TRPG General Chat

@JinLong Where do you get the impression that's how historical reenactments work?

@JinLong that leaves out the people that play dungeon runs with personality-less characters just for the fun of the challenge (for example)

@Helwar I think modern RPGs add a host of interesting elements, the one I'm particularly interested in is the shared interactive fantasy.

user15026

...which all of those things we described have.

1:01 AM

@JinLong but by your definition these people are not playing RPGs

There were all sorts of board games before. I mean, if you want to be extreme about it, chess is a battle simulation, and even with distinct roles.

user15026

@JinLong what about solo RPGs?

@Helwar definitions aren't my chief concern, but sure.

user15026

@JinLong I'm not talking board games.

I would say if all you're doing is crawling through some dungeon and rolling battles, with zero plot, story, interaction, etc, that's not interesting to me.

user15026

1:02 AM

But that doesn't mean it isn't an rpg

user15026

It just isn't one you want to play.

@JinLong nor is it interesting to me, but it's still an rpg. One player is playing the role of the thief, another is playing the role of the mage, etc... They might not be enacting a soap opera, but they still roleplay to a point

Yuuki

@Helwar Enacting a soap opera would be historically inaccurate as we all know that nobody bathed in that time period /s

badum tsss!

@Helwar if we keep reducing it, any tabletop game is an RPG :) Chess is "playing the general of a battle", etc

It's a different topic, but I think looking at a game that has, say a thief / fighter / mage, and maybe a dragon, treasure, dungeon etc

And calling it an "RPG"

user15026

1:09 AM

@JinLong lots of RPGs don't have that.

Is an example of something coming to be identified with it's shallow, most outwardly aspects.

user15026

So you're defining RPG based on D&D?

Look, I'm camp "Zelda-is-not-an-RPG-no-matter-what-Nintendo-puts-on-the-box", so no need to convince me. But we are stuck here trying to define RPGs and there are all this valid counterarguments that make all these definitions either too broad or too discrete

Like, for example, if we look at a video game that's a dungeon crawl, but has all the classic outward elements of D&D (like the aforementioned), it's still very much not an RPG.

Yeah, that's why I said I'm not primarily interested in definitions :)

I'm interested in particular elements, specifically interactive story telling.

That's why, throughout the discussion, I focused on that element.

It's part of my broader view of RPGs, in which it is the most important element.

And you don't think that ancient cultures had interactive storytelling?

1:14 AM

@NautArch doesn't seem to be any evidence of that.

Not even recent ones before the 20th century.

user15026

Wait....what

user15026

Okay nope, I'm out.

And, he was literally out

@BESW Particularly when many activities that fit into the word cloud are not the kind that leave a lot of textual or physical evidence.

@JinLong I haven't done my own research on this, but I'm pretty darn certain humans have been telling stories together collaboratively for a pretty long time.

1:21 AM

@NautArch that's the thing, that there's no evidence of that afaik.

If you have examples, that would be interesting.

@JinLong as I've said, I haven't done research. I could, but so can you. But I'm fairly certain that collaborative storytelling has been covered historically by anthropologists.

@NautArch the discussion started when I cited an article that asked why there were no RPGs before the 20th century.

Yeah usually burden of proof falls down to the one presenting the issue?

Depends. If I say "there's no evidence of RPGs before the 20th century", that's a claim. You can refute it.

I can't prove the lack of something.

If you claim it exists, you must prove it.

@JinLong did you link to that article? I may have missed that.

1:27 AM

@Helwar Yes, but the weird thing is that nobody was actually advancing the proposition that "there were no RPGs until the 20th century". They were claiming something else that was predicated on that.

@JinLong and you can't just claim it. You need to show the research that shows the absence.

Hey, I was the first one to say: Ok assume you're right, why didn't they play?

"Interactive storytelling never existed until a century ago" is a pretty extreme claim to make, and needs some pretty extreme evidence.

@NautArch of course you can, in history. I can claim "there's no evidence that France ever invaded Australia", you can then refute it.

Notice there's no way to show something positively didn't exist. What am I going to do, post a pic of a bunch of history books, "none of these contain evidence of a French Australian invasion"? :)

Claims don't stand until refuted

Especially when they're not demonstrated in the first place

1:29 AM

@JinLong I think I'm probably going to bow out, but linking to your original article with this assertion is a must.

Especially if we're going to discuss in good faith.

@doppelgreener in this case they are.

Except the users here aren't anthropological experts, they're just random RPG fans in a chat room. They do not have the evidence on hand. So even if they can't provide evidence to disprove your point, you're still trying to prove a negative.

Given the fact this conversation is demonstrably making people uncomfortable—and for good reason—I am going to issue that it ends now. Anyone wishing to continue it may do so in Not A Bar.

I'm actually not trying to prove anything :)

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.

2

1:32 AM

thanks for stepping in @doppelgreener

So, given that this entire debate is pointless and silly, I will return to my original silly point, and declare that tabletop RPGs were played by dinosaurs, who in turn learned the rules from space aliens

@MikeQ Correct

Who in turn learned it from us

@Helwar 👍

@NautArch 🤯

My claim is unfalsifiable. Thus is it is true. QED, quod erat diplodocus.

1:33 AM

@MikeQ Meteorite was the dinosaur's DM when he was fed up with their bs :P

Rocks fell

Or was it just rock fell?

@MikeQ Sounds like a good game premise to me.

:)

Somebody pinged me about games that discard combat as a primary mode of competency, but I had trouble figuring out the context.

Is that still a thing people want me to talk about?

I'm confused

1:39 AM

I did not ask, but I wouldn't say no to you talking about that!

Do you mean, is it still a thing people are surprised by?

Because there are a ridiculous number of games that don't involve any combat whatsoever

Both in RPG form and otherwise

No, more like "is that still r🐘 to the people in the chat."

Oh

It's a big topic, I'd like to know what was being asked specifically but the context was a bit confusing.

Mk

1:42 AM

I wasn't here when that happened so, I dunno, sorry

I...don't think I was there?

idk either :P

on an unrelated note:

RIP my Monday night Lancer game

Or at least, my mind is garbled enough with this stomach bug that I don't remember

9 hours ago, by David Coffron

@goodguy5 @BESW is much more familiar with a wide range of other systems that have well-developed non-combat mechanics, but one I like to point to is FATE where "Challenges, Contests, and Conflicts" are the focus, rather than combat

Oh!

1:44 AM

@V2Blast Has it been slain by the dread monster Schedule Conflicts?

Nope

the GM said they found that they weren't connecting with the Lancer campaign like they do their D&D campaigns, and sort of leapt into a campaign when they should have probably done one-shots or something short. and that the campaign premise didn't really play to Lancer's strengths as a system, and was basically all combat

That was less about combat-less and more about games that allow and encourage through the rules and mechanics non violent resolutions

@V2Blast :(

@Helwar indeed

@V2Blast on the other hand...they didn't force something they weren't enjoying

1:46 AM

Yes, which I definitely understood

But still a bummer

I like combat games but I've only grown in appreciation for games that either exclude combat entirely or shove it to the side

@goodguy5 Do you have a "mister sucky"? (The little bulb for sucking snot out of nostrils?) I loved that thing.

user15026

@Helwar they, if you meant me

@Ash I meant you, yes. Apologies. They then, will try to remember :)

1:48 AM

@goodguy5 Vegimals!

@nitsua60 your missing end parenthesis was bothering me so I fixed it :P

(We also heartily endorse Little Einsteins and Backyardigans. And I'll second the Wild Kratts mention.)

@nitsua60 amazingly, we never had to use suction on a kid's nose...yet

@NautArch had to? Got to, you mean!

Hahaha

1:49 AM

Can I try and bounce some ideas with the chat?

I don't know how elastic your ideas are, but you can try

:P

We're terrible at that

haha, they might be very bouncy

So... I've recently started a 5e campaign, they're lvl 2 for the moment, investigating the appearance of oozes in the sewers

@Yuuki The old David Macaulay books (Pyramid, Cathedral, Medieval Town, How Things Work, &c.) hold up really well, too. I still find my kids (ranging from 7-11) sometimes spending an hour lost in one of those.

@Helwar oooo(ze)

1:53 AM

I had an idea for an "enemy". The basic idea is: A bunch of kids get magical "symbiotes" (fae spirits!), and decide to become "super-heroes". All these kids are in difficult situations, like being poor, abused, or something. The fae spirit grants them powers according to their imagination, and they use those powers to "help"

like, beating the tax collectors, fighting abusive parents, etc...

The idea is for the players to encounter them at some point while they take care of the oozes, and go towards the "super-kids" arc

Too heavy to meet a kid hunting oozes?

so I have the "story" elements pretty tied up, but I don't really know how to define these kids rules-wise

@MarkWells "Et tu?" is just a corrupt record? It was actually "A two!?" Because Caesar rolled a 2 on his DEX save.

10

well at first they will not know they are kids, they take their supper hero appearances (think fantasy power rangers or something silly like that)

@Helwar even better!

1:58 AM

@Helwar This premise sounds like it would make a really neat book or comic, but be very tricky to implement as a collaborative RPG

@BESW context: that conversation started with the below message by me, in response to the question linked immediately above it (tldr: "I'm going to put a fight in front of my players, how can I help them understand there's other options beside fight back, like hiding or running away?")

But for mechanics, how powerful do you want them compared to your party?

9 hours ago, by doppelgreener

@NeutralTax related to the question but not revising it, something to consider is that D&D itself is leaning heavily on your players to choose combat. It's a system built such that violence is the best solution to most problems, especially ones where violence is already happening. Even when it's not the cleanest available solution, it's the primary means of advancement so you're incentivised to engage in it anyway.

@MikeQ Maybe, true. That's where my "where do I get the mechanics for this!" issue comes from, I think

"The World Gameplay Reveal of Baldur’s Gate 3 will be happening LIVE at PAX East on Thursday 27th February at 1530ET. Join Swen live on stage with a special guest, and if you can’t, we'll be streaming to YouTube so you can be involved no matter where you are in the world."

1:59 AM

I feel like my players will like the conundrum (the bad guys think are the good guys, and they even are kids!! can't just kill them and say it's done)

Are they bad just because they're vigilantes?

@Helwar (is that the message you meant to be replying to? I'm confused and might be missing something, it's late)

@doppelgreener eh, no, bad reply! I meant to reply to MikeQ, apologies!

👍

@NautArch No. Some of them are vigilantes, true. But they're abused kids with too much power and revenge is on their grasp. Some might go full evil

still defining it

2:03 AM

@Helwar For starters, you probably shouldn't try to gotcha-surprise the players by changing the premise of the campaign. Especially when dealing with serious topics (e.g. childhood trauma) that they didn't sign up for.

[sneaky edit to fix the reply before sleep time]

@MikeQ Not for that. They were promised a morally gray campaign, and that's what they are getting (their ooze extermination is just a job they got to pay for citizenry...)

goodnight folks o/

@doppelgreener Oh thanks! Good night!

Certainly not trying to get a "gotcha!" but make it interesting for them

@Helwar Kind of a Sailor Moon monster-of-the-week feel to that.

2:06 AM

@doppelgreener night night

@MarkWells Maybe, yes. The thing is there's reasons why the fae spirits are out there

@Helwar are the kids working together or totally in isolation?

A few are together acting as a group

And how strong compared to your party do you see them?

@V2Blast Wow, feels like that was just announced

2:12 AM

I feel like "i will make your imagination real" spirits should be powerful. I kinda wanted them to be out of their reach at first, like they will encounter them at lvl 3-ish, I guess, depending on how the ooze thingy finishes. But I want them able to do something about them

the most basic idea is make characters at the appropiate lvl and that be their "super hero personas"

but it lacks some "magic"

I'm open to ideas though.... that's why I wanted to bounce them a little

@Helwar Specifically using PC mechanics? Like, they have class features?

@Helwar I would would agree that there hasn't been a Zelda RPG yet, but think about how awesome a witcher style zelda game would be.

@MarkWells it's an idea. It's not that I particularly like, but it's the first I thought of

@MarkWells @Helwar I like the idea of making them PCs. A little call back that the characters are superheroes

But you could also make them avatars of what they're fighting

Come up with the enemy first and then craft the superhero nemesis for it

@Helwar I tried creating some bad guys that way, and found them unmanageable if I had to run more than one at a time. PCs have too many options, especially if they have spells.

2:19 AM

I think my favorite moment is when our bard tricked the rest of the people at the dinner party into solving murder by tricking them into believing it was part of the the dinner party. And then we took all the cities elite to confront the real killer and nearly got the entire city elite fireballed,

@NautArch That's an idea. Lore-wise there is no reason why the spirit would have to grant them the same powers every time

@Helwar Are these spirits supposed to be kind of like patronuses or more like personas

@NeutralTax patronus = harry potter thingy, what's a patronas?

Oh..

I'm tired, ok

i think I'm going to use the word "patronas" now

hum... Think of the spirit as Venom the symbiote. The kid has powers, the kid either turns into or creates a "persona" to control (My idea was the first)

The spirit in itself is inmaterial

2:23 AM

That sounds cool as all hell

Do you want your players to control what they can turn into?

Hm.... no. It's for the "enemy" kids

oh

Anyone have any good d&d stories?

The fact of the issue is: I created reality bending powers. Cannot merge this with a mechanically heavy setting as D&D xD I'm a moron for trying, but...

The reality bending powers are for the enemy not the player, correct?

yup

2:27 AM

I think you should go with Nautarch 's idea, mainly because I can't think of anything.

Yeah, it's a good idea

@Helwar Quick question, do you play on a map?

this game it's in Roll20, so mostly yes

I've always wanted to run a game in roll20, but I didn't feel like making that many maps

Don't subestimate the power of google search

2:30 AM

I need to get some of my players running a game

Its so exhausting having to always do the prep work

that and just scribbling a few lines in an empty grid

good luck with that!

I normally just have them place dice to mark their position

I'm the eternal DM, I kinda like being one though

I like being a dm, its just that the game I'm a player in has gone on hiatus. I love dming, but I need to be a player once in a while

@Helwar I approve of the majoras mask avatar

Skull Kid doesn't need your approval! Skull Kid has friends!

:)

Q: Can I train a cat familiar to be a rogue?

2:36 AM

@Helwar I like your super hero kids ideas, but be sure that the story is still about your players. It can be easy to put the npc's you've spent hours as the spotlight of the story

4

Can I train my cat familiar to be a rogue? If I can, how does it level up and would it be able to wield weapons?

That's the easy part about them being kids. They are not mature enough to advance the story. Nor will they take the spotlight (not much, at least)

ok

I mean, the advice is solid and pertinent

I will take care with that

but I feel that the story will go to "what do we do with these kids? do we let them go on? do we stop them? how?". So it will be players making choices

I think.

Ok

Are the kids doing anything morally questionable? or is it more "Can these kids fight without getting themself killed?"

they are doing morally questionable things. Like beating up tax-collectors, or stealing, or beating the crap out of "bad people"

2:40 AM

Sounds interesting, i want to know how it turns out

imma gonna peace out, night everyone

night!

GcL

2:51 AM

@Helwar are there consequences for such things?

Q: When using the Augury spell, how good or bad does the outcome of the course of action have to be to justify a response of Weal / Woe?

@GcL There should. If the players are able to put two and two together and learn who the "vigilantes" are, others can

also being mixed with the spirits historically never ends well for the kids but that is long-term

GcL

@Helwar So if the consequences are foreseeable and the vigilantes are known, that's the hurdle for the story. How to change the behavior to avoid the consequences or fail and consequences happen.

Hot RPG Questions

8

My players are planning to use Augury to decide whether to enter a dungeon, and I'm trying to decide what the outcome of the spell should be. I can see that some extremes should be obvious: for example, if the dungeon contains four ancient dragons that will annihilate them, it's Woe. If the dung...

dnd-5e gm-techniques divination

Yup. I'm not much worried story-wise about it. The players will direct how the issue is handled

I was mostly worried about: reality-bending, imagination based powers. How do I do that in D&D? xD

Answer is you don't and should not try, but I kinda insist on fitting this round piece into the square hole...

3:18 AM

@GcL just so you know, any future conversation on that topic was already directed to NAB, so I deleted your reply.

3:33 AM

According to d20 Radio, Fantasy Flight Games is planning to discontinue future RPG development long-term, but all RPG products currently announced and in-production RPG products will be delivered: d20radio.com/main/…

3

> We have also confirmed that this will be a long-term endeavor, and that all currently announced and in-production RPG Products by FFG will be delivered. This means that the highly anticipated Starships and Speeders essential vehicles collection for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, as well as the Secrets of the Crucible Keyforge campaign setting for the Genesys Roleplaying Game will, indeed, be delivered and provide exciting official content for both RPG lines. It is still unknown, as of yet, what impact this plan will have on the fan-created content hub of the Genesys Foundry.

@V2Blast That's sad :(

Yeah

Here in Spain publishing RPGs is like the wild west lately

Devir stopped translating and editing, and they did have a lot of games. Then there was a dark age of no rpgs in spanish

then EDGE took it upon themselves to publish almost everything

but then they passed on Star Wars and D&D,

but this other company stopped doing so and another one has D&D

so right now there are people with 3 nearly identical handbooks from 3 different companies

but the last 2 companies that had D&D, don't have any downloadables, so if I want to download a character sheet to print, i have to go to EDGE's website, but they don't sell the game anymore @_@

it's weird

GcL

4:01 AM

@V2Blast You missed the start of the conversation. Probably should move the entirety of it over.

@Helwar You can do that so long as it's not a player. Reality bending stuff happens all the time: anti-gravity fields, dragons, spheres of annihilation, etc.

@Helwar Whatever the mechanic, make it observable, investigatable, and ultimately predicable at some scale. That way the players can see it, explore it, and deal with it.

E.g. the super being could do anything, but via experience with the matter and investigation they discover that it mostly tries to set up frozen yogurt franchises. So find the next location for a good prospective frozen yogurt fortress, and you know where the super being will be. Then lay an ambush.

Likely include stories or anecdotes where the super being accidentally used their powers and smacked themselves in the face. Figuring out how to flip god-like powers back onto themselves is pretty gratifying.

Also, if the players make plans or assumptions about how it works... just run with it. "Yes, and..." is a very entertaining way to run things.

@GcL with yogurt minions? xD

@GcL yeah that makes DM lives easier. They make their own solutions

4:29 AM

I'm gonna go to sleep

thanks for the help :)

@GcL We didn't actually move it:

3 hours ago, by doppelgreener

Given the fact this conversation is demonstrably making people uncomfortable—and for good reason—I am going to issue that it ends now. Anyone wishing to continue it may do so in Not A Bar.

Also, further confirmation of d20 Radio's report about FFG: twitter.com/lindevi/status/1229810153312182275

> [A Twitter user:]
Hey, @FFGames / @davflamerock / @lindevi / @MaxCBrooke - Can you respond to this article from @d20radio stating you are planning to discontinue your RPG lines?

[Katrina Ostrander, Creative Director of Story & Setting at Fantasy Flight Games:]
Yeah. This is the answer I gave to people asking about the L5R RPG when I ran it last weekend.

6:45 AM

Completely apropos to the discussion that was at hand, the Brits have invaded Russia, during the Crimean war. We even have a song about that.

@kviiri Also the Archangel Campaign.

@BESW Oh, I didn't know of that. Interesting

Q: Can you train/call a Blink Dog? If so, how?

I didn't either! I googled "Britain invade Russia."

Just like I learned about the Atellan Farce by googling "improvisational theater."

Hot RPG Questions

9:02 AM

7

In my RPG game, I'm an elvish druid who was gifted a Blink Dog familiar and I am trying to find the familiar's owner (a wizard) and the dog follows me around but out of my sight. I have attempted to call it the way my master has (using it's favorite toy) but it has yet to try and collect it like ...

dnd-5e

1:04 PM

@nitsua60 We use the Nose Frida.

@nitsua60 bree!

Gotta say, I'm a bit surprised at the community's positive response to Dale's answer on the blink dog question.

@NautArch Why?

Because it seems like a ruling from a DM and not a definitive answer.

If it was a DM asking, I think that's a possible answer. But for a player asking?

And, as I added, humans are trainable ... Why not fey?

@Powerdork Short bow works well with flying creatures for a monk...long bow if the monk is a wood elf.

Or a kensei

1:14 PM

@NautArch As I pointed out in the comment, the OP seems to expect "training" to mean training as one trains a dog. Humans are not (generally) trainable like that.

Ah, I see that you're not married!
(ba dum tiss)

@goodguy5 Oh if only you knew.

@kviiri we potty train our kids (housebreaking), we train them to come when we call, etc

Humans are just like any other animals

And 100% trainable

Brutus: Since the fighter's annoying me, I stab him.
Caesar: lol
GM: Roll to attack.
Brutus: I got ... I got a 20? uh. I didn't mean to crit this
Caesar: wait. I don't think I can survive that
GM: And I remember you were behind him, so that's a backstab bonus, so...
Caesar: don't I get to dodge?
GM: Roll to dodge!
Caesar: A two!?
GM: Well, that's ... all of the fighter's remaining HP and then some. He's super dead.
Brutus: Whoops
Longinus (the wizard): Uhhhhhh. Whoops
GM: ... I've got this spare character sheet you could use?

@NautArch That's not a good comparison.

1:17 PM

I think most folks don't like to think of ourselves as animals

But we are

No, I very much do. But that's still a huge leap to humans being trainable like dogs.

For one, we know what the thing in the mirror is.

But most importantly, if their DM thinks they are trainable...they are.

@NautArch look, if I'm in the shape of a dog and someone starts shaking a shiny toy and saying "here boy!", I'm going to slap them and give them a talking to.

@NautArch So no definitive answers to any lore questions apart from "ask your DM"?

1:19 PM

I feel like there's a semantic difference of terminology.

I agree that you can *teach* people behaviors.

But the term "training" implies a certain amount of .... idk... beholdenness? power differential? something like that.

Nah, it's not the term itself. We "train" people at work all the time. Or people at the gym are training. But the context of the question clearly implies "training" in the sense of training a dog --- eg. teaching it to come on command despite it possessing a human-like intellect.

@goodguy5 yeah, there's difference in what the training implies

@kviiri this isn't a lore question

@goodguy5 and I think that's semantics. Teaching and training are pretty much two ways to do the same thing

it's multilayer
philosophy and semantics: can humanlike creatures be trained?
mechanics: are there training mechanics that you can use on a blink dog?
lore: does the lore say blink dogs can/can't be trained?

But again, outside of the philosophy, how this particular blink dog will react to whatever this player does is up to their dm

1:27 PM

Well, let's dispel the semantics of "training": the player wants to train the blink dog to follow their commands, heel to them, and do that over following any previous owner. You could train me to do that (see: the military), but you would not be teaching me the way you teach a dog.

So...it had a previous owner that did.those things? That suggests something, no?

So e.g. if you hold out my favorite toy and expect me to come to your side on account of that, you're doing it wrong

@NautArch No, we just know it has a previous owner whose lead it follows. No implication the previous owner did any of these things.

@NautArch I was in the army, and if they told me to do things, I did. I would not do the same if you told me to.

"Come here. want to play your nintendo switch? Come on. "S - W - I - T- C - H?"

I still think any specific judgement here is the role of the DM.

We're all making a ruling, but we're not their DM

1:30 PM

We're here to offer guidance and expertise, so we can at least advise on likelihoods

That seems

Opinion based

But fine

No longer with arguing about. I see your point. I just disagree.

I kinda see your point, at least I think so

I mean, the GM might see "blink dog" and assume it's... well, a dog. That blinks.

Someone_Evil

That implies the existence of unblinking dogs, which I'm not quite comfortable with

6

And yes, Dale's answer would be better if it also pointed that out, but it's still a sound take on how I'd expect a blink dog to behave.

oh no. It's okay. They're not unblinking because they keep their eyes open.

It's because they have no eyes or eyelids. totally innocuous.

1:35 PM

People also like th idea of tressym's as pets or animal companions and this issue wasn't brought up...

But cats and dogs?

Hehe

But maybe that's beast vs fey and not about stats?

Thing to consider in the more practical section here: it takes several generations (somewhere between ten and thirty) for a wolf to become domesticated the way dogs are. Prior to that they just don't really care what we want, but they're willing to independently cooperate as it suits them. Modern horses are also domesticated breeds; a wild horse is not as keen to be ridden and will not simply let you ride it day in day out. It will buck you off at some point when it's had enough of you.

We know nothing of this blink dog or it's previous family history

Just that it had a master?

@NautArch Gary G would approve of that comment.

Come to think of it, a great example of an animal we can get along with but that isn't domesticated is a cat. As best we can tell, housecats come from breeds that got partially, but not completely, domesticated.

Cats can be trained and there's even performance shows like we see for dogs, but it's very rare, takes a lot of skill and patience, and is significantly less reliable.

Yup, apparently they just like getting rewards (who doesn't?)

1:45 PM

@doppelgreener We taught a relative's cat to offer her paw. Took ages. When we showed a video to another relative, she remarked "Oh great --- will you teach her to bark next?"

And you can teach them to use a potty, too

Mingus for the win

@doppelgreener having been assaulted last night by a cat I've cared for and asked nothing of for thirteen years, I second this.

@NautArch Don't cats go for sand instictively, you don't even need to teach them?

Not sure

Maybe?

At least that's my understanding

1:47 PM

I've never had a kitten

@doppelgreener Possibly true for 4e, not sure why you think it's true for 5e.

Ofc you might have problems like the cat finding their sand box unsatisfactionary

The same almost-relative's late griffon Jalo was actually a good example of canine pliability, in that he had been rewarded for tricks with food for all his life, but in his later days he lost most of his appetite and yet did the tricks without taking the food offered in return.

Motivations changed. My old dog was tennis ball motivated, but became food motivated later in life

1:53 PM

@KorvinStarmast That was definitely true for 4e, but has been true since at least 3e. Please don't act like I have no reason to see why the game that devotes half your character sheet to HP, weapons, offensive spells, and other things that mainly concern violence, and devotes large portions of its rules to combat, and has entire books about things to kill, and adventures that mainly involve serial combat, might not have any particular inclination towards violence as a system.

2

I've played systems that don't care about combat and systems that explicitly disown it and this definitely isn't one of those.

I'm happy to talk about relative involvement levels but not from a starting point that feels disingenuous.