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Upper_Case
Upper_Case
12:02 AM
I've been working on an answer to a question, but I'm not sure it's really enough
There is such a large spread in what the asker is looking for that the best answer I could think of is mostly just an AnyDice script, where they can play with the variables
But that feels like a link-only nonanswer
 
BESW
BESW
@BardicWizard Swordsfall is pretty amazing, it's not my kind of game but I've been watching it develop for a while and I'm very impressed.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
12:14 AM
Whoever mentioned GitP to me, thank you for ruining my history grade. I am thoroughly distracted
but there is a great many funny things
and i have found the existence of the “things I’m no longer allowed to do” thread and I’m gonna end up with yet more banned tactics
 
BESW
BESW
@BardicWizard May I also suggest Darths & Droids.
(Gosh, that copypaste didn't want to work.)
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@BESW i love that comic!!
 
Someone_Evil
Someone_Evil
@Upper_Case Isn't that supposed to be an optimization question? Title sure seems worded that way
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
I learned about it through a friend (same one that introduced me to order of the stick, before I knew much of about tabletop games)
 
BESW
BESW
Kickstarter: Good Strong Hands RPG by Craig Campbell. A darkly whimsical game about saving your fantastical world.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
12:25 AM
I think I picked up reading OOTS back in the godsmoot arc, so it hasn’t been that long
 
BESW
BESW
Kickstarter: Alchemy by Cold Hearth Collective. A hardbound collection of alchemically-themed incursions for Trophy Dark.
From Nightmares: D100 Unsettling Items for Sci-Fi RPGs by Ian Yusem. A cornucopia of bizarre and upsetting equipment, baubles, and curiosities found in the seedy depths of X-Class stations or the rotting hulls of ghost ships. Guaranteed to make your players say "I hate that" "no" and "f— this."
Kazumi Chin wrote a twitter thread about why "it is hard to recreate the kind of horror we see on screen in a tabletop setting" and their ideas about how to make horror effective in tabletop games.
 
Upper_Case
Upper_Case
@Someone_Evil It's been workshopped pretty heavily, but I think the current question is "what are the chances I can maintain concentration with this build?"
 
BESW
BESW
Hello, World by Umbral Aeronaut. Memory & Loss in a crumbling utopia.
 
Upper_Case
Upper_Case
Optimization would make a good other side of the coin, though
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@BESW okay, those are showing up in my current campaigns. Even though we play in a moving-slowly-into-the-Renaissance-tech-level standard medieval fantasy world
 
BESW
BESW
12:33 AM
"Knowing Where You're Going" a Storybrewers panel about game briefs. (YouTube upload from Game Dunk Online 2020).
Lian Rose is using a twitter thread "to write a #SettingADay for use in tabletop scenarios."
Kickstarter: Best Left Buried: Deeper by SoulMuppet Publishing. A new version of the rules light fantasy horror roleplaying game, Best Left Buried.
Wildfire Relief Jam Hosted by Kyle Allen Devich. The Wildfire Relief Jam is an opportunity for members of the tabletop roleplaying game community to create something and raise money individually to support people who are experiencing displacement, property loss, injury, loss of family or friends, and so on.
Kickstarter: Check Yes Romeo by I. J. Dean. Check Yes, Romeo is an improv narrative dating simulator card game meant to get to know people better. Find your lucky match.
Upcoming Kickstarter: UNBOUND RPG Reprint by Grant Howitt. Create your own unique world and then blow it to pieces.
Ajey Pandey wrote a twitter thread "about one of the greatest value of tabletop RPGs: Getting to inhabit a world on your own terms."
"Weaving Asian Stories" The 'Asians Represent' podcast and friends discuss how to more positively navigate Asian cultures in D&D game design, narrative representation, and ethical game play. YouTube upload of a D&D Celebration 2020 panel.
LANE by Ben M Warren is a high-speed tactical multiplayer skirmish game made to capture the strategic challenge and teamwork of a MOBA with the social aspect and character-driven play of a tabletop RPG.
"Let’s Stop with the Realism Versus Science Fiction and Fantasy Debate" Lincoln Michel Proposes a New Way to Think About Fictional Worlds in an article on Literary Hub.
Jeff Stormer started a twitter thread asking for recommendations of TTRPGs "with a mood of celebration and joy."
Nonviolent Adventures Jam Hosted by Guinevere Drake. violence is extremely common in ttrpgs and ttrpg content. nonviolent adventures are far and few between. give us some peaceful ttrpg experiences!
Finish Your Sh!t Jam Hosted by PhillyGameMechanics. Did you participate in Laser Jam and want to finish up? Do you have an old jam game you want to polish and release? Do you have a full game that you just need to get out the door? Do you want to start and finish a new jam game? Do you have clean laundry that you haven't folded and put away yet? NOW IS THE TIME!
Dungeons on a Dime is looking for (twitter link) #TTRPG writers for new upcoming projects.
city game tileset by withering systems. A hand-drawn asset pack of 281 isometric environmental tiles, saved as compressed, individual pngs. Tiles are all 382 x 805 pixels, but with significant padded transparency to keep center alignment. These tiles are CC-BY: free for any use, with a credit line.
...okay I think that's all for now.
 
BESW
BESW
1:03 AM
Speaking of heist games... Sticky Frogs were caught planning a Treatie Heist (twitter link).
In the context of which, it's also appropriate to share
 
Ben
Ben
1:21 AM
Howdy do
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
1:53 AM
@BESW da’w...
Those frogs are adorable
 
BESW
BESW
Sticky Frogs is a highlight of my feed.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
2:33 AM
My little brother wants to play a “game like Dee and Dee but with Cars the movie” now after watching Cars for the 51st time
I’m considering just doing a game with Risus or something similar.
 
BESW
BESW
Oooh I just remembered a game... [rummages]
I've mentioned this a couple months ago, might be worth checking out again.
Jun 28 at 22:40, by BESW
@BardicWizard Game developer Rob Donoghue designed a game he called "Basic Focus" to play with his 7-year-old. He started noodling on it here and finalized it here. The end result uses d6s but it'd be super trivial to just make it a couple fistfuls of random dice.
And maybe mash it up with this?
Jan 9 '18 at 2:48, by BESW
@PeterCooperJr. Fred Hicks (one of the motivating forces behind Evil Hat Productions, the guys who do Fate stuff) made these character sheets for his kids, with this worldbuilding document.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@BESW I think that’s from the first time I tried RPGs with him; it’s turned out pretty well since then
 
Axoren
Axoren
3:13 AM
No one told me there would be a Spoiler
I walked into the room, offered him an opportunity to become a servant of the Sun instead of Spoiler, but things went interesting
Don't know if this is in the book for the adventure, but me showing up as a Planetar of the Sun, made him Spoiler, refuse my offer, and die on his own blade.
And then we all received a Spoiler
Even though we're an evil party, we've been ending a lot of encounters recently through talking people down and negotiating with one side of rival factions.
This one was a very "Yoooo" moment.
Not sure if this was a path listed in the book, but the DM ran it solid
I was purely acting in my self-interest to gain a powerful ally for the Sun.
But the way it turned out hit different than a lot of what has happened before.
We both had an Spoiler and he asked if I'd sacrifice anything to Spoiler and I told him "I would sacrifice everyone."
Still got goosebumps.
One of the other party members actually met the Sun when they tried to probe my thoughts during a Short Rest.
The other was a Bard playing music to inspire me.
And the other was an Artificer using Flash of Inspiration on me.
The Persuasion Check was 24.
Everyone contributed a little bit to my speech.
When we were told that there was Spoiler, I was expecting a tough fight. That expectation was dashed in the coolest of ways
DM says we're starting next week at Spoiler. We might actually finish the campaign next week or the week after.
 
Hot RPG Questions
Hot RPG Questions
3:36 AM
6
Q: As a Sorcerer, given that I can't multiclass or take feats, how successful can I be at passing concentration checks when starting at Level 15?

João GrandoI'm doing a melee sorcerer, but I'm afraid of losing my concentration in combat because in the higher levels, the damage is too big, and the concentration save is too difficult. My campaign doesn't allow feats or multiclassing. Only ASI are permitted. Str (+2) / Dex (+2) / Con (+5) / Int (0) / W...

dnd-5e spells concentration
 
Axoren
Axoren
3:49 AM
DM is now telling me, most of that was from the book. I'm uncharacteristically impressed with WotC on this one.
 
Ben
Ben
I'm assuming the is from the new Icewind Dale 5e adventure?
 
Axoren
Axoren
Dungeon of the Mad Mage
We're finishing it up, but this is some late-game content that some people might still be working through
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
ok, Have an old module I'm revamping (The Ring of Brodgar). Using original pathfinder, home brew world. I have no drow or underdark, but an ancient evil locked away which leaks its creations on the world. (predominately father-god of all goblin kind (which here will include orcs, trolls, etc) and all things demonic and abberant)

What I have is an empty dwarven fortress with what is basically a goblin town below it (unaware of the dwarven fortress above as its been empty for 300 years,...well of dwarves anyway, so no actual goblinkind can be used). The module has a tribe of Grimlocks who ha…
 
Ben
Ben
@SandraLeigh Take a CR 7 creature and call it a Giant Dire Rat?
Dire/Cave Bear is Cr 7 and has "beast-y" traits that you might be able to rejig a little to match what you need
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
and why wouldn't I just use that creature? Is there nothing the equivalent of the dire rats for higher level characters?
sorry, the cave bear comment didn't pop until after I'd commente
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:02 AM
@SandraLeigh Apply templates:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mutant-creature-cr-1/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/gnarled-creature-cr-1/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/demonic-vermin-cr-1/
 
Ben
Ben
All g
 
Axoren
Axoren
If you want them bigger creatures, look at the Giant template.
If all else fails, add more rats.
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
I don't so much need them larger as just more of a challenge. These guys have been waltzing over CR 9s
I finally managed to scratch them with a CR 9
 
Ben
Ben
The CR 7 list doesn't really have any rat-like creatures... it does have some wolves and even giant beetles, but at CR 7 we're getting a bit outside the norm haha
 
Axoren
Axoren
Again, apply multiple templates or use creatures with better stat blocks like Ben suggested. Pathfinder is unfortunately one of the least balanced systems there is. A friend of mine was asked to stop playing his build in a West March because he was out-performing a Level 17 in melee combat at 7.
Your players might be too strong for conventional Pathfinder CR measures to challenge them.
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
4:06 AM
Yeah, I've noticed, Ben. I'm about ready to throw a dragon at them to see what they can really do
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
Complex numbers and matrix algebra are going to be important parts of my next dungeon. My players are gonna stab it/me (...if they can catch me......which they probably can....maybe it’s not a good idea....)
 
Axoren
Axoren
As they should. Having players do your Math homework as a D&D puzzle is cheating.
I wish I thought of that when I was in high school.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
It’s not my math homework (...this time)
just an idea from the idea that complex numbers are points, which led to an idea about graphing some stuff and then to multidimensional dungeons
 
Ben
Ben
@SandraLeigh you know your PC's AC, HP and damage values, yeah?
 
Axoren
Axoren
At the very least, you should have it be simple stuff, like roughly finding the RREF of a matrix, because at least things like that can be solved logically without matrix algebra.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
4:09 AM
also I’m in the highest level of math class between us
 
Axoren
Axoren
For example, give them a Burger, Hot Dog, French Fries problem.
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
not off the top of my head.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
The stabbing is likely to come from the “you want us to navigate WHAT????
 
Axoren
Axoren
They need to find out what French Fries are.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@Axoren oh, those are fun
 
Ben
Ben
4:11 AM
If you wanna do a "themed" monster, like dire rats in an abandoned dwarf fortress, then just bump up the numbers. Then when they get floored by giant crazed rats and they ask "how they got that strong", just shrug and say "must be magic"
 
Axoren
Axoren
@Ben Usually, it's bees.
 
Ben
Ben
 
Axoren
Axoren
Bees beeing abnormally strong, rather than bees beeing responsible for the rats being that strong.
 
BESW
BESW
It's been my experience that the d20 System's attempt to codify difficulty into a single objective value scale was... misguided, at best, for a system which was also predicated on an ever-expanding collection of character features creating ever-more-unexpected build options.
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
The prince (the knight) has something like 29 AC.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
4:12 AM
@Axoren that last line is equal to 25
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BardicWizard Thanks for doing my Math Homework.
You can now proceed in the Dungeon.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
It took about a minute with about 1in^2 of paper
I like math
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BESW I generally break encounters up into 1) Better against AoE and 2) Better against Single Target. Most encounters are trivialized when you forget that the party has a SuperNova Paladin or a Action Surge Fireballing Wizard.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
This crazy dungeon would look (apparently) like Baba Yaga’s hut, just with about 6 more dimensions and locks that open only by being manipulated on the complex plane
 
BESW
BESW
As for why there aren't high-level rats, D&D has a tendency to level-gate its content. The higher level, the more gonzo the settings you can visit and the opponents you face.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:16 AM
Beyond that, anything the players one-round is just Burst they don't have for future encounters.
 
BESW
BESW
@Axoren Is it time for a new chorus of my recurring hit single, "4e solved that problem and then everyone decided to forget it ever happened"?
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BESW I still use the concept of Striker and Controller in my balancing. The big reason 4e is forgotten is that WotC has removed it entirely from existence.
I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to switch the Neverwinter MMO to 5e at this point
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
true. but the dungeon was written for 1-4, and I've got a 7th level party trolling through. (made the mistake of throwing too much at them on the way) Maybe I could just allow the quasi-cakewalk and throw something big in at the end.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@BESW isn’t that supposed to happen every week?
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
@Axoren via @BESW, no, 4e was forgotten because it was CRAP. It was a video game wannabe that was so similar to World of Warcraft I'm surprised Blizzard didn't sue.
 
BESW
BESW
4:21 AM
Yeah, we don't do that here. A lot of people, myself included, found 4e to be a high quality product with a lot of careful thought going into its design, and its similarities to WoW were superficial.
 
Axoren
Axoren
@SandraLeigh A lot of people here have different, positive opinions of 4th Edition here. Try not to edition war.
 
Sandra Leigh
Sandra Leigh
you're right, I should stop before I rant. I need sleep anyway. Thanks for the help.
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BESW What's your opinion on this when you get a chance? youtube.com/watch?v=BudxFlo2Pfk
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
If we’re going to edition war, I vote for the 9.999e1.0e10 th edition (sorry the shift and return key are right next to each other)
 
Axoren
Axoren
A lot of 5e content creators on Youtube decided to play a session to try it out, looking back on it with a perspective coming from 5e.
Not many of them had 4e experience beforehand.
 
BESW
BESW
4:23 AM
Source: I spent a year and a half in 4e and its tight design and up-front clarity about what it did and didn't want to do was a relief after five years of wading through 3.5's murky insistence that it was the best at everything and it had the wobbly subsystems to prove it. I left D&D because 4e showed me that even a really GOOD version of D&D wasn't what I wanted; prior to that I'd thought I was only struggling with imperfect systems and not with a complete mismatch of basic game expectations.
(And if it borrowed a lot from MMOs, so what? MMOs got their start borrowing from TRPGs, it's been a reciprocally symbiotic relationship since the earliest days of their co-existence. I've never understood why that's leveled as a criticism against 4e.)
2
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
And on that note I have to go back to the fundamental theorem of algebra and the 23 problems due before SoC (start of class) tomorrow
 
Axoren
Axoren
From what I've seen, the videogamey aspect is more of a feel-revulsion. Like a writer preferring a typewriter over a computer.
To keep the allegory going, 4e was the computer to a line of typewriters and while it was better at what it was trying to do, the feel was more important to those customers.
 
BESW
BESW
Yeah, but that would mean people are running around yelling that computers are bad because... the typewriter company they liked is making computers? even though their typewriter still works fine and lots of other companies are making feel-alike copies of it?
 
Axoren
Axoren
Well, what I've seen is more that they've been yelling "computers are not typewriters" and saying "we wanted another typewriter".
Which, of course is a VERY weird argument.
 
BESW
BESW
Nah, they're saying the computer is bad. [gestures above] Not that it's not what they want, but that it is objectively bad and people who like computers are wrong to like them.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:33 AM
But it was enough pressure to make them stop supporting their computer (can't find 4e resources ANYWHERE online and republishing was eternally halted) and they have now released another typewriter.
 
BESW
BESW
I'm all for people recognizing that they don't have to like every game, or every version of a single game. Increased self-awareness of what makes you happy is AWESOME.
3
 
Axoren
Axoren
There are some people yelling "computers are bad" but I've seen more of "computers are not typewriters"
And these statements are gonna be weird out of context.
But I really like the allegory.
 
BESW
BESW
Heh.
 
Axoren
Axoren
The tribalism over it is that 4e isn't like previous D&D and because it's not like D&D it's bad.
 
BESW
BESW
It's a bit of a miss of an allegory for me, because the thing that made 4e most valuable for me is how much like 3.5 it was.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:36 AM
Nothing will every be as much like that everything casserole as Pathfinder was.
 
BESW
BESW
By seeing the same franchise in a better-regulated system, I was able to better separate the franchise from the mechanics and recognize that the basic premise of D&D itself wasn't compatible with my play goals.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Pathfinder took the worst part of 3.5e and made it even worse. The content creep.
 
BESW
BESW
4e changed nothing central to the D&D franchise; so in that sense it changed nothing from 3.5.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Our tables tend to want to have Heroic Fantasy journeys. What are your play goals?
 
BESW
BESW
Pathfinder didn't change any of that either, but it kept the mechanics so the blur was harder to squint through.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:38 AM
And am I understanding what you mean by play goals correctly?
At the end of the day, we want everyone to have fun, but that seems basic.
We're very much Heroes' Journey people
 
BESW
BESW
I mean. I wanted to tell stories where violence wasn't the default solution to problems, where character advancement was tied to changes in personality and relationships rather than to money and slaughter.
I wanted games where the things our characters valued and the relationships between characters influenced our competency modes.
 
Axoren
Axoren
D&D at it's core does originate from Dungeon Crawls. Talking to rabid mice and objectively evil demons tends not to work.
I can definitely see why other systems would make such play easier.
 
BESW
BESW
I wanted systems whose manuals encouraged collaboration and didn't condescend to players and make GMs feel superior.
I... wanted games that didn't assume sapient beings could be "objectively evil."
I wanted to walk away from bioessentialism and exoticism as default worldbuilding modes.
I wanted to play in systems where the core game loop wasn't about hoarding material possessions.
I wanted games that valued having a place in a community.
...I also wanted games where numerical advancement wasn't a zero-sum game.
 
Axoren
Axoren
We as a group have actually gravitated towards non-violent resolution most out of any campaign we've played by being an evil party in Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Violence was mixed in, but overall we're winning hearts with Cooking Contests, tricking a Lich into leaving his Tower by enticing him with Warhammer figurines, Having a Battle of the Bands, and many more. Out past couple of sessions have been nearly no combat, but even before there were many times where combat was just a precaution.
We prepared to go into a Dungeon for a Dungeon Crawl and have still been managing to find peaceful resolutions to what were expected by the designers to be combats.
 
BESW
BESW
That's great. But it's not how D&D defaults. To run that kind of game you have to deliberately step away from the system's normalized modes of competency.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:45 AM
Yeah. I'm just mentioning that that kind of play can be enticing even when you're at the levels when you get the Nuclear options.
 
BESW
BESW
You can play sessions or even whole adventures while ignoring two-thirds of the book's text, but it doesn't give much support for alternatives and just leaves you to figure it out for yourself.
One thing I valued about 4e was that it explicitly said it was doing this; while 3.5 insisted it was giving me tools and support that it wasn't actually providing.
 
Axoren
Axoren
It would be very hard to plan out a 1-20 campaign in 5e without combat being a major part.
The tools it gives for non-combat resolution are 1d20+Stat.
And the measure for if anything works is DM decides
You pretty much just do everything free-style.
 
BESW
BESW
I mean, I've also discovered that I really enjoy running games where "planning a campaign" isn't a thing because they provide comprehensive support for collaborative discover-what-happens-through-play modes.
 
Axoren
Axoren
I've actually been wanting to work one of those things into future campaigns. Someone once mentioned a brilliant backstory-filling method that helps progress plot.
 
Bardic Wizard
Bardic Wizard
@BESW our group has problems like that, but the players (whose favorite encounter-resolving method involves alchemist’s fire and the grease spell) don’t ever have to try to figure out what to do (because none of them ever want to GM sigh) so they all think it’s the perfect system. But none of them ever want to change the system
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:48 AM
The "I know a guy" system.
 
BESW
BESW
I don't like 1d20+stat outside of combat or skill challenges, because it's a goblin dice mechanic for cumulative resolution and applying it for one-shot resolution completely changes the way it works.
 
Axoren
Axoren
When faced with a tough problem, if everyone fails, someone can roll to see if they "Know a guy" who might be able to help.
The player with the highest roll checks it against a DM picked DC and then they describe who they know what why they can help.
Then, people ask questions about the guy to fill in bits and pieces about that character.
 
BESW
BESW
Fate lets me do that without a chance for (random) failure. Bubblegumshoe makes "I know a guy" a core mechanic that drives the play loop.
That's the thing: I discovered that I like playing games which support the kind of play I want to experience. Having to invent stuff because the game doesn't care, isn't my idea of fun.
I want games that reinforce the pacing and patterns and features of the stories I'm trying to tell, that teach me how to tell stories I like but haven't yet learned how to tell.
And I want games that are thoughtful and careful about the themes and ideas they're reinforcing.
 
Axoren
Axoren
I can see that. Because at the end of the day, if the system doesn't provide everything, what's the point?
 
BESW
BESW
Not everything. I choose a system to provide the things I want/need and can't provide on my own.
And similarly, I don't want to use a system which is mostly crammed with stuff I won't use.
 
Axoren
Axoren
4:55 AM
We eventually stopped playing Pathfinder because what it was providing was a very different experience. It was more of an archiving task to make the character and an accounting task to actually engage in play.
Even when we weren't counting +1s in combat, we were measuring progress and timers during downtime.
 
BESW
BESW
eg, we tried to play games heavy on social interaction and interpersonal drama using the Atomic Robo system. It allows this, wants it even, but doesn't push social conflict over physical conflict and we were so used to physical conflict that we kept defaulting to it even though the game ALLOWED us to do the thing we all agreed we'd rather do.
So we played a couple sessions of Bubblegumshoe, where social conflict is the core of the system and physical conflict is strongly discouraged and emerges out of social conflict anyway.
Then when we went back to Atomic Robo, we had more understanding of how to make choices for prioritizing social conflict in systems which didn't actively push us to.
 
Axoren
Axoren
At the end of the day, I don't really know what my group wants/needs out of 5e.
I've been trying to get a Fate-style game going for a while because I want to break into that system
But after the shift from Pathfinder, we're really settled into Frankensteining 5e.
Maybe pushing a Bubblegumshoe game will be a better sell because it's specifically pushing a non-combat resolution scheme.
The biggest thing keeping us from going to GURPS or other systems is that the systems are all trying to solve the same problem: How to do combat.
 
BESW
BESW
And that's fine. If the system works for you, if everybody's safe and happy, you're golden. D&D burned me out because I was constantly pushing against it. Trying to make it less racist and colonial, less materialistic, more empathetic, more interested in characters' internal and social journeys.
 
Axoren
Axoren
And we're fine with how 5e handles combat
 
BESW
BESW
I know people who played 4e for combat, and Fate for social encounters, in the same sessions.
 
Axoren
Axoren
5:02 AM
Interesting. How would you mix these nicely?
That's something I might offer as a stepping stone since there is a 5e game I've been wanting to run that people have been asking for.
 
BESW
BESW
It's pretty straightforward, really. Fate is a narrative-phrase system so you just describe the important things about your D&D character and now it's a Fate character.
 
Axoren
Axoren
But would you just build a Fate character and a 4e character?
Or would you substitute skill points in Social skills with fate aspects?
 
BESW
BESW
4e uses skills in combat, so I wouldn't replace them with a Fate equivalent.
I'd just make the same character in both systems.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Hmm, I'll run this by our DMs and see if they want to give it a try.
I know I'll try it out
 
BESW
BESW
I'd be inclined to use guided prompts for the character aspects, tuned to the sorts of things your game is about.
Like, have every PC fill one aspect slot with a phrase describing why they adventure with the party.
 
Ben
Ben
5:06 AM
Ok, sorry if this throws a jank into the current conversation, but I'm thinking of a title for one of my "books", and I was wondering if anyone might be interested in brainstorming with me for a bit
 
BESW
BESW
"books"?
 
Axoren
Axoren
Book 1: The First of Many
 
Ben
Ben
Haha yes. It's little more than a collection of "mini-stories" at the moment, and some placeholder ideas for developing the plot, or at least the thought process for the concept of the plot. So I say "book" because at this point it's not all there
 
Axoren
Axoren
That would actually be a good name for a book with no sequel.
 
Ben
Ben
The concept is genetics-based time travel.
And how even the act of time travelling already changes things - not just altering past events. The mere act of time travel already does that
 
Axoren
Axoren
5:09 AM
How does the genetics fit into it?
 
Ben
Ben
My working title was "The end of the beginning", but that's a bit morbid and doesn't really fit the overall scope. "Re-Intervention" is a little closer
 
Axoren
Axoren
Well, time travel is usually about going forward and backwards in time. What about "Left in Time"?
It's a double meaning about getting stuck in Time and also moving laterally in it.
 
Ben
Ben
@Axoren That's the time travel mechanic. Generally time travel is machine based. Flux-Capacitor, the time travel "machine"... mine is based on the family tree - I.e. Genetics or DNA
 
BESW
BESW
"Deoxyriboanachronistic."
 
Ben
Ben
@BESW It's certainly eye catching XD
 
BESW
BESW
5:15 AM
@Ben "The Mother of Re-Invention."
or Re-Intervention, as it may be.
For full gimmick points, "The Mother of Rein(ter)vention."
 
Axoren
Axoren
I'm planning on having Time Travel be a part of my next campaign, having the players essentially defy the contradiction that they never existed by convincing the world that they have (through their remarkable deeds) and then eventually beget their own existence in the past, resulting in their being two accepted histories for the party. This theme is one I'm calling "one future, two histories" and it ties the nature of the setting together in various ways. Inspired by Git merging.
 
BESW
BESW
Or you might consider toying with "father time" phrasing for the title.
 
Axoren
Axoren
It would help to know a little more about the method because it can help you come up with a snappy phrase describing the concept.
Like, does time-travel happen at birth? Is the destination based on your genes?
 
Ben
Ben
@BESW "Ancestral Future"
 
Axoren
Axoren
Eventual Progenitor?
The Heir a Parent (pun)
 
BESW
BESW
5:23 AM
Check if Chuck Tingle has already published Pounded By The Existential Uncertainty Of The Grandfather Paradox.
 
Axoren
Axoren
If Chuck Tingle was part of a threesome with himself from the future, would he have to go back to take part in that threesome a second time from the other role?
@Ben Temporal Crossvention. Intervention already implies interference of source. Crossvention would imply that interference from multiple directions.
 
Ben
Ben
@Axoren At this point, what I've established so far is that it was created - it's not an "inherent" thing. It allows "a person" to travel back through their own (most direct) genetic ancestral lineage.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Like Assassin's Creed?
 
Ben
Ben
The tradeoff is that the mind of "the person" is implanted into "the other person". So 2 minds become one
 
Axoren
Axoren
> The series itself takes place in the modern area, in which the Templars have established the mega-corporation Abstergo Industries. Abstergo has developed a device called the Animus that allows its user to relive the memories of their ancestors through their genetic material.
 
Ben
Ben
5:27 AM
@BESW "It looks like there aren't any great matches for your search"
 
Axoren
Axoren
Instead of just reliving the memories, you're saying they can actually take part in those histories?
 
Ben
Ben
Yeah
 
BESW
BESW
 
Axoren
Axoren
I would prefer that so that I can do whatever I want in Assassin's Creed without desynchronizing. That was an annoying mechanic.
 
Ben
Ben
The first part is they do the "H.G Wells" and travel all the way forward (or in my case, backward) to a "caveman" ancestor.
 
Axoren
Axoren
5:29 AM
Re-Lineage
 
Ben
Ben
They have all the knowledge from the future - what they did to get here, etc., plus all the knowledge of where they are (in a cave hunting for their survival)
 
Axoren
Axoren
Or "Climbing Trees"
 
Ben
Ben
@Axoren Chutes and Family Trees haha
 
Axoren
Axoren
Honestly, embracing the symbolism might make for good branding
Diving Leaves.
Because the people traveling are at the far edge of the tree traveling down, right?
Falling Apples.
 
BESW
BESW
You could avoid trying to be clever and just describe what it's about.
 
Axoren
Axoren
5:33 AM
Ancestral Time Travelers?
 
BESW
BESW
Why not?
 
Axoren
Axoren
Dunno. Was giving a suggestion in your vein of thought
 
BESW
BESW
That said, how about "Revisiting Family"?
 
Ben
Ben
If I list all the things it explores, its not so much actually about the "time travel" as such.
 
Axoren
Axoren
"Oh hey, I'm grandpa!"
 
BESW
BESW
5:34 AM
You can be as weird or as straightforward as you like.
Do your individual stories have titles?
 
Axoren
Axoren
"Oh no! It's grandpa's honeymoon!"
 
BESW
BESW
Because "[title of a story] and Other Stories" is a pretty classic choice for an anthology.
Ursula Vernon's got two collections titled that way.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Memoires of my Lineage?
 
Ben
Ben
It simply uses time travel to explore other things. Merging minds with another person and it's eventual lead into loss of "self-identity"; the chaos of time itself (or a lack of control over what happens in the future, or the past)
 
Axoren
Axoren
Déja nu
 
Ben
Ben
5:41 AM
There's a lot of self-evaluation that happens, and the story uses time travel as a mechanic to jump between situations,
 
Axoren
Axoren
Déja Review
 
Ben
Ben
Déja (Re)vu
In all honesty my interest in the title actually came from Bladerunner
 
Axoren
Axoren
Treeclimber
 
Ben
Ben
That series is all about "what makes us human" (put simply), but the title has nothing to do with that. The difference is that mine is more first person... there's no sci-fi involved in it other than time travel and it comes across as more of a third-person autobiography
 
BESW
BESW
You could give it the name of the narrator. Or the name of the procedure. Or the year it begins.
It's not like Glukhovsky called his novel A Reflection On Russian Social Philosophy And Identity Through The Frame Of A Post-Apocalyptic Underground Travelogue.
 
Ben
Ben
5:50 AM
The effect of timetravel on an outsiders perspective on the inner self; A third-person autobiography
 
Axoren
Axoren
@BESW Could you give me an example of FATE play in a negotiation?
How the aspects and actions get used?
 
BESW
BESW
@Ben I'd read it.
 
Ben
Ben
Awesome :D
 
Axoren
Axoren
Like, let's say I'm a Paladin, so I should be better at convincing a Cleric to respect the Dogma of our Church, let's say.
How would I go about doing that in FATE?
And how would that Cleric argue back about the Dogma not matching the intended spirit of when those doctrine were authored because They Investigated the History of it?
There are a couple of aspects and situations (created advantages) here in play
 
Ben
Ben
> Did you have some time to talk about Faith?: if the target is uninterested, they must roll an opposed Will check to resist.
 
BESW
BESW
5:57 AM
Well, you'd start with your concepts. Perhaps the paladin is a Belligerent Demon-hunter interested in Application, not theory. And the cleric is an Fastidious Secretary-Priest who Always reads the fine print.
You'd roleplay the conversation with those character traits in mind, and at some point the GM or one of the players would call for mechanics to be brought to bear.
You'd decide what mechanics to use; it's probably not the kind of altercation which requires full conflict rules, but if a single opposed roll is deemed too small for the significance of the moment you'd likely use a contest (a series of opposed rolls; first to win three succeeds; ties change the context of the confrontation).
But the problem with this scenario is, there's no stakes.
Broadly speaking though, you'd be spending fate points to add +2 bonuses to rolls for each aspect that's useful to your action.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Let's say the stakes are that if he doesn't convince the Cleric, they gain the Cleric as an enemy. Otherwise, they gain them as an ally.
And they're an important ally.
How would stakes change this situation?
 
BESW
BESW
Stakes inform how I play it out within Fate mechanics.
Unlike D&D, where the action determines the mechanic you use, it's the weight of the action which matters to Fate.
 
Axoren
Axoren
As in higher stakes you'd be more aggressive with FATE point use?
 
BESW
BESW
If you want to stab a goblin in D&D, you will always roll initiative. In Fate, stabbing a goblin may or may not involve determining initiative depending on the significance of the goblin and your choice to stab him.
 
Axoren
Axoren
Something like the Goblin is All Alone and We Outnumber Him?
 
BESW
BESW
6:06 AM
I may simply say "You stab him, and everyone gasps at your brutality." Or we may spend the next ten minutes hip-deep in conflict mechanics as you and the goblin try to wear each others' stress down.
 
Axoren
Axoren
I see.
 
BESW
BESW
No, those aren't significance qualities, those are difficulty qualities.
 
Axoren
Axoren
The goblin might just not matter to the party's goal, so there's no reason to play out the conflict.
So, the equivalent of initiative wouldn't be considered for it
 
BESW
BESW
Right. Or, the goblin matters but not in a way which means we should give it that level of agency and attention. Roll once to see if you hit or miss, rather than multiple rounds to attack its stress and give it a chance to retaliate.
So, if I'm going to insult someone--why am I insulting them? What do I hope to gain from it and what do I risk?
I might just spend a fate point and say my Bard of the Silver-Lute College aspect lets me socially eviscerate him, and the GM might counter with a fate point of their own saying that their Rough Soldierly Bearing implies they can give as good as they get in an insult match.
Or we could spend half an hour in a conflict trying to subtly tear the other down without looking uncouth ourselves.
What's interesting? What's dramatic? What do we want to spend our real-life session time doing?
 
Axoren
Axoren
So in this case, you both just stacked aspects at each other but a contest wasn't rolled.
But if there's actual stakes, then there's a reason for the players to want to fight for a success and that becomes a perfect time to challenge the players with ideological combat.
Insulting the barmaid is just being a jerk. Insulting the guard who will be Fired if they leave their post but Has and Anger Management Problem could give the rest of the party a Stealthy way inside to avoid having to go through the Piranha filled mote.
Both sides have stakes in this case.
It's late, I'm off. But thanks for the chat regarding this.
 
BESW
BESW
6:18 AM
ttfn
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
Ben
8:12 AM
Evenin
 
BESW
BESW
[wave]
BTW, The History of Future Folk is already the title of a film so you can't use it, but it would be so good.
 
V2Blast
V2Blast
I need to rework the aspects for my character in a Fate Condensed sci-fi campaign
 
linksassin
linksassin
@Ben Evening
 
Ben
Ben
@BESW Aww that would have been good haha. I'm not upset with mine though :D It's a solid placeholder at the very least
@linksassin How's it going?
 
linksassin
linksassin
@Ben Fairly well, all things considered. Yourself?
 
Ben
Ben
8:17 AM
Not as great as I'd like them to be, but again, all things considered, not too bad
Currently working on reconfiguring some code I got online to do something similar but different, and working late (I'll be leaving at 9 tonight)
 
AncientSwordRage
AncientSwordRage
9:17 AM
@Ben sounds familiar with me
 
Ben
Ben
It's starting to get to me lol
 
 
2 hours later…
NautArch
NautArch
11:40 AM
In case anyone is wondering...I don't recommend Tomb of Horrors.
 
kviiri
kviiri
hrm, I might need to find another tomb to be buried in then
 
NautArch
NautArch
They finally agreed it wasn't fun. I really should have pushed moving away earlier.
 
AncientSwordRage
AncientSwordRage
@NautArch oh?
too much horror, not enough tomb?
 
NautArch
NautArch
too much random death
after they got to their third characters, i called it.
I wasn't having fun just watching them kill themselves
and they weren't having fun dying
 
BESW
BESW
I used the 4e Tomb of Horrors Superadventure and that was... pretty good... but it was also VERY much not trying to be the original.
 
NautArch
NautArch
11:55 AM
I think it contributed to a bit of a dispersal of the group.
Other factors were involved, but i'm pretty sure it was part of the decision process
And even with open communication about what it was going to be like and asking after each session, they wanted to keep going but I don't think they were really enjoying it.
 
AncientSwordRage
AncientSwordRage
There's something to be said for not giving up straight away
but it can't be fun to keep dying
 
BESW
BESW
The Superadventure was a sequel to all the previous iterations of the Tomb, with adventurers revisiting the different locations from earlier adventures and seeing how they'd broken down and been overrun and re-used by various beings in the meantime. The plot was somebody trying to use the old Tomb locations as focuses for an interdimensional ritual to suck the magic out of dead gods.
 
AncientSwordRage
AncientSwordRage
This is a surprisingly good plot point "suck the magic out of dead gods."
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@NautArch something BESW, troggy and I discovered in our gaming group was that people would say "yeah sure, this is all fine" out of perceived peer pressure, even when conversations were had in which "this is not fine" was ostensibly allowed. After all, everyone else seems to like it, they keep saying it's fine, who wants to be the one to say we can't do this anymore?
 
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