TRPG General Chat

5:01 PM

Oh, they're on all stat blocks. I would assume it's for the new Tasha's blocks, and it's once they have the tech they can just add it to all the other ones for convenience

Bardic Wizard

@doppelgreener dang it, I was hoping I was right and they made it worse

AncientSwordRage

5:22 PM

gets popcorn

puts feet up

Anything else interesting come out of Tasha's Cauldron?

Someone_Evil

The summon X spells are interesting. I particularly enjoy that the construct one opens: "You call forth the spirit of a construct."

AncientSwordRage

::blink blink::

Bardic Wizard

@Someone_Evil umm... how do you do that?

What is the “spirit of a construct”

Someone_Evil

@BardicWizard Binary Ouija board?

AncientSwordRage

@BardicWizard Golem Vodka

Pikalek

5:31 PM

At a glance, the environmental hazards seem better than previously expected.

I had hoped for that content to be more in depth - closer to the dread effects terrain from the 3e Heros of Horror. That said, there's more variety in Tasha's environmental hazards.

Someone_Evil

Oh, the DM guidance includes a section on Session Zero. Haven't fully looked through, but seems to cover a lot of important stuff. Better late than never

Pikalek

I felt let down by that section.

I agree better late than never & better something than nothing.

But I feel the piece Wizards put up by Orion Black had more actionable advice.

Huh, I just noticed that 2 of my pages didn't get cut properly - their joined for about 2 inches along the bottom.

Guess the warlock options are forbidden content - only those who might sunder tomes are worthy to read.

Bardic Wizard

6:01 PM

@Pikalek who would be so cruel as to do that?

The knowledge must stay lost for all ages! If it is read it will bring the catastrophic apocalypse of the book-defiling upon us!

We must keep that from happening!

RevenantBacon

@DavidCoffron I'm sorry, there's a feat that gives you an invocation??? Hello infinite castings Detect Magic, or as a rogue, being invisible in darkness whenever.

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon taps sign

3 hours ago, by KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron Tasha's: because we don't care about balance ... and we don't actually listen to the feedback on UA ... 😜

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage You don't gotta tell me that, I'll be the first one to point out that Wizards R&D is, to put it mildly, not very good at their job.

New get an invocation feat plus magic initiate turns literally anyone into a standard warlock. The entire class in two feats

Blast, Hex, Agonizing Blast invo, and a second cantrip for flavor. Boom, instant warlock

AncientSwordRage

6:19 PM

and thus the issue with warlocks

Someone_Evil

You can't take agonizing blast unless you're a warlock

> If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite.

RevenantBacon

Ah interesting. Because it requires you to know Blast, by extension you also need to be a warlock. Still a ridiculously powerful feat, but at least you don't get to multiclass full warlock for free

Someone_Evil

It probably makes taking one warlock level a lot better, if you just want one invocation and are willing to give up a feat instead of delaying the main class progression by a level

Thomas Markov

So take 1 level of hexblade and the feat.

BROKE

Someone_Evil

Which invocation to go with that?

Thomas Markov

6:30 PM

agonizing blast

maybe the mage armor one

As a bard the mage armor one would be nice

Someone_Evil

Using a feat to get mage armor at will isn't too far above using magic initiate to get it once per day and two(?) cantrips

RevenantBacon

The only ones who would take the Mage Armor one is Wizards or certain types of sorcerers, since every other class has proficiency in light or better armor, or some means of calculate AC with extra bonuses like Monk/Barb unarmored defense.

Plus yes, Magic Initiate is the same but better, since the spell lasts 8 hours, which is the typical duration of one adventuring day

It's basically the same as being able to cast it 3x per day, since you'd only ever need it more often than that if you get it dispelled somehow

Thomas Markov

Bladesinger extra attack would benefit from eldritch blast

RevenantBacon

On the other hand, if you wander into a Wild Magic zone and want to try and get some crazy effects to trigger

Thomas Markov

Alright, check this out.

RevenantBacon

6:36 PM

Oh my god

Wild Magic sorcerer with infinite level 1+ spellcasts

Someone_Evil

Detect magic at will is probably more relevant, though it has the ritual tag, and I've been toying with moving that to skill space anyway (for something D&D adjacent)

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon OH my.

RevenantBacon

Oohhhhh myyyyyyy

Someone_Evil

Uh oh

Thomas Markov

OH NO.

I guess it could have been done before anyway.

RevenantBacon

6:38 PM

Wizards R&D you've done it again

2

Someone_Evil

Though how much net positive is Wild Magic Surges

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil mostly harmless stuff and also fireballing yourself.

RevenantBacon

it's roughly 40% positive, 40% negative, 20% neutral

But the negatives aren't always negative for the sorcerer

Someone_Evil

Except Wild Magic and ToC only occur of sorcerer spells, and feat gained spells would presumably not be that

Thomas Markov

A bladesinger with 1 level of hexblade and crossbow expert could make 2 hand crossbow attacks and 4 eldritch blasts in one turn.

RevenantBacon

6:45 PM

I take that back, we have 21 good, 18 neutral, and 11 bad outcomes, although I'm not sure on one of the "good" ones

Someone_Evil

Bladesinger doesn't work with ranged, does it?

RevenantBacon

All of your "1 action" spells becoming "1 bonus action" for a minute could be actually bad, especially if you have things you actually wanted to use your bonus action for

Or if you wanted to do two spells

And some of the neutral ones could be bad in specific situations, but good in others

Someone_Evil

Oh, the Chef feat made it through. Neat!

RevenantBacon

Chef?

care to elaborate?

Someone_Evil

They get a food themed Song of Rest effect, and some temp hp snacks to hand out :)

dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/feats#Chef

RevenantBacon

6:54 PM

Neat

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil why wouldnt it?

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov it wasn’t overpowered enough

Someone_Evil

Huh... could have sworn using a ranged weapon was on the list of effects which ends the bladesong. You can't use two hands which I suppose excludes most ranged weapons

Thomas Markov

But im talking about using a hand cross bow

RevenantBacon

> It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you don medium or heavy armor or a shield, or if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon.

Someone_Evil

7:07 PM

Oh, wait, you don't actually need the bladesong at all. nvm then

RevenantBacon

Darts and Slings would also work

David Coffron

@ThomasMarkov You won't have proficiency unless you are a drow

Thomas Markov

@DavidCoffron 1 level of hexblade.

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon Hard to get proficiency in those without multiclassing or a feat

@ThomasMarkov Oh I missed that

RevenantBacon

And blowgun and net

Just putting it out there

Thomas Markov

7:08 PM

1 level of hexvblade gives hxbow prof and makes you a warlock, so you could take the eldritch feat and get agonizing blast.

RevenantBacon

Also, "1 level of hexblade"

David Coffron

@ThomasMarkov How are you using Attack and Cast a Spell actions in one turn with only wizard and warlock

Thomas Markov

Bladesinger.

Someone_Evil

@DavidCoffron The new version of the Bladesinger 6th level feature

Thomas Markov

Their extra attack allows you to cast a cantrip in place of your second attack.

and it doesnt stipulate wizard cantrip

David Coffron

7:09 PM

@Someone_Evil Oh; that hasn't been updated yet in D&D Beyond

Someone_Evil

@DavidCoffron Only on the Tasha's compendium listing (dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/wizard#Bladesong)

RevenantBacon

Which means Attack action, 1 attack with hand crossbow, then second "attack" is cast Blast, and if you take Crossbow Expert, you can then Bonus Action attack with hand crossbow

David Coffron

That's super broken. Cantrips are already scaling to account for the lack of extra attacks

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon Corrrect.

RevenantBacon

It's not the most efficient use of feats, but it is funny

David Coffron

7:11 PM

Why did Bladesinging need a buff. It was already really strong

Thomas Markov

At 20 charisma, if everything hits, its 2d6+4d10+50

for an average of 79.

RevenantBacon

Is this also assuming a non-magical crossbow?

Thomas Markov

yeah

RevenantBacon

Because you're most likely level 8 at this point

Thomas Markov

oh no, thats a level 17+ build

Someone_Evil

7:12 PM

@DavidCoffron I suspect they found some data about it being underplayed because it used to say Elf-only and was in a not that much used book

RevenantBacon

And if you don't have a +1 weapon by now, you're behind the curve

David Coffron

@Someone_Evil That would make sense

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Oh, then you should probably calculate with a +3 weapon

Then compare to a 4-attack fighter with the same

That's 1 per person in a standard 4-man party

Thomas Markov

Swords bards can pump out some massive damage

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon Yeah, but you don't necessarily choose which magic items you get

But they are only Very Rare anyway

4 Very Rare, and 4 Legendary is the expectation, so you can probably guarantee at least one +3 weapon

Variant Human Warlock 1/Wizard 6 gives you 2d6+2d10+16, still pretty solid even before capstoning

RevenantBacon

7:16 PM

True, but if your not playing in a module and your DM specifically doesn't give you a magical version of the single weapon you're building around, that's kinda lame of them. And I'll grant that it's not guaranteed to be a +3, but any other kind of magic weapon is likely to be more powerful

Obviuosly excluding +1 or +2 magic

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon When I DM, even in sandboxes, I don't hand out exactly the item you want unless you actively seek it out (preferring items that make sense for the story/area, or random ones otherwise). But that's just me

RevenantBacon

@DavidCoffron Well sure, but if I'm building around hand-crossbows, then I'm actively seeking out the best one I can get

Or swords

Or whatever my weapon of choice happens to be

David Coffron

I guess that makes sense. It's just not how my characterization goes. I don't picture a character who would actively seek out an item that should cost around 35,000 gp. If you have that kind of money, what do you need a slightly better crossbow for?

RevenantBacon

I mean, when you have that kind of money, what else are you spending it on?

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon In my high level campaigns, I usually purchase land, and hirelings. What most nobles spend their money on (since at that point you are in that king of wealth territory)

Or I donate it to a temple if I'm that kind of character, or I create a merchant empire if I'm that kind of character

RevenantBacon

7:22 PM

Well sure, if you can somehow convince the actual local nobility that you A) have the right to purchase land, and B) that they should for some reason sell to you.

Right, but then you're not the kind of character who focuses of mercing people with handcrossbows, so the point becomes moot

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon By the time you have that kind of money you are in the Masters of the Realm tier

it seems like you would have some clout

> characters are shining examples of courage and determination — true paragons in the world, set well apart from the masses. At this tier, adventurers are far more versatile than they were at lower levels, and they can usually find the right tool for a given challenge.

and

> At this tier, adventurers make their mark on the world in a variety of ways, from the consequences of their adventures to the manner in which they spend their hard-won treasure and exploit their well-deserved reputations. Characters of this level construct fortresses on land deeded them by local rulers. They found guilds, temples, or martial orders. They take on apprentices or students of their own. They broker peace between nations or lead them into war.

RevenantBacon

Sure, but just having money and beating on demons isn't enough to make you actual nobility

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon No, but you can function amidst the upper class because of your adventure winnings

I just don't find the character who is only seeking to be a more powerful adventurer to tell very compelling stories at my table, but if it works for you, then it works for you :)

RevenantBacon

Ah, see, you've made an assumption then

That the only goal is to become more powerful

Although, that's technically true

it's just seeking a different kind of power

personal, rather than economic or political

David Coffron

Right, so having a better crossbow is an instrumental goal to acquiring whatever other power you want. I just think that that much money could be better spent elsewhere

RevenantBacon

7:27 PM

Or rather, using their economic power to purchase personal power, instead of political power

And what is having land for?

David Coffron

Comfort in most cases

When I am spending downtime between adventures I want to have a comfortable time

RevenantBacon

If that were the case, most adventurers would retire after making only a couple thousand

David Coffron

Not if they like adventuring too. They may just want comfort between adventures

RevenantBacon

That would afford them a decent sized house and enough money to cover a comfortable lifestyle for the rest of their days

David Coffron

Keep in mind that if you don't have a lot of downtime, you reach level 20 in like 2 months which is a bit absurd imo

RevenantBacon

7:29 PM

They still wouldn't need the kind of money we're talking about

Well, sure, if you just fight non-stop every day straight

but that's only something someone that's actually crazy would do

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon When I pace out an adventure for my players I usually put around 90% of there time as downtime or travel

RevenantBacon

I lean more towards 75%

although I also bunch it up a bit

David Coffron

At 75% they still hit level 14-ish after 2 months

I try to land them in that tier after a couple years

RevenantBacon

clear out a cave of gobbos, then like next day clear out a den of wolves

then a break for a few weeks or so

David Coffron

What I do is like adventure from level 1 or 3 to 6 to 8ish, then 6 months downtime before the next major threat for 6 to 8 through 12 to 15. And then a similar or even larger gap before they are called for epic tier stuff. And in each adventure I sprinkle in a few months downtime in 1 to 3 week increments.

That gives you a span of 2.5 years before they start approaching that level 18 to 20 range

_
Characters like Drizzt or Elminster took hundreds of years to go from level 10ish to epic tiers

KorvinStarmast

7:38 PM

@RevenantBacon adventurers are naturally restless people. ;) See also the Athenians, as described by Thucidydes ... 😉

RevenantBacon

@DavidCoffron Yeah, but those are in a story where the writer (DM) has full control over the characters (PCs) so that doesn't really count.

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon Yeah; I know that game characters are going to move much faster to give the sense of progression, but it breaks my immersion when you go from Folk Hero to Dominant Force on the planet in less time than it takes to raise a good hunting dog

Bardic Wizard

One of my groups does 2-3 downtime days at minimum between adventures and usually it’s more like two weeks between adventures, but we don’t level every adventure. We usually level every four or 5 adventures

RevenantBacon

@DavidCoffron Definitely not gonna disagree with you there

@BardicWizard That sounds about right. Isn't it supposed to be like 7-13 encounters per level?

Or was that an old edition

David Coffron

@RevenantBacon That sounds right. I think the estimate I came to a while back was about 10

RevenantBacon

7:43 PM

I was actually thinking the exact given number was 11, so yeah, that sounds right to me

David Coffron

Here is a table that someone on reddit put together:

Maybe a bit higher than I thought

RevenantBacon

Yeah, actually that makes more sense, since I think it was an adventure is recommended to have 3-4 strong, or 5-6 weak encounters, and you should mix and match

so two 3-4 adventures plus one 5-6 makes about 12.5 encounters

MikeQ

8:02 PM

With all these variant rules, why don't they just republish the whole thing as D&D 5.5e?

Thomas Markov

DMing for a new group that asks to use all this extra stuff is going to feel like having to uninstall bloatware from a new phone.

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov no kidding. I’m not buying it for other reasons, but I know at least one person in my groups preordered it

and will be asking about every freaking option the next campaign we do

RevenantBacon

8:30 PM

If it's going to be a problem, then tell them you aren't allowing the book.

Unless you mean their just going to be asking about everything because they want to figure out every possible interaction, in which case I would direct them to create an account on the stack and ask any questions they may have here.

OR, even better, just collect all of their questions and post them here as your own and rake in the free rep

Big Brain plays right there

Bardic Wizard

It’ll end up being questions about “how will this change our magical nuclear reactor”

But usually not too disruptive

although our rule is “the book is banned until the GM has a legal copy of it”

RevenantBacon

8:46 PM

I know a few people who go by that rule

Also, any sort of magical nuclear reactor, or super weapon, or anything similar is automatically doomed to failure in any campaign that I run

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon we’ve been working on it for fun for... years now

RevenantBacon

Well, I doom it to failure as a general rule because there are only 3 possible outcomes.

A) it ends up going off without a hitch, and is so powerful that the words "challenge" and "consequences" lose all meaning,

Bardic Wizard

it’s part of “magical sandía base where the government does illegal magical weapons research”, which is next to “space station plans for magical space station”

it’s our group developing it as an NPC thing

mostly.

RevenantBacon

B) If it were possible, someone else would have already done it, and has a veste interest in preventing yours from working, so it gets sabotaged

Thomas Markov

WHATTTTTTT

RevenantBacon

8:51 PM

or C) the magics don't work together like you would expect and things get fucky real fast

The last option tends to open up a door to either one of the planes of Chaos, or one of the planes of Law

@BardicWizard watermelon?

Thomas Markov

user-024673 is gszavae

3

Bardic Wizard

Sandia Base

Sandia Base was the principal nuclear weapons installation of the United States Department of Defense from 1946 to 1971. It was located on the southeastern edge of Albuquerque, New Mexico. For 25 years, the top-secret Sandia Base and its subsidiary installation, Manzano Base, carried on the atomic weapons research, development, design, testing, and training commenced by the Manhattan Project during World War II. Fabrication, assembly, and storage of nuclear weapons was also done at Sandia Base. The base played a key role in the United States nuclear deterrence capability during the Cold War. In...

RevenantBacon

Ah

because apparently, that translates to watermelon

And now I'm picturing a giant watermelon shaped building

Bardic Wizard

it’s an in-joke that started because my bisabuela worked there

RevenantBacon

Oh, cool

Bardic Wizard

8:55 PM

The name is because it’s in the sandia mountains

Our group thought it’d be cool as a place for semi-legal things

RevenantBacon

I don't think weapons of mass destruction are typically legal :p

Although to be fair, if no one knows that they exist, they can't be illegal

KorvinStarmast

9:11 PM

I know some people who work at Sandia labs. And none of them ever met Walter White. :)

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast did you see what happened to user-024673

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov where?

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast Check out OP on this post: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/q/11283/62294

KorvinStarmast

Is that also the user formerly known as jgn?

Thomas Markov

That I dont know

Before my time, I think

KorvinStarmast

9:15 PM

@ThomasMarkov reverted to their former name, I guess. Maybe two accounts merged?

Thomas Markov

I imagine so.

Glad to see they didn't die of COVID. Not so glad to have been taken for a ride.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov It seems to be a part of how they amuse themselves on this site

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon ... how are we defining legal?

RevenantBacon

In general, I go with "If there isn't a law making it illegal, it's not illegal."

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast now I feel extra smug about the rep flexing I did in the comment chain.

@RevenantBacon Usually a pretty safe principle.

KorvinStarmast

9:20 PM

@RevenantBacon seems to be a good rule of thumb

RevenantBacon

This, by the way, is how new laws generally get invented

those fabled Blue Book laws

My personal favorite real actual law: “No person shall sound the horn on a vehicle at any place where cold drinks or sandwiches are served after 9pm.”

-Section 18-55 Little Rock Code of Ordinances

@BardicWizard You live in California, right?

Thomas Markov

There's a town here in georgia where gun ownership is mandated by law

RevenantBacon

Here's one for you: You can have any number of frogs as you like in a frog-jumping contest, but if any of them die, you aren't allowed to eat them

Thomas Markov

In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.

Catija

That seems unconstitutional.

Bardic Wizard

9:27 PM

@RevenantBacon yeah

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon about three decades ago, maybe longer, a blue law in either Iowa or Illinois (or Indiana?) was finally repealed. Apparently, there had been a law on the books for some years that it was illegal substitute inflated condoms for balloons at childrens birthday parties (or something like that). Which led me to wonder (huh, how did that law get put on the books in the first place?)

Thomas Markov

@Catija There's a second section:

Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.

@Catija Also, Hey there! It's good to see you in the chat

Catija

:D Hi :D

Thomas Markov

everyone behave SE staff is here :P

Catija

@ThomasMarkov I mean, it's good that there's exceptions but my pediatrician gives me a piece of paper after every appointment that says to not have guns in the house and, if it's absolutely necessary, to store the ammunition separately... but the general guidance of the AAP is to have no guns in households.

(with kids)

KorvinStarmast

9:31 PM

If you are aware that the militia is (Title 10 Ch 12 of the US Code §246. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon why???????

KorvinStarmast

@Catija So it might not be unconstitutional? but it might be wrong for this chat.

Catija

@ThomasMarkov Ugh. Please. :D I wanted to see if y'all have heard of an RPG that I played in a Twitch livestream a couple weeks ago. It's called Atma. I think it's just a web version currently but they did a Kickstarter and are putting out a physical card game soon?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch maybe move this to Not a Bar?

Bardic Wizard

(Sorry for prompting this, I think it might have been my fault)

Thomas Markov

9:32 PM

I feel like I saw @BESW mention that recently.

Though Im not sure.

KorvinStarmast

@Catija neat; I stopped doing kick starter when kickstarters stopped sending me promised materials. Never ever again.

Catija

@KorvinStarmast Probably? I know some rooms are more flexible with what is on topic than others, so I leave that to y'all.

KorvinStarmast

@Catija I am not sure, one of the room owners can make a ruling on that.

Catija

@KorvinStarmast Ah, that's no fun. I'm sorry. I've been really choosy but I've always gotten what I was backing.

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov Finnish construction law dating back to 1734 (meaning it's actually Swedish, we just kept it around) mandates that every house must grow hops or pay a fine

Catija

9:33 PM

Hey, hops make beer... so that's totally legit.

kviiri

Yep

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast I'll give you one guess as to how it was put on to begin with. someone has to have done it

KorvinStarmast

@Catija And when I write to kickstarter asking them for assistance in getting account to be clearly identified since the producer requires that, I get Crickets Chirping. They can go rot

Catija

We brewed beer with homegrown hops, and it was way better than the hops pellets they sell in stores... or at least, I'm assuming it was since I don't generally enjoy beer.

Thomas Markov

@kviiri That law is very h̶u̶m̶o̶r̶o̶u̶s̶ humulus.

KorvinStarmast

9:35 PM

@Catija nice!

kviiri

I'm not sure what "house" actually means in that context, but my guess it would be more like "manor". Finnish society at the time made a distinction between independent households and the crofthouses of the tenant farmers.

RevenantBacon

@BardicWizard No idea, I'm sure they'd still taste fine

Thomas Markov

Can you make flour out of hops?

kviiri

@Catija Also hey, welcome to RPG chat. I don't recall seeing you here o/

RevenantBacon

@BardicWizard Pretty sure it wa my fault

Catija

9:36 PM

@KorvinStarmast I uh... yeah. I feel that way about IndieGoGo... but for a much more petty reason. I followed a link to a project I was sent in an email once and they just created an account for me and started treating me like a user... that breach of privacy was not OK and I've never looked back.

RevenantBacon

And I am completely unashamed of that

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon my nuclear magic, my fault

Catija

@kviiri Hi! Yeah. I'm just stopping in to say hi.

Hope things are going well for y'all.

KorvinStarmast

@Catija yeah, that's another aspect to be wary of ...

kviiri

Sure is ^__^ I had an important event happen today

Thomas Markov

9:38 PM

@Catija They've been interesting. So interesting, in fact, that I thought you were here because of whats been interesting.

kviiri

My thesis was graded and the preliminary grade I had been offered – which was much to my liking – is now official

Thomas Markov

@kviiri Is it graded on a scale?

MikeQ

@KorvinStarmast It seems that all 3 are the same, yes

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov Scale as in?

Thomas Markov

@kviiri ABCDF?

kviiri

9:40 PM

Oooooh

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ yeah, also lives under a bridge somewhere I think

kviiri

Yeah, I was just confused to what the alternative might be. I guess freeform verbal?

Thomas Markov

Mine was graded on "publish it - fix it", no scale. It either got published or you had to fix it some more.

kviiri

But yeah, it's on the L > E > M > C > NSL > B > A > I scale (with I being the sole failing grade)

(I got an E)

Bardic Wizard

@kviiri yay!

KorvinStarmast

9:41 PM

@kviiri Well, if you have it in E Flat Major, can you make it your magnum opus? 😎

and we can all hum along ...

Thomas Markov

@kviiri wait so an A is the worst without failing?

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov I am pretty sure that M is for Mahvelous but I can't get Fernando on the line ...

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov Yea, it's from Latin "Approbatur" which just means "Approved". B is for "Lubenter approbatur" meaning "Gladly approved" (it's B because L is already taken for a higher grade), NSL is "Non Sine Laude Approbatur" or "Approved not without praise"

KorvinStarmast

And C is for Cat? 👀

Thomas Markov

NSL = Not Super Lame?

Now I need to know the rest @kviiri :)

kviiri

9:44 PM

C is "Cum Laude Approbatur" (Approved with praise), M is "Magna Cum Laude Approbatur" (Approved with great praise), E is for "Eximia Cum Laude Approbatur" (Approved with exceptional praise) and L is for "Laudatur" (Praised)

KorvinStarmast

Great. Now I have to make a home brew sub class called a Laudatur: probably a bard ...

kviiri

Finnish academic grading is pretty Hogwarts

KorvinStarmast

But on the other hand, at least (once it is explained) it makes sense

kviiri

But they're actually switching these theses to use the normal 1-5 plus 0 as a failing grade scale

Thomas Markov

How are NSL and C different

kviiri

9:46 PM

I'm one of the last to receive a Latin grade

@ThomasMarkov NSL is worse :-)

Thomas Markov

with praise and not without praise are the same thing though ;P

KorvinStarmast

In English

Thomas Markov

L is "we praised it so much we forgot to approve it"

RevenantBacon

@BardicWizard Yes, but I'm the one who brought up blue laws

kviiri

"Wouldn't even make sense to approve this explicitly, ti's so good"

Bardic Wizard

9:47 PM

@RevenantBacon that’s fair

Thomas Markov

@kviiri "approval is self-attesting, so all we did was praise it"

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri "I found this so good I stopped paying attention to my iphone for 20 minutes" perhaps?

Catija

@kviiri Congrats! :D

Thomas Markov

I cast modify memory - you all think it was @KorvinStarmast's fault

kviiri

@Catija Thanks!

KorvinStarmast

9:49 PM

@ThomasMarkov just because I know someone in New Mexico who is not a meth dealer, it's my fault? 😮

Thomas Markov

checks notes

@KorvinStarmast Yes, it would seem so.

Catija

@ThomasMarkov Well, I was peeking for one reason but started chatting for others. :) Sometimes it's nice to just hang out.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov OK, and it wasn't me who did any inflating, just to clarify.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast My notes have been amended.

kviiri

@ThomasMarkov Our MSc theses are not required to have original results, but mine has two. A week before submitting, one was positive, the other negative. Guess who decided to run the negative result again with more compute time just to see what happens to it... and turned it posiive.

KorvinStarmast

9:51 PM

@ThomasMarkov thank you; I mean, this is for posterity ... or something.

@kviiri It wasn't me, no matter how much Thomas tries to blame me. .😎

kviiri

It was a fun little exercise in re-writing because while I would've been happy to put the negative result in as-is, I couldn't honestly report a negative result when I knew it wasn't the ultimate outcome xD

KorvinStarmast

did you use a keyboard or voice to text?

Bardic Wizard

@KorvinStarmast hey, what are you assuming about my great-grandmother?

Thomas Markov

@kviiri I had something similar happen. My main result was a proof of a special case of a conjecture, and then I ended up proving the conjecture after submitting the thesis. When the college sent it back complaining I didnt have a conclusion I added a sketch of the conjecture proof and cited the paper where I proved the conjecture.

KorvinStarmast

@BardicWizard The people I know are at Sandia labs. 😉

kviiri

9:55 PM

@KorvinStarmast keyboard x) luckily there wasn't too much. The entire thing was kind of an afterthought

@ThomasMarkov Nothing that gets you a Fields medal though, I reckon?

KorvinStarmast

@BardicWizard and as far as I know, not involved in meth production (But then, most people were not aware of Walter White's involvement 😮 )

Thomas Markov

@kviiri They havent contacted me yet.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast My roomies are just watching Better Call Saul, a show I enjoyed tremendously. I love watching an episode or two with them whenever I can

I love how Vince Gilligan sometimes does a shot from a normal angle for dramatic effect

KorvinStarmast

@BardicWizard ref this comment

kviiri

aaanyway. Sauna time

KorvinStarmast

9:58 PM

@kviiri Ooh, we need to catch up on the latest season

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Most definitely! I think S4 raised some rather interesting thoughts in me to regarding the narrative relationship between BCS and BB

But now I really must be going ^^

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri cheers

kviiri

see ya

Bardic Wizard

@KorvinStarmast ...just checking

Akixkisu

10:12 PM

If you think that the never guess the system attitude is harmful, make sure to downvote this faq-proposal which would lend further legitimacy to a particular stance on an issue that is hotly contentious and has no overall consensus.

Thomas Markov

10:30 PM

Similarly, if you think it is helpful, upvote it.

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BESW

11:38 PM

@HotRPGQuestions Only if their order is at least 100gp. Expedited shipping not valid with this offer.

linksassin

The point of that post is not to stifle discussion to say that is always has to be that way. It is to clarify what the current policy *is*. Too much of the discussion has involved talking circles around one another so the mod team created that post as a line in the sand so that everyone can be on the same page.
New posts discussing changes or reversals of the policy now have a clear policy that can be quoted or modified to present new ideas.
Prior to that post the actual policy had to be inferred from 3+ long meta threads with constantly changing votes. That was not a productive basis for t…

2

BESW

Thank you for helping establish a baseline.

Akixkisu

@linksassin that would be fine if it accurately represented that this is a contested issue, it is a solid baseline otherwise.

If you are going to set a baseline that claims a consensus when there are 30+ meta posts on a topic and don't mention that, then it feels dishonest.

Carcer

@Akixkisu the question explicitly says there are 30 whatever meta topics about it and includes the line "Over time, this policy has become controversial and complex..."

linksassin

@Akixkisu It represents the policy as it is understood by the moderation team and as it has been enforced since at least march. The post does mention that there are 30+ meta posts.

> As a community, we have addressed topics related to this issue in over 30 meta posts (full list) since it was originally asked about on meta. Over time, this policy has become controversial and complex with various nuanced interpretations, which makes it difficult to have productive discussions around it.

Akixkisu

11:44 PM

@Carcer the question does, the faq answer doesn't.

Carcer

the answer isn't about whether the policy is controversial, it's about what the policy is as understood by the mod team. The context in which it is provided makes clear that it is understood that it's a controversial topic.

linksassin

@Akixkisu The FAQ answer was intented to be as clear as possible. Adding nuance to it would muddy the waters and detract from the goal of the post. The intent is that answer will change over time should consensus form on what changes should be made.

4

@Akixkisu That said, it you have specific alterations you would like to see made, I'm willing to listen. But please keep in mind the goal of having the policy answer be as clear an unambiguous as possible.

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