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NautArch

2:32 AM

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Hot RPG Questions

4:31 AM

6

Q: Do players know if a hit from a monster is a critical hit?

There are a few different abilities that PCs can get where once they are hit with an attack they can decide to use to potentially turn the hit into a miss. Examples include the spell Shield or a Cavalier fighter's Warding Maneuver feature. The way our group currently plays all the DM's rolls are ...

Bardic Wizard

4:50 AM

I have a wierd question that I would like some guidance on

I was looking at this question, and I came up with what I think is a decent build, that would be relatively different from the ones already there.

However, it gets the same numeric result as @Someone_Evil ‘s answer to that same question. The build is different and I came up with it before reading the answers to the question, but I wanted to know if it is appropriate to post an answer that gets the same numeric result as another answer (which is less than the maximum value currently proposed) on optimization questions, if the build is different.

BESW

Sounds totally valid to me.

V2Blast

6:16 AM

Yep, that's fine. It's also possible, given these sorts of optimization questions, that someone might find a way to make your result even better by using a feature (or whatever) that works with your answer, but doesn't work with the other answer. So there's the potential for added benefit regardless.

kviiri

8:55 AM

Aww I had an answer almost ready to the now-closed question about killing your party :<

kviiri

9:15 AM

I usually don't want to maintain strong stances on closing questions but I think this is a bit extreme. A person shows up asking us if there's a way to cause a TPK in their DnD game without causing everyone to be angry about it. Yeah, it's a bit vague in some ways, but I'd rather answer that than risk the poor fellow wander off without their help and have to learn the consequences of epic plot twists the hard way.

I think "Yes, there is a way to do it with relative certainty: ask them beforehand. And if you're not comfortable asking it beforehand, then you probably know it's going to go wrong already." or something along those lines, less curtly though

Feel free to steal that when I'm working. :-)

Akixkisu

9:44 AM

@kviiri the trick is to abuse the mechanic by writing a token to delete, then undelet like all of the ancient users do ;)

kviiri

@Akixkisu Oh yeah I've heard of that but I don't really like abusing mechanics

Anyway I think the correct answer'd be that we tell the querent to ask those questions at their table

I mean, the questions we're asking them. (maybe not the "what edition are you playing" part)

AncientSwordRage

10:53 AM

@Akixkisu ancient users?

Thomas Markov

1:17 PM

ayyyy

RevenantBacon

beeeeee

Thomas Markov

Are Jack of All Trades and Remarkable Athlete the only features that allow you to add half your proficiency to an ability check?

RevenantBacon

They're the only ones I know of

Side note, does either count as having added your proficiency for the purposes of the other?

Thomas Markov

haha thats part of why im asking

Someone_Evil

I think so, there's a rule somewhere (SAC?) about only adding any part of your proficiency once to a roll

Thomas Markov

1:24 PM

> And Remarkable Athlete and Jack of All Trades don’t work with each other, since you can add your proficiency bonus, or any portion thereof, only once to a roll.

From the SAC

Someone_Evil

There you go :)

Thomas Markov

Do you add your proficiency to the ability check for counterspell?

You dont. hmmmm

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage the cummly folkx of yonder days ;)

The Oracle

0

Q: Are any of these 5e D&D questions about creatures attuning to and using magic items duplicates?

The following are all somewhat similar questions, some involving specific features that may or may not actually impact the answer to their question. Are any of them duplicates? Are there restrictions on who can attune to magical items with no prerequisite? Can an animal cast spells via a Ring...

discussion questions specific-question duplicates

Someone_Evil

There's some discussion around regarding counterspell as a lore bard, making it much more reliable than its normal form

Thomas Markov

1:32 PM

Yeah, Jack of All Trades makes counterspell significantly more powerful.

@Medix2 I'm not a graph theorist, but if I was, I would be better equipped to answer that question.

Someone_Evil

I think it's Peerless Skill that really pushes it, though glibness is also interesting (or decidedly not, depending on your point of view)

Thomas Markov

Glibness makes counterspell an auto success.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov that is crazy

I didn't realize it was auto success.

Thomas Markov

Assuming +4 to your spellcasting ability modifier

AncientSwordRage

Though a Feywanderer/Samurai could get +10 to the rolls easily I think? They just need access to counterspells

Thomas Markov

1:42 PM

Which you should have as a full caster at 15th level

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov yup

RevenantBacon

@Medix2 Going by the questions in the titles alone, I would strongly lean towards, yes, all of those can be considered dupes

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu so not I

I had always assumed that it was contested

Medix2

1:58 PM

@ThomasMarkov Abjuration Wizards and Bards (Jack of All Trades) do

Thomas Markov

Darn, abjuration wizard doesnt get it til 10th level.

BESW

Never cross a darn abjuration wizard; imagine never being able to mend your socks!

2

Medix2

Now I want a spell that does nothing but makes holes and cuts in objects that can't be removed by mending

Thomas Markov

I was hoping to allow a multiclass rogue to use reliable talent on counterspell.

Bardic Wizard

@Medix2 i think that’d be called Summon Young Child (I speak from experience as an older sibling whose obsession is yarn and has made several things ruined by younger siblings)

RevenantBacon

2:07 PM

@ThomasMarkov I think that technically works

Thomas Markov

No, nothing allows the rogue to add their proficiency bonus to the check

RevenantBacon

But there is something that allows a Bard to do so

Thomas Markov

No, only half proficiency.

RevenantBacon

Which still counts as adding your proficiency, right?

Thomas Markov

Can the rogue’s Reliable Talent feature be used in conjunction with Remarkable Athlete or Jack of All Trades?
No. Each of these features has a precondition for its use; Reliable Talent activates when you make an ability check that uses your proficiency bonus, whereas the other two features activate when you make an ability check that doesn’t use your proficiency bonus. In other words, a check that qualifies for Reliable Talent doesn’t qualify for Remarkable Athlete or Jack of All Trades. And Remarkable Athlete and Jack of All Trades don’t work with each other, since you can add your profici…

From the SAC

BESW

2:09 PM

Well that just puts me in a mind to start writing stunts.

RevenantBacon

See, I disagree with that interpretation, because you either are adding your proficiency, or you aren't

You can't be doing both simultaneously

Carcer

yeah it sort of contradicts itself

jack of all trades means the check is a check which uses your proficiency bonus

RevenantBacon

So either Jack of All trades and Remarkable Athlete work together, and not reliable talent, or they don't work together, but reliable talent works with both

Carcer

why can't they just write "we didn't intend these features to work together"

Medix2

*Insert Xanathar's simultaneity rule*

Bardic Wizard

2:12 PM

@BESW you still could, actually, technically. <yarn-geekery> Darning is considered one way of mending socks, but equally reliable methods exist: patches and reknitting are two that I can immediately come up with. Contrary to popular culture, darning only refers to using sewn straight stitches over a weak area of fabric for reinforcement or mending, not to all methods of fixing holes </yarn-geekery>

BESW

> Magical slimjim. Because I have a set of enchanted lockpicks, I can use Burglary to overcome magical obstacles and disarm magical effects.

RevenantBacon

@Carcer Because they have a hard time admitting mistakes. Or they want to have their cake and eat it too. Either way

Medix2

To me, if something happens "when X" and something happens "when not X", they shouldn't both happen

Mainly because I'd like to avoid the horrifying world of "If X, not X; If not X, X"

Carcer

@Medix2 but the function of the thing that happens when not X is to make X true

Medix2

@Carcer Which only works with one ordering

RevenantBacon

2:16 PM

@Medix2 That's my point. It's either [X], or it's not [X]. They want it to be both [X] and not [X] at the same time

Carcer

@Medix2 sure. But that's the ordering that's in question

Medix2

@RevenantBacon Pretty sure WotC explicitly said it's not both because both don't apply

RevenantBacon

And I'm saying that their explanation is fallacious

Medix2

@Carcer Well yes, but why choose one order over another? (Insert simultaneity rule)

@RevenantBacon Hardly the first time XD

*stares at Whirlwind Attack with ire*

Powerdork

Dungeon Masters have far too much weight on their shoulders.

Carcer

2:18 PM

well, nah, their justification there is that the general rule is that when you get to add your proficiency bonus to a check you only add it once even if multiple different features would let you add it

BESW

> Supernaturally quick-fingered. Because I stole a wizard's esoteric technique, once per scene while I am unseen, when someone creates a magical aspect I can replace the intended target with myself.

Medix2

@BESW I really like the idea that the Wizard no longer has that technique

BESW

[grin] I'm fond of characters that can steal abstracts and intangibles.

Carcer

so JoAT and RA don't get to work together because of the rule about only adding proficiency once, not because applying one invalidates the condition for the other

but it is really stretching to say all that and then "by the way, adding your proficiency bonus to this check doesn't actually count as adding your proficiency bonus to this check for this one other rule"

RevenantBacon

@Medix2 in thick New York accent Yeah, me an' my pal Jimmy Two-Fingers made 'im 'forget' how to use it. Ain't dat right, Jimmy?

BESW

2:21 PM

There's a game where one of the example characters can summon knives and is very good at using them. As you gain power (which is dangerous but usually inevitable) you learn to summon more kinds of knives... but you also learn to use the knives to greater effect. You can cut the tension in a room, or the connection between siblings.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW c.f. davriel from MTG, and the high level arcane trickster in d&d

Bardic Wizard

@BESW I was trying to come up with a good way to add this to the “darn abjuration wizard” above to get the Fox in Socks, but it’s too early for me to be able to come up with a logical connection

Medix2

@Carcer I think they'd just say "Well, you weren't adding your proficiency bonus but hmmmmmmmm yeah that's a good point. I missed that rather illogical bit

AncientSwordRage

@BESW treating metaphysics like physics is cool

One of the reasons I like demon (cod2)

Medix2

@BESW What's it called?

BESW

2:25 PM

Don't Rest Your Head. It's an interesting premise but shakily executed. The mechanics are a little too complex for their tone and effect, and the setting is a bit too self-conscious for the kind of free-flowing improvisation that it's supposed to be encouraging.

The companion book Don't Lose Your Mind is where the sample characters are found.

There's powers like "You can call a cab." At low levels it's just a weirdly lucky ability to always have a cab driving by when you need one, and the cabbie is helpfully chatty. Spend more dice on it and you can call a cab at the top of a building or in the middle of the desert, and the cabbie will tell you uncomfortable truths. Throw lots of dice and you can summon cabs as weapons, they'll take you to anywhere you can imagine, and the cabbie is liable to drop world-shattering secrets.

The game's a horror game, though, so standard content warnings for the body horror, ablism and sanism, phobias, etc., that come with uncritical jaunts into that genre.

Medix2

@BESW Is it able-istic in the sense that it assumes/requires that characters can move and maneuver as able-bodied people? Perhaps that and the following question aren't great questions for this chat... But how does a game bake sanism into its design when players can create any character they like?

If that ^ needs to be moved, please do move it

Carcer

2:41 PM

using various "madnesses" as a negative consequence of failure in the game is typical for the genre

Medix2

@Carcer Oh... :(

Carcer

likewise "mutations" - I'm not specifically familiar with DRYH but generally it's deviations from the physical and mental norm being framed as negative consequences and/or the result of malign influences

Medix2

@Carcer Ah gotcha, well... Time to go find a horror a game that doesn't do that

Carcer

I'd like to go to the shop to get some lunch but I can't because I'm waiting for sodding DHL to come collect a parcel and I can't risk being out when they get here

BESW

Eyup. It's a really common trope to use real-life disabilities as shorthand for corruption, villainy, and inhumanity.

Horror isn't the only genre which does this (look at James Bond's antagonists), but it's nigh ubiquitous in the kind of horror which TRPGs tend to draw inspiration from.

DRYH bakes it into the premise, which is that trauma-induced insomnia causes "madness" which grants reality-altering powers that can turn you into an inhuman monster.

This doesn't necessarily have to be awful, but the game isn't interested in putting in the work to be careful.

AncientSwordRage

2:54 PM

@BESW that's a shame

Medix2

@BESW Sounds like WORM which... I may now have to rethink the foundations of a campaign I'm in...

The whole universe is basically just trauma-induced superpowers

Carcer

ironic trauma-induced superpowers, no less.

BESW

Yeah, I'm wary of any setting/system that seems really into trauma, unless it's made with the intent of exploring that in a way that would be cathartic and empowering to players who have actually experienced trauma.

Otherwise it's, at best, misery tourism.

I'm in a game of Delta Green right now and gosh but that system thinks mental health is a playground for it to romp in.

There's some games which try to use the structures of Lovecraftian horror without indulging in the nastiness of it; Lovecraftesque comes to mind. And others which sort of accidentally make it easy to re-tool; Cthulhu Dark turns into Scooby Doo if you just change "sanity" or "insight" (depending on the edition) to "fear."

Carcer

I was about to say that Worm is superhero lit rather than an RPG setting but then I remembered the guy did also write an RPG to go with it

Medix2

@Carcer Very much fan made but the campaign I'm sorta in wasn't even using that. Just a more free flowing, rules-lite, story-heavy campaign

AncientSwordRage

3:01 PM

Printing something atm, and Oreos our black and white cat is going crazy.

If he could talk I suspect he'd be screaming "What black magic this?!"

BESW

But these days I'm in the market for games like Trophy Dark, We Forest Three, Sleepaway, or Locus, which avoid Lovecraftian influences altogether.

Carcer

@Medix2 wildbow definitely wrote at least some of weaverdice or whatever it's called, it's frequently referenced by the fanbase because of the descriptions of various types of trigger and power expression

Medix2

@Carcer Yup, that's true as well

BESW

Bluebeard's Bride is a good example of a horror game that doesn't draw on Lovecraftian inspiration and is designed to handle trauma respectfully.

Medix2

I guess now I get to either convince myself WORM isn't horrendous. Conclude that it is and stop associating with it. Or conclude that it's horrendous and associate with it regardless...

BESW

3:04 PM

Mar 31 '19 at 10:16, by BESW

Nothing is perfect in this world, and so it's not only okay but necessary to like imperfect things. I just advocate liking them critically, which means staring their flaws in the face without flinching.

Carcer

I mean Worm isn't intrinsically bad just because it's about people who have powers as (sort of) the result of trauma

Medix2

@BESW Writes down quote into quotebook

BESW

At the very least, I talk with my players about the kinds of problems I see in a game and make sure we're all on board with trying it anyway, and putting in place the necessary tools to make it easy to nope out to whatever extent we need at any time.

Carcer

and Ward's basically all about how all these kids really need some goshdarn therapy

BESW

@Medix2 Nobody outside your group can do the ethical calculus for you, y'all have to do it for yourselves because nobody else knows the value the game can provide to you.

eg, I'm disinclined to ever play any Wizards game again, but I know a lot of people who the games and company mistreat, but who have found ways to reclaim it in their spaces to dramatically improve their quality of life.

Bardic Wizard

3:13 PM

@BESW that’d be a good senior quote (except I’m not a senior yet, thank goodness)

BESW

@BardicWizard Hah!

My senior quote was "with friends like these, who needs fiction?"

(It helped that my surname put me at the very last entry.)

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I'd be interested in a lovecraftian game without the baggage. Might be impossible

BESW

@AncientSwordRage Check out Lovecraftesque. It does a good job of distilling down the pacing and atmosphere of a "typical" short Mythos horror story, while explicitly ditching the setting, lore, and themes--and including some essays about how and why it's doing that, and how to rebuild without them.

NautArch

o/

Medix2

@NautArch A gif today, I see

Bardic Wizard

3:20 PM

@BESW oof. I’ve got a friend who’s last name starts with a z and who’s birthday is in December and they joke all the time about being the last of the last, including one year where their picture was accidentally put with the grade below because there was one too many people in our grade that year to fit precisely on the page

NautArch

@Medix2 hehehe

Bardic Wizard

Also I finished a really good book this morning! It was called Gifts, by Ursula K. LeGuin, and it’s really good and really got me thinking

AncientSwordRage

@BESW what I like most about Lovecraft's stuff is the otherworldliness not necessarily the mutations

So only having the pacing and atmosphere might not scratch that itch

I'll check them all out though

Thomas Markov

@BardicWizard Have yoou read The Dispossessed?

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov no, never heard of it

Thomas Markov

3:26 PM

@BardicWizard Also LeGuin. Great novel.

kviiri

Worm was a nice read but it's kinda misery-porn in retrospect

..."kinda" is downplaying it a lot

Carcer

yeah... Wildbow isn't really big on nice things happening to his protagonists

Pact is unrelenting in that regard

RevenantBacon

LeGuin rings a bell, but for the life of me, i can't remember what book it was that I read by her

kviiri

Overall I guess my tastes have progressed away from grimdark since i read Worm, I probably wouldn't like it anymore

Or like it as much

Carcer

have you read Ward?

kviiri

3:32 PM

Na, I'm aware of its existence but after Worm I felt a bit drained reading-wise. That's actually a bit of a character problem with me, as much as I like reading I can't help treating it as a bit of a project.

Carcer

that's fair. Ward is also extremely long.

kviiri

Yeah, Worm is what like, the entire Harry Potter trilogy almost twice or something in terms of length

Carcer

1.6M words or something like that

kviiri

And after reading Worm, I was desperately trying to orient my reading energy towards something else. That being graph theory.

On the last week of writing my thesis paper, I got back to reading novels. I re-read Cat's Cradle and Bluebeard by Kurt Vonnegut, I liked the latter one much more than I remembered because it is in many ways uncharacteristically happy for Vonnegut. Now I'm reading the swashbuckler adventure novel classic, The Three Musketeers because I happened to have a copy handy

My copy is lovely because it doesn't stress about translating everything, instead it has footnotes explaining things like currencies and other units.

Carcer

Ward I read while it was being published so bingeing was impossible

kviiri

3:35 PM

I also recently binged SSSS again from the top (I have a love of re-reading things) but it's a different itch, being a graphic novel

or a comic, wherever one draws the line.

Carcer

also while participating in the fandom which does put a rather different lens on it

kviiri

Reading the Three Musketeers is painful in one way tho

...it makes me want to try running 7th Sea 2e again and I don't think I'd like it

I still have the book at hand: the guy who I borrowed it from hasn't asked for its return. I do remind him I still have it safe, about once a year :)

Bardic Wizard

(The reason finishing a book is noteworthy for me rn: it’s h*ck week [the week before finals, name coined by my best friend] so spare time is sharply limited around essays and tests and cramming for finals)

kviiri

Then there's also Lackadaisy but I can't really say I'm reading it a lot because they haven't been publishing new pages. I think the author is currently working on an animated project

I'd prefer the comic to continue, but it's obviously her decision on what to do with her time.

AncientSwordRage

3:58 PM

I'm two years (?) Into reading a book

Its not a long book

@kviiri I really struggle to reread stuff

Something in my brain shouts I've been here before sulk I DON'T WANNA sulk

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

kviiri

I guess a part of why I do like re-reading is that the second (and third etc) time no longer feels like a project

AncientSwordRage

4:16 PM

@kviiri ah I see

Where as rereading is always a "project" for me

Carcer

gotta break your own speed record

AncientSwordRage

@Carcer it's currently at 256 pages a day

kviiri

a power of two, how commendable

AncientSwordRage

It was a Pratchett novel, so practically cheating

TheDragonOfFlame

4:36 PM

@AncientSwordRage I can only reread books I love

AncientSwordRage

@TheDragonOfFlame hmmm. That might be me as well come to think of it

RevenantBacon

@TheDragonOfFlame I can't ever re-read books. I can't rewatch movies or tv shows either.

Bardic Wizard

@TheDragonOfFlame I can reread anything if I’m bored enough but I do tend towards certain books more than others

TheDragonOfFlame

Also I can only reread them after like at least a year passes in between

RevenantBacon

4:51 PM

I read Watership Down when I was like 14 or 15. I tried reading it again a year or two ago and I couldn't do it.

For reference, I'm now 28, so this was a roughly 12 year gap

Side note: I 100% recommend that book to anyone who hasn't read it. I 100% do not recommend the animated movie.

kviiri

Why not?

RevenantBacon

6:04 PM

The animated movie is bad. Like really, really bad.

kviiri

I've seen it and I don't recall it being bad

at least not double-really tier?

I'd be interested to hear your take on why

AncientSwordRage

6:28 PM

I've only read a few chapters of the book and seen a few bits of the series, and it seemed ok

I may be getting mixed up with animals of farthing wood though

kviiri

Farthing wood has a very memorable title music

Fun fact, the Finnish translation of the show translates as The Refugees of Farthing Wood and I think it's a very appropriate choice of words considering the content of the show

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri absolutely

Not sure if I ever watched all of that

kviiri

6:45 PM

I re-watched the first season with my SO

She loves films with dogs in them so she also asked me if I remember "that doggo film you talked about a while back, an old animation, you said it's violent?"

She was talking about Plague dogs.

Normally she was the type to cry when bad things happened to good dogs in films but Plague Dogs was a bit of an exception, I guess because it's so ludicrously grim it's hard to take it with the same kind of seriousness.

AncientSwordRage

7:28 PM

@kviiri awesome

Has she seen dog soldiers?

TheDragonOfFlame

@RevenantBacon wow

Thomas Markov

8:05 PM

@kviiri academia.stackexchange.com/questions/159594/…

That comment made me chuckle significantly.

kviiri

8:26 PM

@ThomasMarkov :D

Thomas Markov

@kviiri Did you have any stupid requests from reviewers for your thesis?

Bardic Wizard

I need emergency middle of the day hugs

blame my english teacher

but now I’m feeling self conscious and having a very very sudden bout of gender dysphoria and ugh

RevenantBacon

I offer my support in these trying times. Is this the same teacher you had issues with last time?

Bardic Wizard

Maybe? I think I mentioned what happened the last time I confronted her about gender stuff

but it was a bad idea to do so today even if it was fueled by a thousand tiny pinprick feelings every time pronouns were used for me multiplied by a class discussion with too much of the wrong pronouns

RevenantBacon

Yeah, it was like in the middle of class and she was... less than accommodating, if I recall

Ah, that's rough

Possible solution: Start referring to yourself, and insist that everyone else do so as well, in exclusively in the third person

/s

Bardic Wizard

8:43 PM

I have some awesome teachers and some less so, and most of them are usually fine, but when it’s already been a Day i can’t deal with pronoun stuff and little things like that bug me and then I try to fix it and then I make it worse by confronting teachers who I should know don’t take gender-non-conformity very well

@RevenantBacon that would be awkward but it actually might work...until I got in trouble for either fighting or backtalking

RevenantBacon

RevenantBacon thinks that BardicWizard should send in a formal complaint to the school board

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon yay me I’m at a private school

RevenantBacon

Alternatively, you could start doing it back to your teacher every time they do it to you. (not actually recommended, would likely be very bad, but would definitely get your point across)

Side note: I'm super vindictive, so my advice will probably not have the most optimal results

And maybe should be taken with a grain or three of salt

kviiri

9:02 PM

@ThomasMarkov Nope

kviiri

9:45 PM

I pretty much just submitted it

Powerdork

Sorry to hear about the gender thing. My heart is with you, @BardicWizard.

kviiri

Oh yeah, very much that ^

(I was taking a call earlier and only read my highlights)

TheDragonOfFlame

10:17 PM

@BardicWizard offers emergency hug

trogdor

@BardicWizard :( sorry that you are not having the best time right now

Bardic Wizard

10:50 PM

Thanks. I’m okay now I hope cause taking notes in my other classes made me focus on that and not on my unhappiness, but it is nice to know that other people are supportive and I feel less alone now

Hot RPG Questions

11:34 PM

12

Q: Does Divine Word's Killing Effect Come Before or After the Banishing Effect (For Fiends)

This question is stated right in the title. In this case, a cleric might cast Divine Word with a fiend with 20 or less HP in the area, and the fiend can hear the cleric. As we all know, if a fiend fails its save against Divine Word is banished to its home plane. However, all creatures with 20 HP ...

dnd-5e spells

trogdor

That's good at least

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