TRPG General Chat

Say a Player Character (PC) with low HP is in a Cloudkill: When a creature enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, that creature must make a Constitution saving throw. The creature takes 5d8 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a suc...

Xirema

I'm getting 222.242 now.

Still the same odds of being knocked prone, at 97.127%; kind of suspicious about that number now.

David Coffron

Whelp, I'm doing something wrong. I'm getting 320% chance to be prone

Xirema

Um..... yeah, that's.... not right.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron So.... lying on a 50-degree incline?

Xirema

Methodology here.

David Coffron

8:07 PM

How do I math!?

Umm... I thought I could jut add the chance they were already prone by the chance the previous elk knocked him prone

Xirema

Chances of being prone after one attack is the odds that 1d20+5 is less than 13. So about 35%.

Yuuki

Correction, 18-degree incline.

David Coffron

@Xirema Yeah. I got it. I have to multiply the chance of previous elk knocking prone by the chance he wasn't already prone when that previous elk attacked.

Yuuki

David Coffron

So it's chance to already be prone + chance to knock prone given he wasn't already

I get 97.1% chance after the 32nd elk

Xirema

8:11 PM

Yup, that's what I've got.

David Coffron

Actually... 97.1269999

Xirema

7 mins ago, by Xirema

Still the same odds of being knocked prone, at 97.127%; kind of suspicious about that number now.

David Coffron

Two different methods, same numbers. That means it's probably maybe right?

Xirema

I would think so.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron Well, the only method with visual proof is in disagreement.

David Coffron

8:16 PM

@Yuuki Uh....

While I approve of the sketch, I don't think prone-ness is a scalar

G. Moylan

if this hasn't been stacked it needs to be so we can sell it in the cheese shop

David Coffron

@G.Moylan If what hasn't? Making a bunch of elk's hit things?

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron indeed!

Elk cheese is a delicacy in certain circles

Xirema

@G.Moylan It's attached to @goodguy5's post about damage maximization, although I think it's pretty clear this current iteration is non-competitive with the current solutions.

David Coffron

@G.Moylan I mean, it was a hypothesis for how to beat this question

@Xirema Yeah, elks just don't have a high enough chance to hit; I'll look at some more powerful options when I get home today

Xirema

8:21 PM

A Stench Kow (VGM 208) is a strict upgrade to the stats of an Elk/Yak.

+1 to hit, and +1 damage on hit.

Oh wait, it doesn't have a chance to knock prone.

Could still use Flanking rules though.

David Coffron

300.72 with flankink

462 with paralysis

G. Moylan

the ruling on MM with Empowered Evocation directly contradicts how JC said missiles work for Concentration checks. Why am I not surprised...

David Coffron

@G.Moylan Hm? No, they are separate damage instances, but one damage roll. No contradiction fmpov

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron oh perhaps I misread, one sec

@G.Moylan I did! Interesting. How does that affect our expected damage output for MM? Is it a net gain to roll once and apply to each missile or to to want to roll for individual missiles?

in other words: was JC's ruling a nerf?

I suppose I could stack that

Xirema

@DavidCoffron I also get 300.72 with flanking, exactly.

David Coffron

8:30 PM

@G.Moylan It's a buff. Empowered evocation only works on one damage roll in a spell

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron What about it doesn't make sense? If you have a 100% chance to be prone, that means you're guaranteed to go from upright to flat-on-your-face, which is a change of 90-degrees on average. (/s)

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron without that. Just straight MM

@Yuuki facedesk

Yuuki

@G.Moylan I mean, the problem with making one person the arbiter of all rules everywhere is that you assume that one person will make rules consistently.

David Coffron

@G.Moylan Same expected, but more swingy

G. Moylan

@Yuuki he has a bad habit of contradicting the actual rules or his previous rulings. See Shieldmaster and Dragon's Breath. BUT, he essentailly acknowledged that with the global retcon at the beginning of this year

@G.Moylan and I think going forward they're trying to be more mindful

NautArch

8:34 PM

@Yuuki Not sure when I can join you in monsterhunter, but I've definitely figured it out :)

David Coffron

8:56 PM

@G.Moylan Recently I applied to join a roll20 group that literally pointed to this site for rulings on certain things. I was like, oh... I wrote that answer!

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron hehehe did you tell them?

David Coffron

@G.Moylan No xD. It was buried in the "rulings" section of their campaign guide.

Not even sure if all the players read it. Also, I evidently didn't get the gig as its been a couple weeks since the LFG post

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron :(

David Coffron

@G.Moylan It's w/e my new Saturday group is awesome, so worth it in the end.

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron good to hear!

Random question, are there any MTG level 2 judges in this room?

David Coffron

8:59 PM

@G.Moylan Ha. I am a baby-judge (I've studied the rules and know more than the average MtG player); what's the question?

(I have no idea what the levels mean though; never looked into judging tbh)

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron well I intend to take the level 1 tests soon and I jsut wanted to talk to a level 2 about it. Like what they found most useful when they were level 1, etc

David Coffron

@G.Moylan Maybe try the chat room for this stack?

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron didn't know that was a thing. Thanks!

David Coffron

Me either until I had a question about Settlers of Catan that had been asked here before XD

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron quiz time! what happens when player 1 attacks with a Grizzly Bears, and before blockers casts Giant Growth, targeting their bear. The spell resolves. Still before blocks, Player 2 casts Ovinize, targeting the grizzly bear. What does the bear look like before damage is assigned?

JohnP

9:03 PM

@G.Moylan I so want to make a yo mama joke here...

G. Moylan

@JohnP lol I've got a series of jokes about cows that eventually lead into a "your mom!' gets 'em every time

Someone_Evil

@G.Moylan I'm gonna guess 3/4, because of layers?

Which is pretty buff for a sheep (based on the art of Ovinize)

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Ovinize takes priority in the stack, right? Or did they errata the stack?

Black Spike

@G.Moylan looking on gatherer wizards website, text on the Card is slightly different to the quoted "Card text" ...

G. Moylan

@BlackSpike yes the text to the side is the official rules text. Printed text may have been updated by rules changes. It's called "oracle text" and takes precedent for all printed versions

@MikeQ GG has resolved, the stack is empty except ovinize

Black Spike

9:08 PM

@G.Moylan Got ya. In which case 3/4.

Someone_Evil

@G.Moylan Aren't you asking for the state of the bear after that spell has resolved?

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil yes

Black Spike

(Giant Sheep-Bear! It's a bit like an owl-bear ... but more ... sheepish?)

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan eh bad phrasing. Ovinize resolves, what happens

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Ah okay. GG lasts until end of turn, and the target creature is still itself, so yeah, it keeps the +3/+3. Total of 3/4.

G. Moylan

9:10 PM

Both effects operate until end of turn, so they're considered Continuous effects. These operate in a ruleset called "layers" which organizes how effects like this happen.

so @Someone_Evil is correct as to the why

Black Spike

I haven't played MtG for ... 20 years? Was never a huge player, but some friends were ... placed in reasoable sized UK tounaments

Rubiksmoose

Hey, Spiel des Jahres winners announced!

MikeQ

@Someone_Evil It is also explained here

G. Moylan

@MikeQ lol yes it is. It's a common example to use since the effects are fairly straightforward. That article does have some gnarly example questions, though

Layers are about the most complicated section of the rules. If you can deal with Layers you can handle the rest.

Black Spike

Silliest deck I recall was Cycle of Life/Quirrion (?) Ranger green uber-mana, turn Bird of Paradise into 20/20 , or some such monstrosity

G. Moylan

9:16 PM

I tend to play either Enduring Ideal or Doomsday in most formats I play. or just MUD.

Black Spike

Tap, return to hand, untap, tap, play, untap, return to hand, play, tap, untap, rinse repeat

I always had a fondness for Black/Green. But as I say, I was never an expert

G. Moylan

@BlackSpike Kiki-Jiki and Restoration Angel want a word.

JohnP

@BlackSpike I have no idea what you just said here...

Black Spike

@G.Moylan Are they some johnny-come-lately, new-fangled cards? (20 years!)

David Coffron

@G.Moylan Dang it! I missed the opportunity to correctly answer a layers question because of my drive home from work

Black Spike

9:20 PM

@JohnP tbh, neither have I! it was a nightmare to watch my mate play the deck, try to keep track of what they were actually doing! :D

G. Moylan

Kiki-Jiki: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=438702
Restoration Angel: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=438594

@BlackSpike look up Second Sunrise from about 5 years ago and try to follow someone playing that. or High Tide

JohnP

@BlackSpike I don't know as I've ever actually even seen a Magic deck.

Black Spike

@JohnP You lucky, lucky person!

David Coffron

@G.Moylan Second Sunrise? Is that the inspiration for Approach of the Second Sun (one of my favorite combo decks in recent years)

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G. Moylan

9:22 PM

@DavidCoffron if that's another name for eggs or KCI eggs then yes

Black Spike

Got so many (2nd hand) horror stories about MtG ... how it saves you money (!), how people lost their card collections, broken friendships, etc

JohnP

Huh. 5 more answer votes and I repcap on here for the day. Cool.

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron I liked the deck (both major iterations) but they were terrible for the organized play environment. the 1st because it took forever to play and matches frequently went WAY over time. The 2nd because it relied on an obtuse timing about certain mana abilities that virtually no player understood going in.

BESW

@Ash The number of community copies has gone up since I last checked, despite seeing several on Twitter saying they took one for themself.

So Working As Intended, I think?

David Coffron

@G.Moylan I don't think so. Approach of the Second Sun was a standard deck a couple years ago

G. Moylan

9:26 PM

@DavidCoffron oh wait... I'm recalling that now

David Coffron

@G.Moylan It was kind of a UW control deck with a special W/C

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron oh THAT. yes

@DavidCoffron yeah you played the namesake card twice

David Coffron

I mean it was up against temur Aetherworks Marvel and Zombies so it was never the most successful, but I liked it

G. Moylan

@DavidCoffron combo decks often suffer that fate but they're still great fun

David Coffron

@G.Moylan At least there are some competitive combos in modern (if not the most interactive decks). Hi Titanshift, Storm, and Unlife

Black Spike

9:30 PM

Any simple-to-play black/green these days?

David Coffron

@BlackSpike What format? Or just casual?

G. Moylan

something something Dredge

Black Spike

@DavidCoffron casual. (or some kind of tournament, just out of interest :) ) not that I'll ever play

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan it's stupid OP right now because of a dumb card named Hogak

David Coffron

@BlackSpike There's a BG tempo deck in modern

Dark Confidant, Scavenging Ooze, and Tarmagoyf

You can find it under Golgari Midrange or sometimes called "The Rock"

Goyf, and Confidant are pricey tho

Black Spike

9:35 PM

Is Hypnotic Spectre still in?

David Coffron

@BlackSpike gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/…

G. Moylan

@BlackSpike it's Modern-legal, yes

Black Spike

Cool.

G. Moylan

Modern is anything printed in 8th edition forward with a ban list

named for when they transitioned to what at the time was the "modern" card border

Black Spike

There's an 8th edition?!? :lol:

G. Moylan

9:37 PM

they just released M20, which is about 20th ish core set

they're up to the 70s in expansion count now

David Coffron

I haven't played mill in a while

I wonder how it shapes up in the current meta

G. Moylan

mill is never that great but it's almost always fun (for the person playing mill)

Black Spike

Stasis/turbo-Stasis? I'm sure the actual cards have been replaced, but "Untap? I think not! hahahahaah!" is that a thing?

G. Moylan

you can build literally anything. Whether it's competitive or not will vary greatly. Consult the almighty mtgtop8.com for current metas in a variety of formats

but all that really matters is if you're having fun

Black Spike

10:04 PM

Our next game (as soon as I've brought current one to satisfying conclusion) is heavily-house-ruled Rolemaster. First thought was Ranger, but I may do "outdoorsman" as Monk. "Wandering Hermit" type

The Oracle

10:20 PM

2

Q: Should we Rename the [adnd] tag to [adnd-1e]?

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discussion tags

Mark Wells

11:08 PM

@BlackSpike The trend in card design in recent years has been toward letting people play their decks, though I can't vouch for the tournament meta.

Black Spike

@MarkWells That sounds like a good way to go.

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