TRPG General Chat

12:32 AM

@BESW Regarding superheroes, I'll agree at least that there are some problems (and they include a lot of important ones) that can only be solved by a lot of boots on the ground, and whether there are lightning bolts on one of the pairs of boots makes very little difference.

Have you ever read the webcomic called "Strong Female Protagonist"?

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: Do Pact of the Tome Warlocks need to pay a cost to scribe their ritual spells?

The Pact of the Tome warlock is able to learn ritual spells of any kind and record them in their book of spells. Wizards also can learn new spells and record them in their spell book-- but the PHB explicitly requires them to pay a cost in gold and time to record the spells (i.e. 50 GP per spell l...

Shalvenay

1:10 AM

@A.B. this brings to mind the North American housing market mess, of all things

BESW

1:33 AM

@Shalvenay Individuals can spearhead action, but there has to be community follow-through.

Shalvenay

@BESW definitely. what's missing is structures that enable that community follow-through rather than restrain it, but that's probably a discussion that should be taken to a different venue :)

BESW

Aye, and that's a big issue with even the most "inspirational" versions of superheroing. It's like charity: charity is good, it helps people in immediate need, but it should never be considered a replacement of systemic support.

(One of the best things about The Dark Knight was its accidental admission that Batman can never improve Gotham; the best he can ever hope to do is keep it from getting worse.)

Shalvenay

D&D 3.x FR question: what all is known about the Great Codex of Procampur, and in particular, its contents?

A. B.

2:28 AM

@BESW Yeah, superhero stories are traditionally usually (though they probably don't have to be) about total strangers swooping in from stage left.

Reminds me of something I heard someone say to the effect that by ancient American tradition in action movies the world can only be saved by random unaccountable people who have no business to be there.

Joshua

Saruman does not need a starship.

A. B.

It seems like any kind of story that's fun is not allowed, though, so I suppose there's nothing special about superheroes.

BESW

That's a big leap to make.

Nobody said a ding-dang thing about allowability.

"Thing has problems" is not the same as "thing should not exist," and nobody here is making that claim.

Joshua

2:44 AM

But 440 Hz at 120 dB is a loud

A. B.

X-D

@BESW Well, you could have fooled me. I think I'm just rattled by reading that blog you posted, though.

BESW

What blog? I post many.

A. B.

James Mendez Hodes.

BESW

I'm vocally pro-enjoying-flawed-things, and part of engaging with flawed things is talking about their flaws.

Jul 6 '20 at 12:44, by BESW

Yeah, it's okay to like flawed stuff; otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to like anything because humans are all exceedingly messy. It's what we do with the liking, how our expression of it can improve the world or fail to do so, that's the big reflection.

May 6 '19 at 8:38, by BESW

I stand by my opinions of 5e as a haphazard unhappy compromise on overweening ambitions until I'm convinced otherwise, but a thing being flawed does not, itself, make it bad to find joy in the thing. Otherwise we'd all be completely miserable.

Mar 31 '19 at 10:16, by BESW

Nothing is perfect in this world, and so it's not only okay but necessary to like imperfect things. I just advocate liking them critically, which means staring their flaws in the face without flinching.

Joshua

A great day for a CompSci blog was when Mrs. Whatsit posted that traveling salesman was O(1).

BESW

2:50 AM

@A.B. Yeah, Hodes isn't saying "don't do fun things" either. He's got entire posts about how to do fun things with care and respect.

A. B.

I suppose I should just die.

I clearly haven't the energy to do anything right.

I would probably be in a better temper if I hadn't just spent five days negotiating to join the wrong Vampire: the Masquerade server.

BESW

That's an extreme reaction. It's reasonable, in the context of social media's polarization of nuance, to reach a point where "thing has problems" looks like "thing should not exist," because a lot of discourse does work at that level and that's bad.

But people like Hodes, and a lot of people in this chat, try very hard to keep the nuance in. Notice, for example, that instead of saying superhero stories shouldn't exist, I actually mentioned a few things I think have been done right, and some things I'd like to see in the future. That's the opposite of disallowing fun.

A. B.

What things? Gravius mentioned a thing called the Honor Guard in a thing called Astro City.

Oh, it was you that mentioned that line in The Dark Knight, I forgot.

BESW

I mentioned Black Panther and Thor: Ragnarok as examples of good scripting dealing with nuanced theme, only compromised by their sign-offs into the next segment of the franchise.

A. B.

Oh, that must have been further back than I'd scrolled.

BESW

2:58 AM

And if the conversation had continued, I'd've mentioned Miles Morales, Jaime Reyes, Captain America, and Superman as characters who at their best are figures that inspire non-superpowered people to take action and rise to serve others according to their own capacities.

They still struggle within the DC/MC pantheon's worship of the status quo, so those themes are often frustrated and undermined, but they're there.

I'd really like to see the shared universes disentangled so that there's more potential for growth in each character.

Joshua

Is it time to worry if your opponent is still standing after being hit with five disintegration spells?

A. B.

@BESW I seem to remember that quote I was working on beginning with something about the standard model being a villain trying to change the status quo.

BESW

Pre-52 Jaime is probably one of my favorite DC/MC heroes, because he's always thinking about his role as a member of his local community rather than thinking his powers elevate him over his community.

A. B.

Making it necessary for a bunch of private individuals with no business there to shoot him and restore order.

@Joshua Yes.

BESW

@A.B. This is absolutely a common trope, even outside the superhero genre. When stories are written by people who are comfortable in the status quo, antagonists are the people with vision and heroes are the people who stop that vision.

That's why a story like Broken Earth, which is about the necessity of destroying broken systems, shakes people up.

A. B.

3:04 AM

Oh, I think it was talking about action movies, not superhero stories as such. I'm not telling it right, either. Don't know what the actual version was or who said it.

BESW

Aye, it's super prevalent.

And it contributes to why we remember villains more than heroes in a lot of films/cartoons/comics.

A. B.

I've not read "Broken Earth" yet. I liked "Stone Hunger", so I'm interested.

BESW

The villains are the people who want things and take action to achieve their goals, they're proactive. The heroes in those stories are reactive.

> Well, some worlds are built on a fault line of pain, held up by nightmares. Don't lament when those worlds fall. Rage that they were built doomed in the first place.
- NK Jemisin, The Stone Sky

A. B.

Ha, you could have a point there!

Especially if you don't like the look of the world the heroes were defending in the first place.

BESW

@A.B. It's really really obvious in "classic" era Disney films. Cinderella's virtue is being content with abuse.

Aurora barely even has a personality, much less a desire, which means Maleficent gets to stand out as memorable despite having no clearly stated reason or motive beyond "evil."

A. B.

3:08 AM

Although what virtue is appropriate when you can't do anything about it?

BESW

Aye. It's an interesting take, and one that has been done VERY well--just not by Disney.

bobble

What do you think of the remakes? "Maleficent", the live-action Cinderella, etc.

A. B.

I haven't actually seen Disney's Cinderella, so I'm just thinking about the plot of the story in general.

Oh, you never answered about whether you'd seen "Strong Female Protagonist".

BESW

Contentment in trials, perseverance and patience in tests, are very important virtues. But Disney struggled to show that kindness and compassion to your tormentors is more than just being a passive, permissive doormat.

@A.B. Doesn't ring a bell.

A. B.

Oh, I think you'd like it.

BESW

3:10 AM

@bobble The direct remakes are unnecessary and tend toward the grotesque because they're transliterations rather than adaptations and the conventions of animation don't work in live action.

The "prequel" stuff is a bit more interesting, sometimes. Maleficent would've been better if it had been an independent story rather than a prequel to an existing one, it would've had more opportunities to [ahem] stretch its wings.

Lots of promise, but too restrained by expectations--on the other hand, probably wouldn't have been made at all if it hadn't been part of an existing franchise, because that's how movies work these days.

The Indigenous genocide theming of the second Maleficent film was.... well-meaning but painful. Again, might've had more of a chance if it hadn't been saddled with a Legacy.

A. B.

That sounds about right! Everything's a sequel these days.

BESW

I really like seeing different writers get to play in the same sandbox, it's one of my favorite things about Doctor Who and I will watch just about any adaptation of Hamlet or Alice in Wonderland.

But when we get caught up in continuity and marketability and bRaNd LoNgEvItY, well. We get Thorgnarok being allowed to walk right up to an absolutely scathing takedown of colonialism in general and Disney in particular, but then the teeth are pulled at the last minute.

I will say, "everything is sequels" is not new. There were 8 Frankenstein movies in 17 years from 1931 to 1948. That's Spider-Man film numbers.

But the nature of the sequel-making business has changed dramatically and that can be a problem.

Hot RPG Questions

3:31 AM

3

Q: Can I Feint while Swallowed Whole?

Sethix the Swashbuckler has been Swallowed Whole by a T-Rex. In order to help cut his way out, Sethix wants to Feint to gain Panache, since he is a Fencer Swashbuckler. Is this something Sethix can do? I'm aware the flat-footed condition would be redundant, but that's not the point here, perhaps ...

pathfinder-2e combat-maneuver

BESW

@HotRPGQuestions I know I'd faint.

A. B.

:-D

trogdor

lol

bobble

my brain refuses to accept "lol" as a word and insists it must be a person raising both hands

BESW

Hot RPG Questions

6:50 AM

3

Q: Where are aquatic elves defined?

Aquatic elves are mentioned under the sahuagin entry in the Monster Manual, and also in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but I don't see them defined anywhere. Is there a stat block or other description of them anywhere beyond the sahuagin entry?

dnd-5e races elf

A. B.

7:58 AM

BESW or anybody else who happens to be here: please give me one example of anything that is allowed, or at least not too unallowed, in any role-playing game?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

8:18 AM

@A.B. You do realise that different people will have wildly different views on it, ranging from very limited options, all the way to 'whatever so long as the party is fine going along with this'?

BESW

"Any" game? Aside from "the table is always allowed to override the text," I'd say it can't be done, precisely because nobody here should be able to force people to allow something at somebody else's table.

I can say things that I'd expect to be allowed at any table I sat down to, and are likely deal-breakers if they aren't there. Like being allowed to interrupt the game at any time to share needs, requests, concerns.

(I built that into my Goblin Court game as a mechanic.)

A. B.

@vicky Well, anything that anyone allows, or at least might not actually ban me from any games they ran for life for, would be something.

I'm having rather a bad day.

Year.

Decade.

BESW

But gosh, we don't really talk about what's allowed. We talk about what sorts of consequences things have so people can make informed choices.

"Allowed" is something each table figures out.

A. B.

Have you ever known anyone on any occasion allow horses?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. As a PC?

BESW

8:24 AM

I don't know what you mean. Settings with horses in the world? PCs riding horses? PCs that are horses?

A. B.

Anywhere you like.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I know an apocryphal story of someone playing a smart horse who took a paladin as an Ally.

A. B.

I know I'm not making a heck of a lot of sense.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

But it's from a second-hand account, I don't even know the name.

A. B.

Oh, my, that is definitely a thing that should happen. :-)

Basically I'm just having one of my incidents of not believing that anything of any kind could ever be OK or even more OK than any definable other thing in any circumstances.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

8:26 AM

@A.B. I remember you playing. I don't recall anything worth 'ban for life', though there were communication difficulties.

A. B.

Hence asking seriously if horses are allowed in role-playing games. :-P I know perfectly well they are.

I just don't believe a word I say at the moment.

Aww.

Basically the things I'm upset about are not things I can talk about.

It beats posting diamond emojis.

Anyway, I should stop thinking only of myself. Would either of you like anything? I haven't got it, though.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Like?

A. B.

I don't know.

I just have nowhere more relevant to talk.

Like I say, for a bit I was posting a diamond emoji in the music bot channel of a Discord server I'm in whenever I couldn't hold it all in any longer. I got up to nine, and then somebody deleted them and asked me what I was playing at, so here I am.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I'm mostly keeping an eye on this channel because sometimes it has interesting stuff or questions I can answer.

A. B.

Well, I don't think I have either of those things. :T_T-)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

8:40 AM

@A.B. Well often just bringing up a topic in enough detail for someone else to understand the gist is enough to start 'interesting stuff'.

A. B.

I don't think I have any topics.

You don't happen to know anywhere I could go and have a bit of a cry, even in emojis, do you?

RL would be a very bad idea.

(Is that a topic? :-) )

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I don't know a 'proper' place (it's not how I handle the frustrating parts of my life).

A. B.

Yeah

AncientSwordRage

11:48 AM

> "The only important elements in any society are the artistic and the criminal, because they alone, by questioning the society’s values, can force it to change."

Warning! TV Tropes!

@bobble I can't not see it now

@A.B. Old Larp system I played 'banned' horses, or more like it, reasoned it out of the world. Because it would make more sense to have them, but they're hard to represent without actual horses.

BESW

12:13 PM

Dog sledges instead!

Yuuki

12:51 PM

TIL compound bows were invented after nuclear weapons and spaceflight and are only older than the moon landing by about 3 years.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Yuuki Not to be confused with composite ones, of course.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW if only

@Yuuki pulleys are black magic

I say this as someone who's studied physics

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I often have

something about the similar spelling confused me no end

nitsua60

2:58 PM

@AncientSwordRage Agree, as a lifelong sailor and sometime professional physicist.

AncientSwordRage

3:37 PM

@nitsua60 arrrrrrr

KorvinStarmast

4:45 PM

@MikeQ Might make some coin selling "Slapping a dragon is not advised" t-shirts in Saltmarsh. 😎

@MikeQ matt colville had a youtube on that kind of feature to improve boss monsters, don't remember which youtube he did that one on

@bobble it's short for "goalgoalgoalgoalgoalgoalgoal!"

Hot RPG Questions

5:13 PM

9

Q: Does Summon Undead "create" an undead?

A School of Necromancy Wizard at 6th level gains the Undead Thralls ability, which reads: At 6th level, you add the animate dead spell to your spellbook if it is not there already. When you cast animate dead, you can target one additional corpse or pile of bones, creating another zombie or skele...

dnd-5e class-feature wizard necromancy

SmokeDetector

5:34 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (349): How do I keep spellcasters from casting while in jail? by Aleta Robert on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

SmokeDetector

6:38 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, repeating words in answer (175): Why do Warlocks only have spells up to 5th level? What's the correct progression for their slots? by aaaaa on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

Hot RPG Questions

6:52 PM

1

Q: Genie Patron offers the spell Wish as a 9th level option. Do we suffer stress from using Wish?

I was wondering this based of the new Tasha's Cauldron update for Dnd 5e. I was flicking through the Warlock section and found that 9th level offers the spell wish for the Genie patron. Since Warlocks have Mystic Arcanum's at that level instead of an actual spell slot at 9th level (functions as a...

dnd-5e spells warlock spellcasting wish

Xirema

7:39 PM

So during last night's D&D session, since we were using Foundry for the first time ever, I declared the first half of the session "non-canonical".

A fact which I then used to justify dropping a Tarrasque on top of the party. 🤣

Shalvenay

@Xirema this makes me wonder if a Tarrasque would survive a Pascal Bravo experience...

Xirema

@Shalvenay What's that referencing?

Shalvenay

Operation Plumbbob

Operation Plumbbob was a series of nuclear tests conducted between May 28 and October 7, 1957, at the Nevada Test Site, following Project 57, and preceding Project 58/58A. == Background == The operation consisted of 29 explosions, of which only two did not produce any nuclear yield. Twenty-one laboratories and government agencies were involved. While most Operation Plumbbob tests contributed to the development of warheads for intercontinental and intermediate range missiles, they also tested air defense and anti-submarine warheads with smaller yields. They included forty-three military effects...

AncientSwordRage

8:26 PM

@HotRPGQuestions I love when a question phrased similar to "Can I do this busted thing if I squint and cross my fingers" gets a very reasonable upvoted answer without the question getting too much praise

@Shalvenay surely thats what created the Tarrasque...

Glazius

9:20 PM

@AncientSwordRage It created something, alright. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla_(1954_film)

AncientSwordRage

9:38 PM

@Glazius exactly

bobble

@AncientSwordRage lol

AncientSwordRage

18 hours ago, by bobble

my brain refuses to accept "lol" as a word and insists it must be a person raising both hands

Yuuki

10:05 PM

@Shalvenay like would the tarrasque survive being hit by the steel cap or would the tarrasque survive being wedged into the borehole?

Shalvenay

@Yuuki tarrasque would be standing atop the steel cap at T=0

Yuuki

well, a steel cap is probably an improvised weapon, so i'd imagine the tarrasque would survive 1d4 bludgeoning damage

an explosion probably has a STR score of 0, so it'd be 1d4-5 bludgeoning damage, so yeah it'd be fine

Shalvenay

@Yuuki yeah, the issue isn't the explosion or being bludgeoned -- I suspect that the Tarrasque would accelerate to high velocity along with the cap, and then its troubles would start

Yuuki

@Shalvenay being moved against its will doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity though

Shalvenay

10:25 PM

@Yuuki that it does not -- but if you're going some multiple of escape velocity, air drag doesn't need AoO to do damage XD

AncientSwordRage

11:07 PM

@Shalvenay I really want to know now.... How far would it go?

Shalvenay

@AncientSwordRage that's a darn good question -- if the tarrasque survived its aerothermodynamic experience, I suspect it'd end up orbiting something

BESW

11:37 PM

TARRASQUE! IN! SPAAAAAACE!

bobble

    Tarrasque

BESW

11:55 PM

Our Stormy Present by Blackberry & Holly. Join together to fight the forces of Empire aboard your Airship

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