TRPG General Chat

Ben

12:01 AM

Morning all

Medix2

Time zones sure do exist

Ben

It's a figment of your imagination. I am actually using a device to post from the future in your own time.

So I can inform people of imminent apocalyptic events, and give adequate warning to the rest of the world

So far, nothing on the horizon.

trogdor

Lol

Medix2

Yeah that certainly made me laugh, thank you

trogdor

I too am in the future

XD

Hot RPG Questions

12:29 AM

8

Q: Accidentally let party wander into a high level situation, how do I help them get out without cheesing?

TL;DR - due to poor planning on my part in my sandbox-esque game, a party of four Level 5s (fighter, warlock, non-healer bard, wizard) is about to wander into a high level situation and I'd like them to not die while still letting them accomplish something. Here's the situation. The party rece...

Hot RPG Questions

1:31 AM

6

Q: Do you keep Ability Score Increases from Manuals when Shapechanged?

Shapechange is a 9th level spell that lets you assume the form of a different creature, replacing your game statistics, including your Strength, Dexterity and Constitution scores, by that of your new form (but keeping your initial Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores, as well as any benefits ...

dnd-5e spells magic-items ability-scores dnd-adventurers-league

Ben

@trogdor We do have a few in this group, in case some of us are unable to post about future events. Trogdor, BESW, Miniman, linksassin and myself are the main ones, I believe

Himitsu_no_Yami

Is there any purpose for specifying the spellcasting ability of racial spells that don't even have a save or an attack?

MikeQ

@Himitsu_no_Yami I suppose it's in case of any mechanics that involve the spellcasting ability modifier of an existing spell

Himitsu_no_Yami

@MikeQ Can you think of any mechanics that do that?

Ben

@Himitsu_no_Yami I think some of them have an effect that do rely on the modifier. E.g. you might not have to make an attack or force a save, but you still deal damage, or the spell lasts for an amount of time based on the modifier

Rubiksmoose

1:35 AM

@Himitsu_no_Yami I think we may have a question on this....

Ben

Hellish rebuke?

trogdor

@Ben lol XD

Himitsu_no_Yami

What prompted me to ask about it was Water Genasi having Shape Water and Create or Destroy Water and specifying CON as spellcasting ability

Ben

@Himitsu_no_Yami Water djinn/golems?

Normally this spell would not need to have any kind of check or damage, etc... but I don;t see how it couldn't be used on creatures made of water?

Black Spike

@Himitsu_no_Yami There is an Entry in the database! It must not be NULL! Define the Ability! :D

Ben

1:49 AM

Opposed checks too. If two people are using shape water in the same area, you'd have to fight for control

@BlackSpike Error at line 3: value cannot be null

Medix2

@Himitsu_no_Yami One reason is the Arcane Trickster Rogue's Spell Thief feature: "Immediately after a creature casts a spell that targets you or includes you in its area of effect, you can use your reaction to force the creature to make a saving throw with its spellcasting ability modifier. The DC equals your spell save DC."

Himitsu_no_Yami

oh good to know

Black Spike

Can Racial Spell-Like Abilities be counter-spelled? Does that need an Ability?

Ben

@BlackSpike Counterspell can be used on any spell, but only requires an opposed check on 3rd level spells or higher, I believe?

Himitsu_no_Yami

example of spell-like ability that isn't just a spell?

Medix2

1:56 AM

Monk's using ki sometimes IIRC

Also the Stone Golem's Slow feature probably?

Black Spike

@Himitsu_no_Yami tbh, I don't know the Rules, so my words might be inaccurate. Is is a Spell? Just thinking out loud :)

jgn

SLAs don't exist so you probably need to determine if its a spell or not a spell by looking at the "SLA" in question

Ben

Yeah I think there's a definite line between what is and isn't a spell. If it's in the spell list, it's a spell that you can use "Counterspell" on, if it isn't in that list, "Counterspell" has no effect

Himitsu_no_Yami

most of them say "you cast X spell without X component"

Ben

@Himitsu_no_Yami I'd say that's the only difference.

It's a racial trait, so it's a SLA

Medix2

1:58 AM

@Himitsu_no_Yami If something says "you cast X" it's a spell

Himitsu_no_Yami

I know

jgn

@Medix2 Ki is never a spell but you can use ki to cast spells shrug

Medix2

I don't really think "spell-like ability" is used in 5e, maybe somewhere?

Though there are ways to make spell attacks without casting spells, so that's pretty close

jgn

"spell like" is used (eg "a spell like fireball"), but not "spell-like", that isn't something that exist anymore

Rubiksmoose

I don't know if it helps the conversation but there's my answer here:

38

A: What counts as a spell?

A spell is called a spell and listed in a spell list Something that is a spell will be listed in such a way that indicates it is a spell. Or, as Jeremy Crawford says here: Want to know what spells look like? See "Spells" (PH, 211–89). Nothing else is a spell unless it is presented as a spel...

jgn

2:02 AM

google.com/…

Rubiksmoose

But yeah, 5e doesn't have anything that I know of that explicitly is defined as an SLA

Medix2

12

A: Can you Counterspell a spell-like ability?

5e has no concept of "spell-like abilities". If a monster has the ability to cast a spell, it will specify that. Any ability that doesn't specify that it's a spell isn't a spell. Or, to address your specific example: No, you cannot use Counterspell against any of a Beholder's abilities.

Ben

@jgn also did a search in the PHB for "Spell-like; spell like; spellike" and the sentience you had was the only match "For a spell like x"

jgn

5e is a lot easier to understand if you forget previous versions

Ben

My dyslexia is really flaring up today. Lol

Rubiksmoose

2:06 AM

@Himitsu_no_Yami I think this is the question I was thinking of earlier.

jgn

That could probably do with an update.

nitsua60

@BlackSpike I've dropped a note to someone who has experience making armor. In a few days when they've gotten back to me and I stumble in here wondering who was looking for armor tips, remind me it was you? kthx =)

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 We should put safety tape up or something so people stop stumbling around here ;-)

Black Spike

@nitsua60 Thanks! :)

Medix2

@jgn I think it was actually always incorrect. Arcane Trickster is in the PHB

Actually, who knows, maybe it's still correct... Just realized the Trickster one doesn't do anything to misty step

Black Spike

2:12 AM

Sorry if I confused things. 5e has Races that grant Spells? SLA's are not a thing? ok.
So: Does a Race Spell need a Spell Casting Ability? Yes.
1) To fill the database slot.
2) future-proofing

Medix2

And possible for the Arcane Trickster Rogue's Spell Thief ability

"Immediately after a creature casts a spell that targets you or includes you in its area of effect, you can use your reaction to force the creature to make a saving throw with its spellcasting ability modifier. The DC equals your spell save DC."

jgn

@Medix2 True for misty step, but in general something to be aware of.

Black Spike

@Medix2 3) Possible interaction with other effects

Ben

@BlackSpike I think that counts as future-proofing

Black Spike

@Ben Not if it already exists as an effect

Or are you bringing in your "I already went to the future" again?

jgn

2:15 AM

I doubt it's for future proofing. There is a design document saying "all spells need a spell casting ability", which may enable future design to continue under that assertion rather than having a ton of exceptions.

Medix2

Is that not future proofing?

Black Spike

@jgn that's kinda what I meant :)

jgn

@Medix2 I would say it's more for consistency. Not "we should do X because in the future Y", it's "we should do X because all other cases do X"

future proofing is one of the benefits of consistency, but it isn't the only one.

Black Spike

"We should do X this time (and all times) so that later, we can assume X" ?

jgn

Another is that there are less questions on the site in the same vein as "what do I do in Z obscure situation where the rules say X but this spell doesn't conform"

Ben

2:18 AM

The opposite could also be offered. "If we give all spells a casting ability, it covers all bases for any future iterations"

Medix2

I guess we should just be glad they did it at all, even though we can't know why they did it

jgn

@BlackSpike Maybe thats what they are thinking, but "we should do X at all times so that [the system is easier to understand / we can manage player expectations / the rules are easier to write / ... etc]" consistency has a ton of benefits

Black Spike

So:
All Spells (even Race Spells) must have a Spellcastng Ability, even if it seems like they don't need one, just in case.
case 1: Spell Thief
case x: other.

@jgn yup. Sounds like good design :)

jgn

@BlackSpike I'd say just because that's how spells work, it just be that way

Black Spike

@jgn true. A spell is cast 'with an Ability' . That is how spells work. :)

@Himitsu_no_Yami have we helped?

Himitsu_no_Yami

2:24 AM

You have

Black Spike

:)

Chain mail is taking a slight pause:
1) awaiting advice (thanks @nitsua60, will check back!)
2) awaiting delivery of more materiel
3) awaiting Weekend

Ben

Loading weekend... 50%...

Black Spike

@Ben Damn you and your futureness! I've only got ~30%

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: Scrying on a Paladin that has become a Death Knight?

So, the players that I DM for have been amassing allies for a final large battle. One of these allies is an Oath of Conquest Paladin that has transformed into a Death Knight since they last saw him. Upon learning that the Paladin is unavailable to help they might try to scry on him to find out wh...

dnd-5e spells undead

Himitsu_no_Yami

I'm at about 40%

Black Spike

2:34 AM

(well, depending how many jobs I get, I might be at 80% ... #selfEmployed #contractor #freelance )

Ben

@BlackSpike True. I also have that mod

Loading times can shift unexpectedly

Black Spike

So long as I don't get that unexpected "100% on Wednesday afternoon". My bank-manager hates those!

Ben

@BlackSpike I installed a batch file that runs a script when that happens. "Loading has accelerated unexpectedly. Please check progress connectivity then relaunch loading"

Hot RPG Questions

4:39 AM

3

Q: Do hexblade warlocks with pact of the blade ignore the limits on the type of weapons summoned?

So I play hexblades warlocks alot. I of course, usually take pact of the blade to go with it. It says you can only summon melee weapons. Do hexblades ignore this rule? Would I be able to summon a longbow as pact of the blade?

dnd-5e warlock hexblade

nitsua60

5:21 AM

@Rubiksmoose That's how I got the last concussion!

Hot RPG Questions

5:40 AM

5

Q: When substituting one ability for another on a skill check which kind of check does it qualify as?

The Unearthed Arcana Monk tradition Way of the Astral Self has the following ability (page 2 of the PDF): Arms of the Astral Self You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier when making Strength checks and Strength saving throws. Imagine such a monk took 1 leve...

dnd-5e skills monk unearthed-arcana barbarian

V2Blast

9:06 AM

For those using Windows, update it ASAP: pcworld.com/article/3514172/…

8

Pierre Cathé

Damn

Hot RPG Questions

11:27 AM

3

Q: Innate Spellcasting vs Rakshasa

If a creature with Innate Spellcasting tries to use an innate spell against a Rakshasa, how does it interact with their limited magic immunity? Limited Magic Immunity: The Rakshasa can't be affected or detected by Spells of 6th level or lower unless it wishes to be. It has advantage on Saving...

Transcript for