TRPG General Chat - 2020-05-18 (page 1 of 2)

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1:19 AM

shipwrights by Will Jobst is a letterwriting collage game. we are shipwrights. in our ports, we can feel each other’s work through the wood, the rigging, the sail, and rudder. we may never meet another shipwright, be we know their touch, their thoughts.

Hot RPG Questions

2:11 AM

2

Q: Does multiclassing suddenly allow you to cast spells from Magic Initiate (or other similar features/feats) using more spell slots?

The following question already exists and explains that you can cast spells gained from the Magic Initiate feat if and only if the class you choose is the same as one of your own: Can you cast a spell learned from the Magic Initiate feat using spell slots? So let's assume a Wizard take the Ma...

dnd-5e feats multi-classing spellcasting spell-slots

@nitsua60 For reference, that "warning" is also laid out at the start of DMG chapter 9: Dungeon Master's Workshop (p. 265):

> Beware of adding anything to your game that allows a character to concentrate on more than one effect at a time, use more than one reaction or bonus action per round, or attune to more than three magic items at a time. Rules and game elements that override the rules for concentration, reactions, bonus actions, and magic item attunement can seriously unbalance or overcomplicate your game.

@V2Blast Good to know. The DMG says you shouldn't use Artificers =D

lol

Remind me to never allow for a Druid/Monk multiclass (5e-dnd)...

@Medix2 why's that?

2:24 AM

@Shalvenay A unfortunately still ongoing argument about Monster actions and the Attack action and... yeah, I think I'll just make a ruling and say that that's just how it's gonna be

2 hours later…

4:00 AM

Hey all, question for the room. Am I the only one that really can't see the issue with the steel defender speech question?

2

Q: What ways can you give a creature the capability to speak?

I am looking for ways in 5e to grant the capability of speech to a creature, ideally permanently. To be specific, I am interested in granting an Artificer's Steel Defender and creatures like it the ability to speak. For instance the Steel Defender's stat block states it "understands the language...

dnd-5e monsters languages

To me it is clear, well researched and with a well defined scope. Yet it has 4 close votes and multiple up voted comments saying it doesn't suite our site.

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: Is there any way for a character to create a magical disguise that wouldn't be automatically defeated by a creature with Truesight?

I'm attempting to come up with a solution to the question in the title, but have been unsuccessful thus far. Some monsters have the Truesight ability which states the following (emphasis mine): A monster with truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical darkness, see i...

dnd-5e spells monsters disguise special-senses

@PeterCooperJr. I dunno if this is suitable for your needs, but take a look:

20 hours ago, by BESW

Shoot 'n' Loot by Mitchell Salmon is a Rules-Lite Tactical Shooter TTRPG with Millions of Guns, Powered by the Apocalypse. It uses a unique map-drawing approach to fast-paced, lightly tactical combat. It contains everything you need to jump straight into a setting-agnostic high octane world of explosions, bullets, and mayhem.

I know it includes a note on PvP battles that if a disagreement sparks the battle and it isn't entirely inside the fiction, to stop immediately. "If the disagreement is the between the players, the game world is not the place to resolve that."

4:34 AM

0

Q: Isn't my question about LARP opinion-based?

Two years ago, I asked a question. It was about a problem that most Russian LARPers know about, a very practical problem. The answers were very helpful, and since then, I have also discovered some solutions myself. Now, rereading the answers, I notice many of them look: Non-mutually-exclusive...

discussion specific-question

Hot RPG Questions

4:56 AM

4

Q: Could you explain the meaning of warlock invocation number next to its grade?

I am rolling a warlock in my current campaign and we started at level 3. For my invocations, I have picked walk unseen and fell flight. I was told I could not do that by my DM since he told me my level wasn't enough. However, when I referred back to my Complete Arcane, it mentioned: A least i...

dnd-3.5e warlock

5:28 AM

Games of #RPGSEA a collection by Role Over Play Dead. Showcasing just a few of the diverse and original RPGs and larps created by the vibrant Southeast Asian scene!

2 hours later…

7:36 AM

Morning o/

7:53 AM

@linksassin I left a comment:

Relevant metas: What are list questions?, and Are questions of the form “what are all the X with property Y” on-topic?. It's not inherently an issue with all questions that would result in a list, but rather with overly broad questions that result in an effectively unbounded list. The more specific your parameters, the more answerable the question is likely to be. That said, further discussion on this topic should probably be handled on Role-playing Games Meta, whether or not this question gets closed. — V2Blast ♦ 1 min ago

@kviiri yo. \o

3 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

10:49 AM

3

Q: Can the shove from the Minotaur race's Hammering Horns trait knock an enemy prone?

The minotaur playable race has the Hammering Horns trait, which says (GGtR, p. 19): Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to shove that target with your horns. The target must be no more than o...

dnd-5e actions racial-traits prone

2 hours later…

12:40 PM

@nitsua60 it is still a mess

@nitsua60 not to mention "how many?" tweets from crawford confirming the count. @T.J.L. has an answer in that comment streat that points out why it can't work like that - infinite recursive loop kind of thing -

@nitsua60 insert here the usual rant of "why oh why didn't they think twice about those names" :>

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, but I'm completely opposed to mining Twitter to figure out what the rules say. If he's answered it that much on twitter, they should throw a confirmation into SAC. (Which I was surprised, really, to not find there.)

@nitsua60 I agree 100%. Why that isn't in the SA Compendium remains, to me, a puzzle.

@nitsua60 Slapdash After-thought Calibrations?

1:05 PM

@BESW Squamous Ante-revision Corrections, I thought.

Pecan, pecan, I suppose.

Suddenly, A Crawford!

howdy howdy

@BESW <casts *banishment*>

Serialized Anti-Cheese

Anyone here used World Anvil before?

→ 10 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

1:24 PM

@Maurycy That's a map making tool, yes?

@Someone_Evil MOre like campaign/setting design tool and I guess campaign runner?

Ah, right (I only heard about it when I was trying to find a good map making tool which explains the association on my part)

2:11 PM

Downvote Monday, I guess. Already have 3 downvotes today :(

@NautArch Have you annoyed anyone?

@Someone_Evil probably

3:06 PM

@Medix2 Gee, it's almost like the shove action/shove term wasn't well thought-out for the hammering horns. <fry shocked face>

@NautArch How many more do you need? I've got a few free minutes.

@GcL gotta get 'em all

@NautArch My crap reservoir for giving is pretty low. Anything you need prioritized?

@GcL Hmnm, maybe my answer on the BOlts from the Grave question.

On it. Bolting straight for the grave.

3:20 PM

I'll also take constructive criticism.

but a downvote works, too :P

So sorry. Used up my last crap to give finding it. At a glance about the same as MikeQ's answer. Nothing particularly offensive about it.

goldarnit!

Peculiar that it's the only down-voted answer out of the lot of answers that are essentially a consensus.

Yet again, I blame the cats.

@NautArch Yeah I read Shield Master and I was like... Dammit they have a really good point

@Medix2 I think the clarity is what I tried to put in my answer, that this specifically shove 10' and does not give a prone option.

@Medix2 I'm still really leaning towards updating that other question to be about Orcish that's in the body.

3:29 PM

@NautArch Yeah I edited the title and dropped a comment though they haven't been online (or at least not had activity) for eight months

ah, okay. you're on it!

@NautArch Yeah I just did my best to give them the benefit of the doubt and was somewhat shocked that it did have near-identical wording to Shield Master.

Anybody know if moderators can see activity that's not in the "Activity" page?

@NautArch The shield master doesn't either, but it does reference the special shove attack.

@GcL RIght, it references an existing attack option: the shove. Hammering Horns specifically says what it does.

Also says it does the shove.

3:31 PM

BUt it doesn't limit the results of the shove,which the horns do.

BUt honestly, I'd likely allow it, and I think it's just sloppy editing by WoTC.

I'd also allow it to be done prior, like I do with shield master.

I think that details the push effect.

I can see the interpretation that it limits the "shove a creature" special attack generally given in the PHB.

My interpretation is that there are two interpretations XD

@Medix2 I don't think so? Not in that section of the user page at least. Depending on what specifically you were looking for I might be able to answer more specifically.

@GcL I personally don't. The language says you can shove to push someone 10' away. It's a specific limitation. If they'd left that out, it'd be like SHield Master and just be the standard shove action.

I think I'd let the player take the detailed shove, general shove, or general knock prone. Wouldn't try to frankstein the effects together.

3:34 PM

@Rubiksmoose Some examples: A user's comments, or deleted posts

@NautArch That's not an explicit limitation though. It's not saying you can only do this.

Shield master isn't the standard either. It gives a note about the range of it.

Yup, it's a weird case for sure with this shovey stuff

I just can't see Hammering Horns replacing only the 5 foot push given that it's worded in such a way that the saving throw always happens

@GcL HOw is it not a specific limitation. It gives you exactly what you can do, how it works,and what the effects are.

Yeah. Not a fan. Either shouldn't have defined shove as a special attack in the first place, or should have chosen a completely different term for the new thing that is definitely not a shove.

and it's a 10' push not the normal 5'.

So it's already different, which I'm going to add.

3:37 PM

@NautArch Yeah, but it doesn't say you can't do the normal shove. It says you do that normal shove. If anything, it appears as though it might be additive.

@Medix2 I do tend to forget what normal users can see, but can't 10k+ see deleted posts in this section?

You do a shove.... which is a thing.

Or it says you do a completely unrelated shove... Yay natural language

@Rubiksmoose Nope

I can see my own "recently deleted questions"

3:38 PM

Yeah. Naming is hard. I think I'd like it better if it were called something different. My vote is for "horny nudge"

@NautArch Looks like somebody's got a case of the Mondays <sadface>

@nitsua60 I'm sad I can only down vote your chat once.

Like here's my recently deleted answers and I have no idea what that looks like when people click the link

We can only see deleted posts if we have the link

@Medix2 404 page

@Someone_Evil It looks like everyone can see comments though here right?

3:39 PM

Oh yup, so that works

@Rubiksmoose Yes, all non-deleted comments

@GcL <wink wink>

Say no more. Say no more.

OK so we can see deleted posts in the profile.

I was just wondering whether Mods had a better sense of the last time a user was "Active", turns out they do

3:41 PM

@Rubiksmoose But can you see the ones I typed, but didn't submit, but then thought about again for a while before closing the tab sometime later?

@GcL oh yes, those I have texted directly to me since I find them very entertaining. ;-)

I'm now wondering what "comments deleted within seconds of being posted" look like as a whole...

I pride myself on inventing new swears, yet never telling anyone.

@GcL I find your use of furniture and plants in them quite tasteful and provocative.

I read provocative as proactive...

3:45 PM

@Rubiksmoose It's formulaic really. Regular swear + something you find in a big box store. I find hardware merchandise works best.

Just try some out in your head. They're really entertaining. If you remember the formula, it makes shopping more entertaining and other people nervous as you giggle your wear down the plumbing isle.

1 hour later…

5:06 PM

Is it just me or is this question's style actually making it hard to understand?

@Medix2 No, it's hard to understand. At first, I thought it was a dupe of their first question.

and it's different enough to not be, but it's close.

Yeah, it's hard to understand.

Could somebody explain to me why this question is not a duplicate of this one?

because one of them is about a more specific case, in a system where specific cases are allowed to override general rules?

@Medix2 Former says you learn the spell, latter doesn't

5:20 PM

@Someone_Evil Former says neither

Or latter or one sec

This one is only using Drow as an example

> You learn the Misty Step spell

And an answer to it would address both features that say you learn/know a spell and features that don't

Either that's the case of the title "If you have the ability to cast a spell without a spell slot, can you cast that spell using a spell slot?" should be changed to "If you have the ability to cast a spell without a spell slot, and the feature granting this ability does not make the spell learned or known, can you cast it using a spell slot?"

Or it should be edited to be specifically about Drow which I don't believe is the case. Right?

I can just open a Meta actually...

Changing the (title of) questions to emphasize an aspect pointed out by the answer sounds... awkward

Agreed, so either the title is wrong or the answer is incomplete

And if the answer is incomplete... I feel it's a duplicate question

burninate?

5:29 PM

@NautArch burninate who or what?

(what's burninate?, oh google's got me)

@Someone_Evil everything.

but was joking with regard to the duplicates

"The countryside" is the obvious answer I guess

Like idk, it just seems horribly weird to me

Especially since "Can I use spell slots to cast the spell granted from the Fey Teleportation feat additional times?" is open, even though the difference is from the answers and not the question while "Can a tiefling cast spells from Devil's Tongue using Sorcerer/Bard spell slots?" is closed, even though the difference is in the questions and not the answers

@Medix2 Seems cleaner to ask about the feature you intend to ask about, rather than trying to construct some kind of category it fits into

5:33 PM

@MarkWells I'm not sure what you mean?

The problem is that there are three questions. One is asking a general question but using a specific example as an example. The other two ask about two specific examples that are technically both covered by the more general question

5:47 PM

@Medix2 I mean, there's a question about Fey Teleportation. If that really is completely covered by the general question then it's a duplicate. But if there are any odd wrinkles about Fey Teleportation that make it uncertain whether the general principle applies, then it should stand as a separate question, because someone's got to do some analysis to determine if it's different.

And I don't think there are any

In fact, we don't know whether the Fey Teleportation question asker even contemplated that it could matter whether a spell is known/learned or not

In that case it's a separate question, because the answer is going to need to explain why that matters.

But answers to the general question would also do that

Himitsu_no_Yami

Can someone explain something for me please? I was looking at the edits for a question and saw what looks like one word replaced with itself with no changes. Ie: "against the ~~target~~ target."

Does every warlock have to be edgy?

Himitsu_no_Yami

5:51 PM

the ~ was meant to be a strikethrough

@Himitsu_no_Yami linky?

@NautArch Yes.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@NautArch rpg.stackexchange.com/posts/169060/revisions

@MarkWells Darnit. Going ot have to make some roleplay change to my warlock.

@Himitsu_no_Yami chat strikethrough is three dashes each side of the word(s)

Himitsu_no_Yami

5:51 PM

@Someone_Evil thanks

Do you mean 18d --> 1d8?

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Medix2 it's under that one yes

@Himitsu_no_Yami Odd, I don't see it

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Medix2 woops, it's not under that one

it's under "reorganized info for clarity; added DDB link; fixed formatting; clarified phrasing; edited tags"

i'm not seeing anything either

5:54 PM

Which line do you mean?

0

Q: Do we need different tags for Numenera and Numenera Discovery?

Should we have different tags for Numenera and Numenera Discovery/Destiny? Numenera Discovery and Destiny are two products which make substantial changes to the game Numenera. Monte Cook Games has said these are not a new version, but the answer to many (probably most) questions will differ ba...

discussion tags

@NautArch The etymology of the word connects it to "oathbreaker, deceiver, betrayer".

Oh

Himitsu_no_Yami

user image

I misread which it was under initially but it's still there

Interesting indeed, as that is not on my display

5:55 PM

Ah, that view is combining both additoins and subtractions. Check this one out.

OH, you're using inline view

Himitsu_no_Yami

why would it show a word being removed and then added instead of being left alone

user image

I think it's just @V2Blast juicing their edit-stats.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@NautArch can't view anything from i.stack.imgur..... (can view i.imgur tho for whatever stupid reason)

5:56 PM

@Medix2 It could, yes. I wouldn't close the Fey Teleportation question as a dupe unless the general question actually had an answer that explained it, like "If the feature says you learn or know the spell, then X. If it just says you can cast it, then Y." This is much more useful than trying to gerrymander the general question down to cover only one of those cases.

@Himitsu_no_Yami just switch your view to side-by-side markdown

@MarkWells Closing as a duplicate based off of answers sounds very wrong to me

Look at the sources, V2 replaced the quote which means the line breaks and >'s are in new places (the normal view obfuscates this

Himitsu_no_Yami

weird

@Medix2 If there isn't such an answer then we have neither provided a useful answer, nor really demonstrated that it's a duplicate.

6:00 PM

I can easily provide such an answer, hmm yeah, I'll just go do that

@Medix2 The goal is always always always to be useful, not to have everything sorted into neat boxes.

@MarkWells Yeah I think I got a little carried away in that, apologies. Thanks for the reality check. I think I'll just write up a comprehensive answer and let it sit there

@MarkWells But don't we get more internet points when things are put neatly into boxes?

:p

@nitsua60 Doesn't he already have max stats for edits?

@Medix2 I think one of the more newbie-hostile behaviors we have as a community is "No, you can't ask that, there's already an answer in this here haystack." If you need subject-matter knowledge to understand why a question is a duplicate then it's likely not a duplicate. (As opposed to if you just need to be pointed to the other question and asked to read it.)

6:12 PM

I just assume V2 is going to come through and sort out my formatting issues.

@MarkWells Yeah... apologies for that

@Someone_Evil If we sort the boxes into bins, does that exponentially increase the point score?

@GcL What if one of them looks like a box but turns out to be a crate?

@MarkWells fat loots?

6:59 PM

@GcL The original UA: Waterborne Adventures version basically referenced the general shoving rules, but specifically said you couldn't shove prone. The 2018 UA: Centaurs and Minotaurs changed the language to include the rules for the shove within the trait description itself.

Per the Dragon+ episode linked in one of the answers, that change from 2015 UA to 2018 UA was intentional, so that it wasn't telling you "look up this rule, but ignore half of the rule"; the trait is meant to contain all necessary information about how it works. The final published version lets you shove the target 5 feet further back and uses your bonus action to do so (the 2018 UA used your reaction), but still does not reference the general shoving rules and is not meant to shove prone.

@V2Blast Doesn't "you shove a creature" seems to reference the general rule to me. At least, that's how shield master does it. Dragon+ seems like a good RAI reference.

Even though the Dragon+ is talking about the 2018 UA, it's surprisingly illuminating about how the final version is intended to work, because the trait barely changed from the 2018 UA version.

@GcL It would reference the general rule... Except it uses totally different rules that are themselves detailed in the trait :P

I'm not a fan of a more specific version that has the same term as the original.

Str save instead of contested Athletics/Acrobatics checks, pushing back the target only

yeah

New thing. New name.

7:06 PM

definitely a weird choice of words

lol

Had a clinical protocol that did the same name, but new thing. Wasted a bunch of expensive material and cells when a new person didn't know that "AIM V Media" didn't mean "AIM V Media" that you buy from the company, but "AIM V Media that you buy plus a bunch of other stuff necessary for cell growth". It was like calling a cake "flour"

@Someone_Evil Yep, it's because the author used the automatic blockquote formatting (instead of just adding a single > at the start of the blockquote), which separates the quote into multiple lines and adds a > at the start of each line. Thus, removing "Shocking Grasp (Range: Touch)" meant the first line was weirdly half as short as the rest, so I just removed and readded the automatic blockquote formatting to adjust for that while making the other changes :P

@V2Blast In trying to come up with any meaningful answer to address feats that give spell like Fey Teleportation it turns out I have no idea what a "learned" spell is...

@Medix2 I'd assume it's a spell you "learn", i.e. another name for a known spell/a spell you know? (as opposed to spells you prepare/have prepared)

Ah, so then a Wizard could prepare a learned spell?

Hmmm I can work with "learned = known"

7:19 PM

@Medix2 I don't think so, Wizards just prepare spells which are in their spell book. But a Bard learns spells which become known

Yeah realizing a Wizard can only prepare spells that are in their spellbook, not just any spell they know, so you couldn't add a learned spell into the spellbook unless you found it in the wild in written form

Isn't a learned spell one that has gone to college for a while and has a few PhDs?

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Rubiksmoose explains why bards know their spells

@Rubiksmoose feeblemind is its worst nightmare

hehehe

7:38 PM

@Rubiksmoose Sure, those just aren't always the smartest of spells, and definitely not particularly useful ones. I really dislike it when my spell starts arguing the semantics of target and the ontological validity of the fiat boundary I want as the area of effect. FFS! Just blow it up!

@Medix2 that's Dr. feeblemind to you.

@GcL Gotta hate it when the spells start talking back eh?

@Rubiksmoose I have spells devised by academic wizards have longer casting times. Like, the perfect fireball in theory... which the adventurers might note isn't going to be that great since it takes nearly a minute to cast. I blame all the citations and footnotes.

that's actually Keith Baker's argument for why hundred-year-old Aerenei elf wizards aren't any better than mid-20s humans in Eberron, he did a blog post on it a few weeks back :-D

But it's worth it because the academic version has .1 average increase in damage!

basically, the elves spend six times as long learning to do an Aesthetically Perfect Traditional Aerenei Fireball, Passed Down Our Society For Centuries

they've had six times as long to practice but they're also way more perfectionist about it ;-)

7:45 PM

The Armstrong Family Fireball? ;-)

@Rubiksmoose Or is provably better for the purposes and criteria of the journal of spherical near instantaneous effects.

@Rubiksmoose Possibly a bad example, as the Armstrong Family Whatever usually did work pretty well, even in a combat situation.

Very true!

Armstrong Family is about where the Aerenei are, tbh!

(no worse than the very functional human sort, just more elegantly proportioned!)

@GcL "Y'know I'll just cast the abstract."

7:50 PM

lol

I'm entertained.

@LizWeir Also, don't have to get better under pressure. Having to learn how to get it cast while running around with a bunch of non-wizard crazy people that pissed off a bunch of giant scorpions gives insights you just don't get when you've got all the time in Arenal to sit around and do it ... ya know... whenever you get around to it.

e.g. Did you know you can cast fireball without any arcane prepositions by substituting the third magic pronunciation of f-star ?!

"I was going to spend the next few years writing a treatise on the aesthetics of Magic Missiles, but actually I think I'll get my old notes out and turn my theoretical understanding of how a fireball works into practical."

@V2Blast Thanks for the cleanup :)

No problem :)

@V2Blast Welp... I think I've managed only to confuse myself further XD

8:03 PM

about what? lol

Say a Wizard took Magic Initiate and chose Wizard. They haven't actually prepared that spell

They merely know it

@Medix2 oooh. meaning they can't upcast it unless they have a means of adding it to their spellbook?

@NautArch That is what I've concluded, unfortunately

Which the SAC directly contradicts

I voted; go ye forth and do likewise.

Or rather, the SAC states that a Wizard would learn the spell "which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare."

And I just don't see why a Wizard could add this known spell into their spellbook

8:07 PM

@Medix2 could

if your DM allows spell scroll creation?

Don't new wizard spells have to come into written existence somehow?

@MarkWells I think new spells gained at level just show up in the book. you odn't have to write them in.

@MarkWells The two you gain per level just sprout into existence (there are narrative ways to explain it, but none are provided)

which means the MI could just show up, too. But given that MI is something anyone can do, it doesn't seem like wizards should get anything special just for being a wizard.

@NautArch Our DM applies the charge, using the Wizard class spell description on how wizards are always taking notes as his basis

8:09 PM

That would be a pretty serious oversight if anything else about leveling up had a narrative explanation

@KorvinStarmast oh dang, really? They force you to spend time/money to get the new spells going?

@NautArch yep, though the time is often folded into a few rests/down times between levels. But the gold has to be expended.

@KorvinStarmast but yeah, for all the Wizards in games I've played, the assumption would be that they're constantly working out formulae for new spells by doodling in their spellbooks, and when they finally get a couple of them to work, they level up

@NautArch Narratively, the wizard writes them in (after understanding how they work, etc. over time) - but mechanically, the wizard doesn't have to do anything and the spells are basically just added to the spellbook the instant they level up, as you say

@KorvinStarmast oof

@KorvinStarmast that seems kinda/sorta unfair. I mean, if you long rest/level in a dungeon, you need to take another 4 hours to copy the spells down?

8:11 PM

@NautArch He also keep asking people if they have skill points in a skill also. Some of his 3.5e habits die hard.

@NautArch Not unfair. If you plan ahead, it's not a problem.

@NautArch Also, I don't play wizards in his game.

@NautArch We did have a 3.5 DM who wouldn't allow the Wizard to discover new spells at all; he HAD to find them all in scrolls / spellbooks somewhere, and the DM was incredibly stingy about this, because it was the only way he knew to keep Wizards semi-balanced.

@KorvinStarmast So you have to metagame plan ahead? I mean, if it works for your table, that's great. I just personally think it's an extra gate that's unnecessary and kind of a bummer.

@NautArch Quite frankly, I agree with my DM (who also happens to be my brother). You should be planning ahead on your spells you get, and whatever you find is "great! Bonus!" etc. It works fine, and it avoids "oh, wait, I leveld up, what spell do I want" crap during play. With the players we have, it's a VERY good idea.

This is why leveling up generally is done between sessions... so it doesn't happen during play regardless

His other thing is "if you haven't made up your mind by the time the session starts, you can wait until after next long rest." For our group, it works. @V2Blast Indeed.

8:15 PM

the issue NautArch seems to be addressing is the gold cost

(well, the in-game time expenditure too)

@MarkWells That's the result of my DM's policy, more or less.

but the gold/time cost being applied to spells gained from leveling up has nothing to do with deciding what spell you want or when leveling up happens in out-of-game time

I'm just wholly unsure whether Wizards for some reason can prepare spells they know while all other prepared casters can't...

@NautArch I do the long level up to avoid such issues.. and the ding you're higher level issue in the middle of a dungeon. 2days/new level or 10 days... whichever is fewer.

@Medix2 Why can't other prepared casters do it? Because the spells aren't on their class spell list?

8:20 PM

@Medix2 ?? Clerics and paladins know all of their spells, as do druids. Their problem is 'which one do I prepare?'

That's mechanically. Narratively they ask for the spells after each long rest if they want to change any of them.

@MarkWells Because the spell isn't prepared

One of the things I like about the Warlock is that the spell source is the patron.

@Medix2 so they can't prepare it?

@MarkWells If it's not a class spell? I would say no

@MarkWells You can't cast a spell unless it is fixed in your mind. They way it gets "fixed in your mind" varies by class. See chapter 10

8:22 PM

@Medix2 They could prepare it if it was on their class list.

@Medix2 Right, but for Magic Initiate, you pick a class list, and you could pick your own.

I don't disagree with anything you've said?

They get a casting for it at lowest level without having to prepare it. If they want to do anything else like cast as a ritual or use slots for it, they'd have to prepare it is what I get from the rulings.

If a Druid learned a non-Druid spell, they cannot prepare it, right?

That's my understanding.

8:24 PM

Okay yeah, then I think we agree?

@Medix2 are you talking about magic initiate?

@KorvinStarmast Or anything else really

@Medix2 share with me how a druid knows a non druid spell that she then cannot prepare.

what are some examples?

I don't think Wizards can prepare a cleric spell they learned from magic initiate. So they can't prepare all the spells they know in that case.

Cure light wizard.

@GcL right. It is fixed in their mind in a different way than Wizard spells. the magic initiate thingy.

8:27 PM

@KorvinStarmast Fey Teleportation feat, or various racial features

@KorvinStarmast Does magic initiate fix it in their mind? If that feat fixes minds I think I should take it a few times just to be sure, because mine is busted as hell.

Does it clean minds as well? I'd rather not have that happen.

@Medix2 OK, you have a Q&A on this yes?

PS, I think racial feats stink and were a lousy idea

IMO, feats should not be restricted by race.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah I wrote up an answer I'm just... annoyed at what the rules seem to say

@Medix2 I tend to treat those racial magical ability spells like a daily power kind of deal, separate from spell slots since you don't have to be a spell caster to use them. Yes, a drow barbarian can cast a spell. Yay drow. :p

To me the key is that they are not spell slots; they are like a half orc's "drop to 1 HP rather than 0 and rest on a long rest" type of deal

@Medix2 The only racial feat that is to me even remotely OK is the Prodigy feat... but I'd be tempted to take the prodigy feat and the Skilled feat and merge them into one that is usable by all races.

Had a chat about that on GiTP not too long ago.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah the racial feats... not my favorite things. A lot GM's I've had either ban them or say anybody can take any of them

8:33 PM

@Medix2 I banned them, and I agree with your answer

@KorvinStarmast In other versions they'd probably be spell-like abilities maybe?

@Rubiksmoose Yes, and Crawfords tweets have become unreliable over time. (Sadly)

Alas! If we can't trust a Tweet what can we trust.

@KorvinStarmast They were reliable?

lol

8:37 PM

@Rubiksmoose I am so not going to bite on the RL political undertone of that comment Mr Moose. ;-)

I do still think his tweets mean something, he is literally the lead rules designer. And honestly, kinda shows the human-ness of a person that they'd flip-flop on some rulings

@Medix2 Yes, mostly, up until the time he changed his mind on Shield Master ...

@KorvinStarmast I see you rolled well on your trap spotting perception roll ;-)

@KorvinStarmast Oh the woes of the Shield Master feat

@Rubiksmoose double grin

@Medix2 It's still a good feat if your party fights as a team, but it made no sense to me to now allow that shove at any time ... that's the whole archetype and This Is Sparta!!!!!

8:40 PM

@KorvinStarmast Yup, whenever I DM there's a lot of timing things thrown out the window

sorry, channeled Gerard Butler there

@Medix2 I have lost confidence in them. (But I've also lost confidence in the design team as a whole what with some of the utter dross coming out in UA, and the Acquisition Incorp book ... that's not a setting, that's a naked marketing ploy by the little "in group" in the Seattle area .... sigh)

@KorvinStarmast I never know how to feel about UA... sometimes they're interesting, sometimes they're even good, and sometimes I'm just baffled something was even released

I AM FED UP WITH BEING PISSED ABOUT! I want a game in my own language and in my own time zone, and I want it NOW!

Ahhhh... what a relief to actually say what I want. I'll probably be banned from the chat on the spot, but it was worth it.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@A.B. easy there... deep breaths...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

(huh, I actually did the !!!!!!111111 thing.)

8:51 PM

@A.B. did something happen at the table recently that got to you?

I am sick to death of being told to calm down, be polite, and not say that things are bothering me while they happen over and over and over and over again. And being given advice about how to calm down and keep quiet about the things that are bothering me.

I don't like it. And it hardly makes sense to expect me to.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Which language, unless it's a secret?

Himitsu_no_Yami

I'm not trying to tell you to keep it in by any means. I'm sorry if it came across that way

That somewhat off my chest -

Something happened at the repeated lack of table that got to me.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I never had a campaign in my language in my life. (I once played a PC who mostly spoke in my language, for all of about 4 sessions or so until the campaign died, but the rest of the campaign was in a different language.)

Himitsu_no_Yami

8:54 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Infernal (jk)

True :-)

I may have mentioned before that I've been trying to join a bi-weekly Stargate IRC role-playing game in German.

Well, I just missed yet another one, because they told me the wrong time, and nobody seems to think this is a big deal and are cross with me for being unreasonable enough to complain about it.

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