TRPG General Chat

Rubiksmoose

3:03 PM

On another note:

According to my brain every time I read it, it is pronounced "salad". — Rubiksmoose ♦ 46 mins ago

I can't be the only one right?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose There can be only one.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch It certainly would make math very different.

GcL

I always said it similar to "slah add" imagining adding cole slaw to an order of fish and chips in Boston.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL That sounds fantastic!

STT LCU

Hi all, I wanted to ask a question about how to properly roleplay a D&D5 LG or LN Oath of Conquest Paladin, but I'm not sure if it's an appropriate question for RPGse. Should I go ahead and ask, or what should I do?

GcL

3:11 PM

@STTLCU Sounds like a tough question to get an answer for there. I wouldn't frame it as "properly"

Try defining the outcome you want to elicit and the constraints or challenges you're facing.

@STTLCU I had a short adventure involving two LG Oath of Conquest Paladins that were LE as viewed by the other side.

Rubiksmoose

@STTLCU Well there are a couple of concerns there, how to roleplay something can be highly subjective, and the entire concept of alignments is also very subjective and ambiguous and contentious.

GcL

Border conflict. I'm very entertained when two "good" sides have conflict where the "other side" is "evil"

Xirema

@STTLCU I think that kind of question would probably be inappropriate for the stack itself (because it would be more broad/opinion-based than our standards on Subjective questions can tolerate) but we're happy to discuss it here, in this room!

Rubiksmoose

@STTLCU Which is not to say that I'm sure it won't work as a question, but I think you'll probably get better guidance for less work here. :) Can you give us more details about what you want?

NautArch

@STTLCU Yeah, definitely not a good question for the stack, but a great question for here. Can you tell us more about your character and how you see him acting?

KorvinStarmast

3:15 PM

@Rubiksmoose The word "policy" is what raises the red flag for me. Guidelines is what I feel fits this site better. We aren't writing code. And voting is supposed to sort wheat from chaffe.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast One of the reasons I did put that disclaimer in there is that different labels mean different things to people.

STT LCU

yes, I agree with all of you. My party (and myself, slightly) is worried that I might end up being Evil, and derailing the campaign. I don't want that; but it's quite hard to find examples of "Good" Conquest paladins on the internet (while on the other hand, even on this stack, there's plenty of evil examples). Having such examples would help me craft a plausible character. Personally, I want to roleplay to "resist" the common pitfall for this subclass to fal to evil.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast But yeah, I completely understand your point (definitely not dismissing it).

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Yeah; I have written policy. And I get where you are coming from.

NautArch

@STTLCU This is not a hard guideline, but I often look at this site to start me on the road of developing personality looking at alignment. But I also generally just don't really think about alignment and think more about who my character is and how they'd respond to something.

Being Lawful Neutral definitely opens the door for not perceived to be good actions.

MikeQ

3:17 PM

@STTLCU You're the one making decisions for your character, right? So whether they're evil is up to you.

NautArch

IN ways that lawful Good does not.

YOu can be the character you want, but also understand that your character's actions will impact the other characters (and possibly players.)

KorvinStarmast

@STTLCU El Cid. Good conquest paladin. Just no magic.

Xirema

@STTLCU So what might be good is to try to identify who you see the character as being. I know the alignment system tends to provoke a lot of discussions, but the reality is that each alignment has a lot of plasticity to it and in 5e especially are meant to be more descriptive than prescriptive.

STT LCU

@NautArch Indeed, and I would like to avoid that

NautArch

@STTLCU Some of this means 'playing to the audience.' You can make a decision and if it isn't received well, you can always adjust. THe key is doing something that's fun for you and fun for the group.

Can you give us a specific example where they feel you've gone evil?

KorvinStarmast

3:19 PM

@STTLCU Treat alignment as descriptive, not prescriptive. That's step 0.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast For example, some people might see GSBS as a policy that imposes a guideline on sites which some sites may/can take and codify into a rule. Or some might say that GSBS is a guideline for the same reasons. Or maybe guidance? It's more important to talk about things in terms of what the labels mean to us than the wording of the label IMO. If...any of that makes actual sense.

STT LCU

@KorvinStarmast Thanks!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Functionally, there is a big difference between a policy and a guideline. Words do matter and I think we need to define it.

Because if we all have our own definitions, then there is no definition other than whatever we want it to be.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose My objection to trying to define this down to atomic particle sized granularity is that the effort appears to me to try and "pre approve" answers rather than letting the voters stack them like the Stack is supposed to. The votes create a stacked/sorted list of answers. The guidelines are for the voters.

STT LCU

@NautArch Not really, we still have to start playing and for now we're all basing our feelings on XGTE's flavor text

@KorvinStarmast Indeed. I'm just at a loss describing a persona that might fit under "conquest" while not being immediately recognizable as "evil" such as Vader

NautArch

3:21 PM

@KorvinStarmast The risk here is that voting becomes a popularity contest if you remove the need to support (in my mind.)

KorvinStarmast

@STTLCU Conquest Paladin to be LG probably needs to be serving a good kind or a good queen ... I think.

NautArch

@STTLCU Okay, that's fair! Can you tell us more about how you see the character?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch That beats the alternative that GcL has been pointing out; the case of thatgirlDM's answer is a great example of what is wrong with it.

MikeQ

@STTLCU First of all, most of D&D is about conquest narratives anyway, with the pretext that it counts as "heroic". So conquest doesn't imply evil.

GcL

@STTLCU Maybe write down the guiding principals of the character? Like a four line manifesto or something. Then when you make decisions, because you're the player choosing what to do, play those decisions through the lens of the chararacter's manifesto.

Rubiksmoose

3:22 PM

@NautArch My point more is that we do need to be clear about what we mean by something when we apply a label. A rule can insist that something follows a certain guideline for example. And to be honest, I'm not sure myself where I'd put it right now. I'm trying to keep my mind open and listen to what people are saying. I need to take some time and read through everything again and lay my thoughts down in words somewhere.

GcL

The only pitfall is thinking the character makes decisions. The player makes all the decisions.

MikeQ

Second, the particular subclass flavor reminds me of a soldier, or officer, or teacher, or babysitter, or some other authority figure. Doesn't have to be evil. They're still a paladin, still a support class with healing magic and such.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Unfortunately, I think the discussion is at a point where the Mods need to make some statements.

Carcer

if my recollection serves the conquest paladin really doesn't lend itself to not-evil

Xirema

@STTLCU Speaking as someone who tends to play a lot of LN characters, one thing I tend to emphasize is that my characters have a lot of personally-oriented principles they uphold. Especially things like Codes of Honor. Stuff like that can be really important to keep a character from sliding into LE territory, because when potentially Evil decisions pop up, their code will usually reject those actions.

KorvinStarmast

3:23 PM

@Xirema This too. :)

STT LCU

@NautArch I see him as this person that is set on creating a world where people can live in peace. Not necessarily "free" in the common sense of the world, but where they don't have to fear for their life behind any corner and that they're reasonably content of their life. He's sworn enemy of corrupt officers, weak and indecisive leaders, and criminals

GcL

I've found it entertaining when a "lawful evil" character is doing all "good" acts, but the player was doing it through a very self serving and manipulative motivation.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Mhm. And I apologize for not being able to do that yet. I had hoped to. But (and not to make excuses) the recent drama has been taking a pretty hard toll on me and at least some of the other mods both in terms of time, energy and emotional bandwidth.

GcL

@Carcer To be fair, there aren't a lot of adventure classes that aren't going to be seen as "evil" by some bystander or opponent.

NautArch

@STTLCU Okay, that can definitely go evil, but it's up to your decisions to do so. You've got a good start, and maybe there's some push-pull towards Evil that you end up having to figure out.

STT LCU

3:25 PM

@Carcer That's indeed part of the problem I'd like to tackle if possible :)

NautArch

I'd talk with your DM about it and talk to the group about your character concept.

Rubiksmoose

@Rubiksmoose I'm actively working to shift that energy back here where it is needed.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose More than fair!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Your heart's in the right place, but I think KRyan has a point.

MikeQ

Also, with an aura of menacing (ゴゴゴゴ) the conquest pal may just be an intimidating JJBA character

NautArch

3:28 PM

@KorvinStarmast If his point is "there is none, we know it when we see it", then I don't agree.

STT LCU

Going off @KorvinStarmast 's suggestion of El Cid, would other wartime/rebel/freedom-fighter leader figures work, such as Garibaldi for Italy, partisan leaders in WW2 France, etc?

NautArch

That is the epitomy of opinion-based.

@STTLCU I think any war time leader who believes their actions are for the greater good works.

But the greater good desire can lead you down dark paths.

STT LCU

Ok, that's definitely something I can work with. Thank you all for your help, I'll try to jot down something more concrete in the upcoming days and get back to you fine folks

Gwideon

so i'm working on the audio for my little animatic

STT LCU

see you later

Xirema

3:30 PM

@STTLCU Alright, good luck!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch But I still luv ya! :)

@STTLCU Garibaldi is a great one. Not so much the resistance, more rogue/ranger sorts there.

@STTLCU Go forth and do great things! :)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I'm just asking that something be discussed as to how to determine support. Opting for "none of the above and I'm not going to provide anything" isn't helpful. Unless our move is to longer require support.

But at this point, I don't think i'm going to leave comments. I'm just going to flag and let the Mods deal with it. I've been attacked enough.

And I'll thank users in comments when they do provide support.

Delioth

So, since the last time I had time to spend in chat was immediately after Pathfinder 2e's release - has anyone actually tried out the full version system yet (my group'll be trying it in the next couple weeks)

Gotta say though, building characters feels satisfying

KorvinStarmast

3:58 PM

@NautArch Encouraging desired good behavior seems to be one of many good ideas.

@Delioth You starting from 1 and going up, or beginning at a later level?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Please do. No reason you have to get burned out. Feel free to flag and let us deal with it. It's what we signed up for after all!

KorvinStarmast

*Unless our move is to longer require support* I think the "require" is being
leaned on a bit too hard, hence my answer about 1. encourage and 2. let the votes do the rest of the work. I still agree with the encouragement to offer more/better support.

Delioth

@KorvinStarmast Starting at level 1; admittedly not playing them yet, but 2e on the surface at least looks like it tries to avoid the instant-death that level 1 has traditionally been

What with starting HP coming from both your race and your class, plus AC being a closer-to-standard thing

KorvinStarmast

@Delioth That's a matter of taste, I suppose. There is a certain enjoyment in adventures where death lurks around every corner .... but I do like what I see on that feature that you mentioned. The "one hit and you are dead" thing can really harsh one's groove ...

Delioth

Oh yeah - death can still lurk around the corner if you choose to make your campaign difficult, but the extra bit of buffer can help with the completely accidental "the bandit just hit and happened to roll an 8 on his damage, guess the wizard's unconscious"

KorvinStarmast

4:03 PM

@Delioth If unconscious it can be remedied, that's better than "OK, you are dead on one hit, roll up a new one"

Gwideon

hey um would you guys like to um hear my line recordings for this

KorvinStarmast

@Gwideon Sure, is this music or voice?

Delioth

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, unconscious is definitely better than instant death; but it's still not a good shape for the wizard to just do nothing in a combat because he got hit (at all), and not even because he was worn down over a couple hits

[not even a weird case, one of my PF1e campaigns literally started with the druid dropping unconscious in the first round of the campaign]

Gwideon

voice

KorvinStarmast

@Delioth As long as it doesn't happen during every combat, now and again being near death isn't a bad thing.

Delioth

4:07 PM

@KorvinStarmast Agreed - the issue with a lot of versions is that it's super-easy for it to be every combat at level 1

Carcer

@KorvinStarmast you're near death every combat if you have less than ten hit points

Gwideon

give me one second

Delioth

A d6 class without either 18 Con or HP-boosting features blows over in a stiff breeze (hell, a lot of level 1 cantrips or one-handed weapons wielded by a +0 Strength dude are enough to K.O. in one hit)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Requiring support is how I've differentiated the stack from a forum. But maybe that's not right.

Gwideon

had to put it into my drive

drive.google.com/file/d/145Xzfs1akfdBXK6CFV3mE-0yLwU76xvr/…

Delioth

4:10 PM

2e helps with this by saying you get X hp from being [race], and Y(+Con) hp from being [class] (and then you gain Y(+Con) hp every level thereafter); so an Elf Wizard still starts with 6+6+Con health, while a Dwarf Barbarian starts with 12+12+Con health

Xirema

@KorvinStarmast I very consciously controlled the behavior of the Goblins during our first LMoP encounter with my group, because at level 1, I didn't want any players dropping unconscious, even if only briefly with two characters that can heal, until we were a few sessions in.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch We still delete answers that are "like my opinion, man" in the review queues.

At least I still do.

Gwideon

so um what does everyone think

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema Having a good feel for your players will inform that judgment call.

Xirema

I'm okay with players getting knocked out if they make bad choices or get especially bad rolls, but 5e doesn't quite protect low level characters, and LMoP honestly overstacks its early encounters, IMO.

KorvinStarmast

4:13 PM

@NautArch Flagging bad answers to be put into the "maybe we delete this" review queue is a tool we have.

Delioth

And an extra buffer of a handful of hp makes it much easier on the GM side

Xirema

@Gwideon I'll give it a listen when I'm on a network that will let me access Google Drive (which my current network does not...)

Gwideon

okay

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema LMoP IMO needs a five PC party. Not 3, not 4. For the first encounter or two And it is not set up for 5 raw beginners unless you don't mind teaching the players "adventuring can get you killed" as a lesson during play.

Xirema

@KorvinStarmast Yeah. My whole party has really high CON scores, so they can take a lot of punishment, but having a party with more typical CON scores would turn a lot of those fights into meat grinders.

My group got swarmed by Stirges inside Wave Echo Cave last night, and the paladin dropped from 40hp to like 15hp before the end of the fight. And that was a single encounter, with quite a few unlucky rolls from those bat-things.

And that was after the Artificer's Homunculus got a really good roll on their Resilience check to give the Paladin some extra TempHP.

KorvinStarmast

4:20 PM

@Xirema For stirges I use sleep. But if one is not an experienced player, how would one know that?

Xirema

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, and my group lacks a full-caster, so none of my players get that spell.

KorvinStarmast

We had a first / second level game where the evoker wizard used burning hands when the stirges descended upon us. Sculpt spell kept my ranger from dying. He cooked the stirges but did not cook me.

@Xirema Ouch!

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast It is, but those or for bad ideas unsupported. Well liked unsupported get the pass.

Rubiksmoose

@Gwideon Same.

Gwideon

4:36 PM

alright. can't wait to here what you have to say

NautArch

@Gwideon I'm a little confused. Is this to match up with animation? Overall, it's not bad, though! The participant in the war could use a bit more...emotion.

Gwideon

it's supposed to match up with an animatic that isn't finished yet

NautArch

@Gwideon ah, gotcha.

Gwideon

also yeah i'm using myself and another amateur to do the voices so yeah it may not be the best

NautArch

@Gwideon It's not bad! I would encourage the the war survivor to try a few more takes, though :) (not sure which is you)

Gwideon

4:46 PM

alright

NautArch

the lines are good, just that side could use some more practice. It felt like it was more of a first read-through.

Helwar

@Xirema When I ran that encounter they quickly obliterated the stirges, I don't think i got to damage anyone T_T Made them waste spells though :)

NautArch

@Helwar We just finished a dungeon that had a lot of Stirges. Those guys are tough.

in 5e.

Our 3 INT half-orc was not amused by them.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I suspect that this may be a case of counting the hits and ignoring the misses. They don't happen often enough to be a problem - that is the point that KRyan is making. They are an exception. Mods are exception handlers. We have the tools to deal with those rare occurrences.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Yes, but my point is that we shouldn't decide if something is a good subjective answer because I like the idea. That's seems inherently opinion-based.

Xirema

4:52 PM

@Helwar They're trivial if the party has a proper AOE dealer.

But we don't. =P

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch At this point, are we trying to tell others how to vote? A heck of a lot of votes likely come from 'I agree' over "this is the best answr" and we can't stop that. Each voter is sovereign.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Nope, definitely not trying to do that. But am trying to understand if there is a standard for supported answers and not just well-received answers.

KorvinStarmast

We run into the same problem with "problem GM and Problem Player" Q&A

@NautArch false dichotomy.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast How?

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema Head on down to your local AOE dealer and they'll give you one heck of a bargain. In fact, there's a fire sale goin' on right this very day!

Yuuki

4:54 PM

shuffles over while wearing a trenchcoat "psst... hey kid, you wanna buy some aoe?"

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Let's say we have two answers generating an idea without support. One idea is well received, but the other is downvoted and with the downvotes voted to deletion. The only difference between the two was in whether or not someone liked the idea.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch We have guidelines, and how you are discussing a Standard. That is where I think we'll need to agree to disagree.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Ah, but do we? Some folks are saying they are guidelines. Others are saying it's policy. SOme are saying somewhere in between. Until we understand what it is, i'm not sure we can figure out what to do with it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch we can still flag that other one. We have tools. We don't need to try to pre emptively fix this with the perfect rule. That's where we seem to part company, philosophically.

NautArch

Wanting it to be one thing or the other isn't the same as it being one thing or the other.

KorvinStarmast

4:56 PM

@NautArch heh, Rubik and I just had an exchange on this a few hours back. I am getting deja vu.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast It's fine if we want idea generation answers, I just think it needs to be made clear that they are okay when historically they haven't.

KorvinStarmast

We already have tools to deal with that.

NautArch

But just saying "I'm going to ignore this and I don't like when folks bring it up that I'm ignoring it" i do take offense to.

HOw do we have a tool if it's unclear how to use the tool?

that's...not really a useful tool.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Nobody is suggesting "ignoring" anything.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast That was the feeling I got from kryan.

KorvinStarmast

4:58 PM

The flag is tthe tool. A comment is a tool, A down vote is a tool.

NautArch

Sure, but I want to apply that tool as effectively as I can. And that means understanding when to use it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch OK, I see where I have gone of the rails here. My answer took a different tack.

NautArch

But I don't understand how to use it.

It's unclear because of what seems like a community shift. BUt no one is willing to put anything down to help provide direction other than "I disagree with the previous direction."

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Really? Then I got nuthin' Or are you referring to "generic user?"

NautArch

And if supporting answers is our thing here, then asking for support isn't pedantic or nit picking. It's a major part of what we try and do.

@KorvinStarmast I'm referring to me. Not generic. I don't understand when to flag because I don't understand what we look for with GSBS.

KorvinStarmast

4:59 PM

I don't think the community has moved much, and your citation a few days back of that good mxy answer struck me as a thing to link to ... or is the problem that it is under a dupe close?

NautArch

Especially if we disregard previous posts about how to.

@KorvinStarmast Well, the problem is mxy is very clear in what support is. ANd it seems antithetical to kryan's posts.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch heck, we have so many posts on this topic that it is a cacophony. That Mxy answer is to me a good base line.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast But...it's not according to Kryan.

and many who agree with him, it seems.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch And I hope that the mod flag suggestion I made is accepted.

Helwar

@Xirema Silver dragonborn warrior got in there and chilled them to death... the remainders where turned into sheesh kebabs by the rogue and ranger's arrows...

KorvinStarmast

5:01 PM

@NautArch I think he may feel the way I did a few years back about the RAW tag flail: the beating of a dead horse is not productive. But I can't speak for him, so that's a guess at best.

NautArch

But when I ask "hey, i'm confused about this. How else can we be looking at these to be more inclusive?" and i'm told "stop asking, and i'm not telling. I know it when i know it.". Yeah, I got frustrated.

KorvinStarmast

Why do we need that many meta on this topic in two months time? Really, we already had GSBS guidelines. What changed?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Because people are pushing back against those guidelines and there have been several attempts to understand it but no one has actually provided anything. So I think we've tried different ways of approaching.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Let me get us off of this hamsterwheel for a second. How can I improve the "back to stack basics answer?"

Or do I have that as an answer to the wrong meta?

Yuuki

At this point, I just want people to let the policy changes play out. We're spinning off so many hypotheticals, I'm pretty sure they're getting our radio waves in the next galaxy.

NautArch

5:05 PM

@KorvinStarmast fair enough :) I think it's good, but at this point I'd like to hear the different ways we can look at GSBS besides what Mxy said.

That's my sticking point. I honestly don't understand what other way because there has never been another metric besides Mxy's.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch OK, at the moment my inspiration points are zero. If I come up with something, I'll drop one in this weekend. The Missus is out of town, so I'll have time.

NautArch

And every time I ask, it either got duped, or someone like Kryan says "stop asking".

And I get called pedantic and nitpicky.

KorvinStarmast

I can see the frustration in that. Got it. And I still luv ya. :)

NautArch

I've tried to be very friendly and open in trying to understand this, and that's the response back. SO yeah, it's frustrating and honestly I think it Not Nice.

KorvinStarmast

Off to RL meeting, best wishes to all.

Helwar

5:09 PM

I'm not sure if I dare to ask but... what was all that about? I figured debating some meta policy ubt since I'm not very much around :S

NautArch

@Helwar Issues regarding supporting good subjective answers.

and what constitutes support

Helwar

oh, gotcha

one of the most difficult things to accept in SE is that it's very restrictive... but it's very good because it is restrictive. It took me a while to not think that people were being pedantic or dismissive, closing every other question. If I'm not mistaken, deciding where the limits are is the most difficult part and I guess that's why it's so longwinded and polarizes people :S

2

NautArch

@Helwar And that's the conversation I"m trying to have. It seems like the historical limits weren't or aren't really acceptable by a group here. But no one is offering other limits. Just that the historical ones aren't acceptable or necessary.

Helwar

yeah I can see why it's difficult

GcL

5:34 PM

@NautArch I concur about having additional methods spelled out for making good answers would be useful. I do not think the absence of other easily available tools or techniques means that everything is a nail.

NautArch

@GcL If that's how you think I'm coming at this, I think I may not be communicating well. I'm not looking for a nail, I'm looking to understand what qualifies as a supported answer for subjective questions.

GcL

@NautArch Gotcha. I like seeing multiple ways of doing things well or even some common mistakes to avoid. I do not like a required qualifications approach.

Gwideon

hmmmm

Hot RPG Questions

11

Q: How is "slaad" pronounced?

Is there any official pronunciation guideline for how to pronounce "slaad"?

NautArch

5:51 PM

@GcL IT's less a strict set of required qualifications and more a way to look at these answers. But "i know it when I see it" just doesn't do it for me.

GcL

Judging guidelines are useful. A do find a bit of a rubric helpful in many situations. Like litmus paper is sometimes.

NautArch

@GcL That's what I'm looking for! Mostly because the earlier guidelines don't seem to fully cover in the way that others would like.

GcL

Are you looking for one for your personal use?

NautArch

@GcL Nope, I"m looking for one for everyone to use.

GcL

@NautArch And if they don't?

NautArch

5:58 PM

The original GSBS provided one, but that doesn't seem to be sufficient.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@HotRPGQuestions it's pronounced "slaad" duh

NautArch

@GcL Then it should moderated.

Yuuki

@Himitsu_no_Yami With two a's.

Himitsu_no_Yami

exactly

GcL

So less like a suggestion, and more like a rule.

"Do X or else" is how the position sounds to me when there is a rubric everyone has to follow.

Gwideon

6:01 PM

so I asked a question

NautArch

@GcL Maybe I need to back up. Let's start with whether or not all answers need to be supported.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Gwideon then you'll get an answer (probably)

Gwideon

okay

um it has to do with unearthed arcana and homebrew but I linked the relevant homebrew in the question

GcL

@NautArch explicitly supported? for me, no. Should the answer have the support of experience, expertise, or reason? I lean towards yes.

NautArch

@GcL I think that's the first issue. It was my understanding that our standard was supported answers.

Gwideon

6:03 PM

also god I don't know why I keep playing with this player. he's always exploiting loop holes and holes within my own prep to do some pretty mean things sometimes.

NautArch

@GcL The highest voted answer on What are citation expectations states: "Stack Exchange is a rigorous Q&A community with a mission to build up a reliable knowledge base for future readers. It's sort of like Wikipedia in that regard. To accomplish this mission we need our answers to be clearly backed up so visitors can verify our answers for themselves."

:Stack Exchange is a rigorous Q&A community with a mission to build up a reliable knowledge base for future readers. It's sort of like Wikipedia in that regard. To accomplish this mission we need our answers to be clearly backed up so visitors can verify our answers for themselves. Without any citation we are just random people on the internet and our words are worth only so much without any supporting evidence, regardless of what our reputation or standing is inside the community

@Gwideon Put the kaibosh on that stuff early and often.

Gwideon

okay

NautArch

If you don't want PvP, don't allow it. If you don't want loopholes, close them. If they dno't want to play in that environment, let 'em go.

GcL

@NautArch There's no way to verify even explicitly stated "I tried this and it's the best". Also, that might not add to the usefulness of the answer.

So verification can be chucked at the outset for me.

NautArch

@Gwideon You can even sit them down and say "this ends here and now. It's not the table I want to run"

Gwideon

6:06 PM

okay

GcL

I think good answers frequently have links to longer discussions or treatise on topics. I find that very useful.

NautArch

@GcL Well, if that isn't the consensus, then we need a new answer to that question.

Again, I go back to my consulting experience. I could never walk in and just say "based on my experience, you should do X". we always had to support our ideas.

Yuuki

The evergreen advice here, IIRC, is that not playing is better than bad play.

NautArch

@Gwideon How experienced a DM are you?

GcL

@NautArch I've absolutely done that, but not argument from authority. More often it was implicit. "You can do X, but watch out for Y. If you do Z instead, it's more likely to work out for you."

Implicit is the experience and knowledge with doing those things or something similar, but not the explict "believe me because I've been doing it for a long time."

Gwideon

6:09 PM

i have about a year of experience under my belt

NautArch

@Gwideon The Android link doesn't state the creature type...what is it?

GcL

@Gwideon I have terrible experience with belts. I seem to get pinched a lot!

NautArch

@Gwideon Speaking honestly, I would probably suggest holding off on homebrew until you have a better command of the system. But others jump right in, so YMMV.

goodguy5

oh, Gwideon. new avatar

NautArch

@GcL Ah, but how do you know about Y and doing Z instead? That seems to speak from a specific experience wher eyou've learned that.

Gwideon

6:11 PM

@NautArch I'd consider it a construct

yep

NautArch

@Gwideon Okay, that changes some things. 1), it limits what spells you can use on it and 2)a construct is not a device for Remote Access.

GcL

@NautArch Yeah, and they're welcome not to follow the advice. But if I get brought on to give advice about courses of action, that's on them to do it or not.

NautArch

@Gwideon Can you add in the creature type to your question? That answers this particular problem.

Gwideon

okay

MikeQ

@Gwideon So a RAW-only answer would point out that remote access only affects devices, not creatures. Although the warlock could still interfere with devices that the android is using. A better answer might propose an out-of-game approach to stopping such antagonistic playstyles in the first place.

GcL

6:16 PM

@NautArch I think one of the most entertaining ones was basically a recommendation of a specific plumber and a specific hvac firm in the area. I knew they worked well together and had done similar installs. It was probably the most valuable part of the deliverables.

Gwideon

yeah it might

GcL

tech? data? design? science? yeah yeah yeah... but you really need this person and these hvac peope or none of that is going to matter if the equipment isn't installed well.

Gwideon

god i've been having way to much trouble with this player but they're kinda a central part of the friend group so i'm not sure what to do.

MikeQ

Out-of-game conversation. Talk about playstyles and feelings and such.

GcL

@Gwideon I concur with @MikeQ. It sounds like a person issue. Solve using interpersonal techniques.

Ooo... I always highly recommend "I statements" and neutral language.

MikeQ

6:20 PM

Or at least non-evil language

NautArch

@GcL And they likely could back up their recommendation from personal experiences. And should.

@Gwideon Are they a central part of your friend group?

Gwideon

yes. they're one of my best friends

but yeah he's been a bit of a problem sometimes

GcL

@NautArch A long winded story about this one time with a flow cytometer and cell sorter isn't really going to help. "You need your plumbing and hvac people to work well together, or the install is unlikely to be done well enough. Here are two known good entities."

Gwideon

they're the subject of these questions

7

Q: Should I allow a PC's spells to affect a very large space vehicle?

I'm running a sci-fi campaign using D&D 5e, Ultramodern 5e (an add-on that allows you to run modern and sci-fi settings using D&D 5e), with Esper Genesis space combat rules. I have a player who's planning to acquire a spacesuit and, when space combat begins, jump out the airlock and start using s...

dnd-5e spells balance targeting ultramodern5

35

Q: Is there any way to keep a player from killing an NPC?

I was running a one shot for friends and a player had gotten annoyed with an NPC that the other players really liked. This came to a head when after a combat encounter the Player decided to attack the NPC with the intention of killing them. I let one of the other players take the attack as a reac...

dnd-5e problem-players player-vs-player

45

Q: How to deal with a PC being played as homophobic?

I’m about to start a sci-fi campaign using Ultramodern5 (a modification of D&D 5e for non-fantasy settings). I’ve been working with players to help build their characters, and one player character has me a bit worried. The player wants his character to be homophobic. Now I’ve known this player f...

dnd-5e problem-players sexuality player-characters ultramodern5

so um yeah

NautArch

@Gwideon Then talk to him as a friend!

If it doesn't go well, that friendship may have been more tenuous than you thought.

But ultimately, you're all trying to play a game and have fun. If their actions are infringing on other's fun, it's a problem.

Gwideon

6:24 PM

I might have to have a serious talk with the others in my group about how I need to deal with him.

MikeQ

@Gwideon Probably best to talk to him directly first

NautArch

@Gwideon That's...riskier. THen it becomes a gang-up issue. You're the DM and his friend. Take the lead here.

Gwideon

true

I really don't want to kick him but he's starting to show a pattern of problematic behavior

GcL

@Gwideon Can you state that in a neutral tone about what is happening and how you see and feel about it? E.g. When X happens, I feel Y.

Maybe go on about what you would like to see and some of the things you are worried about.

MikeQ

Or a reminder that you want it to be a cooperative friendly game, and if they have an in-game disagreement with the other players, to talk it out rather than immediately resort to force. Odds are, he probably doesn't mean anything harmful, maybe that's just how he's learned to approach these games.

GcL

6:28 PM

Avoid asserting anything about the state of the other person, and if possible just state what happened instead of in terms of who did it.

Gwideon

okay

MikeQ

You're at an advantage here because you two are friends. This would be way more complicated if they were just a loose acquaintance or friend-of-a-friend. Also, when having this conversation, be sure to listen to them too. Maybe their perception of the situation is different than you'd expect.

Gwideon

Alright I'll keep this in mind

I'm honestly getting fed up with this particular player but yeah

anyways I'll shut up

goodguy5

@Gwideon You never need to feel like you're bothering us with your talking/explanation/ranting/etc

worst case scenario, we'll ignore you ;)

GcL

6:44 PM

Well... also i downvote everyone's chats in here. So your chats will also get downvotes in the worst case scenario.

Gwideon

okay

MikeQ

Worst case scenario, everyone is eaten by grizzlies

Yuuki

wurst case scenario, sheep intestine everywhere

GcL

Oooo that would be bad. I do not want to be consumed by bears.

Rubiksmoose

Shockingly, very few people do.

GcL

6:52 PM

Okay. Now I'm certain both of you have been reading German fairy tales.

Yuuki

I know the worst -> wurst pun was obvious, but I figured you'd logically follow that to wurst case -> wurst casing -> sausages are cased in intestine

goodguy5

There are an alarming number of babies in my house

.... which reads way worse now that I type it.

Gwideon

@goodguy5 yeah it does

GcL

@goodguy5 You have alarm babies? What sets them off?

goodguy5

@GcL literally anything. sometimes nothing

but mostly hunger, tiredness, and discomfort

My wife invited a bunch of her mom friends over, and coincidentally most said yes.

So there are 8 or 9 babies in my house, and their mothers.

oddly, all but one are boy babies

GcL

6:55 PM

That's a lot of babies. A plethora of babies.

Gwideon

oh wow

that's honestly to many babies for me atleast

GcL

A ton of tots.

a bunch of babes.

Gwideon

of course I have problems dealing with children in general

Yuuki

@Gwideon Me too, those stubby hands can barely hold a single card, let alone a full hand.

GcL

inundation of infants

goodguy5

6:58 PM

Myriad of Munchkins

Yuuki

Bale of bairns.

GcL

@Yuuki Oh... ughh... my eyes rolled so hard I had to close them to keep them from falling out.

goodguy5

@Yuuki disgusting imagery.

especially when "Barn of Bairns" was right there.

GcL

What's a bairn?

goodguy5

@GcL Scotch slang (might just be the word) for child.

Yuuki

6:59 PM

@goodguy5 I had considered it. Oh yeah, "bunch" but that was already taken.

Numerous newborns.

MikeQ

The proper collective noun is "coven"

goodguy5

@Yuuki I've seen first-hand how a bailing machine works and .... it's not baby friendly.

Gwideon

wow

goodguy5

@MikeQ I don't believe you

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Bushel?

MikeQ

7:00 PM

@goodguy5 See for yourself. They're probably casting spells while the moms aren't looking.

Gwideon

nope

goodguy5

@Yuuki perfect

GcL

@MikeQ I installed those a few time. Getting them all level and lined up is tough.

Especially the uppers

@goodguy5 Those machines definitely don't seem like they'd help you get out of anything.

Gwideon

I've noticed something. my questions for this sci-fi campaign have been really specific

so Skeleton puns anyone?

MikeQ

Only the humerus ones

Gwideon

7:15 PM

what do you have a bone to pick with the not so humerus ones

GcL

they're cowardly

Gwideon

you mean spineless

GcL

Plenty of that, but no guts

Gwideon

lol that tickled my funny bone

GcL

As long as it's good natured ribbing, it's okay by me

Gwideon

7:28 PM

yes yes

Yuuki

Tibia perfectly honest, I only have a few puns in my repertoire, not a skeleton.

Gwideon

lol

Yuuki

I might have more to-marrow.

Gwideon

well it's a rather marrow topic for puns

Yuuki

A spine of the times, I suppose, when you can't scrounge up much humer(us).

Gwideon

7:35 PM

oof that seems rather femurish

Yuuki

As Jack Nicholson once said, "you can't handle the tooth".

Gwideon

lol

this is very punny

i'm running a bit low on puns.

Yuuki

Ulna't make any more puns so you can have some time to recover.

KorvinStarmast

9:09 PM

@GcL I have alarm dogs. But one stays on the floor, not moving, for me to trip over. I think it's a conspiracy.

@Gwideon recharge, every five days, just like your home brew. :)

trogdor

puns puns puns, the best things in the world XD

BESW

Swordsfall Art Booster 1: Vehicles and Transports on Indiegogo only needs $300 more in the next seven days!

The Goose of Gilner Grove by Jenn Martin is a tabletop roleplaying game for 3+ players for 15+ minutes. You play townsfolk attempting to warn a newcomer about the goose that's lived in the area for 20+ years. You take turns telling stories about that time when you saw the goose doing something outrageous.

Andras Deak

9:24 PM

geese are going strong these days

BESW

World Anvil: Makateca by Penta. A world of high fantasy through a Dakota lens. "Traditional fantasy is reinterpreted into an Oceti Sakowin world. Basically, I'm stealing knights and Europe can't do a thing to stop me."

Black Spike

9:46 PM

hi

BESW

[wave]

Transcript for