TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

There are games which take that pressure off, where in the devs have studied, distilled, and mechanized the salient elements of the media to be replicated so that the system does that work for the GM. D&D and other "you can do anything you want" systems like GURPS? They don't do that.

They may create the physical setpieces but they aren't designed to support pacing, character development, themes and motifs, they just tell the GMs it's our privilege and honor to do all that work ourselves.

HellSaint

@BESW btw, 5e has the background features that were supposed to give the players more agency on the world building. I haven't had any table using them. Ever. This makes me feel sad. haha

Thomas Markov

Seems this question is no longer a dupe.

MikeQ

To be fair, I suspect that not all my players were passive and entitled like that. Some were probably baffled by the idea they (as players) could affect the game world, outside of building their character and rolling dice.

Someone_Evil

12:16 AM

@ThomasMarkov That was a quick answer :)

kviiri

The players don't come from a vacuum, though. Their idea of playing is shaped by the prevailing hobby culture, or often its "skin" and "shell", the first things new players know about the hobby and the first learnings they have when concretely starting

Eg. back when my group started playing, our exposure to the hobby was largely through greentext & similar after action reports of funny happenings in peoples' tables

BESW

@kviiri That's one reason I think it's so important to have games like Wanderhome and Balikbayan which smash those assumptions very quickly.

kviiri

Plus some ah-so-witty-quips like "roleplay, not rollplay"

BESW

It's harder to hold onto our "skin" and "shell" ideas if we're using a system which just doesn't let those ideas in.

kviiri

Dive in deep

BESW

12:22 AM

If all you know about video games is from pop culture about Mario Bros, and then you pick up Tangled Tower or Subnautica, your preconceptions aren't going to be much of a problem because there's nothing for them to latch onto.

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil I may or may not have already written it in notepad.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov I may or may not have guessed that because I may or may not have done exactly the same thing a couple of times

kviiri

@BESW But yeah, what I'm trying to say is, I think we shouldn't offload the responsibility to play games in the ways that work the best to them to the players themselves, at least in all cases. In other words, I don't buy the "if my players want narrative freedom, why are they so passive" and similar arguments

HellSaint

Holy macaroni there is someone playing a D&D campaign with 9 players at the same time

I wonder how that is going to work

(this dude right here)

Thomas Markov

@HellSaint that doesn’t sound fun to me.

HellSaint

12:25 AM

That sounds like the hellish hell to me.

Thomas Markov

I hope party composition is pretty diverse.

Someone_Evil

@HellSaint Basically started there (as a player) and don't really want to back

HellSaint

How actually diverse can it be though? I don't think there are 9 mutually exclusive roles.

MikeQ

All monks. But with different hats.

Thomas Markov

Or alternatively, three sets of three kobolds in trench coats.

NautArch

12:26 AM

@HellSaint I've got 8 right now.

BESW

@kviiri I'm talking about sharing and mutual support, not abdication.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov That actually happened in a one-shot I ran

HellSaint

I recently joined a table with 5 players on it (I'm the sixth) and I already feel like it was impossible to make a character that was not going to compete in some meaningful role there

Thomas Markov

My best friend and I have made a pact that if our characters die in the same session we’re both making kobold artificers.

BESW

@HellSaint I had nine people for a 4e campaign, briefly.

HellSaint

12:27 AM

@NautArch How?

kviiri

@BESW yeah, I see. I just wanted to clarify where I'm coming from

HellSaint

Do you split the party? Or do you actually get 8 players at the same time?

6 is by far my limit. Anything larger I can't handle :(

Someone_Evil

@HellSaint That's actually kinda solvable. The bigger problem is in spotlight and similar dynamics (at least to me)

NautArch

@HellSaint slowly :) But it's also a very flexible game. You can come and go whenever you want. Usually there is a stable core of 4 and the other 4 are touch and go. But some nights there are all 8.

HellSaint

Yeah the reason I like 6 is that the game day doesn't die because that one person went MIA

Bardic Wizard

12:29 AM

I’m running a game through the library and I’ve got 7 players most of the time plus the librarian, and in a game I play in (almost the same group), there’s 8 players. The wizard is two rock gnomes in a trench coat (seriously).

HellSaint

@Someone_Evil Yeah, but for me the best way to get a spotlight is giving some particular task or something that is specific for a role which is played by specifically one character

With too many players I feel like the roles will overlap and it will be harder to actually give the spotlight to any specific person

Also as Naut mentioned I guess it runs too slowly haha

kviiri

For a group of eight players, I might try codifying spotlight to the point that there are one to three main characters of the "episode" and the rest will be supporting their drama

Thomas Markov

Is anyone aware of homberewed mechanics for kobolds in a trench coat?

kviiri

I've been toying around with the main/extra spotlight thing for a while but my group never really bought into it, or anything else I proposed :---)

Thomas Markov

Check this out

Someone_Evil

12:35 AM

I guess related to previous discussion: giving up on trying to coordinate with vague "No I can't that day" is how I discovered playing with just 3 players is actually kinda great

Thomas Markov

I really feel for that guy.

BESW

I kinda want to explore adding the Watcher role to more "traditional" gameplay as a way to expand player rosters.

kviiri

Now to sleep

It's many o'clock

BESW

(Watcher is a L*vecraftesque role for players who don't have primary GM responsibilities or a player character, but instead jump in to add setting details to flesh out the world, and play NPCs as needed.)

HellSaint

@Someone_Evil but then you need a group of 4-5 people so you actually get 3 after one or two can't that day, right? :P

Thomas Markov

12:49 AM

"My DM insists on the combat being 10 seconds per turn and the round time to be the sum of all turn times (so a minute for 6 participants, for example). I am aware that this is not how turn/round time normally works." I wouldnt touch this game with a ten foot poll.

Bardic Wizard

^^

Thomas Markov

1:01 AM

@HellSaint I like how both our answers used increasingly strong language in edits as we realized how terrible the idea really was

HellSaint

Yeah.............

I mean, it's not that I realized how terrible the idea is

It's that I realized how terrible the reason is.

Thomas Markov

Id be too worried about what other bright ideas that dm might come up with to even think about playing with them.

HellSaint

I knew it was on my top 5 worst house-rules ever from the moment I read it.

Thomas Markov

@HellSaint terrible enough it almost makes you angry, right?

HellSaint

But I was not expecting it to be in the top 5 worst REASONS for a top 5 worst idea.

Like, hey, I don't know how to balance my monsters, so I will f*** up the entire game in order to make that one monster "balanced"

Oh, all the other 3000 encounters you will have using this dumb rule in the meantime? Eh, don't care.

Thomas Markov

1:05 AM

@HellSaint Im not smart enough to be dumb enough to figure out what that reasoning could possibly mean

BESW

Can I switch the subject away from bashing a GM we don't know?

Is there a way to set up a Windows computer's color profiles so you can swap between profiles fast and easy?

HellSaint

@BESW Sorry but that was too much for my self-control. I controlled myself when writing the answer, had to vent on chat

Thomas Markov

lol you could cast Tiny Hut mid combat

HellSaint

@BESW I believe there are programs to do that

@ThomasMarkov yeap that was my first thought, but since OP is a Warlock, I didn't mention it because I don't think they can cast it

Thomas Markov

@HellSaint Magic circle would be totally busted.

HellSaint

1:08 AM

@BESW But I don't think there is any inherent way to do that in Windows itself

Not one that is fast and easy at least

BESW

If anybody can point me to a program to help, especially a free/cheap one, that'd be really awesome.

I've got a friend who needs it for accessibility reasons but I'm so far out of the Windows experience I don't even know what I'm looking at.

Thomas Markov

@BESW have they checked the accessbility features of windows, there are some options for color and contrast that may help

BESW

Yeah, but from what I can tell those are buried in the systems preferences and not designed to be easily switched out on the fly.

But like, if you're playing a video game where some levels are only visible with one color profile and other levels require another color profile...

The accessibility features assume you're gonna settle on one color profile that works for everything and that's just not how my friend's eyeballs work.

HellSaint

1:24 AM

@BESW I see. That's usually designed in the game itself tbh :(

BESW

It's not just games, it happens when they're watching films too. So, yanno. A global monitor calibration tool is the one-size-fits-all solution.

Shalvenay

1:46 AM

@BESW that's really ugly -- I don't know of any sort of offtheshelf solution. were I in there shoes, I'd probably write something in Python that used the same APIs/interfaces as the existing color profile control panel, but was set up for on-the-fly switching?

also: I wonder if the Hitchcockian approach to horror could be adapted to the tabletop context? (I'm trying to think of "what'd be good alternatives to L*vecraft as a baseline to build on?")

BESW

I'm gonna look at Trophy, it seems to be a good engine from everything I've heard.

But also, like. Cthulhu Dark despite the name, is actually better at Jaws-type horror.

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2:07 AM

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Shalvenay

@BESW huh, interesting

@BESW yeah, that's probably a better use of the system

BESW

Though I still think the tension mechanic in CD should be called Fear.

Shalvenay

@BESW sounds like a simple enough hack :)

hey there @linksassin, how're things going?

linksassin

@Shalvenay G'day. Alright, yourself?

BESW

VERIFIED LARP by Riley Rethal is a game about being a verified twitter account on 15 July 2020. (twitter link)

Axoren

2:12 AM

5e Hobgoblin Wizard (Proficiency in Greatsword), Great Weapon Master, Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade

Shalvenay

@linksassin fine here, maybe we can talk a bit more about your bladesinger experience this weekend? I'm kinda curious as to your char's background and how they've turned out so far in RP

linksassin

@HellSaint I'm not sure that long casting time for spells wouldn't be reduced with that terrible house rule. Turns occur consecutively, does casting a 1 minute spell take 1 minute total or 1 minute of your turns? So still 6 turns.

HellSaint

@linksassin Well, depends on how the DM chooses to rule, I guess

But it's not like you spend your turn doing stuff and then the remaining 54 seconds doing nothing

linksassin

@Shalvenay Haven't actually got to play her yet. I've just finished building her to replace my druid at the end of his arch. But happy to chat through the motivations.

Shalvenay

@linksassin ah

linksassin

2:14 AM

@HellSaint I think that might be exactly what this DM is saying. Why else would turn durations add up?

Axoren

GWM Greatsword averages 20 at level 1 (40 if the first hit kills an enemy).

In the hands of a Wizard, they can also use SCAG cantrips to increase damage progression

In the hands of a Sorcerer, they can guarantee two attacks without having to kill something.

HellSaint

2:28 AM

@Axoren assuming it hits... which may be a little hard with +0 to hit

@Axoren assuming it hits, which may be a little hard with -2 to hit

Adeptus

@HellSaint Why +0? Why -2?

HellSaint

GWM is -5 to hit, at 1st level, you have +2 proficiency and +3 at any attribute, at most (especially playing as a variant human, which is the only way to get GWM at 1st level), so +0

playing as a wizard or a sorcerer, you don't have proficiency with the Greatsword, so you don't get the proficiency bonus, so -2

Axoren

@HellSaint Use a Familiar for Advantage.

Find Familiar (Owl), Bonus Action Help Action (flies there and back safely because flyby), SCAG Cantrip action

HellSaint

Help action gives advantage for the next attack being made against the enemy. Unless all your allies don't attack, or your familiar is just above you in the initiative order, that's not consistent at all.

Axoren

You can bonus action before your main action.

HellSaint

2:36 AM

In Combat, it rolls its own Initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can't Attack, but it can take other Actions as normal.

Axoren

Oh weird, Familiar is on it's own initiative now?

HellSaint

and with 1 HP, that familiar may not survive long against most enemies...

and with 1d6 hit dice, that wizard may not survive long either in melee range

Axoren

You're right, this is not an optimal build

You're better off focusing on being an Evocation wizard casting 25 damage Magic Missiles each turn

But the fact that Greatsword Wizard isn't too far from feasible is pretty great

HellSaint

I mean... with -2 to hit, it kinda is. Even with advantage that seems just... harsh

Playing that build seems like feeling frustrated a lot

Axoren

Hobgoblins are Proficient in your choice of two weapons

And get a bonus to INT* and CON

HellSaint

2:40 AM

sure but then how are you getting GWM at level 1? :P

Axoren

You'd get it at Level 4 if you're gonna be a Wizard.

Human gets 20 at Level 1

At Level 5, a Wizard would have 2d6+1d8+2+10 which is about 23.5?

At a +5 or +0 to hit

They'd do an extra 4.5 damage if the target moves, and if they kill their target, they get a bonus action attack at 2d6+2 for about 9.

If they choose that bonus action attack to also be GWM, then it's 19

When the stars align, Flex Tape reference

HellSaint

I mean... Yeah... But I'm not sure why you would do that as a Wizard instead of basically anything else?

Axoren

Think of it like a Utility Spork. You could always have a Spoon and a Fork, but this one is special and it's yours.

Arcane Clerics with Magic Initiate for Shillelagh are better SCAGers than Wizards without spending resources. Sorcerers are better SCAGers because Quicken (BB and GFB) and Twin (BB) metamagics by spending resources.

Eldritch Knights are somehow worse with SCAG cantrips even though that should have been their jam.

At Level 8, Arcane Clerics w/ Shillelagh can have 20 WIS and deal 2d8+10 damage to two targets (Green-Flame Blade), 1d8+10 damage + 2d8+5 (on move) to one target (Booming Blade) or 2d6+5 to up to 8 targets (or up to 26 while flying) (Word of Radiance)

Yuuki

@HellSaint Because invisible Wobbuffet pre-evolutions.

HellSaint

@Yuuki I am more confused now. What does Wynaut have to do with something here? haha

Yuuki

2:55 AM

@HellSaint "I don't see Wynaut".

Axoren

Badumtsss

HellSaint

geezz

I ran right into that one

deserved

Axoren

Man, if it weren't for how good Arcane Cleric was past 8 and how unlikely it is for a random group to go past 10, I'd join a random group just to play Arcane Cleric 8/Sorcerer X to see how much mileage just getting Quicken and Distant would get me as a Cantrip user

Quicken Green-Flame Blade would essentially be a Fighter with a Rapier hitting two people. Distant Word of Radiance would be like making a Greatsword attack against everyone within 10 ft.

And going Sorcerer could get you Draconic Toughness, +1 HP per level. Snagging the Tough feat would get you another +2 per

You could invest in Spells that are fairly stat independent on Sorcerer so that your CHA just needs to be high enough to multiclass.

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BESW

8:04 AM

Wizards of the Coast is seeking applications for a Senior Manager of Diversity Equity & Inclusion.

Given their history, I think hiring an outside firm would be much more responsible and likelier to produce real lasting change instead of just turning the position into a revolving door of scapegoats.

The Quest Creator Resource (PDF link) is now released under an Open Creators License. Which is often just an optics thing, but check out the pink boxes--they're developer comments!

Shauntelle Benjamin wrote a twitter thread about what Wizards' DE&I senior manager will face and why there should be two senior managers instead of one.

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