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Ben
12:26 AM
Morning all
 
@Ben Morning
 
Ben
How was/is the weekend?
 
@Ben Weekend was good. Lots of time for D&D games.
 
Ben
Ohh excellent. I'm actually thinking of restarting our weekly game sometime soon. It's in person so that's obviously a bit of a hitch, but everyone is smart, so I shouldn't see much issue
I also now have 4 game nights a week.
 
Ben
12:47 AM
It* shouldn't be*
 
1:01 AM
hey there @linksassin
 
@Shalvenay g'day, how's it going?
 
@linksassin alright here
 
Ben
1:28 AM
2 Days until new mod(s)!
 
@Adeptus I'm in zero campaigns so .. yeah I have no idea why I can see Eldritch Invocations. I'm gonna try something real quick
 
Ben
@Medix2 That sounds like you might want to go see the doctor then...
:P
 
@Adeptus @Someone_Evil I just made a new account, it has literally nothing on it. And for some reason the Xanathar's Eldritch Invocations show up on the Warlock page. No idea what it is really... maybe they're just somewhere in the free adventures
 
1:45 AM
Does anybody have examples of media that uses sunbleached colors and textures without looking depressing/apocalyptic/exoticized? Like, normalizing stuff being worn and used?
 
@Medix2 Possibly a tagging error or something. UA stuff was available to free accounts and a lot of Xanathar's went through UA.
 
Ben
@BESW I have a black tshirt example?
 
Sure!
I'm getting so tired of "grunge."
 
@linksassin Ya know... that very well might be it! Thanks!
 
Ben
Old vs New
The joke shirt is just an added bonus XD
 
GcL
1:59 AM
@V2Blast I could probably consolidate the answers. I saw a comment on the first one which probably should have been an answer in it's own right. So I made that answer. Seemed like doing a 180 on the answer that had been accepted would be disingenuous.
 
Ben
Hey @GcL
 
GcL
@Ben Word.
You're up early
 
Ben
It's Midday for me here
Lol
 
GcL
You're up early.
 
That... looks like a thing that was new but has been used until it's old?
 
GcL
2:04 AM
@BESW A lot of the Outer Banks, North Carolina properties are built with a weathered look. Mostly on account of they'll get it if they want it or not, but on the newest builds, the vinyl windows stand out against the "weathered" siding.
Also, the tones tend to be colorful, yet muted.
Be back in a while
 
Ben
@BESW Yes
Is that not what you were after?
My bad haha
@GcL I'm not sure of the reference. Lol.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:20 AM
I've come to decide that I dislike sundays in the context of rpg.se.
I lost my fanatic badge again somewhere in the ~40 day range. It is always a sunday that lets me down.
 
mind if I poke you with a worldbuildy sort of thing @linksassin?
 
Ben
@linksassin Dangit!
 
@Ben Not the highest I've had. Got to 79 once.
@Shalvenay Poke away!
 
@linksassin so...if someone took this world, and simply deleted spiders from it, what would that break?
 
@Shalvenay Can't say I'm an arachnid expert but I image there would be a lot more of other types of insects.
 
3:31 AM
@linksassin yeah, I can imagine so as well, mesopredator release effects being a thing
@linksassin I'm wondering if other insectivores would pick up the slack though?
 
Seems like a valid question for WB.SE
 
GcL
4:31 AM
Back with you.
@Ben How's the resist/embrace framework going? Done any dry runs just doing the rolls and walking through decisions yourself?
Any prototype quest written using it? Orc and pie and corruption?
 
Ben
Not yet. I think I just need to finish off the Afflictions (if I haven't already), but I reckon it's good to go.
Your mention about the DC mechanic though - could we revisit that?
 
GcL
@Shalvenay Oh man... like, and didn't fill the ecological niche? or are you asking what kinds of things would end up filling in those gaps? Spiders... so many varieties in so many places.
@Ben Yeah. The subtracting from the roll struck me as incongruent with the 5e way of doing ability checks and saves.
 
Ben
Yeah, I reworded it.
> Afflictions Saves: Afflictions will sometimes require a player to make an “Affliction Save”. Players roll a d20. The DC of the roll is equal to the total points players have in their Resistance and Embrace totals (between 0 and 18).
 
GcL
@Shalvenay So spiders end up in basically all terrestrial niches. E.g. inside houses with drywall or plaster are very specialized environments with very low water availability. There's not many insect predators that do okay in that environment.
@Ben Oh that's nice. Simple and you know how far along the path you are.
Why not 1 and 20?
 
Ben
@GcL You can have 1 point, but you could also potentially have 0. You can't have higher than 10 in each scale though (maximum of 20 total), because when you hit 10 in one scale, it resets back down to zero.
So the total DC you can achieve is 18 - 9/10 in both scales
 
GcL
4:39 AM
@Ben That's an interesting thing. So you hit 10 in embrace and it becomes 0?
 
Ben
@GcL So say you have 8 points in one scale. you take 3 points in that scale. You go up to 10, gain a (minor/major) affliction, then you carry the points back over. In this case; 1
 
GcL
Okay. Every ten points grants you an affliction. Can those afflictions affect subsequent rolls?
 
Ben
And since there is no way to add modifiers to your saves, I didn't want there to be any "impossible rolls"
@GcL No. those afflictions have different effects that change how you interact with the world
 
GcL
I kind of like the impossible save potential. You can be so far down the path when you face Diablo, the conclusion is foregone regardless if you win the fight or not.
I like the document thus far, but feel like adding brief vignettes as examples would help make your points.
 
Ben
@GcL There is the Major version - you can choose between keeping the same affliction, without the roll (i.e. your phobia has become so bad that you just can't control it), or a different one. But that leaves it up to the player. They're still in charge by giving up that freedom
 
GcL
4:44 AM
Maybe one cohesive story that follows through the entire document. Possibly two characters whose paths diverge. Rory and Erin?
 
Ben
@GcL Yeah. At this point I think it can do with some play tests - I've also left it open ended because I don't have comparable numbers - how much Afflictions affects the game, how quick/slow it is to build points, how quick/slow it should be to collect points, etc
@GcL That sounds good :) I've added one explaining the Affliction roll, and I do think that adding it to the rest of the document will tiew it all in together :D
Just had a request to comment - Assume that was you @GcL?
 
GcL
@Ben That was indeed me.
 
Ben
Ok cool :) I think I approved you?
 
GcL
When a save is failed, they are given an affliction. Does the score reset at that point as well?
Are all fails resets?
 
Ben
@GcL When they reach 10 points, they are given an affliction.
So, they save vs the influence (by embracing or resisting). Each of these has its own DC. If they fail, they gain points. If they succeed, nothing happens (unless they get a Nat 20).
@linksassin was mentioning having one path to choose from (resist or embrace*) would be a way to go, which I am thinking of adding - but won't change the system too much
 
GcL
4:55 AM
@Ben I interpreted "If they fail, they gain a Minor Affliction." meaning every time they fail the save they get one.
 
Ben
Oh right. Yes.
I need to do a clean up review lol
 
GcL
@Shalvenay It would be interesting to think about wasps might move in to fill the spaces left void by arachnid absence. Also, small lizards.
 
5:34 AM
@Ben I also like a red wine shirt every now and then
 
Ben
@kviiri ?
 
@Ben An incredibly lame pun about black tea x)
 
Ben
Oh hahaha
 
And by extension colour-drink pairs
 
Ben
I though you were making reference to another shirt I have - it has a red stain on the side, with the caption across the chest saying "I'm fine"
 
5:38 AM
3
Q: Does the Iron Flask magic item work on a creature that is immune to the charmed condition?

Ace of SpadesThe description of the iron flask magic item states, in part: You can use an action to remove the flask's stopper and release the creature the flask contains. The creature is friendly to you and your companions for 1 hour and obeys your commands for that duration. If you give no commands or g...

 
Ben
I've used "tomato sauce", "haven't done my washing in a week or two", "it's not mine", and now I'm going to add the "red wine" to the list :P
 
@Ben "You're not ready for that kind of information"
 
Ben
"I'll tell you when you're older"
Always a crowd favourite :P
 
I was more thinking, "the world isn't ready"
"Don't you recognize a xorgax bite? I forgot this was such a primitive planet."
 
Ben
I really need to ope my mind more! Haha
 
6:01 AM
@Ben Also you can say it pretty much always if you intend to tell at some point!
 
Ben
6:14 AM
:D
@linksassin, your thought about letting players choose to Resist or Embrace as part of character creation - to clarify, did you mean that they would only ever take one route - embrace everything or resist everything, or did you mean something different?
 
6:33 AM
@Ben I spitballed a few ideas. I think it was kind of an idea around having the stats as Ability Scores. Probably makes the system more complicated thought.
It's a big departure from the current system I think. So I probably wouldn't worry about it
The idea was about being able to put points into it during character creation. If players wanted to, they could create characters better able to deal with corruption, both at harnessing it and resisting it. But they would have to sacrifice some other scores.
 
Ben
@linksassin Right. Well, I was thinking it could work as an "alternate" system - and potentially streamline the system a bit. So I might work on it a bit then see what you think? @GcL has also made some good comments - some i need to work on still, others I think I'm a bit murky about.
 
My alternative suggestion was to make it super simple. Based a single sliding scale like the Honey Heist System.
 
Ben
@linksassin Yeah. I did have that in there, but after writing it all up it didn't quite fit any more. So that might be another system instead.
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
8:57 AM
@Adeptus tiefling with rhino horns, aka Tuffling. Barbarian Tuffling. Grapple and Hellish Rebuke. Aka Hellish Hug
The Minotaur Warlock and the Barb Tuffling have an ongoing rivalry about their horns
Or the teifling barb with moose horns.
Npc: yeah calm down Rudolph
Tiefling Barb: THAT'S A REINDEER [rages]
 
Reindeer have velvety horns :3 it's really cute
 
Ben
9:24 AM
Mooses (almost called them meese then lol) do too don't they?
 
9:44 AM
Velvet is a give-away for antlers (temporary, grow and fall off) vs horns (permanent).
 
@Ben They do
 
 
1 hour later…
11:12 AM
@GcL the small lizards would be OK, the wasps I could see being real troublesome for lots of folks though
(especially considering that small lizards like that are more of a tropical thing, no?)
 
0
Q: How should tags for subclasses be used?

PixelMasterAs we all know, D&D and Pathfinder have lots of classes, and tons of subclasses, and the same is probably true for many other systems that I'm unfamiliar with. Anyway, I've recently noticed the usage of tags for subclasses, which raises some questions about their usage and usefulness for me; nam...

 
12:01 PM
Heheh. Tags: they don't work like that. No matter what "that" is this time around, it's not how they work.
2
 
 
2 hours later…
2:24 PM
@BESW The longer I'm using this site the less I enjoy (or perhaps understand) the tag system
 
2:49 PM
There's some merit, I think, in the broad principle of the emergent folksonomy. But the Stack's implementation has no teeth; it's the same "we designed this for one specific purpose without thought to its community implications and then turned it loose for applications to other purposes without providing any hard tools for customization" problem that plagues all of the Stack Exchange's infrastructure.
 
@BESW I'm wondering if looking into the company's original goals and plans for the tagging system will make my perception of the system not working make a lot more sense
As in, it probably works somewhere and what we have is the thing that's trying to work everywhere. An attempt/ideal which can only ever go so well
 
5
Q: With regards to Stack Overflow, why and what is the philosophy behind tagging?

Daddy WarboxSorry if this counts as "navelgazing meta-discussion", but I'm actually wondering because part of a system I'm building for a tool of mine will be intimately driven by user tagging, so I'd like to learn how the tagging system works around here for reference. The exact workings of the system are ...

And check out the revision history on these answers.
59
Q: How do I correctly tag my questions?

Joel CoehoornHere are some tips for tagging questions. These guidelines will help you more accurately tag your questions, which in turn will help them get more attention and lead to better answers faster. For more information, see "What are tags, and how should I use them?" in the Help Center. Return to...

 
Yup, I'm looking at all of them now (old and new)
There's definitely a lot of... Stuff that goes into tags, I think I've just given up on having it make perfect sense since a folksonomy never can/will
 
Yeah, that's... as intended, really.
It's the ol' crowdsourcing concept: never works perfectly but most of the time works well enough.
 
And I've (mostly) stopped worrying about "This question has 5 tags but shouldn't it have the [stacking] tag? What to change? Do I open a Meta?" and just decided to let them sit instead since any possible answer is somewhat arbitrary
 
3:02 PM
But then they took their system that works "well enough" for one very specific application, and generalized it.
 
And now it's just being repurposed/used to hopefully work well enough elsewhere
 
Yeah. But without giving the locals any tools to actually adapt it to their local reality.
 
Yeah... Some things just won't make sense to me it seems, ah well
 
All we can do here to force tagging to work for us is... come up with increasingly convoluted exception-based rules which, over time, defeat the entire purpose of an emergent folksonomy BUT ALSO can never properly fix the problems we're dealing with because the rules are applied only by word of mouth, there's no way to bake them into the local system.
I sometimes draw comparisons between the Stack and D&D: they're both systems originally designed for specific custom purposes by a relatively small group with niche needs, and then they got applied to increasingly dissimilar use cases, at first out of passion but eventually the ballooning created economic pressure to not admit that their product isn't the best thing for everyone everywhere to do everything.
 
3:26 PM
Heh. If you follow me across rpg meta, you'll see me spend years trying to figure out and advocate for the system to make it work as well as possible, and then slowly become disillusioned.
 
Whereas I'm getting to watch it in reverse
I'm getting strong memories of that history professor I had who taught reverse-chronologically
2013 post effectively saying the [attack] tag is useless. The only positive score answer there agrees and says to remove/synonymize it.
2020: Approximately 625 questions have the [attack] tag. I present: Folksonomies
 
Yeah. People love putting labels on stuff and sorting even when it isn't especially helpful.
Overtagging usually isn't harmful though so it's not usually something worth adressing.
(I'd guess that a vast majority of those questions aren't really helped by )
 
We discovered the hard way that proactively curating tags creates more problems than it solves; only step in when a specific problem has been diagnosed in the wild, not when we think something is going to be a problem.
(And "this isn't tidy" is not a problem in this system, because that would destroy the core premise we've been forced to accept with this tagging structure.)
 
Yeah I'm unsure whether I should give up contemplating the "usefulness" a given tag especially when there's no real harm/confusion occurring from a tag existing
 
Is there anything in the official dnd-5e books on the various ways of handling character death? (Like making a replacement character of the same or one less level, or handling gear, or the like?) I'm pretty sure I have a handle on the various options, but I wanted to look through the official word first since I thought there was something but I can't find anything relevant in the PHB or DMG.
 
3:39 PM
I certainly trust that more experienced users, who have, well experienced various tagging practices have seen what's work and I'll take into account to their judgment and the like with such matters
 
@Medix2 That's honestly basically where I'm at.
 
Why do words never mean what I think they do... Defer --> refer
Okay that didn't work either... I'll settle for "take into account" XD
 
@BESW Yeah when Metas come up about tags that might be a problem some day I have a hard time mustering up any kind of enthusiasm.
 
@Rubiksmoose Apologies for times I asked about tags when they weren't actually problematic; when I was more strongly trying to neatly box and categorize things
 
@Medix2 No need to apologize! I don't think it was ever problematic from you or anyone else perse, certainly nothing that ever negatively affected me in particular :)
In retrospect it might have been good for me to post on those metas to try to redirect energy elsewhere that could be more beneficial. But in the end, people will do what makes them happy. And I can certainly see organization of the site being one of those things .
 
3:51 PM
@Rubiksmoose Woo! Yeah I wasn't really sure how to say "I'm apologizing but not seriously but also yes seriously???" Was more a "hope I didn't cause any/much trouble" (that's the phrase!) than an apology.
 
In fact, I'm pretty sure I've made a few of those tag posts myself.
 
What I've learned by using this site: I will probably not stop learning about this site and the community
3
 
Same! It's amazing how even after daily use of this site I'm still learning more about how it works.
 
[wry] Or doesn't work.
I still remember when I suddenly figured out that "Pearls Not Sand" was Bad, Actually.
 
@BESW hah! That too.
@BESW Yeah and that's y'know kind of a Big Deal
 
3:59 PM
I spent so long defending that piece of h*ck.
 
@BESW I'm unsure if this is the place for it, but I would genuinely be interested in hearing your thoughts/conclusions regarding that policy. I've heard... Calling them "mixed reviews" would be putting it mildly
 
@Medix2 I've got a rant about it starting here:
Nov 13 '19 at 21:59, by BESW
Seriously though, "Hooray for the askers" is potentially huge if it really is the beginning of a systemic rejection of Pearls, Not Sand.
With links to other related rants.
 
4:16 PM
@PeterCooperJr. I don't think so. There isn't anything in XGtE either (AFAIK), so unless some adventure makes notes on, I think the books are just mute on the topic
 
@Someone_Evil I'd assume Tomb of Annihilation says something but I don't know if it actually does. Time to flip through it again
 
4:29 PM
@Medix2 Yeah I think all that ToA says on the matter is "A replacement character should be the same level as the rest of the party"
 
GcL
5:02 PM
@PeterCooperJr. OotA offers this snippet: "Allowing the chips to fall where they may in combat emphasizes the challenging nature of this adventure. However, if the characters start falling just as fast, you might want to give the players some opportunities to return dead characters to life during the lower levels of their progress through Out of the Abyss."
@PeterCooperJr. TftYP has an alt option for character death, but also offers "New Character" as an option.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:11 PM
@Medix2 And there's the implicit advice given by the AL treatment of character death in ToA.
 
6:55 PM
@JohnP I am also glad that you have a job. I guess the various recommendations paid off?
 
7:15 PM
@BESW He might have been better to simply discuss Sturgeon's Law
 
 
3 hours later…
10:23 PM
21 hours left in the 2020 Moderator Election! Don't forget to get your votes in.
@Medix2 I do use them still, but generally just as support for a rules-based answer. I'm sure I still have a bunch of old answers from soon after I joined the site that are just Crawford tweets - I edit them as they pop up in my notifications :P
 
Is there a best place for "related questions links" on your own questions? I'm picking between putting them into a comment and just at the end of the question itself
 
10:50 PM
@Medix2 Either is fine, but I personally find it weird when an asker puts up a comment with related questions. It just makes more sense for a comment being someone else pointing out related questions to the asker (and other readers)
 
@Medix2 Rigorous comparison is the only way I've found. Though D&D Beyond has this forum thread listing errata changes starting in October 2017.
 
I like using comments, myself; the Stack is generally of the opinion that it doesn't matter who is adding content, we're all completely interchangeable little cogs in their content-generating machine, so I'll leave comments because that's how I'd do it if it weren't my post (I could edit related links into other peoples' body text but I wouldn't, so I won't do it to myself either).
 
@Medix2 I usually stick em in comments, unless there's a specific reason to include it in the question (e.g. "I saw this question, but it doesn't address my specific use-case" - usually to indicate "here's why my question's not a duplicate")
I prefer to avoid cluttering the question body with... stuff that isn't the question
 
@V2Blast Yeah I opted to chuck them at the end with a "I believe my question is different from these really similar questions because XYZ"
@V2Blast Yup that's what I ended up doing, thanks!
 
11:36 PM
hey there @nitsua60
 
11:55 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer (248): If a spell caster loses concentration on Greater Invisibility, and an opponent has readied a reaction, what happens first? by strong baba on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
 

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