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12:03 AM
I'm curious. How often has anyone here seen campaigns or adventures, for the big systems like D&D or WoD or GURPS, that are set in one place or one town, especially the characters' home or home town? I mean, the standard idea that everyone knows is for the party to go off on a journey somewhere, out over the mountains or down into a dungeon.
Have asked this before but am asking it again as I see the people here this time seem to be more into D&D.
Actually saw a thread about this on the GURPS forum the other day, coincidentally, or at least about "bottle adventures" generally, not necessarily in a familiar place.
@A.B. One common approach for that is the Diablo style campaign, where there's a big dungeon under the town, and the PCs gradually descend and explore it, returning to the surface when needed.
Many of the Pathfinder modules (i.e., the ones that aren't 6-book Adventure Paths) are set in a single town or location, and exploration is geared toward buildings in the town or its immediate surroundings.
@MikeQ That's a sensible campaign structure for a lot of reasons and I wish there was more of it (that isn't Pathfinder)
12:18 AM
Yeah, I can't recommend Emerald Spire, even if it's an example of the Diablo-style campaign.
Kind of like Rogue (the computer game).
12:40 AM
I was interested because of the things BESW often says about community and all that and how it doesn't feature much in the standard type of RPG adventure, other than between the party members themselves to some extent. Not really quite the same thing, maybe, but I'd suspect that having it on that basis would at least allow you to get to know the central town a bit better. Going somewhere, smashing stuff up and leaving again is fun sometimes, but sometimes you want a change.
12:50 AM
I like Lost Mines of Phandelver for that reason.
Oh, is that like that? I've never played that.
Read the blurb for it occasionally, so I know roughly what it's about. That sounds promising, then.
There might be possibilities for an adventure where you're in a town and have to defend it from someone, or something. Anyone ever seen this done? Actually, I did read a very funny account of an adventure along those lines recently. ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2013/09/… .
@A.B. Well, the parts that I've played.
It's also a low-level adventure, so it makes more sense for the party to stick around a single small town.
That's true, the power level a Level 20 D&D character has most towns would probably be hoping they'd move on before they blew the town to smithereens! :-D
1:15 AM
@MikeQ Ptolus is like that. There's a mega dungeon under the city, and a mysterious spire rising above it. It originated as the setting for playtesting D&D 3e. They had a Kickstarter for the 5e version last year, and you can now preorder it.
1 hour later…
2:20 AM
@A.B. It's a big city rather than a small town, but Waterdeep: Dragon Heist (for D&D 5e) is entirely set within the city, and the characters could very well have grown up within the city too (though that's not required, as long as the players are willing to have them stay within the city for the duration of the adventure). There are some "dungeons" in the sewers under the city, though, so I'm not sure that's entirely meeting your spec.
The actual reason I popped in, though: Does anyone have handy a D&D 5e stat block for an ordinary duck? A major character in the campaign I'm DMing just got polymorphed into one near the end of last session, and it may end up being one for some time while in a combat situation, and while any specific stat is unlikely to really matter I think I may want to have some actual stats handy just in case.
If you can't find one, I'm sure the owl statblock will do in a pinch.
As the saying goes: If it has the approximate CR and hit points of a duck, then it's a duck.
Thanks, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. I figured there must be something close in the book somewhere.
just add a swim speed
yeah, i'd add a swim speed and probably remove stealth and darkvision
I'm not sure it really should have flyby, keen hearing/sight, or that big of a fly speed, but the more I think of it the more I realize I don't actually know a whole lot about ducks (despite living in an area where they're around)
2:29 AM
You could also use the stat block for a witch, because ducks and witches both float in water
@MikeQ Of course. That's exactly the kind of logic my group might use, too.
@A.B. Thunderspire Labyrinth tried to be about learning the complexities of a large and nuanced community, but it didn't really gel properly--partly because it was too beholden to the XP curve, so it had a lot of filler encounters which diluted the theme, but also because it needed to gate the power of the encounters in ways that artificially broke up the community effect.
The extra material in the magazines helped a little.
3:06 AM
@Peter Cooper Jr. @BESW Those both sound fun. I suppose that might be a difficulty with doing that in D&D, specifically. D&D characters become such completely different animals as they level up, from bandits with knives fighting giant rats to things that might easily be mistaken for gods, that it would be difficult for the same settings and people to stay relevant to them for long.
It's possible, but it requires a dramatic re-envisioning of how the environment around the characters responds to their power increases.
I once designed (but never got to run all the way through) an entire 1-to-20 campaign that took place on a single small island; a character could leave, but they left the story if they did.
It worked by having layers of secrecy. The obvious things you could do early on, were lower level. As you learned more and gained more trust and influence in the community, you gained access to higher-level opportunities.
So your investment in the local community was the key to finding higher level encounters.
@Peter Cooper Jr. A duck would actually have a higher flight speed than an owl, they're among the fastest birds in the world! That's why they named an express train after them.
@BESW That sounds like it could work. Did it go OK as far as you got?
Yeah, it was pretty good. And it showed me that there's actually a lot of potential for making things fuzzy and overlapping.
Like, it's totally cool for the level 3 PCs to attend the big birthday party bash and maybe pick up on the fact that something's a bit weird about the nobles, but the nobles are all so high level that the PCs won't figure out this time that the weird thing is, most them are secretly yuan-ti.
Or they can go hang out in the level 10 underground bar and rub elbows with the rat bartender who they may eventually discover is a musteval who can be a great ally if they decide to tackle the blasphemous things going on in the Temple of Wee Jas.
3:44 AM
Also, if you give them room to run away, it's okay to have well-telegraphed "This is too much for you" spaces they can technically access.
At one point the party was like "we shall delve into the deepest part of the swamp where all the zombies seem to be coming from!" and when the hills themselves started moving the party went "Noooope" and left.
Q: Does wearing a focus keep your hands free?

MikeSo the text for the Nature's Mantle in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything states: while wearing the cloak, you can use it as a focus for your druid and ranger spells." Other foci specify "while holding the focus. So does mean that by wearing it you do not need a hand free to access mundane material...

Haha, that does sound like a time to go noooope.
Makes perfect sense to have the high-level things, or some of them, already be there before the party's supposed to tackle them, as long as you do make it clear that that's how it's going to work in this game, so that they don't think that the thigs being there means that they're supposed to tackle them. From what I've heard, a lot of parties have an ingrained idea that if something's visible, that means you're supposed to fight it now.
4:06 AM
Yeah. But part of that is just... presenting things in a non-combat context.
Like attending a formal dance.
Where everybody's been peace-bonded.
And nobody's making threats or the like.
Still, yes, it's also important to be explicit about intentions and not trust our worldbuilding to communicate for us.
With some parties, you really would have to add all that, "formal dance" on its own would not make them not assume they're supposed to fight something :-D
Mind you, if they're like that, they're probably not interested in a game like that anyway.
And some of the high-level things are known but not yet available (rumors that you have to track down, or high-ranking officials who don't meet with common folk); other high-level things are hidden until the party's actions make the high-level thing seek THEM out.
There's a ton of ways to use hard or soft gates on levels. Personally, I've come to prefer systems that don't have "you get more numbers" as a major advancement mechanism, so these tools have been gathering rust for me.
Q: Do black puddings corrode slashing weapons

aquavitaeBlack puddings are immune to slashing damage, and the Corrosive Form trait states: ... Any nonmagical weapon made of metal or wood that hits the pudding corrodes. After dealing damage, the weapon takes a permanent and cumulative-1 penalty to damage rolls. ... The bit that confuses me is "after ...

4:27 AM
No Mice, No Meowsters! by trouser_mouse. A table-top role playing game where you all play cats, and mess with humans as they try to get things done!
Alyssa Visscher wrote a twitter thread about reasons to make the invisible social contract visible.
This is a very, very silly monster. :-D
> A table-top role playing game where you all play cats, and mess with humans as they try to get things done!
1 hour later…
5:41 AM
I have extremely mixed feelings about that "social contract" thread. On one hand, I agree with a lot of the things Ms Visscher said (like about how "inflexible" often means "has specific requirements that aren't the ones that are no bother because they're our requirements"). But, on the other hand, I would not go anywhere near a game that had that "contract". The things in it are all so vague and unquantifiable.
So if I'm understanding it right it's basically laying out a list of vague unquantifiable things you can be kicked from the game for not guessing correctly, such as giving out information about your character in a sufficiently "cool and interesting" way (cool and interesting to the other players, who you don't know and therefore have no idea what style interests them).
I suppose the problem there is that the contract she shows as an example is actually failing to do what she says was the point of it, by making certain things mandatory but not spelling out what they are! Also, now I've thought about it some more, that does seem a particularly demanding GM. Everybody is required to be on their RP game all the time. Or. if they're not, they've made it look in their "contract" as if they are.
6:09 AM
she's just giving an example contract though
the point is literally just to make it visible and understandable to everyone
which I think personally is a good idea
I don't think everyone needs it but this is clearly in service to the people who do
also that example contract isn't even hers I think? it's tweeted by a different account I don't know if they are associated
her point is that people shy away from the written contract but don't think twice about the unspoken one
which is a problem if you don't already know the unspoken one
I'm admittedly also not a fan of everything in that particular example contract at the start either but I don't think it's intended as the be all end all of contracts in this thread
I'm particularly not a fan of having your turn skipped if you take longer than 15 seconds to decide
I realize the game can take a long time but taking time to choose your action is relaxing at least to me
I also think really as a social contract goes this is quite long and full of expected behavior in game and not much,.. expected behavior at the table as people
also assuming role playing at all times is,... not my personal jam either
if I say something out of character I don't want to be steamrolled by the whole group thinking I said it in character
But yeah anyway I don't think her point is "oh this is a good contract" I think her point is "it's good to write the contract down"
Most specifically I think for people who are new to your particular group/contract and don't already know it and/or would have trouble figuring it out
Like even though I personally hate the 15sec to decide what you do on your turn thing
I think it's a good idea to make sure people know that up front and are ok with it before springing it on them
In essence writing it down actually helps you change it if you don't like it, or barring that at least knowing what you are getting into and possibly at least giving you a chance to back out or brace for it even if changing it isn't an option
6:28 AM
I'd say that's not an "even though", it's an "especially". If you're going to have a rule like that, you should warn people straight away and not after play has started!
I'd hate that 15 second rule too. I think they must be aiming at really experienced players.
Probably yeah
Yes, I think the contract is by somebody else.
Yeah, she's not defending the contract, she's responding to people whose problem with the contract is that it's a contract at all.
Well I said even though basically because I don't object to other people using it as long as they are all good with that rule
Anyone who plays with that is fine as long as they don't also expect me to do it too
The problem with the contract is more that it's not doing what she said the advantage of contracts was. It's demanding various things that it doesn't spell out (admittedly they probably can't be spelled out).
@trogdor XD
6:31 AM
Yeah I find that contract rather wanting honestly
Which kind of supports her point.
I think it does support her point honestly
Although as an example contract I can see how the message could get muddled
It's long and it's got some relatively non-inclusive ideas in it
And not nearly as much about behavior as real people as it has about ingame policies
Which is the opposite of what my priorities would be really
Myself, I get antsy about the "social contract" terminology itself, because I feel like it makes the thing feel less flexible and adaptable than it usually should be.
I've seen "you didn't mention your trigger before the game so we won't remove it now" as an Actual Thing People Say. I suspect that "contract" wording enforces that kind of thinking.
Oh, that's ridiculous.
@BESW ok sure that's fair
but I think there's just as much of a problem set around people being inflexible about something and not making that clear before it comes up
6:44 AM
I've seen it in this chat. People have said that if you don't mention your lines and veils ahead of time then they can't REALLY be that bad, you had your chance and now it's unfair to expect the GM to change their plans mid-game.
Somebody (either the OP or somebody else) did mention in a reply that having it as a printed document on paper made it look rather non-negotiable, especially since it seemed to be drawn up one-sidedly by the DM without input from the players.
contract might not be the right word for it if we want to change how it works
That's why I appreciate games like Wanderhome which make it explicit that there should be an ongoing conversation about needs and goals which continues through the whole game.
but it does kinda describe what some people already do so I can see the temptation to use it at least
Well, those people are misinformed, you often don't think of things until they come up but they are nevertheless really serious problems. Some things are so abstract that they're hard to think of until you see it happen in practice.
6:46 AM
A pre-made list of prompts can be useful for reminding us of things that are important but we wouldn't necessarily think of on our own; I don't exactly keep a list of my squicks in the foremost part of my brain all the time.
it hasn't happened so much in TTRPG's but I have been blindsided by "social contracts" in plenty of other ways an uncountable number of times
But framing it as a contract, rather than a conversation prompt or calibration tool, invites weirdness.
but yeah the fact that they wrote it down as a set of rules put forth by the DM with no player input and seemingly little to no flexibility is,.. definitely a problem in and of itself
Like the person who invented the Luxton System. They actually didn't realise until after several games that the thing that was unnerving them was people saying that something never happened. So if that kind of thing can happen, what price being able to name all your triggers from memory before the first game? Having a list of common ones is probably a good idea. There's still the possibility that someone will have an uncommon one, but it cuts down the odds.
(I never think of "insects" because I don't mind photos of insects, to the point where I have a hard time believing that people are serious when they say that those should be put in spoiler tags in chat, but apparently a lot of people do have this, to the point where many of them think that it's "obvious" that this "would squick people out". So that would be one I would make a note of if I was making a list of triggers to ask people about.)
I've also seen GMs say "I can't ask about triggers because that would spoil the surprise I'm planning." We've got at least one mainsite question about that.
6:58 AM
I seem to remember that question, or a question about that. I think one answer somebody put forward was to put forward a list of things, not all of which will happen.
anyway I do agree that this particular contract isn't exactly representative of what she is talking about, but I also have to back up what she's saying on principle
not knowing the expectations at the table and not having any reasonable tools to guess or converse about them is an easily ignorable problem from the outside, or possibly the inside (IE people already cemented into a group dynamic that don't understand fully someone who doesn't already know it)
The pre-made list of prompts would solve that one neatly, I think. It's really only a problem if you only ask about triggers when you're planning something particularly alarming, rather than as standard - which has the other disadvantage that it leaves you open to things that you didn't think were alarming but one of your players does, like spiders.
And the best way to handle that, is gonna have to vary from group to group depending on needs from individual to cultural.
7:04 AM
But mentioning stuff rather than assuming it is probably a good start.
@BESW this is true
I've seen Google Forms checklists that let people submit their lines and veils anonymously, with both a checklist of common ones and space for custom ones.
Oh, that would be good if you had an embarrassing one.
Or if you have an issue with calling attention to yourself, whether because of culture or trauma or pure preference.
7:06 AM
Somebody made a good point in the Twitter thread that this arises more often than ever now that online gaming is a big thing, and people are often in the position of catering for a group of strangers whose tastes and possibly nationalities they don't know and whose expressions they can't even see.
I can get behind making that kind of thing anonymous
A group of people you know well is one thing, but when it's strangers you have to do it by numbers a bit more.
for some it might be hard to even talk about that kind of thing with people they know though
sometimes I feel fully capable of doing that and sometimes I don't
There are things it didn't even occur to me I could ask to handle a certain way until I saw other people doing it.
yeah that's my point really
I like that the post brings up the issue of not making things that you think are obvious explicitly laid out
7:23 AM
@trogdor There's value in that, yeah. It's just that presenting those things as a prepared "contract" is a pretty firm signal that you're not interested in negotiating.
I don't disagree with that
and framing it with "I have ADHD/autism so I must do it this way", more so
mm I see that more as pointing out something that she does need that she doesn't feel people always consider
but I do think there are possibly better ways to say it or even get what she wants without implying a rigid inflexible rulset
and also that some groups will have a rigid inflexible set of rules and only bring them up after you've stepped in them
I haven't had to deal with a lot of that myself but it would be incredibly frustrating
and I have had to deal with that kind of thing outside of TTRPG games plenty
I am autistic myself, and while I don't think the post is necessarily perfect by any means I do think it highlights an issue with people not being accommodating enough in certain social situations, especially since TTRPG groups can sometimes be rather insular with predefined dynamics and soft/hard rules that aren't readily apparent to outsiders
I can only assume she's coming from a place of having had to deal with that kind of thing a lot
The frustration at having invisible inexplicable rules that will anger the group if you violate them, yes, I get that
likes "The Big Bang Theory".
7:42 AM
oof I doubt I could ever watch that but you do you
8:04 AM
Q: Variant: Scroll Mishaps - how and why?

OmortisOn pg. 140 of the Dungeon Master's Guide there is a sidebar for handling scroll mishaps. It states: A creature who tries and fails to cast a spell from a spell scroll must make a DC 10 Intelligence saving throw. While interesting, it leaves a question wide open: how (or why) would a creature fa...

5 hours later…
1:11 PM
Q: What would be the ramifications of allowing a Wild Magic Sorcerer's Bend Luck ability to scale with level?

YvihsI was wondering why a Wild Magic Sorcerer's Bend Luck ability is always 2 sorcery points and a reaction to increase or reduce another creature's attack roll, ability check or saving throw by 1d4. I think it's pretty wild (pun intended) that is does not scale with levels considering there's anothe...

Argh, don't we have a third party publishing tag?
Q: Should we get rid of [3pp]?

doppelgreenerThird party publishers themselves are awesome, so their existence isn't in question. Rather, I'm wondering about the 3pp tag. Ostensibly it's meant to indicate the question's referencing third party material, but it barely gets used (6 questions since its creation in February this year). we ha...

Casualties of fire.
1:32 PM
Though now I started thinking: aren't most (or at least very very many) crunchy tags meta-tags? For example, [multi-classing] is notionally for questions about, well, multiclassing. But it can't meaningfully stand on its own without a system-and-edition tag because it means very different things depending on system/edition. Something like [sorcerer] is even more radically different in meaning between D&D and MtA.
1:48 PM
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica but the games do both have that feature, right? More than one tag is often needed.
yeah, I can think of tags which are non-specific without another tag for context but I don't think that makes it a meta-tag
And the question isn't about third party publishing, the question contains third party publishing.
So we know what 3rd party publishing is
And we know what 1st partuy publishing is
What is 2nd party publishing?
Things that you published
Is that where Wizards publishes unofficial material? Like some of their MtG setting stuff?
1:56 PM
1st party is me
third party is someone else
second is you
> If the tag canโ€™t work as the only tag on a question, itโ€™s probably a meta-tag. Every tag you use should be able to work, more or less, as the only tag on a question.
It seems to be impossible to just have a single question tagged 'sorcerer' (and no other tags). And if one were to leave such a question with one tag, the tag would still effectively give zero information (since it can mean outright opposite things depending on the system).
it follows the "first person, second person, third person" rules
so second person is the person I'm currently addressing.
@ThomasMarkov First person to tell Waki to go Hexblade gets put on my naughty list.
But Hexblade is so nice
2:13 PM
Even though my bard did dip warlock (pre-hexblade)
But that really was because my build was someone who didn't wear armor or carry weapons.
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I agree; since it has application in numerous systems, a system tag would be a necessary companion.
@KorvinStarmast I did upvote your ain't broke answer :)
@NautArch wait, which one was that? Shove?
@ThomasMarkov "second party" publishing would be something published by the second party in the transaction, the purchaser. Since this doesn't make sense it's often been repurposed as a term for "halfway between first and third-party" - studios outside a publisher working with the publisher's material under license.
Q: Is the Only-Tag Test for meta-tag-ness broken here?

SevenSidedDieWe've talked about meta tags a lot here. One thing that the last round highlighted is that we have a lot of tags that are impossible to use without a system tag. It's been said that tags like spells or rules-as-written maybe shouldn't exist because they can't be the only tag on a question. Perhap...

2:19 PM
@KorvinStarmast About the 3pp tag. ALthough I also agree that it's an unnecessary tag :)
We concluded a tag passes the only-tag test on here if it can be the only tag on a question in addition to a system tag
Even moreso, I think that it's not 'saying' what we want it to say. I'd think a 3pp tag is a question about third party publishing, not that the content is from a third party.
@doppelgreener Ah. So already addressed, though conclusion seems slightly 'exceptionist'.
It's a pretty standard conclusion, nothing remarkable or exceptionalist about it.
as mxy mentioned, even SO has to do something similar to manage.
@NautArch ah yes, that goes back a ways. I think KRyan raised an interesting point in his answer, but he also found the tag to be not worth saving.
2:27 PM
Exceptionalist in the sense of the conclusion being 'this one huge tag category counts as zero tags', as opposed to 'you know, maybe there is value in tags that cannot stand alone in general'.
that's not the conclusion, since system tags can stand on their own too
@nitsua60 Done, I think. I'm not sure the linked related question; rpg.stackexchange.com/q/165890/52137 deserves the same treatment, but it's awkward as it's my answer on that and the q is better about versioning itself (it also has way fewer views)
Also, obv if I mucked up anything about it tell me and I can fix it. Downside to the whole lock thing
@ThomasMarkov 2nd party is stuff published under license from the 1st party but not by the first party, IIRC
like the second party is distinct from the first party but has a direct licensing relationship with them
@Carcer This makes way more sense than stuff RevenantBacon publishes.
@doppelgreener System tags stand on their own, but they also were concluded not to contribute to the counter (in the sense that a question with a system tag and another tag is counted as a question with only the other tag for meta-counter-benchmarking purposes). As opposed to conclusion being that the example demonstrates that venn-diagramesque treatment of tags has merit overall.
2:36 PM
we simply concluded what you concluded earlier: lots of tags don't make sense on their own, but with the added context of a system they make total sense, therefore we shouldn't consider a tag to be a problem because it doesn't make sense independent of a system.
I guess I am having trouble conveying the difference between a narrower/exception-esque (actual) and a broader/general-principle-esque (hypothetical, and one I think has merit) conclusion. But based on how such similar discussions went so far, I'm inclined to stop trying at the moment.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (262): How does vampirism work in 5e? by Samuel Vam on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
2:57 PM
@NautArch I answered Waki's question.
@ThomasMarkov Nice analysis and presentation. I still wish he'd given stats in the question so that you could screen out the non eligible classes; but that led to a comprehensive answer ...
Yeah, I can't upvote until it's clear what OP's goals are.
but for now, it's ham, egg, and cheese time!
3:26 PM
Anyone played Deep Rock Galactic? I'm starting to really...dig...it.
Hey, cool, published by Coffee Stain Publishing love the company name.
Yeah, great publishing name. And when it loads, it's the sound of coffee dripping.
@NautArch Yeah, it's good. I like how the gameplay is structured to short missions, and players can team up regardless of level.
@MikeQ Yeah, the 4 footprint missions seem to talk about an hour.
I've done a couple solo runs and a couple missions with 2 friends.
Big fan of the Driller.
It's also funny how the devs took the "feature, not bug" approach with their physics engine, and purposely filled the lobby area with things that have wacky physics properties.
3:37 PM
The barrel game is tough!
@ThomasMarkov Weird. They jut want more spells. But not specific ones. I have no idea how that is helpful.
But to each their own!
@doppelgreener We really should switch over to the printed on tags or smoothly sewn in. That way people won't be poked by them and are less inclined to want to cut them off.
3:55 PM
I have played a lot of Deep Rock Galactic
though not in the recent updates
yeah, steam says 360 hours
rock and stone!
@Carcer The game is incredibly clever and addicting.
Which class do you play?
if I had to pick a main I'd probably say gunner, but I've gotten all of them promoted a couple of times
@Carcer What is "promoted"?
I keep seeing that, but don't understand it.
@GcL we spent so much on that "hovering in midair inconveniently" technology, it'd be a shame to not keep using it
when you get a class up to level 25, you can do a promotion assignment for them, which resets the class to level 1 so you can advance it again
is it 25?
I forget what the actual level is it's been a while
but either way once you max the level out a promotion resets the class level
4:01 PM
@doppelgreener I concur. VTOL is cool to watch.
@Carcer god dang!
that is significant.
it doesn't have any actual mechanical effect
on your unlocks and such
it used to but that made people sad
other than unlocking deep dives, the forge, etc.
4:02 PM
oh yes, promotion is required to unlock some features
but you don't lose anything by doing it, is what I meant
Which is fine that's it not yet. I'm still figuring out how to best use the explosives with the driller.
also promoting dwarves is required to keep advancing your overall miner level since that is based on overall experience earned and you stop earning experience with a class once it reaches max level
@NautArch I usually use them like a grenade when there's lots of enemies concentrated in one area. I've tried setting them in advance to be triggered later, but that requires a lot of team coordination and luck.
@MikeQ On solos I'll drop an explosive and then lure a bunch of them after me.
Harder to do that with the group
4:24 PM
I am really quite interested to understand why more spells is the goal.
4:44 PM
@NautArch If I may quote Iggy Pop: More is better
@KorvinStarmast turn it up to 11?
5:01 PM
@NautArch heh, different band, same idea. ๐Ÿ˜Ž
5:15 PM
@KorvinStarmast As I had said, not my build :)
6:15 PM
@NautArch My roomate just discovered this game yesterday. Also, I think it's on sale currently?
I remember seeing a "one of your wishlist items is on sale" notice pop up on my phone recently, and I think that game was the one
Has anyone run a D&D 5e game which includes an enemy that has the Talisman of Ultimate Evil? I'm interested in adding an antagonist like that to a game I'm running, but I haven't used a "destroyed when its last charge is used" item, nor an item with a hard-to-avoid instant-kill feature, on an enemy like that
I doubt any of the PCs would want to become able to use it, but tactically efficient use of such an item seems likely to annihilate PCs without much recourse, so it might not be worth including without plot devices to rein it in
@RevenantBacon yeah, it's a few bucks off. It's absolutely worth it :)
@Upper_Case Have not run a game of high enough level to find that a useful item to include.
@Upper_Case This is not an item you want your main villain to just have
This is an item that serves better as a "keep the villain from getting it" item
It's a "Save or be Removed From the Game" effect, with a minor boost to spellcasting tacked on
The best case scenario is he uses it once against a non-good player and it does nothing, in which case there's no point to him having it, worst case he uses it on everyone in the party, one after another, and they all fail their saves, ending your campaign right then and there
@RevenantBacon That's how I'm leaning. I've only got one good-aligned PC in that campaign, so it's an awkward thing for an enemy to have (at least with regard to that property). I'm thinking that a powerful enemy might have it, but only use that property to destroy an NPC in front of the party, or have it but not know about that property at all.
I'm putting together a set of plot strands that will draw the party to the Shadowfell, and having a few different avenues to make use of seems important. The talisman is just one, but I want to game it out more fully before putting that up as an option
6:30 PM
@KorvinStarmast That sneak attack question definitely looks like a dupe to me, can you give some details why you dont think so?
Anyone else can weigh in too, it looks like a dupe to me.
@ThomasMarkov No, that's 100% a dupe
@RevenantBacon Then VTC it, I didnt want to hammer it without at least a brief discussion and corroboration
nice, you vtc'd before I even sent the last message lol
Ya, I would have VTC'd the first time it got closed but was beaten to the punch
@Upper_Case At that point, don't even bother giving it to them, just give them a +2 wand or something
@NautArch @Upper_Case care to weigh in on the dupe thing?
@RevenantBacon It's a thematic connection, though in that case the thematic item can be anything at all. I think 86-ing it is probably a good decision
6:40 PM
@ThomasMarkov It seemed to me that the application of the shadow blade (spell) makes it a unique case, though it is certainly related to some of the other questions. Did it reopen due to the gold dupe unhammer? That wasn't my intention; I found it in the review queue and my only choice in there (since I felt that it needed an edit) was edit and reopen. Anyone with a gold dupe hammer who wants to, feel free to reclose. Not gonna die on a hill for that one
@ThomasMarkov They're ever so slightly different, as the Flame Tongue has a basic damage type plus an inherent extra, while the Shadow Blade has an inherent, unusual damage type (psychic) plus some spell effects. But I don't think that those differences affect the underlying rulings
There is a non-dupe question in there, but I don't know if it's what the querent wants to ask
@KorvinStarmast No, the question is still "Do I get to choose my damage type with the bonus damage from Sneak Attac?k"
As to answering the question, I prefer the KISS principle as a DM, such that if the weapon attack is the shadow blade, the sneak attack is the same as the shadow blade. His dragging green flame blade into it makes it a bit more munchkinny than I find useful in play. (see the related green flame blade (must be worth at least 1 SP) thing)
Going from "What if I use a Flame Tounge" to 'What if i use [other damage source]" doesn't change the question
@RevenantBacon I am not interested in arguing about this. Feel free to dupe hammer as you see fit.
6:43 PM
@KorvinStarmast That's a good approach tbh.
@KorvinStarmast We could argue all day about what's the worth of a level 1 spell slot though :p
(just kidding)
@RevenantBacon In my case, you'd be arguing with a non-present being. ๐Ÿคฃ
@RevenantBacon No need to argue.
> Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough in a city or town, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components).
@RevenantBacon Shadow blade is a 2nd level spell FWIW
@ThomasMarkov 35 GP for the Ceremony spell, Wedding. If only I'd gotten away that cheaply at my daughter's wedding ๐Ÿ˜ฅ
6:46 PM
@Someone_Evil It's worth 10-50 gp, catch up.
@ThomasMarkov You can't really have someone else cast shadow blade for you though, not usefully
@KorvinStarmast How much does a shadow blade spell scroll cost?
@Someone_Evil I don't know that that helps in this cae XD
@Someone_Evil I suggest a complicated, fussy, retroactive accounting: how much did the caster receive in total quest rewards (measured in gp) for that adventuring day, and how many of their actions in that day were done with (or could have been done with) the spell slot(s) used to cast SB?
If the opportunity-cost-weighted value in quest-day rewards are less than 1sp, then the magical enhancement is retroactively invalid and severe penalties are applied
Repeat for every day the combo is used, forever. I bet it won't take players long to not even dare to suggest it anymore!
@ThomasMarkov I should have that memorized, but since I have my own scheme in the Salt Marsh campaign, I don't want to answer with that value ...
@Upper_Case Brilliant! ๐Ÿ˜Ž
@ThomasMarkov For some reason, my memory of the DMG says 100 GP from the crafting thing, but I am not where my books are. And, of course, Xanathar's has a differing cost scale, so that may be different too
6:59 PM
XGtE suggests 1d6 x 50 gp for an uncommon spell scroll
It's 100-500gp per the DMG, so all higher than 1sp
50-300 XP, right, variable. thx
7:10 PM
@Upper_Case Odds are good that the value of that spell slot is going to be quite high. After all, the slot could have been used to cast a healing spell as easily as a combat spell, and what price could you put on your health? (Hint: it's a lot :p )
something something adventure, something something health insurance
1. Adventurer
2. Health Insurance
3. ?????
4. Profit!
@RevenantBacon Depends on the adventuring day! Unless I'm really pressing my players, they're pretty casual about their spell slots on most in-game days
@KorvinStarmast I'd totally offer health insurance to adventurers! Since a good night's sleep fixes nearly everything, payouts would be low. Life insurance for adventurers, on the other hand...
@KorvinStarmast I suspect most adventurers would have a rather high premium
@Someone_Evil Only if you use the DMG lingering effects rules ... long rest heals all ....
@Upper_Case Ahh, glad to see we're on the same page :)
7:15 PM
Nah, a Raise Dead spell only costs 500GP. All you have to do is determine the odds of a death per campaign. Since it's nearly impossible to die in 5e, this ones almost a guaranteed moneymaker!
Surely that only holds for the adventurers who are the center of a campaign, and most aren't
Yeah, but like most everything in D&D, the goings on of everyone who isn't a protagonist (read: PC) is basically handwaved
So everyone else is either immortal, or uninsurable
And in the rare cases that PC's fight someone else with the same life insurance, there's a "void if killed by another policy holder" clause
7:39 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer (162): Is the Moonbeam spell amazing, or are we doing it wrong? by pascal on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
anddddddd another question that was unprotected back in july gets spammed
8:26 PM
TBF that was maybe overzealous protection when it was done back in '15, but I sure aint unprotecting it now
Hmmmm, are they perhaps fishing for rules?
Q: Are there any Feats for / ways to use spears it that reflect it's dominance over shorter melee weapons

BrondahlSpear are wildly effective weapons, in small-ish Combat Groups. In particular, when used defensively, they can keep melee attackers at bay with no ability to retaliate relatively easily. You would, for example be able to hold a 5ft-wide bridge against a mass of opponents pretty easily if they wer...

What, spearfishing?
@Someone_Evil Maybe?
oh, I just got it
@AncientSwordRage If they wanted to pirate the text of the polearm master feat, this is one of the higher effort ways to do it.
Also the text can be found in several places throughout our site.
@ThomasMarkov true! I seems an unlikely way to do it, but it also seems like an obvious thing to find when looking in to spears
8:36 PM
Maybe they didnt even know feats existed.
@ThomasMarkov Well, the question is asking for feats (at least its title)
9:02 PM
This is an absolute gem
@ThomasMarkov I imagine that this'll be you in short order :p
@RevenantBacon Only if it is inflamed
LMAO nice pun
My three year old is at the point of coming up with explanations of her own anatomy and bodily functions. We try to reinforce proper vocabulary and good biology facts, but sometimes we just cant compete with the poop fairy.
9:07 PM
The poop fairy fights dirty
No kidding. She told me she pooped in her pull-up, and when I checked, she hadn't. I informed her she was fine, and she claimed the poop fairy stole her poop.
that logic checks out
9:24 PM
I mean, you can't prove that that didn't happen
@RevenantBacon Checkmate poop fairy deniers
Everyone knows they can cast Invisibility and Hide Scent at will
9:46 PM
Today I learned about Man of the Hole
10:07 PM
Q: Does the Thrown Weapon Fighting Style apply to ranged, improvised attacks?

Medix2The Thrown Weapon Fighting Style states: [...] In addition, when you hit with a ranged attack using a thrown weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll. My question is whether "a thrown weapon" means "a weapon with the thrown property" or "a weapon you have thrown". An example of something ...

10:26 PM
@RevenantBacon lol
11:10 PM
D&D 3.5e question: is there any metamagic that boosts fixed numbers, other than duration, within spells? (akin to how Maximize and Empower operate on spell dice rolls)
Not without homebrew. What justification do you have for why such a metamagic would exist?
@Shalvenay I don't believe something that generically affects nonvariable values, but Enlarge Spell exists for increasing range specifically
@Carcer yeah, this isn't range in the classical sense
@Powerdork well, I'm asking because I have a use for something that can operate in that way
The traditional solution is to research greater spell name.
@Powerdork basically, I suspect that trying to use the Reveal seed for epic-magic-based long-range casting is off-limits, and eye of power is already 9th circle but only permits up to 3rd circle casting
will look into that
11:17 PM
@Shalvenay sure, e.g. Widen Spell increases the area of effect or Enlarge Spell increases the range
Oh, epic magic? Hm.
@Powerdork uh, is that a spell? because all I'm getting is the entry for Greater <whatever> instead
11:32 PM
@Powerdork -- mind if I ping you on Discord?

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