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BESW
BESW
12:36 AM
Okay, never mind Stages. Anybody got experience with Google Meet/Workspace?
 
Glazius
Glazius
None here, sorry.
 
bobble
bobble
1:21 AM
@BESW my online school is on Google Meet, and I tutor through it as well. What's your question?
 
BESW
BESW
2:16 AM
@bobble I'm looking to host an online memorial service for my dad. It should be able to handle at least a hundred people, and be able to support (a) streaming an audio/visual presentation with both recorded and live elements; (b) streaming visuals with audience audio participation; (c) associated text channels; (d) multiple OS support for audiences; (e) at least three hours of uptime for a single event; (f) no complicated account requirements for audiences.
 
bobble
bobble
Google Meet requires a Google account, I think
 
BESW
BESW
Right now the only possible option seems to be Zoom, and we'd like to know if that's really the only one.
 
bobble
bobble
oop nope no Google Account needed support.google.com/meet/answer/….
But they'd need to be specially let in to the room
What that would look like from the host's end is an annoying dinging notification sound, then a box popping up to ask whether this person should be admitted or not
The guest would click on "Ask to join" instead of just "join" and then wait for approval
(or I think it's ask - might be a different wording)
Anyways, for the other requirements.
a) There's a nice Present feature which effectively shares your screen (you can jiggle it to show a single tab, or everything that shows up on your screen). Drawbacks include a 5-10sec load time for the presentation to pop up, and only being able to present from one person at a time (you have to un-present and then let the other person take over, or they just override you).
Live stuff is trickier, but it's possible to set up a camera and have that be the main screen (Have everyone "pin" it to their view so they can see it big)
b) People can talk while something is being presented, though it's a pain to have any sort of conversation (as it would be for any online call) because of talking over each other, echo, etc.
c) Chat works. It even has little notifications (with sounds) pop up for new messages (if you don't have it open) or a green dot if you do. However it can scroll by pretty fast and there is no way to edit. Messages also have a character restriction, though it's a decent amount that you can post at once.
> Meet supports the current version and the 2 previous major releases of these operating systems:

Apple macOS
Microsoft Windows
Chrome OS
Ubuntu and other Debian-based Linux distributions
Meet works with these mobile operating systems:

Android 5.0 and above. Learn how to check and update your Android version.
iOS 12.0 and above.
Meet video calls in the Gmail app are compatible with these operation systems:

Android 6 and above
iOS 12 and above
e) Google had a 60-min time limit for free accounts, but they waived it for the pandemic. Let me look up if that's still active.
Ah drat, it expired March 31
So you'd be limited to 1hr and 100 participants
Sorry for not getting to that first
 
BESW
BESW
I'm okay to pay for features. If we were doing this during a non-pandemic time, we'd be paying for a venue and refreshments.
 
bobble
bobble
Even with the top plan there's a hard limit of 250 in a call
Not sure if that's a problem?
 
BESW
BESW
2:32 AM
I doubt we're gonna get more than a hundred, but it's not easy to tell.
 
bobble
bobble
I think that's everything from your list?
 
BESW
BESW
Thank you!
 
bobble
bobble
Some other considerations:
- Unless you get extensions/add-ons (not *entirely* sure how it works), you can only see max 9 people at a time.
- If Internet gets slow Meet will cut off the video for everyone but the person it decides is important (usually the host)
- Other available features are polls and breakout rooms, though not sure if they're applicable here
There's also a "nickname" feature for the link (instead of a random string of letters you can have the URL include some easy-to-remember phrase), but I'm not sure if that's only for the education package
You may want to try asking on Software Recommendations
(though they have an abysmal answer rate, so don't expect too much)
 
 
5 hours later…
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
7:12 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword in link text in answer, blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (262): Is GameScience's non-cylindrical seven-sided die a balanced/fair die? by Jasmin Smith on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
 
BESW
BESW
7:51 AM
FEELERS by hexavexagon. Non-verbal TTRPG safety tool (but like... for bugs)
 
 
1 hour later…
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
9:00 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title (197): The best way to get the solution cash app transfer failed by Linafournier on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
 
 
3 hours later…
BESW
BESW
11:54 AM
Wish You Were Here: A Postcard Jam Hosted by ACGodliman. Make a game or something like one which will fit onto a single postcard, one that can be printed, addressed, stamped and sent through the postal service without needing to be placed into an envelope.
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:22 PM
Which 5e class would most likely have "Barbra Streisand" as their BGM? Someone from our table is running a "shopping"-themed one-shot and I've already decided most of my character aside from their class and stats.
Specifically, the one by Duck Sauce.
I'm think Paladin as a potential option and I'll just rebrand one of the Oaths to the "Oath of Capitalism"
 
kviiri
kviiri
I'm tempted so say "Ranger" but that's largely because the song strongly associates to my military tenure.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Ranger would be interesting. Like I just came out of the woods and need to adapt to the fashions of urban civilization.
Fashion Montage
 
kviiri
kviiri
I would sit at the station, listening to the radio and automating connection checks, and it was nothing but non-stop "Barbra Streisand", "I don't need a parachute", "Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag" or "It's gonna be a Bambi ride"
plus some Finnish pop
 
Axoren
Axoren
Warlock, Pact of Credit, Patron: The Platinum.
I think someone is already planning to be a Rogue Shoplifter.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Play a Str-oriented Fighter or Barbarian shoplifter
I mean one that can actually lift shops
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:33 PM
Barbarians would definitely be the Karens. Their Rage is them saying "Let me speak to your manager."
I feel like a Fighter is the one who always gets everything they're looking for on Black Friday.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@Axoren If your rogue isn't shoplifting, are they even a real rogue?
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BaconyRevanant They might just spend the whole session at the back of the store, trying to hide their DARK PAST from the other shoppers as they brood and browse. hair flip No one could ever understand how hard it is to maintain this aesthetic on a part-time wage.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BaconyRevanant I personally preferred to play good guy Rogues back in the day :)
though I never played particularly many of them
Petty larceny wasn't really my game except a bit in video games. NetHack and the old doggy shoplifting...
(NetHack has a feature where the character's pet(s) can pick up items from shops and not be charged if they exit with said items – and they can be trained to do this more consistently)
 
Axoren
Axoren
It's really hard to balance being a law-breaking Rogue in games now. Because if you do it too often, you put a strain on party ethics, risk the party's reputation, and risk getting arrested/worse. You end up being a liability for everyone at the table when the worst that can happen to you is that you need to reroll a character.
It's pretty hard to balance player stake in their characters now.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@Axoren The assumption that the rest of the party is always good, and that the rogue has to "play nice" has always been a weird concept to me
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:44 PM
@BaconyRevanant For our tables, it's usually an even split, but it's usually a clash of principles.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Axoren That's definitely true. I mean even in groups where someone a bit shady is okay, the old "I stop to shoplift" routine is almost universally hated at least in my bubble for overtaking the session (or risking it)
 
Axoren
Axoren
Often, it's our evil characters that are against some of the evil deeds.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@kviiri But then it's not a question of in game party ethics, it's a question of derailing the session, which is an out-of-game issue which tends to be more irritating
@Axoren Even evil has standards dammit!
 
Axoren
Axoren
There was one time when our Evil Bard was recognized while we were in enemy territory, by a fan of theirs. We weren't made or anything, no one had reason to believe we were infiltrating and many we ran into thought we were invited. The Bard took the fan's autograph booklet and tore it up to get the fan out of their face.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BaconyRevanant Yeah sure, and it's not exactly a rogue-only or lawbreaking-only issue
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:47 PM
EVERYONE at the table was evil, but not everyone was HEARTLESS
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Well, there's also a difference between being Evil and being A Dick, which is the main reason that players having an evil alignment has such a stigma
 
kviiri
kviiri
Our DnD group was always talking about wanting to play an Evil campaign for a change but it never really materialized
We occasionally had a bit of talk about what it'd even be like, because the #1 wish was negative: "not just Good campaign in reverse"
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Evil people can do non-evil stuff, and good people can still be dicks, unfortunately, most people play it as "evil people are dicks and good people are not"
 
Axoren
Axoren
How old is Dungeon of the Madmage? It's it still spoiler content?
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Couple years at least
November 2018
2.5 years
 
Axoren
Axoren
12:51 PM
Because one of my evil characters was a Warlock of the Sun whose ultimate goal was to ensure the Sun eventually envelopes the planet. To that end, I needed to ensure the death of the Mad Mage, as he was one of the only people that could ever avert that event in the future.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Although I think as a general rule we try to avoid talking about anything specific in any adventures, except maybe the really really old ones
 
Axoren
Axoren
So, my goal was in-line with what a good party would want to do to the Mad Mage, but I'd be willing to Lie, Cheat, Steal, Kill, The Whole Toolkit to do it.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@Axoren That's a very... specific goal. I imagine most of the gods would also have some means to put a stop to it, so good luck with that
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BaconyRevanant They've got bigger issues to deal with than an event that will take place in the distant million-year future.
 
 
2 hours later…
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
2:44 PM
Yeah, no I meant that in order for that event to occur, the gods are going to need to be out of the picture. While it's true that this theoretical event might occur in a millions of years future, the gods are (mostly) ageless, and will around to stop it
Also, does anyone know what actually happened with Odo? I know there was some weirdness going on last week with a bunch of bounties being given out that was suspicious, but I can't seem to find them by searching for users. Did they decide to leave the site?
As a side note related to using User Search, @ThomasMarkov has apparently made more edits than @V2Blast this year, a fact that I find quite surprising.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@BaconyRevanant Really?
Odo's user id is user60913 if you want to play detective
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
291 edits to 195 edits this year
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
How'd you find that
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
how bout that.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
2:54 PM
Yup
We also apparently have a user called gnat that has made over 1000 votes this year alone, but has never posted.
Over 23K all-time votes
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Behind only Korvin
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Yeah
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
NathanS: Last seen Oct 13 '20 at 22:33
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Apparently, you've earned the most rep this year by almost double the second place
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@BaconyRevanant I remember years like... no, wait, Miniman always edged me out =)
It is strange to note that @NautArch and @KorvinStarmast and I all joined basically the same summer.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
3:03 PM
@nitsua60 Your post about "official rules" could use an update explaining the Sage Advice Compendium, methinks.
The information about the nature of Crawford's twitter rulings is out of date, I believe.
 
bobble
bobble
@BaconyRevanant pshaw, that's nothing. How 'bout 625 edits this year? (On Puzzling)
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@bobble >_>
 
bobble
bobble
It took me under 300 days to become top 3 all-time editor on Puzzling :)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
nice
 
bobble
bobble
Also, where did my life go?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:08 PM
coming from here that sounds a little concerning
but i guess there genuinely may not be a huge amount of editing to do there
 
bobble
bobble
A lot of old posts have the wrong tags or grammar, and I get the distinct impression that if I wasn't fixing up the new ones that some would just slip by.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@bobble for a while i was the second most proliferous editor here (until V2Blast zoomed to position 1) and it kinda just happened by accident since i was enjoying making changes
 
bobble
bobble
Part of the problem is some people get touchy if you change their puzzle, and sometimes the specific wording is genuinely important and can't be messed with too much. So less grammar edits happen than should. And then tags aren't always obvious until something is solved. It's a problem that only really shows up on Puzzling.
 
MikeQ
MikeQ
Puzzling SE has very different standards than RPG SE. There's generally no need for frame challenges, and the typical close reasons don't apply because most of the questions are intended to be confusing. And editing questions risks breaking the original puzzle as the author intended, so most edits are for formatting and tagging.
 
bobble
bobble
The closest thing we get to "frame challenges" are answers that prove a puzzle is unsolvable or doesn't have a unique solution. (Grid-deductions, basically)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:17 PM
i imagine also there's no big imperative to clean up peoples' answers; answers are answers
not like they'll be used as a future reference source
 
bobble
bobble
We have some people who are big on "EVERYTHING MUST BE SPOILERED YAAAH" to the point of editing a terrible answer in LQP just to add spoilers
 
MikeQ
MikeQ
Sometimes duplicate answers get downvoted or receive comments pointing out that the same answer has already been submitted. But duplicate questions are rare.
 
bobble
bobble
But then people will insist that their answer is special and adds something to the other one, even just wording-wise
Oh, we get duplicates. I've closed many. Usually old chestnuts, someone got a puzzle from a friend and posted it without searching. It's harder to search Puzzling than most sites, unfortunately, especially with spoilers and all.
 
Mithical
Mithical
@doppelgreener *blasted to first position
 
bobble
bobble
A few of the headers are broken in this meta answer; there must be spaces after # for headers to render properly
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:38 PM
@bobble will fix
fix'd
 
bobble
bobble
:)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 I don't think I realized Korvin joined the same time. I remember you starting up around then and also Rubiks coming shortly after.
Whatever happened to that guy? I miss him.
 
Carcer
Carcer
moose?
 
NautArch
NautArch
That's the one!
 
Carcer
Carcer
still stacking as of a couple of weeks ago according to activity profile
but kind of fallen out of chat I guess.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:54 PM
@ThomasMarkov (Oh, God, that post. One of my few regrets around here....) What do you suggest? It says all over the place that Crawford tweets aren't official--isn't that the latest stance?
 
Carcer
Carcer
seen infrequent but recent discord activity from him so he's not dead at least.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 As an ex-mod, is there something about mod activities that ends up resulting in less 'normal' site activity? Because that seems like a trend.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@NautArch We can always try the R͓͖̭i͚̤̘̥̦̺̥t̡͔̱͇̯͚̦ͅu̢̥͙̞a̸͎̘̣̫ḻ͇ ̛o̶f ̤S̪͍u̟̗̝͈m̡ḿ̤̼̰̖͕̮̩o͕̰̠̠̮ṉ̪͈̯̥̰i̺͓͖n̛g͏̫̩̝̺͉ͅ ̦̤͔̻͞t͇̩̀h̥̥͔͔̗̤̀e͚͔͇ ̦̞͍͍̮͞Ḁ̜͍̭̩͈n̜͇̟̙c̰͈̝̫͟i̸̩̲̣e̮͕̮̱͙͕ń̜̞̞t̛̳̯̱̲s̥͔
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch For me (personally) it wasn't so much ex-modship, it was pandemic --> no gaming in my life --> home-schooling kids --> other hobbies actually thriving during lockdown --> oh, gosh, it's been, like, months since I've even said 'hi' to people.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 I mean being a mod often means less 'normal' activity. Someone_evil seems to be the exception.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:59 PM
Then something psychological happened a few weeks ago when I got my vaccine and I'm stopping by and editing things and (gasp!) answering a question, rather than just stopping by because I feel like I'm delinquent.
@NautArch Oh, you mean during modship?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 yes yes!
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
If anyone's up for some editing, this question seems to end in a non-sequitur:
2
Q: Does lead blades work with thrown melee weapons?

FeringDoes the spell lead blades work on melee weapons that are being thrown? Does the damage increase still function from the throw? So throwing axes, are both a melee weapon but one that can also be thrown.

spells pathfinder-1e throwing-things
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Yeah, I think so. For me it was that an hour or two a day around the Stack (distributed across a couple of check-ins and maybe a sit-down) was what fit into my life, and when moderating some good portion of that time was on behind-the-scenes stuff, so my visible activity definitely dropped.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
it's mentioning throwing axes but it's just ... putting that sentence there without doing anything with it
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@doppelgreener, of course, kept right up with editing everything in sight =)
(Much to all of our benefit.)
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
4:01 PM
@nitsua60 reads to me like it says Crawford’s tweets are kind of official. I don’t mind trying to work something in there, wanted to check in with you first.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 That makes sense. You have a certain amount of time you spend, and if the mod activities use it, well, that's it.
DId you know that going in to modship?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@ThomasMarkov Absolutely--hack away. I certainly wouldn't want to come off as endorsing Crawford tweets. If anything, I posted that partially to have a place to say "dudes, that's just a dev tweeting, chill out." But I may have bent too far backward and given the opposite impression, it sounds.
@NautArch Yes and no.
There's some stuff--handling flags, answering questions--that was pretty predictable going in.
I didn't appreciate how the mods having an inbox notification on every meta posted would nudge me toward even more meta interaction. (That's one of the things I really miss, actually, and I've upvoted various meta.SE proposals to have that available to more than just mods.)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 i scaled down a bit, for fear i was not leaving room for other community members to grow into the editing habit. (and boy howdy one of them did)
@NautArch that's pretty much what happened to me too, and lead to me scaling down chat participation
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
The unexpected time-sinks for me were things like the hours of digging back through things that can go into crafting a good mod- or suspension-message: you really want to make sure you have your facts straight there, rather than just rushing to get something out the door. (And the interface helps with that, since it's rate-limited.)

I also drifted over to engaging more on meta.SE and in the Teacher's Lounge from time to time--that felt like a thing that not all mods should feel the need to do, but that it's probably good for a site if at least one is involved with the larger Network.
Then there are the "mod-projects," as I think of them. When we'd say "hey, we should gather together some thoughts for a meta on X," or "let's discuss a position on this issue." Our particular teams (I'm thinking mxy-SSD-greener-me and then greener-me-v2-moose) took more of the "each mod should feel free to post individually" approach to big metas than some past teams had done, but we still discussed them behind the scenes quite a bit, both before and after posting.
Lastly, there's black swans like this (trigger warning: discussion of self-harm), which (in my case) tended to sideline me for a couple of days. On at least two occasions I had to say to the other mods "I need to get my feet back under me, play with my kids out in the sunshine, and re-collect myself before I want to see that color palette again."
Sorry: that-all may have been more than you were asking!
@doppelgreener For me chat here was a necessary touchstone during those years. I tried to be aware I was blue and should double-check wording to make sure I wasn't scaring off a newer user, but I did feel like I could trust the many people I thanked in my resignation to give me a dope-slap if I needed it. And I thought it'd be good for anyone else to see that happen =)
Chat elsewhere on the Network was work; this was home =)
 
NautArch
NautArch
4:34 PM
@nitsua60 No, this is all good! I actually think a clearer depiction of what being a mod means would be helpful for anyone considering.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Time for a "what does a mod do?" meta?
 
bobble
bobble
A few other sites already have, e.g. workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/q/6553
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
Might be a nice addition to the FAQ/companion to the "year in moderation" and "community check-in" posts.
@bobble that's a good resource, thanks =)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@nitsua60 that'd be a hard question for me to answer, in the order of "what does a user do?"
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@nitsua60 Our last community check in was 2019.
Two years ago this month, in fact.
 
Mithical
Mithical
4:37 PM
@bobble (Or Puzzling.)
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@ThomasMarkov Yeah, it's around April (after I've finished my taxes) that I usually got that "we should do a check-in" itch. Last April was... different.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
I mentioned back in october that we didnt have a community check in for 2020 and was told "it's on our radar"
 
bobble
bobble
@Mithical ah, saw that a while back but TWP's one was quicker to find
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
@ThomasMarkov FWIW it was, just capacity for that kind of mod project has been a bit low (no points for guessing why).
But I'mma write one up now, becuase I'm annoyed with myself for having let it slip for this long
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
"Were you or your spouse a resident of American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, or the Northern Mariana Islands in 2020? [ ] YES (This is uncommon.) [ ] NO."
Not sure they needed that shade thrown, IRS....
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
4:49 PM
@Someone_Evil Seems like you could just stick on the end of it "and we're gonna be slow about implementing necessary changes" or some such. Slowly working on it piecemeal is better than not having that info, methinks.
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
@ThomasMarkov Not entirely sure I'm following you
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Someone_Evil Oh, then maybe I'm the one not following lol
I don't know what kind of work goes in to the "How's the community doing" post.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Someone_Evil awwww well if it's worth no points :(
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
5:10 PM
There, posted. Now if there aren't any glaring oopsies I made, Imma go roll out some pasta if noone minds
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Oh, what sort of pasta? noodles? ravioli?
 
bobble
bobble
ravioli, mmm
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
Generally just cut tagliatelle :)
 
The Oracle
The Oracle
5:23 PM
2
Q: How is the community doing? [2021]

Someone_EvilOk, no points for guessing why last year's slipped, but we'd like to get back do doing this. We, the elected moderators, wanted to take a minute to check in and see how the community feels like things are going on the site. This community check-in has been done for the last three years (ignoring ...

discussion community-check-in
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
That's the one that's like fettuccini but wider, right?
Hey, does someone have a link to one of those questions about "what counts as entering a spells area?"
I want to use as a reference for another answer on why two abilities won't interact
 
bobble
bobble
 
Rand al'Thor
Rand al'Thor
@nitsua60 Hi sheep! :-) Long time no see!
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@bobble That's exactly what I wanted
 
bobble
bobble
Found using this search ([spells] [dnd-5e] enter area)
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
5:41 PM
neat
 
NautArch
NautArch
@BaconyRevanant I had thought the bigger issue was about targeting a space and not a creature.
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
@BaconyRevanant Narrower, apparently. but not sure where on the spectrum I end up. Haven't taken my calipers to it
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@NautArch Well, I'm not sure, because for a spell like Fireball, any creature in its area counts as a "target"
 
NautArch
NautArch
@BaconyRevanant Uh-oh. We're having the target talk. Time to walk the puppy.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@Someone_Evil Does the suffix -oli mean anything in Italian? It seems like most of their pasta ends in -oli, and one of the very first things on the list is bigoli, which is just big spaghetti XD
@NautArch Pics of dog pls
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
5:49 PM
@BaconyRevanant italian.se question?
 
Rand al'Thor
Rand al'Thor
-olo
== Italian == === Etymology === From Latin -olus, -ulus. === Pronunciation === IPA(key): /ˈɔ.lo/ === Suffix === -olo (plural -oli, feminine -ola) Used to form a diminutive of a masculine noun, indicating small size or youth. ‎figlio (“son”) + ‎-olo → ‎figliolo (“sonny”) ‎quercia (“oak”) + ‎-olo → ‎querciolo (“young oak”) Used to form an adjective expressing derivation from a root noun. ‎campagna (“countryside”) + ‎-olo → ‎campagnolo (“rural”) ‎montagna (“mountain”) + ‎-olo → ‎montagnolo (“highlander”) Used to form demonyms. ‎Spagna (“Spain”) + ‎-olo → ‎spagnolo (“Spanish”) (organic ...
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Oh, that's neat
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:11 PM
Just got her last week. 12 weeks old, 23lbs.
 
Carcer
Carcer
cute
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
I like that dog
( not that that's saying much, I like most dogs :p )
 
NautArch
NautArch
I like her, too!
Hound mix. Looks like some black and tan and some bluetick.
 
bobble
bobble
Still in the "little terror" phase?
 
NautArch
NautArch
Not quite sure what else
@bobble kinda/sorta. She's pretty chill.
But when she starts chewing, gotta find something for her.
Apparently, she loves hair. My short hair. My wife and daughter's long hair. My beard.
 
bobble
bobble
6:16 PM
To be fair, hair is delicious to chew on
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
6:32 PM
@bobble <_<
My mom has a puppy, she's only about 9 months old, nibbles on fingers, beards, hoodie pull strings, toes...
 
Helwar
Helwar
7:25 PM
I might be remembering poorly, but didnt the Unearthed Arcana version of the Circle of Wildfire used to give you the Fire Bolt cantrip?
 
MikeQ
MikeQ
> "At 2nd level, you learn the fire bolt cantrip." (source)
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
I think Ive got a question for the stack, but I want to make sure Im not just being really dumb
From the rules for activating a magic item:
> The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level
What does caster level mean here
 
MikeQ
MikeQ
@ThomasMarkov What game? Is that D&D 3.5/PF?
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@MikeQ See, that's why Im confused.
This is from D&D 5e
 
Helwar
Helwar
@MikeQ Yeah, the pdf, why didn't I think of that? I just went to DNDBeyond and couldn't check the UA since it's oficial now...No more fire bolt in the version in DNDB T_T
thank you
 
Carcer
Carcer
7:31 PM
caster level has meaning for cantrips, at least
since most of the damaging ones scale by the level of the caster
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Carcer ah, there it is.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Caster level is no longer a relevant feature in 5e, that's probably some old text that didn't get cleaned up properly
@Carcer Sort of, they go off of your total character level
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@BaconyRevanant Youre right.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
In older editions, Caster Level was your number of levels in a specific casting class
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Im gonna ask the question.
Want to avoid speculation/opinion/designer reasons
 
Carcer
Carcer
7:33 PM
@BaconyRevanant yeah, I know. But it's the only context in which the level of a spellcaster has any meaning in 5e, I think.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
So something like "What is "caster level" referring to in the rules for activating a magic item?"
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Actually, in regards to magic items, yeah, I can see that being used in that manner
I missed the bit where it was from magic items rules
that definitely makes sense then
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
And ask for a "mechanical why", so to speak. What mechanical outcomes are being restricted by the clause
 
Carcer
Carcer
I suspect it is definitely bad editing in the sense that it's using "caster level" like that's a defined term, which in 5e it is definitely not, and is probably a relic of old text
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Does that make sense to y'all?
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
7:35 PM
No, I can answer it right here
It's straight up because they want any "Wands of [cantrip]" to cast the cantrip at minimum power
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
I mean, dont you want to answer it for real fake internet points on the site?
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
meh
I could
I guess
 
Carcer
Carcer
you never know
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@BaconyRevanant Right, that's the kind of answer I dont want.
 
Carcer
Carcer
someone might dig up something
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
7:37 PM
I dont care what "they" wanted.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@ThomasMarkov True, that's technically speculation.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
I want to know what ambiguity is resolved, or what behavior is restricted by the clause.
 
Carcer
Carcer
it's time like these I wish dndbeyond's free text search wasn't quite so garbage
2
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Carcer I will never not star a message trashing DDB's search function.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
What it does, mechanically is force Cantrips to be cast as though the caster was level 1, so only 1d10 of damage from Firebolt, only 1 beam on Eldritch Blast, etc.
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
7:38 PM
Like, if this phrase did not appear in this rule, what could I do that I couldnt do before?
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@ThomasMarkov Cast Eldritch Blast from a wand for 4d10 damage
 
Carcer
Carcer
yeah, you could ask a question about what the actual mechanical consequences of that are
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Or what ambiguity would arise that would no longer be clarified
 
Carcer
Carcer
I'm willing to bet that the only actual consequence is that you don't get scaling cantrips
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
We'll see
 
Carcer
Carcer
7:39 PM
but I couldn't be 100% certain at this moment
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
As long as you're asking about the phrase "caster level" specifically, yeah, I suspect it's going to be just cantrips. There aren't any other spells that scale based on the casters level anymore. That was one of the BIG CHANGES™ they made for 5e
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
I cant think of a good way to ask the follow up
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
in older editions, (almost) all spells scaled directly with the level of the person casting them. Fireball did 1d6 damage per caster level, to a max of 10d6 damage. Grease lasted 1 minute per Caster level. Scorching Ray had a range of 100 feet + 10 feet per caster level
And so on
 
Carcer
Carcer
yeah
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
This edition eliminated all of that, except in the case of cantrips, which previously didn't scale in any way whatsoever
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
7:44 PM
Shapechange?
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Yes, but also no
 
Carcer
Carcer
heh
I think if you bastard-lawyer you would have to conclude that the text applies to shapechange as well
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Because regardless of the level you cast Shapechange at, it's effects are the same: turn yourself into a critter. The only thing that changes is what critters are an option, based on your level/CR, and would actually be unaffected by the "lowest possible caster level" bit
 
Carcer
Carcer
I mean, if the language applies to scaling cantrips it applies to shapechange too
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
the Polymorph line in general is weird like that
 
Carcer
Carcer
7:46 PM
the effects both depend on what level you are
polymorph specifically says "the level of the target"
but shapechange says "your level"
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Well, they sort of care about what level you are
@Carcer that's because you are the target. It functions identically to all other Polymorph spells
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Alright, question is up, let me know in comments if things need to be changed
 
Carcer
Carcer
you're doing this thing where you're trying to make a sensible ruling
I certainly wouldn't rule that the minimum possible caster level thing should be applied to shapechange cast via magic item
that's clearly not intended and would be daft
but I think if you read it strict RAW, it should
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
Well, it also doesn't make sense, because Shapechange doesn't quite work like that in the way Cantrips do
With cantrips, the explicitly say "if you are at least this level, do this thing instead of the normal thing"
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
So like, if the spell is 4th level, does that mean the lowest possible caster level is 7, since you have to be at least level 7 to have 4th level slots?
 
MikeQ
MikeQ
7:53 PM
I assume so, but that's based on logic from previous editions
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
And why does that matter at all?
 
Carcer
Carcer
because in previous editions this was meaningful and explicit
if you try to figure out what minimum caster level means in 5e you're working it all out from inference yourself
it feels pretty obvious to me that this is a case of bad editing and the text about that minimum caster level is a leftover from a version of the rules where that was actually a defined concept
recognisable precisely because that was the case in a previous edition
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Carcer See my edit to the question: it was added in an errata in 2018.
 
Carcer
Carcer
oh wow!
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
(which someone evil pointed out)
 
Carcer
Carcer
8:01 PM
sorry I didn't actually look at the question
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Carcer Yeah, your reasoning was making perfect sense until I saw that.
 
Carcer
Carcer
well
it's still bad writing at least
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
So to have a magic item casting a cantrip above the minimum level it would have to explicitly state something like "the spell is cast as though by a nth level caster" or some such.
tbh, if it only affects cantrips, it seems like it would have been way more clear to just add a sentence at the end "cantrips cast by magic items do not scale with character level".
 
Carcer
Carcer
yeah
cantrips are still the only thing that I can think are supposed to be affected by that rule
hm
ah
bards
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
hmm
Also, caster level is a poor way to say it for sure.
A Fighter 19/ Wizard 1 does 4d10 with a firebolt.
Is her caster level 20 or 1?
 
Carcer
Carcer
8:10 PM
minimum possible caster level is actually an interesting question because of bards
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
Because they can get find greater steed at 10th level?
 
Carcer
Carcer
basically because of magical secrets yes
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
And paladins dont get it till like 14th or something
 
Helwar
Helwar
Sorry I'm playing right now but have been reading you... Isn't "Character Level" what really matters to Cantrips?... Paladins gain lay on hands thingys per paladin level or monks gain ki per monk level, but I have never heard of "caster level" in 5e
 
Carcer
Carcer
some spells only exist on the lists of half-casters, so their minimum possible level would arguable be higher
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
8:13 PM
@Helwar That is the confusion lol
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Helwar yeah that's the problem - this rules text refers to a concept which doesn't actually exist anywhere else in 5e
 
Helwar
Helwar
hmm
 
Carcer
Carcer
but - since bards can learn spells off any list - that reduces the minimum possible CL again
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@Carcer They cannot learn encode thoughts though :P
 
Carcer
Carcer
but because magical secrets shows up only at certain levels...
there's gonna be a weird step graph of spell level against minimum possible level for some spells
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
8:14 PM
@Carcer If I'm following that logic correctly, you're not gonna like that earth genasi get pass without trace at 1st level
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Someone_Evil hah! Yeah
well no
I do like it because the badness of this rule's wording is amusing to me
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
I feel like it would be better overall for everyones sanity to just kinda ignore that little bit of text XD
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
I think the only other use of caster level is from monster spellcaster rules where there's a spellcaster level which is different from CR and used for eg. cantrips
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@Someone_Evil Oh, like the Archmage
> The archmage is an 18th-level Spellcaster.
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
> A monster with the Spellcasting class feature has a spellcaster level and spell slots, which it uses to cast its spells of 1st level and higher (as explained in the Player’s Handbook). The spellcaster level is also used for any cantrips included in the feature.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
8:20 PM
Huh, archmage is not considered a valid word by the systems spellcheck
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
9:06 PM
@Randal'Thor Yeah, it's been a... [redacted] year.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@ThomasMarkov Normally, I'd flag your comment as an answer in comments. But this is actually preferable for RTFBTM questions.
 
BESW
BESW
9:41 PM
@nitsua60 wat
@nitsua60 Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow joff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!
Cure The Monster--Beta by Naomi Norbez. a 3 player game
Help My Family Antisale by Evey "Filth Gnome" Lockhart. $110.56 for 19 games
Wanderhome (Full PDF) by Jay Dragon @ Possum Creek Games. A pastoral fantasy tabletop RPG about traveling animal-folk and the way they change with the seasons. Physical copy orders here.
 
bobble
bobble
@BESW the illustrations are adorable
 
BESW
BESW
Oh yes. And the text is so soft and careful.
(screenshot from the Wanderhome preview document)
 
bobble
bobble
9:59 PM
<3
 
Helwar
Helwar
ohh
so cute
 
BESW
BESW
I'll always be a little bitter that the Wanderhome Kickstarter was unnecessarily pitted against the Mnemonic Kickstarter by social media, and Mnemonic (a more challenging, innovative, industry-redefining project) wasn't going to win a popularity contest.
 
Helwar
Helwar
oooh
 
BESW
BESW
And it was a really condescending thing, too: people argued about which project was treating its marginalized creators better, without asking the creators, and instead assuming that situations in North America and South-East Asia were directly comparable by uninformed outsiders.
So people were caping for Wanderhome (already the project with a stronger generic appeal) because its budget was a North American budget while Mnemonic's was a (very generous) SEA budget.
I talked a bit yesterday about how the TRPG industry thinks of everything in terms of competition, and that taking local contexts into account when we make ethical decisions is so important? Yeah, this was a textbook example.
People assumed the two projects were competing with each other, and then chose sides without talking to the creators whose projects they were attacking. Because the way to get marginalized people paid more? Is NOT to do a social media campaign that risks their project's funding.
Happily Mnemonic did fund, but its inertia never recovered and it definitely missed out on stretch goals that would've meant more jobs for creators.
So, as much as I like Wanderhome, it's always got a bittersweet taste because its wild success came at a cruel and unnecessary price.
 
Helwar
Helwar
10:25 PM
If it's worth anything, I didn't know about mnemonic, I will check it out now :)
 
BESW
BESW
Aug 25 '20 at 2:28, by BESW
Dee Pennyway wrote a twitter thread about "stuff that Mnemonic does that DISRUPTS the tabletop industry."
Aug 24 '20 at 0:11, by BESW
Dee Pennyway wrote a twitter thread about "Why is Mnemonic anti-canon” and "why the anti-canon approach is important to me."
 
bobble
bobble
@BESW Twitter thread is blocked from me
 
BESW
BESW
Oooh, I see. Dee's gone followers-only recently.
Summary: Mnemonic was the first game setting that used community copies as a standard practice (and the KS campaign doubled down, as every pledge added at least one community copy); massively international team; a pricing plan that treated print editions as upgrades to digital editions, which made it more accessible to independent sellers;
 
bobble
bobble
define "community copy"?
 
BESW
BESW
no work-for-hire: creators retain rights to all their work (that's a MASSIVE spit in the eye to the industry standards; anti-canon principles that explicitly empower and support tables to make their own versions of the setting; and mechanics that treat combat as story rather than attrition.
@bobble Community copies are something that indie creators are using itch.io features to make happen: the basic idea is that there are free copies of the game that people can take, no questions asked, if paying the full price is a hardship. A common model is, every time someone buys the game at full price, the creator adds a free copy to the community pool.
 
trogdor
trogdor
10:37 PM
yeah
 
BESW
BESW
Some games also offer more expensive options to buy the game which don't give the purchaser any extra materials but even more free copies are added to the community pool.
 
trogdor
trogdor
it's pretty cool XD
 
BESW
BESW
Dee didn't invent community copies, but they are responsible for normalizing community copies in the itch.io TRPG creative community.
For example... here's Wanderhome's community copies:
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@BESW yeah, this anti-canon, setting-as-platform-vs-container philosophy is something that's always been lurking under the surface, but definitely deserves and needs explicit reinforcement
 
BESW
BESW
There's long been a tradition of "If you're too poor to buy my game, email me for a copy" among self-published gamers.
But I believe it was Matthew Balousek who first figured out how to use itch.io to automate the claiming, so that people didn't have to personally tell the creator "I am poor." Because that's a barrier a lot of people won't cross, in large part due to social shame.
@Shalvenay And support tools! One of my constant gripes with 5e's "the GM decides" attitude is that they don't provide any tools to help the GM do it.
 
random internet person
random internet person
10:47 PM
Hi
 
bobble
bobble
'ello!
 
random internet person
random internet person
Does anyone here play Warhammer 40000?
or am I in the wrong place?
 
BESW
BESW
You're on the right site, rpg.se is a place that answers questions about wh40k. I'm not sure anybody in this chat room right now plays it, though.
 
Helwar
Helwar
I sure don't, can't help
 
random internet person
random internet person
Ok, thanks for the help.
 
BESW
BESW
10:50 PM
I know at least one person who comes here semi-regularly does, but he's not here now.
 
BaconyRevanant
BaconyRevanant
@randominternetperson I have surface knowledge of 40K, and also a roommate that plays quite regularly, was there some specific reason that you ask?
 
Thomas Markov
Thomas Markov
@NautArch I know, it’s just unavoidable here. As written the question should be closed for needs details anyway, but the only way to ask about those details is to potentially answer the question that way.
 
NautArch
NautArch
And saying, "uh, have you reviewed the ToC of the rules?"
Isn't exactly nice
 
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