TRPG General Chat

12:49 AM

@BESW It's a little strange seeing (this branch of) the indie scene realize that other people actually enjoy D&D, and try to figure out why that is...

So that they can try to attract those players to games that were designed, basically, as a rejection of D&D.

RedRiderX

"Rejection" may be a little harsh.

Though on some level pretty much every RPG out there is a response to D&D

Black Spike

1:08 AM

@RedRiderX It's difficult not to be influenced by D&D, in some manner

I recall back in the late 80s Fanzine scene, at least one 'zine declaring "Guaranteed! no D&D!" ... but their content didn't fall too far from the tree. Same stuff, slightly different rule-set ...

One of the main draws of D&D is "it's what all my friends play". It's difficult for an Alternative to counter that.

MikeQ

It's what all your friends play... for now. There are other systems to be played.

Black Spike

@MikeQ There are ... but they are all competing for the same space. And Status Quo tends to win against 'some other thing that no-one has heard of, and needs effort to learn'

user15026

I dunno, d&d has a pretty high learning curve

Black Spike

(It's not a situation I'm in. Our wider-group is very experimental, will give anything a try. Our regular table of 5 has quite the opposite - one of our Players will NOT play D&D)

@Ash That can keep people locked-in. They've already put the effort in to learn -this- system. Not going through that again! (Even if an alternative is simpler, the perception is hard to change)

Mark Wells

1:32 AM

@BlackSpike And perhaps one of the things people actually like about D&D is that the system isn't dirt-simple, and trying to sell them tic-tac-toe because "come on, you learned Twilight Imperium, this is much easier" is not a great strategy.

(I firmly believe this is why Pathfinder succeeded.)

Black Spike

@MarkWells I think there is a large split in Types of Players. Some very much enjoy System Mastery, and will gladly jump into more and more complex rule-sets, to show that they can Optimise them. Others are really not interested, and will gladly, after three years of playing the same character, ask "What dice do I roll?".

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast Tired of Aglets?

BESW

@MarkWells Did you read the threads? That's not what's going on at all.

Mark Wells

1:48 AM

@BESW I did.

BESW

DC is specifically talking about why the thing you're talking about doesn't work.

He's saying that successfully recommending non-D&D games needs to include identifying what people like about D&D and suggesting games which don't reject those elements.

And then Jamila picks up one of the things he points out is missing from many indie games that DC likes about D&D, and lists indie games which do have that thing.

Black Spike

Trying to think of some kind of Sports analogy. Football (Soccer) is The Big Thing here in UK. It's got tactical play, skill, long-term strategy, luck ... hmmm ... maybe you'd enjoy Snooker!

nitsua60

@ACuriousMind I've got a physics.se-related moderation question, but you're not TL-pingable. Shall I superping you there, or is there a better place?

Joel Harmon

2:07 AM

@MarkWells Twilight Imperium can actually have its subsystems explained as their own games...

(Also, it's great. Fun fact: I've never managed to play it with only people who have played before. New players are great, but it takes an hour or two just to do setup an explanation.)

Black Spike

(Tangent, and Blatant Plug: I'm thinking of what App to write ... do i write something for D&D, or do I look to some Indie Games and see what might give them a signal-boost, make them more accessible, by virtue of having extra support? ... I have to lok at my download numbers ... )

BESW

I'd love an app for tracking Space Goblins! stats...

Black Spike

@BESW Don't know Space Goblins ... but if it's nt too complex, i could knock somethign together ...

BESW

I wonder if Script Change would lend itself to some kind of app support.

Joel Harmon

@BlackSpike In general, I would be careful about targeting a specific brand, because copyright.

BESW

2:12 AM

@JoelHarmon Maybe an app designed to support different kinds of L&F/Honey Heist style systems?

Black Spike

@JoelHarmon Yes. I do try to be careful of Intellectual Property Rights.

My apps tend to be "loosely inspired by" exisiting works ...

Joel Harmon

@BESW I'm not sure how much there is to keep track of in those kinds of systems. I recall using index cards for character sheets plus notes.

BESW

I know a lot of people have been working on apps for shared tracking of Fate mechanics, but that's rather ambitious.

Joel Harmon

Character is what, your single stat, your name, and maybe some kind of role? I now seem to recall that Honey Heist has a bear type that gives a special ability, but I've never actually played.

L&F does also have a ship, IIRC.

I think it's been more than a year since I've played Lasers and Feelings.

Black Spike

@BESW One of my early ideas was a Fate Point tracker ... but it was too complex, back then, and now we don't play Fate, so it fell by the wayside

nitsua60

2:16 AM

@BESW Ooh, yeah. Like a genericized back-end and GUI for those, that the content of L&F-likes could be laid onto?

BESW

@nitsua60 Exactly.

nitsua60

"Here's my app, here's the structure of the XML file you need to write to populate it...."

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 Is there a name for that category, the way there is Powered by the Apocalypse as a category?

user15026

@BESW that would be helpful. We do okay with spreadsheets, but an app thing would be easier.

nitsua60

Not that I know of. (Not that I'm really the one to ask.) [looks askance at ~~the oracle of many indie games~~ BESW]

Joel Harmon

2:17 AM

@nitsua60 I wouldn't assume folks in general could comfortably write XML. We're biased to be pretty technical on this site. I'd suggest instead a separate app for editing such files.

Maybe a companion website?

Black Spike

@BESW OK, had a (very) quick look at Space Goblins .. .the whole thign is 6 pages, 1/2 of which is Tables? ... Goblins have a couple of Stats and a Trait. Ship shave a couple of Traits. I reckon I could mangle something together

Joel Harmon

I need to head out. Later, all!

Black Spike

@JoelHarmon cya. be good

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon Fair point.

(I'm biased because our old school information software was XML-based and it was super-awesome to be able to dig in there and bang around and make the software purr. Now we're on a locked-down vendor where anything we want requires serious expenditures and a year's go-around... only to see the thing we were screaming about and paying through the nose to develop be announced as the next year's "standard improvement" to the software.)

(We should be taking a cut of all these freaking improvements, not paying for them!)

</rant>

BESW

@JoelHarmon Yeah, I'd definitely need a GUI for modifying the thing.

Xirema

2:26 AM

XML is one of those things where you think you're fully capable of editing it by hand, and then there's a weird structural nitpicky thing the application is expecting from you and you're not sure how to handle it.

Black Spike

@Xirema I'm shuffling my data in JSON and SQL at the moment ... XML is for Android layouts ...

Xirema

> Okay, should I be nesting elements within this higher level element, or just define them as attributes? Is the App smart enough to just treat them both the same? Wait, does it just pick up the free-standing text as the value it needs, or do I need to define a value attribute? Or a sub-element called "value"???

user15026

All of that sounds terrifying.

Black Spike

@Xirema " ... is the app smart enough ..." : assume not.

@Xirema How to build data-structures is my main bugbear at the moment. Keep runnign into stumbling-blocks over how to store information ...

Black Spike

2:47 AM

ok, I've got some Zecharia Sitchin to read. Catch y'all on the flip side

jgn

5:25 AM

Anyone know how many comments a question can get before they all get pushed to chat?

And if there are any rules listed anywhere for comments or well, anything I guess.

BESW

32

Q: Why are site comments being deleted?

Some site users have noticed old comments being deleted. This is correct - site comments are meant to be a mostly temporary means of improving questions and answers. Here's an explanation of the process we use. Argumentative comments or extended discussion comment threads hijacking an entire q...

5

A: How do you choose when to show the "Please avoid extended discussions in comments" notice?

From my own observation, this appears when the system detects a "dialogue" between two users, where each side posts at least four comments, and the other side replies:

jgn

5:46 AM

That's a little difficult to parse. Ultimately it is up the mod to do whatever they want? 4 or 5 comments seem to be the max before deletion, which is a long way short of the hyperbole "covering the entire screen". I guess as usual there are frustratingly few solid rules >w<;

Thanks anyway BESW, you did your BEST ;)

BESW

It's important to be aware that this is a description of hard-coded automatic action chosen by the Stack Exchange company while this is an attempt by non-employee users on RPG.SE to identify principles that meet the needs of RPG.SE while still aligning with company expectations for the whole network.

kviiri

I don't really see how a solid rule would be helpful in the comment thing

BESW

Yeah, principles are a lot more useful than lists of acceptable/unacceptable actions, because the more we try to make comprehensive do/don't lists the less comprehensive the lists become.

And moderators don't go looking for comments to delete, that's just not a good use of their resources. Individuals users flag issues for moderator attention.

jgn

The automatic action is a question not an order. I do not interpret this to mean "you are performing extended dialogue and thus you must move to chat'. If 4 users each post 6 comments collectively, it is unclear to me if the automatic system would even pick it up, let alone a mod would look at it and call it "extended dialogue".

I have read that thread BESW, I report a lot of posts too. But it is up to the mod to decide if they want to act on the report or not, so I don't think that dismissal is valid.

BESW

It's not a dismissal.

It's pointing out that what our elected moderators see gets filtered through the userbase first.

jgn

5:59 AM

I'm not sure how to say this in a way that doesn't sound snarky but I assumed you were making a point and not just offering up trivia. I'm sure from your perspective my response sounded aggressive then, sorry for that. I misunderstood.

BESW

The official Stack Exchange guidance for comment use is here.

Trivia, context, you know.

jgn

Sure, I mean you did already link that thread right? Or did I imagine it haha

Anyway, sorry.

According to that SE page how would you categories pointing out problems in an answer; for example "you say X but on page 1 of the rules it says Y"

Regardless, none of that page seems to indicate that a long string of clarifications or constructive criticism is banned?

BESW

That'd probably fall under constructive criticism, though if I were leaving the comment I'd want to phrase it as "page X seems to contradict Y, can you please [edit] your answer to show how you resolve this?"

Banned? No, of course not. But it'll probably be better off for everybody if it happens in chat where there's not restrictive word limits and there's less of a performative element to the discussion. And the comments will get cleaned up once the post has been modified to reflect whatever usefulness the comments provided.

jgn

Sure, I do the same, I just don't think how polite a comment is determines if it should be deleted or not I guess

I think that removing the discussion from visibility is more of a negative than a plus.

I made a post on that meta anyway, thanks for the link.

BESW

An outright rude comment will get deleted regardless of technical usefulness. A comment that's just brusque isn't gonna get deleted but it will be of less use because it'll be harder to understand and less likely to be responded to.

jgn

6:07 AM

Is that so? I personally wouldn't ignore a comment just because it's a little terse, but I guess it's up to everyone to do what they think is a good idea right?

I always try to be as polite as I can even if it feels over the top some times haha

BESW

Oh I see. You had a very specific situation in mind but you were asking us general questions. That's... frustrating.

jgn

I would hate for someone to dismiss a valid point because they supposed they didnt like my tone.

Huh? Yes? "Anyone know how many comments a question can get before they all get pushed to chat?" ?

BESW

That's asking about a general rule. You've got a specific answer/comment set that you're concerned about.

6

Q: How should we respond to fundamentally incorrect/bad answers?

This question exists because of this answer, and a discussion in chat that followed it. I'll get to that later. This question is about a unique category of answers on Stack Exchange: specious answers. Specious answers are incorrect and bad, yet look legitimate and good. By an incorrect/bad ans...

discussion answers

7

Q: What To Do When There Are No Right Answers, Only Wrong Ones

This question, about the fairness of a 7-sided die, troubles me. It is in my opinion well-thought out and well-formulated. It is asking if a particular die has had any sort of rigorous analysis (physics-based or statistics-based) performed to test its fairness. That is simple, direct, and if s...

discussion

You may also find this old discussion interesting.

25

Q: Can we re-evaluate our comment deletion policy? (or at least have access to the data?)

Over the past several weeks, moderator comment deletion has been regular and heavy handed. I'm generally good with this (I'm on record as saying I'm far more likely to delete an entire comment stream than a few single comments when it's my job). But it would be good to both evaluate this behavior...

discussion comments

jgn

I guess there are no simple answers here huh, that first link doesn't have a conclusion by the way

ACuriousMind

@nitsua60 you can superping me there, I'll answer later today most likely

jgn

6:17 AM

The second one is pretty contradictory to the previous metas too @_@;;;

Oof that third thread, ouch

BESW Oh? How do you know that? I ask because your assumption isn't correct. I have seen gratuitous hiding and deleting of comments and am interested in the specifics because, as the third thread says, this behavior is dangerous.

Is that why you have sent me a half dozen threads to read? Hoping that one will answer some imagined question that you suppose I have?

A simple "there is no number, the mods do what they want and you aren't alone in your concerns" would have sufficed instead of sending me on a wild goose chase for an hour :/

BESW

I don't know what your concerns are. You asked about a policy without any explanation of your concern, and then left a post somewhere else about a specific example of something that seems only tangentially related.

Based on years of working with people who follow this pattern of coming into chat with general policy questions and then posting on meta about somehow-related-but-not-exactly-clear-how specific mainsite actions, I'm going to feel safe in assuming there's something here you aren't saying out loud, maybe because you haven't figured out how to yet or maybe because you're not sure what peoples' reactions will be.

Hot RPG Questions

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In Pathfinder 2e, some classes have access to a focus pool. Each pool has a certain number of focus points, which can be used to cast spells. I'm playing a champion and intending on making extensive use of focus spells. My focus pool has a maximum value of 3. What is the lowest level that I can ...

optimization character-levels spellcasting pathfinder-2e focus-pool

BESW

I've got a lot of practice helping people communicate their concerns, and I'm pretty good at seeing the gaps in a conversation where something's being danced around. eg, quoting things like "covering the entire screen" that aren't in any of the material we're talking about, that was a flag.

And now on meta you've identified the concern that deleting un-acted-on comments can, in some cases, obscure information which their simple existence would provide--namely, that an answer is controversial.

This is an important and valid concern, but not one that asking about how the site's "move this to chat" code works will create a discussion about.

jgn

6:33 AM

@BESW Well that's great that you want to preempt me or whatever, and maybe you are very good at what you do. However in this case you have joined some unrelated dots.

I was asking about how many comments is too many because I often see them getting removed.

You linked a thread about comment removal, and I read it all, as I do with everything people link when trying to help me.

That lead me to make an /unrelated/ comment on that meta because it brought up another question (which interestingly you later linked a thread all about that issue!)

Perhaps this pattern of "people who follow this pattern of coming into chat with general policy questions and then posting on meta about somehow-related-but-not-exactly-clear-how specific mainsite actions" is actually the result of "someone asking a general question in chat and then after linking them a thread they make a semi-related comment on that thread which is only semi-related because the thread linked was semi-related"?

"eg, quoting things like "covering the entire screen"" ? -> "if the comment thread takes up a whole Web browser top to bottom, you're definitely there. "

This is a paraphrasing of "the whole web browser top to bottom" (because who browses the web with their browser at half height, not me!), which is in the link that YOU sent me.

"This is an important and valid concern, but not one that asking about how the site's "move this to chat" code works will create a discussion about." well, I just did.

BESW

@jgn And that'd be why I clarified that the RPG.SE meta is distinct from the "move comments to chat" code, yes.

jgn

I think you have tried to go full on Sherlock Holmes when there is no deeper meaning. I asked about "move to chat" / deletion because I wanted to know about it.
I posted on that other thread because I saw an issue.

BESW

I'm trying to help. I'm sorry I overstepped. I'll go away now and let other people help you instead.

jgn

Your help is appreciated, but I do feel that you did overstep. I feel like you accused me of being insincere or having some shadowy agenda. I can assure you that I am not playing 4d chess, or even 3d or 2d chess. Hopefully that puts you a little more at ease :/

BESW

We clearly have difficulty communicating, because I tried to be very careful not to attribute intent to your vague requests--I said that some people have trouble articulating their core concern, or are concerned about reactions. That's neither insincere nor agenda-laden, nor did I attribute them to you.

jgn

6:50 AM

"You had a very specific situation in mind but you were asking us general questions." ... " I'm going to feel safe in assuming there's something here you aren't saying out loud"... "I'm pretty good at seeing the gaps in a conversation where something's being danced around. eg, quoting things like "covering the entire screen" that aren't in any of the material we're talking about, that was a flag."

I don't think my requests were vague, it was your overthinking that complicated them.

BESW

No, you're right, reading back up I wasn't as careful as I thought I was being.

jgn

BESW, I think I will leave chat now. At the moment I am finding it hard to read your comments as sincere and motivated by good intentions. I appreciate that you tried to help though, your links were valuable information in helping me understand the way that comments are generally handled.

V2Blast

I don't think that I've ever read any of BESW's messages as not sincere or motivated by good intentions. His very first comment is by a former mod explaining how and when the RPG.SE mod team (at least at the time) decided to delete comments. I don't know if the frequency of comment deletion has changed at all, but mxy's reasoning in the post largely holds true.

3

As we've said in the past, such decisions are largely a matter of judgment as to whether the comment retains any value at all (if not, it will just be deleted instead of moved to chat) and whether it contains any suggestion for improvement or request for clarification (in which case it can usually just be deleted once acted upon or rejected).

BESW

@jgn I'm very sorry I gave you that experience, it's not what I wanted at all. I'll leave you to people who are better at this stuff, and I'll try to improve with other people in the future.

V2Blast

You seem to keep looking for hard and fast rules where lots of gray areas exist. Largely speaking, comments are for two things: suggesting improvements to the question or answer you're commenting on, or asking for clarification about something that is unclear in the question/answer you're commenting on. If the comment is not doing one of those two things, it is liable to get deleted.

As BESW said, we don't sift through posts looking for comments to delete, but if we come across them or someone flags them, we may delete them. If there is potentially worthwhile discussion that is nevertheless not doing one of those two things, or if the suggestion/clarification requires a much more substantial conversation, we are more likely to move the comments to chat.

Personally, if there are 12-15 or more comments below a question/answer (and they're not just suggesting an improvement or requesting a clarification which has already been addressed - in which case they'd just be deleted), I will usually move them to chat to retain the conversation without cluttering the thread. But this is not a general mod policy or a hard rule or anything, just my personal assessment.

(There's also an automatic flag raised when 20+ comments are posted beneath a single question/answer within a period of 3 days.)

MikeQ

7:20 AM

Barn owls cannot hoot.

BESW

Yeah, but they don't care either.

MikeQ

Most other owls can hoot, or produce a hoot-approximate noise. But not barn owls. This is something you know now.

V2Blast

Interesting.

MikeQ

Barn owls can only screech. Meanwhile, screech owls can hoot.

Someone_Evil

@MikeQ But can hoot owls barn?

MikeQ

7:28 AM

@Someone_Evil Not yet.

Nyakouai

7:43 AM

Hello all

The Oracle

-1

Q: How can I suggest that a comment may have problems without violating the "no discussion" rule?

I have a second question that has arisen from this meta; how can I suggest that a comment may have problems without violating the "no discussion" rule? Example: Answer: "A, B, therefore C" Comment 1: "Good answer, very good, but I think Y isn't correct, it should be D, therefore E". What I want ...

discussion comments

Pierre Cathé

8:16 AM

Morning folks

V2Blast

Hello hello

Pierre Cathé

Saw a northern white-faced owl this weekend, at a bird show, it was adorable

They're about 20 cm tall when adult

Also I was able to run a session this week, so that was cool :)

It was a really dramatic fight with a huge build-up, huge reversals and a dramatic ending

only downside is that it took most of the session, even though it flowed pretty well

V2Blast

Nice!

Nyakouai

I find big fight session from time to time to be very rewarding

But too much gets mentally exhausting

We had 3 sessions of hard, drawn-out fights in Starfinder, we were crawling on our limbs for a "relaxing session"

BESW

What system?

Ah, Starfinder.

Pierre Cathé

8:28 AM

I'm playing dnd 5e

Nyakouai

Pierre is gming 5e, Curse of Stradh IIRC

Pierre Cathé

And yeah, the 2 previous sessions were fight-light so it felt quite good to just hash it out in the field

Yep, Strahd

Erik

Sounds like you guys have a session every week?

Someone_Evil

Cool, someone needs to think outside the box about boxes

BESW

@Someone_Evil I'm in favour of buckets, myself.

Pierre Cathé

8:30 AM

@Erik Yeah we do, unless someone can't make it, which happens about once every 4 sessions

BESW

Seriously though, in D&D 3.5 there's an excellent if somewhat jankily-implemented set of alternatives in the form of various boons which provide item-like benefits without being items at all.

Erik

Meh, we're 5 ppl incl. GM and we managed 4 sessions (of 8 hours each) during the last year. On the other hand there's fighting each session.

BESW

You can get blessings from beings of power, or benefits from visiting places of power, or bonuses because of affiliations, all kinds of interesting things. 4e did it better, of course.

Pierre Cathé

@Erik We're 5 too. What helped us is that we know that we all go back to our hometown every weekend, so we agreed to set aside our Sunday afternoon for rpg and it's been working well so far

BESW

9:38 AM

MAHARLIKA by Joaquin Saavedra is a Science-Fantasy RPG where you play as the heroic Maharlika, pilots of the wondrous MEKA (Mekanisadong Sandata). You survive and thrive in Arkipelago, the setting of Maharlika, a setting that is steeped in Filipino themes, Myth, Culture and History. As a Maharlika, you will protect cities, charge into battle against the Outsider Beings, and sail through the violent skies of Arkipelago.

English translation is in the works, and Saavedra has an interesting thread about what they're learning through translation here.

BESW

9:55 AM

Oooh it's gonna be a bilingual translation. That makes me happy.

Together // Apart: microgames about being queer and vulnerable by Swords & Flowers, now has community copies that are refilled by full-price purchases.

Carcer

10:22 AM

what qualifies a translation as bilingual?

(googling didn't explain in a way that I can understand what's significant)

is it that it includes both the original and translated text?

oh yes I see it in the thread now

cool

BESW

Yeah, my very first full-sized book layout job was trilingual and one of the languages I didn't know at all and it used a symbol set I was unfamiliar with too.

I also sometimes work on layout for a magazine that can have up to five or six languages per issue, some of them with translations and some of them without.

Carcer

10:44 AM

that sounds like it was a tricky job

BESW

It was lots of hard work but I learned a lot and the board of editors was really great to work with.

Carcer

11:10 AM

well that's good

BESW

Aye, it was an awesome experience to be able to help make space for voices that wouldn't have gotten published anywhere else.

KorvinStarmast

12:31 PM

@BESW 5e has borrowed that idea although it appears to be aimed at higher level play.

@BlackSpike Ah, I found the "use once and link dies" app to send you my gmail address. Next time we are on at the same time, I'll give it to you so I can try your app and do some user interface atempts. I use android smart phone.

nitsua60

12:52 PM

@ACuriousMind thanks.

@jgn Second sentence is correct. We (elected) moderators have a button we can push that is "delete all comments," another that is "move comments to chat," and/or we can individually delete comments. Community moderators can also delete comments without elected mods even knowing it happened via flagging comments. I don't remember the hard-coded rules on how many flags deletes a comment.

From this meta post you can see that a good third of the comment-deletion around RPGSE is done independently by community moderators, rather than by the four of us elected moderators.

Someone_Evil

@nitsua60 Community moderator here means users with 10k and elected mods are indicated by diamonds, yes?

nitsua60

(I'd ballpark that the true fraction of "comments deleted by community moderation" is probably much higher--maybe 3/4 or 9/10--when you consider that almost every comment we elected mods land on and think about deleting, we got there because one of you flagged it.)

@Someone_Evil Elected mods are the diamonds, yes. (Rubiksmoose, V2blast, doppelgreener, and me.) I'm loosely using the term "community mods" to refer to all the actions that regular users can take as rep unlocks those actions.

Someone_Evil

Cool. The term is a bit confusing seeing as (in elections) you (diamonds) are called Elected Community Moderators

nitsua60

Dear Chatizens: I've been neglectful of the room for the last month or so. I apologize. Like Reese Witherspoon in Sweet Home Alabama, I'm learning my lesson about returning home and embracing the stock from which I spring. I'll do better =)

BESW

I don't recommend hugging soup, it'll get away from ya.

nitsua60

1:04 PM

(Also, it doesn't hurt that I hear McConnagghahuey (sp?) hangs around here a lot.)

@Someone_Evil Yeah, there's probably a better term. "High-rep users," "unelected moderators," both seem a little off in different directions. What can I say--Monday morning?

Someone_Evil

For deleted content the term "10k"s is often thrown around

But I guess you only mean users who use their flags? "Flaggers"?

nitsua60

This is a sentiment that you're not alone in holding. There are also many who feel the exact opposite, that moving a conversation to chat allows it to flourish in a way it wouldn't on the mainpage. I naively assume that some comment-versations would be best served by staying put, that some would be best served by moving to chat, that there's almost no way to know ahead of time which is which, and that we (moderators and users alike) suffer from confirmation bias when evaluating which we've witnessed.

Rubiksmoose

@BESW Soup is probably one of the less-huggable food stuffs :)

nitsua60

@Someone_Evil Part of my problem is probably that I don't have the privilege levels memorized well enough. I know 10K for seeing deleted content, 20K for analytics, I think? 50 to comment everywhere? But there's a lot of moderation--editing, visible downvotes, reviews, flagging--that comes on line in between those extremes, too.

@Rubiksmoose I'm sure some molecular gastronomists think that solid soup is a good idea. They might even be right--I'm just not going to try it until they send me to space and I have to.

Someone_Evil

@Rubiksmoose Pineapples, durian fruits, sea urchins, fugu fish. People use cacti for food/drink

Rubiksmoose

1:17 PM

@nitsua60 Solid soup = stew-pid idea?

nitsua60

If you've seen what you believe to be "gratuitous hiding and deleting of comments" I encourage you to speak up, please. (Preferably via flags or meta; chat's not really great for serious moderation issues. It doesn't leave an easily-accessed trail to go follow back, it only has such eyes on it as care to drop in to the room, among other reasons.)
Either your threshold for gratuitous is not consonant with the wider community's or there's gratuitous deletion going on that we should know about and fix. Either way, someone's got something to learn.

Someone_Evil

@nitsua60 Community members? active users?

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Admission: I can never remember them either :(

Carcer

@Someone_Evil if it's just rep-unlock ability I would avoid using the term moderator, yeah, that just confuses with the elected moderators

NautArch

howdy howdy!

@nitsua60 For shame! But I'd also like to state a mea culpa. I feel like for whatever reason I've been drawing harder lines than I need to and am also learning from my recent actions to be better.

nitsua60

1:28 PM

@Carcer I'm on the other side of that: I intentionally use the term "moderator" to try and remind people that they're moderators, too =)

@NautArch Alright, alright, alright.

goodguy5

1. no problem.
2. I reference that movie a surprising amount
3. THAT PLOT IS AWFUL. She leaves her deadbeat husband and gets a successful life in the city and then all of a sudden decides to throw it all away for someone who is essentially Matthew McCaughnihay (sp)

Someone_Evil

On the topic of priveliges: I've had the 10k privelige for over a month now and have yet to (have the chance to) vote to delete anything.

NautArch

Has anyone tried the Star Wars 5e?

goodguy5

@NautArch yea, it's fine.

nitsua60

@Someone_Evil Want me to post something about Sweet Home Alabama so you can vote to delete it?

NautArch

1:31 PM

@goodguy5 I've come to realize my lore knowledge of D&D isn't great and I'm not super inclined to get that deep into it. But I do have a LOT of lore knowledge about SW and think that trying that may generate some more fun.

nitsua60

3. Yes, like almost all love triangles. "We want there to be dramatic tension." "Let's give her two people to 'be in love with'." "But she'll have to leave one of them." "Okay, make that one a jerk, as it turns out." "Problem solved!"
<headscratch>

NautArch

And my son is more interested in SW than swords and sorcery.

So I think i'll have better path with that to get him into RPGs.

goodguy5

very broadly speaking, I don't like tech-fantasy/sci fi role playing games. So, SW, while mechanically solid, doesn't do it for me

Someone_Evil

@nitsua60 I know stuff get deleted, but way before its 2 days old with a -3 score. Our diamonds and 20k's are too efficient

Nyakouai

@NautArch I've a deeper knowledge of Golarion's lore than most of my group. Ended up accidentally spoiling some (a lot of) things. Use your knowledge wisely

goodguy5

1:32 PM

@NautArch oh then yea There's a starter box and everything

nitsua60

SW5e might have lost me at Engineer is based off Artificer, but extrapolated to be a full caster.

goodguy5

@nitsua60 I'd have to watch it again, but iirc the rich guys WASN'T a jerk, though.

nitsua60

@goodguy5 They may have offloaded most of that onto Candace Bergen, true. But if he wasn't a jerk, why'd he end up at Seattle Grace?

goodguy5

@goodguy5 That said, I LOVE deathwatch. all the 40k games are pretty good.

NautArch

@nitsua60 I'm starting through the handbook. If things don't seem 'right', i'll either adjust or say that's not an available optino.

goodguy5

1:35 PM

@nitsua60 I don't get the... joke?

NautArch

@goodguy5 I've never actually run/played a more tech or scifi RPG, so it'll be interesting. I just understand the universe better :)

But I figure i'll do a one-off and see how we like it.

My first step is reading the PHB and trying to build a character in each class.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 The current SW RPG, IIRC is built off of the Genesis system which I have never played with in person but I love all the actual-plays that use it and the concept of it.

Specifically the rolling mechanism is very very clever.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Is that a different SW RPG then the one I linked? Assuming it must be since my link is based off of 5e.

goodguy5

oh wait, then nevermind.

I'm pretty sure that the newest star wars (genesis) is the 5th edition, as well.....

I'll have to check my box set!

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Ah yeah oops. Not the D&D 5e version at least.

This one

goodguy5

1:47 PM

thanks, moose. that is certainly what I have

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 I'm very curious to hear how it goes for you!

And if you're a podcast person I have a very entertaining one where they use the system if you are interested. Just note that they are much more RP rather than rules-based so not the best to learn the system. But very fun. And the DM is one of my favorites.

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose I've played it once or twice, but as I mentioned, it doesn't super do it for me.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Dang. I need to actually read what I'm responding to a bit closer apparently XD

This is what I get for bouncing between 4 chats at the same time I guess. Apologies.

goodguy5

XD

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose ah...have you tried the 5e one?

Rubiksmoose

2:03 PM

@NautArch I have not.

So I'm of no help there unfortunately.

KorvinStarmast

2:23 PM

@nitsua60 I have solid soup in my pantry. Bullion cubes. :) Just add water and it's better soup than chewing a cube. (Yes, of course I have done that!)

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast chewing up a bullion cube is basically the same as eating a ramen packet.

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 Without the noodles

Delioth

Even better than the cubes, some places make bullion paste stuff

KorvinStarmast

@Delioth spread it on a cracker

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast I meant like... the flavor packet

Delioth

2:27 PM

That sounds terrifying

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 OK, same same

Delioth

It's like one spoonful per pint or quart or something

Erik

It sounds quite disgusting and delicious at the same time.

Delioth

The paste bullion is delicious and notably better than the cubes, but it's powerful and really easy to overdo

Luckily, making a soup taste less is pretty easy

goodguy5

@Delioth yes, but does it last for decades?

Rubiksmoose

2:29 PM

In the US the common brand is Better than Bouillon

@goodguy5 it certainly doesn't in my house ;)

goodguy5

ha!

Rubiksmoose

(but no I don't think it does)

Carcer

I can't remember when the last time I actually bought stock cubes was

but I still have at least one box of them in cupboards

apparently I get through them very slowly

goodguy5

^

NautArch

@Carcer They're good in making chili, too. Or at least, in my chili.

goodguy5

2:32 PM

I don't think I've ever added stock to chili, but now that you say it...

Delioth

@goodguy5 Why on earth would it need to last decades? Gotta go through a gallon of soup every week in winter

I just have two lunches for the year - Chicken Noodle Soup in winter (November-April or so), sandwiches the rest of the year. Makes it easy

goodguy5

dip the sandwich in the soup!

Delioth

Then I'd have to both prep on Sunday and make a sandwich every day, and that's more effort than I'm willing to put in

And pre-making sandwiches is how you get soggy bread

Erik

tbh if a dish doesn't taste as "it should" I first add some stock ^^

Delioth

... You could probably get away with just adding salt alone in a lot of those cases

That could very easily be the component the stock is giving you that's actually helping

Yuuki

2:47 PM

Every now and then when I get rotisserie chicken, I throw the remaining carcass in a pressure cooker for half an hour and get some stock.

Erik

@Delioth I'd go with 50:50, since I usually add enough salt (or too much, if you ask doctors).

nitsua60

@goodguy5 (The jilted fiancee in Sweet Home is played by Patrick Dempsey, a.k.a. "McDreamy" from Grey's Anatomy. And he's a jerk there.)

goodguy5

ah, I see.

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose I've played it and I agree it's very elegant. I've tried incorporating bits of the Genesys mindset into other games and have enjoyed it. (Works well if you're already the sort of person who likes not only to use the information in the number a die lands on, but also the location of the die as it lands, its orientation, its value relative to other dice....)

goodguy5

@Yuuki yea, homemade stock is pretty easy and a great payoff

nitsua60

2:56 PM

@KorvinStarmast True. And more huggable than liquid soup, to be sure =)

@Carcer Buy them? I thought they were like baking soda in freezers: they just come with the pantry?

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 I love the fact that the success/failure track has multiple axes. (at least in the SW implementation).

Carcer

@nitsua60 step 1: set up a collection of "dice constellations" on the playing surface. These will be important later.

Rubiksmoose

@Carcer 200 word RPG idea^

Carcer

step 2: don't own a cat, small child, or other animal that might disturb the table

Yuuki

> Step 1: Roll any number of d6s
> Step 2: 1-6 determines the intensity and color of the star
> Step 3: Make up a constellation?

Carcer

2:59 PM

my brain just went that way too!

seems like a fun way to generate a star map at the very least.

you could take the same approach to lay out world maps and stuff (dice are population centres, make a topography to fit)

I'm sure someone's already done that though.

Yuuki

@Carcer Or the result of the dice determines different topological features like lakes, mountains, etc.

I definitely remember seeing something like that posted here some time ago.

Carcer

I'm sure BESW would be quoting himself linking it in 2014 or something if he was awake right now

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, not just the linearity of "yes, and"/"yes, but"/"no, but"/"no, and".

Carcer

colour of dice works as well, and even type of die - like, d6s are pop centres, others are geographical features

Erik

@Yuuki That way round would be more "correct", since settlements follow rivers & stuff, not the other way round.

Then you add the cities manually in the last step.

Carcer

3:04 PM

@Erik you can work backwards from where you want your cities to be and make a geography in which that makes sense.

I won't tell anyone if you won't.

JohnP

@Yuuki Well, for 2e there were a couple of worldbuilder guidebooks that laid out how to create a world, from the macro size/shape, down to # of tectonic plates, type of world (desert, volcanic, etc), all the way on down to towns/cities.

And they had tables galore to do it with random dice rolls.

Yuuki

@Erik Nah, the people in this setting have a sort of gestalt hivemind terraforming ability (like Orks) and whenever enough of them gather in one place, they literally carve out riverbeds and mountains through their presence.

Erik

@Carcer Yeah, you can, but as a geographer I really resent that approach ;-) also, in my opinion designing the geography to suit the cities is more of a hassle than the other way round.

nitsua60

Kingdoms & Warfare, a Kickstarter by Matt Colville, is up now.

4

goodguy5

that dollar ticker is going up so fast...

nitsua60

3:06 PM

I (and others in the room, IIRC) have enjoyed using his Strongholds & Followers to augment our D&D5e games.

@goodguy5 I just bumped it up a bit =)

goodguy5

I want to support Matt, but I also don't care about these kingdom products....

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Yessss. It's very cool

nitsua60

@goodguy5 It's not on kicktraq.com yet... =(

Carcer

@nitsua60 well, it's only just opened. Give them a few minutes to index it

nitsua60

I'll bet when it hits there he's projected to take in 10M. (Not that he will, just that the prediction algorithm is so naive.)

He's curently making about a hundred dollars a second, eyeballing it.

Carcer

3:09 PM

the "trend" is always unreliable because that just projects the average into the future but the projection it'll come up with later has gotten pretty good these days

nitsua60

(Probably doesn't hurt that he just blasted his discord with the KS link. That's a pretty reliable buyer-base, I'd assume.)

JohnP

@Yuuki IIRC, it also had systems to generate governments, ruling systems, etc.

It was pretty complete.

Carcer

and they're spending seventy quid on average so far

JohnP

Dang. And I couldn't raise 2k on my kickstarter. That's...impressive.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP That was a world building guide, wasn't it? I th ink I have that somewhere, and it was the book that got me interested in reading Robert Jordan's books ... since they thought his first few were good world building.

JohnP

3:29 PM

@KorvinStarmast Yes, it was. I have two copies of that and one of the dungeon builders guide as well.

I have a bunch of 2e stuff I'm going to be selling soon, actually. Lot of the Guide books, dragonlance adventures, sourcebooks. Hate to do it, but times dictate practicality.

Carcer

ah, it's been up long enough for kicktraq to index it now

nitsua60

@JohnP Hmm... I might be convinced to get ~~myself~~ my son, yeah, my son, some Christmas presents off that list. I wouldn't mind a ping if/when you get things sorted out.

JohnP

3:45 PM

@nitsua60 Drop me an email when you get a chance. I'll be taking inventory of the salable stuff over the next few days.

Yuuki

3:55 PM

yer a wizard, gary

Delioth

I could see all of them being different dedications in Pathfinder 2e though, and that could get interesting

MikeQ

@Yuuki There are always four subclasses of wizard: good, evil, smart, and miscellaneous

Yuuki

@MikeQ Ah, the two axes of wizard: Good and Evil, Smart and Sorcerer.

Delioth

Party of 4 wizards: the Gryffindor who took a Fighter Dedication to better fight his enemies, the Hufflepuff who took a Cleric Dedication to better help his friends, the Ravenclaw who took a Rogue dedication to learn tons of skills and tools, and the Slytherin who took a Sorcerer Dedication for ultimate magical powah

Feel free to switch Ravenclaw/Slytherin if you want the sneks to be backstabbers and the smarties to have more spells

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