestige classes, which didn't unboring it but instead doubled down on forcing the boring to happen.)

Akixkisu

1:56 PM

I kind of wish that 4e had no fumble rules.

BESW

Fumbles are a weird little mechanic.

I appreciate, on one level, that 4e actually made them interesting moments of crisis.

But as I recall, that was an optional house rule?

The thing about fumbles is, if they're applied to NPCs and PCs alike, it will always favor PCs because NPCs as a whole roll so much more and are designed to fail faster when things don't go their way.

The 4e DMG even points out that controllers will get hit by it more than other classes and this may be frustrating.

kviiri

@BESW That feel when the much-maligned 4e exhibits more design sense than many real GMs I've known even when prompted about this...

BESW

kviiri

2:12 PM

Vastly more should I say

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu you're welcome!

Thomas Markov

Alright, Im at the part of my meta answer where I write the Q&A proposal

Something like: "Is is possible to word a Wish in such a way that the DM cannot twist it?"

SmokeDetector

2:37 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of answer (34): How do Hard or Extreme rolls vs increasing penalty dice affect the odds of success or failure? by Anonymous on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

doppelgreener

@Glazius I've been thinking about your fate conflict pacing answer a lot since yesterday. It's great, and I'm going to post a bounty for it.

Part of the reason I've been thinking about it, other than it's educational for me, is that a lot is also I'm trying to figure out a suggestion for the first part.

Mainly just about the thing I also left a comment about: at the start, you suggest only use the conflict rules if both parties specifically have the intent to harm one another.

I'm not sure how I'd phrase it or even suggest it inside comment length, but it might be worth talking mentioning that even then sometimes it's not worth turning things into a conflict. Sometimes the armed guards are just an obstacle, and we'd rather dispatch them with a single roll rather than break into an entire conflict scene, which is a thirty-second to thirty-minute pacing difference. Sometimes they're a serious head-on threat and it's going to be more fun to break into that conflict.

... I'm not sure how I'd begin to articulate that inside the scope of your answer, but I feel it's worth mentioning.

For me the dividing line is somewhere around: these are major characters with major stakes that can only be resolved at this point by head-on conflict, or the action is just awesome enough it's worth zooming in on.

In Avatar the Last Airbender, the Gaang's invasion of the earth kingdom palace is so one-sided I'm not sure I'd make it a conflict so much as a contest to see how hard the players steamroll the guards, or if they fail abysmally and get totally driven away. Probably mainly because at this point, the goal isn't "hurt each other" so much as "get past these guys."

(Note to self: if the team has gone through setback after setback and accumulated a whole lot of fate points, it's almost certainly worth considering letting them come back by steamrolling down a series of opposition triumphantly.)

TheDragonOfFlame

2:55 PM

Hello!

bobble

\o

AncientSwordRage

@TheDragonOfFlame \oo//

TheDragonOfFlame

Looks like there's a PbP game going on

Actually the reason I haven't been in here for a while is because I am involved in a bunchc of pbp on MythWeavers

Cat of doom2

hey everyone, I think I'm going to drop off for a while. I did something very wrong and I've been depressed. I'm very sorry for everything I've done. I hope to see you all again one day. again, I'm very sorry for everything I've done, disturbing the peace of this site, I ruin everything I touch, and due to that, I have chosen to stop trying to get involved in communities and ruining them.

i hope you all remain in good health and that I can see you all again.

MikeQ

@Catofdoom2 You haven't disturbed the peace or ruined anything on the site. Did someone tell you that?

TheDragonOfFlame

3:06 PM

Not that I have any idea what's going on, but I'm sure there's no way you could ruin this, and I don't think you should go.

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 you've not ruined anything...? Definitely not everything you touch

whoever told you that is wrong ( even if it's your own brain :P )

Brains can lie to you

MikeQ

Ah, I found it. They were running a play-by-text game in one of the back rooms, and a player was unhappy with the game and left.

TheDragonOfFlame

Mah, players leave games all the time

Doesn't reflect on who you are

Thomas Markov

I posted an answer concerning a canonical question for "can wish do X" questions.

Devils _Spawn

3:21 PM

Cat hasn't done anything wrong. I'm wondering why he's saying these things

AncientSwordRage

@Devils_Spawn I think in the past Cat has implied/I've inferred they struggle with various things that look to me like depression/low self esteem/distress intolerance/catastrophising. It's not for me to diagnose something, or judge, but if they're more comfortable taking a break then that is a good idea

I say this as someone who's helped a family member with this sort of thing

Devils _Spawn

Oh. How do you know if you're depressed?

MikeQ

That's a complicated question, since the severity and symptoms can vary, and the condition itself can mess with a person's own perceptions. I'd suggest doing some google research on the topic if you're interested.

AncientSwordRage

@Devils_Spawn I'm not sure if I can put it into words

TheDragonOfFlame

Also they do state that they are depressed

AncientSwordRage

3:26 PM

but feelings of hopelessness/worthlessness are common

Devils _Spawn

Okay. I was wondering because I think I might be depressed

AncientSwordRage

Also, a lack of interest in doing things that you think you should enjoy/did enjoy, or apathy in general

Devils _Spawn

Yes, good point

AncientSwordRage

@Devils_Spawn I'd definitely seek professional help if possible, even if it's free support from a charity

or if it feels like it's not severe. Nip it in the bud, buddy

Devils _Spawn

What do you mean "free support from charity?"

AncientSwordRage

3:29 PM

so I don't know if you live somewhere that has free health care

but there are free phonelines you can call up and just talk to someone

Devils _Spawn

I wouldn't do that, except I'm doing it now, to people I don't really know

AncientSwordRage

I mean, if it helps it helps :D

Devils _Spawn

But it's okay. I honestly feel comfortable talking to you guys/girls

MikeQ

Except this is a chat room of tabletop game nerds and strangers. This room is not a therapist and this site is not equipped for therapy. At best this community can be a loose support network, but not a solution. Mental health issues generally required licensed professionals, or at least trained personnel at call centers.

TheDragonOfFlame

@Devils_Spawn I know, right? I've always felt that way, and I can't really say why.

AncientSwordRage

3:32 PM

@MikeQ I agree, so if things get too regular/intense we can shift our chatting elsewhere.

Devils _Spawn

I know. I think it's because we like some of the same things, we're nerds, we build each other up (I'm talking about things like the questions, you don't go hard core, your wrong! On each other)

AncientSwordRage

it all builds trust

MikeQ

I should also mention that anyone can speak to a therapist. Unfortunately there's stigma about this in the west, and an idea that "only crazy people" would see therapists. But the reality is that it's ok to seek professional help, even if it's just to vent or talk about an ongoing stressful situation.

AncientSwordRage

@MikeQ that's a really excellent point

G. Moylan

@MikeQ yeah mental health stigma seems to be improving lately but it still has a long way to go. And there are some aspects like OCD that are still severely misunderstood by many

Devils _Spawn

3:35 PM

Great point.

G. Moylan

At any rate, TTRPGs are not therapists, nor are the people we play them with. We can be friends, we can be support, but we cannot be an adequate substitute for therapy.

despite the memes and jokes telling us otherwise

Devils _Spawn

@AncientSwordRage, that's what it's all about right? Building trust? Kind of at least

AncientSwordRage

yup, but worth building that with a therapist as well

Devils _Spawn

I guess. I don't really want to talk about my life to someone I don't really know well. I'll give important things,but.... you know what I mean right?

MikeQ

Tabletop games can feel therapeutic, but they're not therapy. Do not use them as therapy. They're not designed to handle that kind of processing.

AncientSwordRage

3:40 PM

@Devils_Spawn yup! The thing is when you start talking to a therapist you don't feel like opening up and I think most good therapists understand and expect that

Devils _Spawn

That is true.

AncientSwordRage

@MikeQ mostly, I don't know of any games designed for that but most main stream games definitely aren't aimed at that

Devils _Spawn

Yeah. It's just hard to do for me. Why? No idea

MikeQ

For example, many eons ago, way back when I first started with tabletop games, I did use sessions to vent and let out frustration in-character, and in retrospect it made the other players uncomfortable.

KorvinStarmast

@Devils_Spawn I've played all but 4e, and it's a pretty good one.

AncientSwordRage

3:42 PM

@Devils_Spawn that's also ok

Most therapists should be good at making you (eventually) feel comfortable enough to open up

Devils _Spawn

It's very hard for me. Let's just say I have anger issues.

And I'd kill someone if they abused a child. Anyone really. I was abused, and I don't want to see people go through that same experience

AncientSwordRage

@Devils_Spawn those things can and sometimes should be worked though

Devils _Spawn

I haven't played 4e, but I've played 5e

Yeah. I guess so

Yes, it's just the way I feel because of being abused

AncientSwordRage

that's a valid way to feel, but not every feeling needs to be acted on

Hi @Mast

Mast

Hi @Ancient

Devils _Spawn

3:48 PM

Btw, thanks for helping and talking to me about it, @AncientSwordRage

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast @Trish I'm going to move this over to Dragons, but please all remember that lots of us play different games here. If you don't like one of them, that's fine - but please don't let your dislike bleed over into trying to influence others.

AncientSwordRage

@Devils_Spawn no problem, but remember I'm no substitute for a real therapist

NautArch

→ 9 messages moved to Here There Be Dragons

→ 1 message moved to Here There Be Dragons

KorvinStarmast

@Devils_Spawn You can use the basic rules encounter building here. Good enough to get started.

Devils _Spawn

Okay, thanks @KorvinStarmast!

NautArch

3:52 PM

Last warning: Please move this conversation to Dragons.

Devils _Spawn

Yes @NautArch, sorry

KorvinStarmast

@Trish Good to recall that there is sent and received communication. your frustration with how much D&D dominates this site (and it has for 10 years) is coming out in the tone for the last five days. So I'm telling you, that's how it's coming across. I am sorry to give you offense.

NautArch

→ 3 messages moved to Here There Be Dragons

Thomas Markov

Anyway, go check out my proposal here:

8

Q: Should we have a canonical "Can the Wish spell do X?" question?

We have a lot of questions about the spell Wish across various D&D editions, largely of the form, "I thought of X, can the Wish spell do that?" or "One of my players cast Wish and asked for X, can it do that? What should happen?" I think we would benefit from either a single cross-edition canoni...

discussion questions dungeons-and-dragons

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov it's good

MikeQ

3:53 PM

Or check out my proposal:
A D&D 5e class that's designed to be played by dogs.

AncientSwordRage

Hi @hyper-neutrino

G. Moylan

@NautArch @AncientSwordRage comment to @Devils_Spawn can be moved back, I think

Mithical

@MikeQ You had my attention, but now you have my interest.

Thomas Markov

@MikeQ You get extra points for calling it “Tabarxi”

2

hyper-neutrino

Please only use flags to indicate that a message is spam or is something an average person would consider to have malicious intent, be offensive, or be harmful. Disagreements will happen and if you want to stop discussing/debating/arguing with another user, withdrawing from the conversation is the best action. I've noticed a high amount of invalid flags here. Not going to call out any users.

6

Devils _Spawn

3:54 PM

...

hyper-neutrino

@AncientSwordRage hey there :)

RevanantBacon

@KorvinStarmast FWIW, I was picking up that as well.

NautArch

@hyper-neutrino Thank you!

Devils _Spawn

Will do @Hyper-neutrino!

MikeQ

As for official options, so far I think the following can be played by dogs:
- a ranger's animal companion
- a familiar
- an artificer's robot pal
- a wild mage sorcerer

Mithical

3:57 PM

I'll pass the info on to Rubio. ;)

Devils _Spawn

I agree

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