TRPG General Chat

12:08 AM

@DavidCoffron I just now realized Year, Quarter, and Month are all identical

12:19 AM

So I just got a blue notification on spam/offensive comments in a chat room under an answer from a stack I'm not even a member of. I've never received this sort of notification before, did something change?

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Nope, chat is moderated by all mods on the network. Which also means things get resolved really quickly

Medix2

@Someone_Evil I'm just confused why I got a notification, or perhaps why I've never seen one before, since I'm not a Mod

Adeptus

I think it's high-rep users as well as mods

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Right, SE and the term "mods". 10k mods do a review process as far as I understand it

Medix2

Huh, guess I've just never seen it as a notification like that before

Someone_Evil

12:31 AM

They're easy to miss because they get resolved really quickly, and aren't distributed to everyone (as far as I know)

Medix2

I've done stuff with the review queue, just never seen it actually be a numbered notification, normally there's just some red circle in the corner

Someone_Evil

Chat UI as opposed to main site UI

Medix2

I guess so, just weird that I'd never had a flag or review for spam/offensive before, or literally anything from a non-RPG.SE site. Guess that says something

user15026

@Medix2 They're rarer than they used to be.

user15026

Like a LOT rarer.

user15026

12:37 AM

And they get handled pretty fast, so you gotta be like...looking at the screen as tehy happen. :P

nitsua60

1:18 AM

@Ash Even then, sometimes by the time I click it's [poof!] gone....

(Unless it's in Russian. Those tend to stick around as a hundred people click "not sure" before a Russian-speaker comes along.)

nitsua60

1:47 AM

Anyone have positive experience with Obsidian Portal or the like, and want to sell me on what free option to choose for my kids' campaign?

jgn

@NautArch Huh? Isn't that the entire problem? I missed where they said they are ok with it; "Firstly, I am not really comfortable role playing sex, and the same goes for the other players. In previous campaign, we already dealt with sex, but it was always kind of "off screen" scenes. Everyone seemed to agree on that way naturally, and we never spoke about it."

jgn

2:09 AM

Anyone have a link to the SE comments guidelines?

nitsua60

2:33 AM

@jgn rpg.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment

That ^^ one?

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: What happens if you start your turn in an occupied location?

Based on the answer in this question Can you use the pull effect of Thorn Whip if the enemy is within 5'? if a creature is unwillingly pushed/pulled/dropped or otherwise forced to end its turn in your space, what happens? I can't find anything saying what happens. All i find is that you can't wi...

jgn

3:07 AM

@nitsua60 I'm looking for more of a guidelines in deletion.

Medix2

As in when moderators delete comments?

Medix2

3:50 AM

@jgn You may find these helpful as well: "Is it good practice to delete my own comment after assimilated into the question / answer?, "What is the user policy for up-voting on comments, incorporating the advice of the comment, and then flagging the comment as no longer needed?", "Etiquette for explaining removed comments?"

nitsua60

4:08 AM

@jgn This is probably the biggest signpost in that area:

31

Q: Why are site comments being deleted?

Some site users have noticed old comments being deleted. This is correct - site comments are meant to be a mostly temporary means of improving questions and answers. Here's an explanation of the process we use. Argumentative comments or extended discussion comment threads hijacking an entire q...

discussion faq comments

Medix2

@nitsua60 That's the second time today I've heard of people taking issue with mxy, odd

user15026

5

nitsua60

@Medix2 Odd, indeed. I'd ask where the other one was, but I'm tired and don't want to fall down a meta hole. I've already just added a second answer on to a nine year old question!

Medix2

@nitsua60 I'll link to this answer from which I found some more history I hadn't known about

nitsua60

I do love SSD's answer on "a tidy castle is easier to keep safe from trolls."

@Medix2 Oh.... yeah. If you're digging that deep, you'll find some arguments. Not sure anyone comes up roses from some of those interactions. (I didn't actually read the post you linked, just saw the first word/link and knew where that trail led.)

Medix2

4:24 AM

Yeah I'm not sure whether I want to go and learn the history here, I think I'm best off not diving into things, especially since the site (presumably) has changed quite a lot since anything that could be called "historic" happened

jgn

6:43 AM

@nitsua60 "yes, I'm "bent" on upholding SE-wide best practices." <- any idea what this is referring to?

Medix2

7:09 AM

@jgn It just seems like mxy would delete comments for being too chatty (which the site instructions seemingly agreed with), though people took issue with it, or perhaps just the immediacy of it. So mxy was upholding the practice of deleting chatty comments (presumably)

jgn

7:41 AM

@Medix2 Well I know that, but I mean where is the SE-wide best practices that they are referring to

Medix2

7:52 AM

Is it not simply the fact that the tools literally say to delete comments if they are chatty?

nitsua60

10:16 AM

@jgn My read on that is it's mxy's understanding of what's best practices around SE. That'd be a compilation of their reading of help center documentation, meta.SE posts, their participation in meta.rpg conversations, conversations in back-channels with the other elected mods and SE staff, conversations in the shared space that Network mods use, comparison of our site with the results seen from laxer comment-moderation on other sites, &c.

In other words, I'm not sure from reading whether he's saying it's best practices as he understands them or if he's thinking of some specific instruction from SE. I, personally, don't know of a particular post or document that would settle the matter on comment-deletion beyond any argument.

doppelgreener

12:17 PM

context:
- The question talks in part about how comments sometimes just leaving tangential information will be deleted, and important information should be rolled into the answer.
- Aramis argues that comments play a role of adding tangential information “that adds value to the site, but not to the answer itself. But it's this very role which mxyzplk seems bent upon prohibiting.”
- mxy says yes, I am in fact bent on doing what we're supposed to be doing, which is in fact prohibiting that role, because comments *do not* play that role

mxy is not referencing some kind of singular SE best practices document, he's referencing the comment privilege page itself as well as what nitsua60 summarises (fusing lots of sources). among the sources is that stack exchange historically values a high signal to noise ratio, where straightforward high quality Q&A is signal and comments are predominantly noise.

we talk less about it nowadays, but back in 2011 when that interaction happened the company was still very actively talking about signal-to-noise ratios

nitsua60

12:43 PM

@doppelgreener And this site was younger, so it seems (based on reading old metas) like such things were being hashed out in practical application much more.

goodguy5

1:10 PM

<ITAG>!

jgn

1:29 PM

@doppelgreener But that's some circular logic isn't it? Mods aggressively delete comments because comments are ephemeral and should be deleted. Comments shouldn't contain useful information because comments will be deleted because they shouldn't contain useful information. The comment privilege page only says that they can be deleted.

doppelgreener

No, that's not how it goes.

@nitsua60 Yeah that's accurate. That's kind of on the tail end of figuring things out. Granted we'll still have people make similar arguments because it's how other sites do things because of their domain needs. Our domain needs occurred differently.

NautArch

2:12 PM

@jgn Yeah, that was my bad. I misinterpreted romance. OP clarified and I updated their question to be crystal clear about it with their comment.

Carcer

2:22 PM

you look different today doppelgreener

have you had a haircut

doppelgreener

yes! i'm glad you noticed

i took a little off the top. that gave me a negative underflow glitch i could exploit to get long hair suddenly.

goodguy5

I always knew that Doppel was a mermaid

Carcer

nice one

my hairdressers calls that the "Nuclear Gandhi"

@goodguy5 I think the technical term is merperson

goodguy5

I said what I said

Carcer

which I submit should be shortened to "merper" for reasons of comedy

NautArch

2:26 PM

@Carcer merpergreener?

Carcer

@NautArch doppelgreemer!

NautArch

@Carcer doppelmermer?

Carcer

@NautArch doppermerper

sadly hats is over or we could have had a dappermerper

NautArch

hahaha

Informal poll: Do folks here who play 5e generate their own traits/bonds/flaws/ideals for their characters, or do you roll on the background tables?

Carcer

@NautArch I have never once paid any attention to traits/bonds/flaws/ideals and have ignored that section entirely when making characters

no GM has ever brought it up

NautArch

2:37 PM

@Carcer none of the above, i like it!

Character development is one part of the table I play at that is sorely lacking. It's kind of a bummer.

Carcer

to be honest I kind of view them as a helpful tool for people who are new to roleplaying to get them to think more about their character traits and get in character, but I don't see them as necessary for someone who knows what they're about

doppelgreener

@Carcer good ol nuclear gandhi maneuver

Carcer

oh good you're alive. I was briefly concerned we might have mortally offended you with the mermering

doppelgreener

all of that was great to catch back up on :D

Carcer

but I must confess I lied

I don't have a hairdresser

doppelgreener

2:43 PM

oh no

how could you do this to me

Carcer

I haven't had a haircut in at least 12 years

doppelgreener

and who told you about the nuclear gandhi maneuver

Carcer

probably a cracked article.

doppelgreener

that sounds plausible

NautArch

@Carcer Even though i've been playing for awhile, they still help in character personality. But again, my primary table really doesn't delve too much into it. I've also learned more recently that complicated backstories (or even simple, but detailed) really aren't necessary and in fact stop me from me developing a character as I play them.

Carcer

2:50 PM

@NautArch yeah, I think most people kind of have to go through a process of feeling out a character before they really settle on a personality

maybe it's better to be vague to start with and then fill in the backstory details once you've got the character down

NautArch

I'm honestly not even sure backstory is even necessary. You are who you are now. Unless there are roleplay events you and the DM want to bring in from your 'past', it really seems kind of unnecessary.

G. Moylan

hello

NautArch

o/

On another note, Evoker wizards looking to optimize really MUST take Toll the Dead.

Mark Wells

@NautArch I use the tables from Fiasco for that purpose

G. Moylan

A friend of mine brought up a weird D&D class combination of Barb/Rogue the other day and it made me wonder what real benefits that would bring since it's a super MAD build and seems hard to make work. I'm thinking about posting a question but don't want to make a dupe. I didn't see any questions that seemed to be asking the same thing. Was wondering if anyone here knew of such a question off the top of their heads before I posted

Someone_Evil

2:59 PM

Backstory can be useful as an exercise in getting to know your character and having more details,event, stuff to play of of to flesh it out

NautArch

@MarkWells Tell me more! (but about to go into a meeting)

@Someone_Evil I guess I've just found that the backstory i create becomes something I didn't entirely want as I started to play the character. I like having a cleaner slate and then developing their personality as I learn about them.

Medix2

I've learned, over many characters, that you definitely don't need some gargantuan backstory, though it can help. But I often break-in my characters. By that I mean even I don't know exactly how they'll respond to every possible situation until the situations come up (yet I've met people who say that unless you know your character and all their personality and decisions they'd make you aren't roleplaying which... I find to be flat wrong)

NautArch

@Medix2 Yeah, i mean I don't even know how I'd personally react to any given situation in real life ;P

Medix2

Exactly!

Mark Wells

@NautArch First time I ran 5e, I looked at the Bonds/Flaws/Ideals and they were all kind of meh, so I got a fantasy-themed Fiasco playset and used the Relationship and Need tables

Medix2

3:01 PM

@G.Moylan Are you just wondering about what sort of subclass build would work? Is this 5e?

G. Moylan

@Medix2 more or less. I'm curious what the benefits and drawbacks of such a character might be

Medix2

I have pretty much always found the tabled/rollable Ideal/Bond/Flaw rather lacking. Some of pretty cool but a lot are, idk, bland? Not that cliches and unoriginality are bad, just some of them seem like they wouldn't even go anywhere

Someone_Evil

Frenzy attack to always have your sneak attack seems like the biggest one

Medix2

17

Q: Reckless Attack + Sneak Attack synergy?

I'm trying to help out one of my players optimize his character. His desired path is the Unofficial Drizzt Do'Urden build but tweaked it a little according to his taste by going Fighter 1 > Barb 1 > Barb 2 > Fighter 2 >Ranger 1> Ranger 2> Fighter maxed. He is a Human variant Dual-wielder us...

dnd-5e optimization rogue sneak-attack barbarian

Now I'm trying to figure out what a Strength (Hide) check would look like...

14

Q: Do Rage and Uncanny Dodge stack?

Barbarian Rage grants resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. On the other hand, Uncanny Dodge allows you to halve any single attack using your reaction. In the case of a multiclassed character, do they stack?

dnd-5e rogue barbarian

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Lifting a heavy rock ontop of yourself?

Medix2

3:06 PM

@G.Moylan Well that's all I found in the [dnd-5e]+[barbarian]+[rogue] aisle

goodguy5

@Medix2 I assume holding some heavy camoflage

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 The two linked (non dupe) questions are worth looking at too on the topic

Mark Wells

@NautArch I'm considering a house rule that backstory is only real if it's declared in full at session zero. Among other things, this is intended to keep the "established" backstory small, while allowing room for stuff you suspect might be true but aren't committed to yet.

G. Moylan

@Medix2 I've got some reading to do!

Medix2

@Someone_Evil Uh, what two?

kviiri

3:08 PM

@Medix2 Hm, I do recall having a bit of a feeling about some of them that that they don't feel like they actually push towards interesting decisions like I think they're supposed to

Medix2

@MarkWells Just be prepared for somebody to have a very large established, and thus now canonical, backstory

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Does limiting Sneak Attack to the Dexterity choice on Finesse Weapons imbalance anything? and Is there an optimal choice for multiclassing with the aim of optimizing an Arcane Trickster for front-line melee?

Medix2

Oh where'd those come from?

goodguy5

Oh hey! I got a populist badge for that question

Someone_Evil

The sidebar has linked questions (above related), which includes questions that link to this one (such as dupes)

Medix2

3:11 PM

Oh oh! (When you're on mobile and the sidebar is fake [it doesn't exist])

Carcer

backstory can be helpful for providing hooks

it's a convenient way to be able to justify why this adventuring party cares about a particular thing without having to fall back on "you're getting paid to deal with it" or "you're just such good-natured champions of the people"

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 It's at the bottom (below the post an answer box)

kviiri

I agree with what Carcer says although I think time figuring out a collective backstory is better spent than everyone coming up with one of their own

David Coffron

@NautArch Agreed. A guaranteed 0.5d12 and 1d12 on a failed save (when the score is almost never high on monsters or NPCs) is fairly busted

Mark Wells

@Medix2 Another reason for it is to limit the length of it to what other players will tolerate having read to them in full.

Medix2

3:16 PM

@Someone_Evil Welp, at least for me it's not. Though I can just open the question in desktop version

Carcer

@kviiri oh yeah, personally I very much prefer running games where the party is created collaborative under some constraint

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Right, in a mobile browser, not the app

Medix2

Oh, there's an app? I do hope it's better than mobile

Carcer

for instance I ran a game when I was in university with the starting premise that the adventuring party were all from an isolated dwarven civilisation who had been sent back into the world by their clan elders to find the ruins of their old empire

David Coffron

@Medix2 I think it is (but it doesn't have chat functionality and VtC on questions doesn't work well IIRC)

G. Moylan

3:17 PM

@Medix2 it's not great. You have to sign in like 4 times to chat

@DavidCoffron i does have chat but you have to reallly work to get at it

kviiri

@Carcer Yeah, stuff like that is excellent! We had one game where my character was the son-in-law of another, that was also neat

Someone_Evil

It doesn't really have moderation options other than voting and flags. It's mostly useful for reading imo

kviiri

it's like two sentences of backstory and it immediately sparked up more role-play than those three page novellas I used to have back then.

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan I guess it loads the chat via browser, but it's a browser within the app. And for some reason you aren't automatically signed in

Someone_Evil

@G.Moylan I haven't been able to find chat in the (android) app at all

G. Moylan

3:22 PM

@Someone_Evil on the Apple app, you hit the More button on the bottom right and then there's an "open chat" option but it's terrible

JohnP

@G.Moylan On android, it's not horrible if you open it in a browser instead, and then choose "Full site". It's not great, but...

G. Moylan

I honestly don't see how a company as big as SE can have an app as terrible as they do

Medix2

I assume the app provides other benefits over just molbike? (Like it apparently has linked questions listed)

kviiri

@G.Moylan "Eh, it's actually quite easy!" --SE probably

Medix2

@G.Moylan Directs you immediately towards the Nintendo Switch Online Application

G. Moylan

3:25 PM

@kviiri "yOu'Re HoLdInG iT wRoNg!"

JohnP

@G.Moylan What is the $$ benefit? They are targeting companies, and companies will generally be accessing desktop. Mobile is so they can say "Yeah, we have a mobile app too!"

doppelgreener

UX is hard. i think the apps have just had their development retired, in favor of the mobile-friendly sites we have now.

Carcer

wait, the SE app is still actively developed? I thought it was

doppelgreener

don't need an app if your site works fine on a phone

Carcer

yeah, deprecated in favour of responsively designed web ui

doppelgreener

3:29 PM

i help out with another site that has been specifically designed to work amazingly well on a phone. we still get someone asking every week or two "so when are you releasing a phone app?"

G. Moylan

@Carcer now that you mention it, it seems the last update was 2 years ago on Apple

doppelgreener

like, there is a phone app. it's the site. open it in your browser. that's the app.

Carcer

which, btw, is infinitely preferable to having to install an entire app and whatever nonsense permissions it demands just to have a tolerable user experience for a website

doppelgreener

yeah having a responsive website is an amazingly better option than having mobile apps

G. Moylan

most people don't seem to realize you can add a website as a bookmark on their phone screen. so it looks/functions just like an "App" without actually being one

I do that for several websites

vicky_molokh

3:30 PM

@doppelgreener I need the app for the notifications.

doppelgreener

having a site + an android app + an iOS app is far more than triple the workload of having 1 site that works on android and iOS.

Medix2

And yet, here I am, learning that the app has functionality that mobile doesn't

doppelgreener

@vicky_molokh i understand

Medix2

Meanwhile there's now the option of having your phone load the desktop version if website so... Perhaps a moot point

G. Moylan

@vicky_molokh this is a good point, but I think the company would argue that you should just turn on emails and get notified that way

Medix2

3:31 PM

Oh, is the timeline button visible on the app? What about the tools/review button?

G. Moylan

@Medix2 I see none of that but I might just be missing it

Carcer

you can have websites push notifications to the OS, can't you?

doppelgreener

@Carcer yep

i don't know how well that works on stack exchange

Carcer

I'm pretty sure that's a functionality that browsers support now (although I always tell it to sod off when prompted)

Medix2

@G.Moylan Usually, in the top right, there are six symbols for me on desktop. On mobile (browser), there's only two

vicky_molokh

3:33 PM

@Carcer SE's site can push notifications to the Android directly? How do I configure it to do that?

Carcer

@vicky_molokh I dunno if SE does it but I'm sure it's technically possible so long as the browser's running

G. Moylan

@Medix2 yeah I don't have queue options or most tools on the app

vicky_molokh

@Carcer Well it requires a running/awake browser that defeats much of the purpose.

Carcer

@vicky_molokh app notifications require a running app

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: Bards acting as rogues?

In a campaign I recently played, I encountered a NPC that could do everything a lvl 7 Rogue could do, for instance he was able to pick locks but he didn't even roll for it. Later in the storyline, he revealed that he was a bard. My question is: Can a bard pose as a Rogue and have all of the lvl ...

dnd-5e rogue bard

Medix2

3:38 PM

Now I'm wondering how I can even shutdown an app... Is it even an option?

G. Moylan

@Carcer except that the app notification engine can run int he background and work just fine. a Browser would ahve to actually be open on your device

Medix2

I'll admit, I don't know enough about phone and apps to know the difference between what I think is running and what's actually running

JohnP

@Medix2 Apple or android?

And for what's running, there are apps that will tell you that :D :D :D

Medix2

@JohnP I'm on Android

G. Moylan

@JohnP the wheel turns....

JohnP

3:41 PM

@Medix2 Settings->apps->[pick app]->force stop. But, there is no guarantee that the OS won't restart it if it is set to do that. Disabling it from starting, I'd have to google that.

Medix2

Well, that sounds like more effort than is worth it. That or I don't know the harm of apps running in the background

Though... I do now wonder what the whole menu where you can switch apps and swipe them up so they disappear is even for then. Maybe it's just for show...

G. Moylan

@Medix2 it preserves the app state. Apps "running in the background" are different than actually being open

Carcer

reading up about this it appears to be the case that in Android the service for receiving push notifications is baked into it

so, in principle, once you enable push notifications for a particular site, you should get those notifications whether or not your browser is running at all. It's a separate service that's spawned to handle the notifications.

JohnP

@Medix2 Depends. Some apps run in the background and report location, so someone that hacks the repository site can see your movements for X days. Things like that.

Medix2

@G.Moylan I guess most apps I use have their states preserved even when I swipe them away, perhaps I accidentally found some setting

Carcer

3:47 PM

there are greater and lesser degrees of preservation

your browser remembering which tabs you had open is different to your browser keeping all your open tabs in active memory

even if it can rapidly spin them back up again from cache in storage

nitsua60

4:10 PM

@doppelgreener I finally see your new avatar! (It's been a strange day or two--I feel like I was seeing it mainsite-not-chat or mod-message-not-mainsite... there was some strange disconnect in the percolation that I didn't know what to make of.) I did notice (via glorfindel's script) the pronoun change.

Medix2

4:22 PM

@nitsua60 What is this "Glorfindel's Script" of which you speak? (It sounds like it helps avoid misgendering which is great)

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 "Legends tell of an ancient writing..."

28

Q: Pronoun Assistant

Screenshot / Code Snippet About It's hard to miss these days - the Code of Conduct is about to change. It will emphasize the importance of using the correct pronoun when referring to a user in third person. This most often comes up in chat, and some users already have information about w...

script chat

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 : )

i'm happy about both

Carcer

oh I see

your chat profile appears not updated

JohnP

Ok. I'm not used to all of the gender protocols. Is it rude to ask someone what they identify as?

doppelgreener

4:37 PM

it is not

Carcer

@doppelgreener "how should I refer to you?" is probably the more polite way of phrasing it though

doppelgreener

that's also good

JohnP

@doppelgreener Ok, thanks. I was looking at your profile and for some reason (male geek bias I suppose) I had always thought of you as male. :(

Carcer

IMHO "what do you identify as" might come across a bit more confrontational, without context

JohnP

@Carcer "ID and registration please".. :p

doppelgreener

4:39 PM

@Carcer it can, a bit. trans people are used to hostilities.

Someone_Evil

"How should I refer to you?"
"With great reverence, please"

doppelgreener

@Someone_Evil lol perfect

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil not at all, peasant

doppelgreener

last week i decided i want to transition, so big things are happening. last year i would have said i'm nonbinary, but a lot has happened over the xmas break, including realising that most of my reasons for not transitioning are no longer applicable or were never applicable to begin with. it's been a bit of a wild ride since then and i've gotten a lot of support figuring out how the process works here.

s'fun

Carcer

cool. I hope it goes well for you

doppelgreener

4:42 PM

three years ago i did not have any kind of support network to help me understand what i was dealing with and what it meant, and had no capacity to see transitioning as a thing that could be genuinely good and improve my life (as opposed to viewing it just trading one kind of crap for another kind of crap); i have that now.

thank you :)

JohnP

@doppelgreener Well, it's faceless and somewhat anonymous, but you can always find support here. :) I hope it all goes well.

Carcer

my partner would describe himself as nonbinary, but very much on the masculine side of the spectrum still, so has had hormones and surgery

G. Moylan

I apologize if this is potentially rude, ignorant, whatever (I'm no t trying to be, I'm genuinely curious), but when someone mentions transitioning, is it typically moreso a reference to changes in physicality or with presentation? or is it both?

Carcer

going through some transitioning isn't exclusive with being nonbinary still

G. Moylan

or does it just vary from person to person?

doppelgreener

4:45 PM

@JohnP thank you also!

Carcer

IME both or neither. It's a bit nebulous as a term

you'd probably be safe expecting it means a change in presentation, though

doppelgreener

@G.Moylan "transitioning" nowadays as we use the word usually involves HRT to prompt actual physical changes, as well as beginning to present differently along the way

Medix2

Some people take offense to "What so you identify as" because gender isn't their identity. It's what they are

Carcer

@Medix2 what a minefield language is, huh

G. Moylan

and then there's the difference between sex and gender

doppelgreener

4:47 PM

@Medix2 some, some; it's more a matter that the implication can in fact be that the identity is not the truth. it's still common verbiage, though some feel it should be outmoded.

Medix2

Here's an adage "Sex is between the legs, gender between the ears"

G. Moylan

"sex is your chromosomes" is probably better in terms of medical concepts. It's very important still for certain treatments that your "born-as" sex is the one you put

on paperwork. from what i Understand

Medix2

It certainly oversimplified some things, like sex being a lot more than just two options

G. Moylan

true

Carcer

@Medix2 that's also something about which you may find some disagreement. There's not a universal consensus to treat sex as the biological part and gender as the social part

doppelgreener

4:49 PM

when trans people are speaking with other trans people, there's a lot of implicit safety. when we're talking to people who aren't trans, there's like a 50/50 chance the person is going to attack us. twenty years ago, that would have been like a 90% chance.

in environments like this i feel safe the chance is like 1%

y'all are good people, and also i'm carrying a really big hammer which doesn't hurt my confidence in talking about it either

Carcer

also the relationship between sex and chromosomes is waaaaay more complicated that high-school biology might have you believe

Medix2

1% huh? Getting dangerously close to that integer underflow

doppelgreener

@Medix2 with a margin of error of 1%

Medix2

@Carcer That's a really good point too, I'll agree

doppelgreener

in fact in the realm of human biology research the concept of the XY chromosomes being all that important was overturned several decades ago. sex works out the result of chromosomes, chemical expressions at various points in development, environmental factors, etc etc.

G. Moylan

4:52 PM

huh, interesting

one of my D&D players recently concluded they're non-binary, and I sometimes find myself still thinking of them as "she." I'm trying to be diligent about correcting myself until it comes naturally, but it's tough. I've known them for a while now. I worry I might accidentally slip up

Medix2

Personally, I lack any concept of gender outside of gender norms (which caused me a great deal of confusion for a few years, which has now squarely sorted itself out with me identifying as agender)

G. Moylan

@Medix2 agender being "I'm a person. I'm me."?

Carcer

there are a lot of medical circumstances where someone's physical sex characteristics don't match what their chromosomes are "supposed" to be, and you never find out until it comes up because of some other medical issues

doppelgreener

@Carcer right!

G. Moylan

Again, please forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to learn as much as I can: how does being agendered differ from being non-binary?

Medix2

4:54 PM

@G.Moylan They're you're friend. I'm sure they see you're trying (especially every time you use the right pronouns). It's important to get it right (well, probably, guess I haven't asked them), but don't cause yourself any undue stress

doppelgreener

@G.Moylan nb people tend to be understanding of mistakes but hearing our pronouns used makes us very happy inside

Carcer

@G.Moylan you will accidentally slip up. You just correct yourself and move on

doppelgreener

yep. "she said, sorry, I mean they said..."

(hearing the correction makes us happy too. it's nice hearing someone make the effort.)

Medix2

Non-binary means you don't fall on the binary options of "male and female." You are basically anything else, perhaps both (in varying percents), a third gender, or agender (genderless)

G. Moylan

Would it be correct of me to ask whether their character still uses "she" pronouns? we haven't played since their post on Discord

doppelgreener

4:56 PM

@G.Moylan that would probably make them very happy for you to ask

G. Moylan

@Medix2 so they're similar concepts?

doppelgreener

@G.Moylan nonbinary is an umbrella term covering a bunch of things; agender is one of the things in that umbrella.

Carcer

I still sometimes, in my internal monologue, mix-up pronouns for my husband. It's been long enough that my brain is good enough at catching my speech that it never actually comes out of my mouth anymore, but it took me a while to get used to the changes.

Medix2

Agender is a specific subset of non-binary which is where you have no gender. Like how asexual roughly means not having a sex drive (that ones a great bit murkier though...) Asexual is to non-heterosexual as agender is to non-binary, if that makes any sense

doppelgreener

binary: "you are male or female. pick just one."
male: ok [checks one box]
female: ok [checks one box]

nonbinary —
bigender & genderfluid: [checks both boxes]
agender: [writes out "none" and draws a square beside it, checks that]
third gender: [writes out something else and draws a square beside it, checks that]
etc

Medix2

4:59 PM

Gender, as brought to you by your local polling station (meaning, inadequate options)

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