TRPG General Chat

Miniman

12:00 AM

@Ben That means that's over, right?

Ben

@Miniman Yeah. Final game was last night. NSW 2-1

nitsua60

@HotRPGQuestions Play a board game.

trogdor

@nitsua60 XD

Miniman

@Ben That means I can order pizza again!

Ben

@Miniman Hahaha 110% accurate lol

On Origin nights you have to order your pizza 2 nights prior, for 3pm, and it will still not be ready until 9pm.

trogdor

12:12 AM

Pizza

Wat?

Miniman

I feel reasonably certain you're trolling me right now.

But basically, it's like a giant open grilled cheese sandwich.

trogdor

No not that

Ben

@Miniman Bahahahaha

nitsua60

@trogdor Seriously--that just sounds like so much more drama than I have any interest in handling.... If nothing else, play an RPG with a much more flexible magic system.

trogdor

Why the heck does pizza have anything to do with soccer/football?

@nitsua60 yeah I mean good lord

This guy has to control what his players get to play as? Come on

nitsua60

12:16 AM

(There's an old FUDGE variant I like that has mana points for "powering" magical effects, and a quick little set of lookups for how much a thing will cost based on size of effect, duration, range, impact, how well you know/connect to the target, &c. So you can warm up someone's tea pretty cheaply, but boiling their blood is serious work. But it gets easier if you have a lock of their hair....)

Ben

@trogdor Game nights are basically an excuse to scream at your TV all night with friends and booze. So the obvious answer for sustenance in these situations is "pizza".

nitsua60

@trogdor Well, I can get the frustration of someone "cheating," as OP says, being undesirable. Personally, I don't care that much. But I can't fault them for caring. Controlling the class, though, seems like a solution destined to fail.

Ben

It is an unwritten rule that if you work in a pizza place, no one gets game night off. They are the three busiest nights of the year.

nitsua60

@Ben Funny--RomCom night is where my daughters and I weep at the TV, and the obvious answer for sustenance is also pizza =)

trogdor

@nitsua60 yeah but exactly, they want to ban a class the player wants to play as,.. that's kinda gross in and of itself

Ben

12:19 AM

Pizza is the answer to a lot of situations haha

trogdor

@Ben ah, so you don't order it because good luck getting it on time in that situation

Ben

@Miniman Also, accurate.

nitsua60

@trogdor Read another way: they anticipate the player not playing as that declared class (rules, after all), and that's their problem. Presumably OP wouldn't mind the player playing a wizard by the rules =)

trogdor

@nitsua60 ah ok,.. that would be a problem

Their question heading makes it look like a whole other issue

nitsua60

In any case, I stand behind Gloomhaven as the proper solution =)

Miniman

12:22 AM

@trogdor Yeah. Ordering takeaway in general is a problem on those nights.

Ben

@trogdor yeah, pretty much. I used to work in a pizza place, and you'd start at 10am, and it was all go from the start, making sure you had 2000+ pizza bases (or at least the capacity to cover that amount), enough ingredients, staff, drivers, and a psych-up session for all the kids working at the counter (cos they're the ones dealing with the customers). Then you'd get 200 pizza pre-orders to be ready by 7pm. You can't make them until 6.30, because they'd just go cold.

nitsua60

Apropos of nothing: today I learned that being born on American Samoa does not grant one US citizenship!? What the what?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Is Gloomhaven impossible to cheat at? Because that's the real requirement here.

Ben

And it does not stop until you convince the last customer that WE. ARE. CLOSED-UH. At around 3am.

nitsua60

@Miniman Good point. Rock-paper-scissors.

Miniman

12:25 AM

@nitsua60 Alternatively, a game where cheating outrageously is the whole point.

nitsua60

@Miniman Rochambeau?

Okay, according to WP Rochambeau played as a game is just RPS. Which leads me to ask the room:

trogdor

@nitsua60 congratulations, you found one of the dumb things the USA does to seem random island territories

Your prize is a general feeling of disgust

Miniman

@nitsua60 Or Janken?

nitsua60

What do you call a game where you and your opponent alternate turns holding down your inseams while your opponent launches a kick at your crotch?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Dumb.

nitsua60

12:27 AM

'Cause I grew up calling that "Rochambeau."

trogdor

Ouch

No thanks

nitsua60

@trogdor Not if you grip those inseams tight enough.

trogdor

I'll go with not the extremely painful activity

@nitsua60 don't even

nitsua60

It's a game of chicken, obviously. Your tactic is to kick so hard as to convince your opponent that there's no way they're keeping their grip next time, and they bow out.

trogdor

XD

Ben

12:28 AM

@nitsua60 That's why they invented tasers.

nitsua60

I've never actually seen someone get kicked (corporeally) in this game.

trogdor

I feel like it's 200% not worth the risk

nitsua60

As a math teacher: I approve of this ^^ analysis.

Whoop! Urban dictionary has me covered: roshambo it is!

Miniman

Actually, while we're on this topic, if I challenged anyone here to a game of Chopsticks, would anyone understand what I meant?

nitsua60

(First google result for "crotch kicking game")

@Miniman | |

Miniman

12:32 AM

(Leaving aside the difficulties involved in playing over the web.)

Ben

@Miniman [Ringing bells]

nitsua60

(Those are my two extended pointer fingers.)

Miniman

@nitsua60 I got that!

nitsua60

I think [L/R] and a display of the state after each "throw" would work.

I mean, [L/R] should work, but verification's nice.

Miniman

Ah, but you need to be able to indicate tapping an opponent's hand.

nitsua60

12:35 AM

That's what I meant by [L/R] I'd be indicating which hand.... oh, right. So it really would need to be [LL/LR/RL/RR].

Even better: 0,1,2,3.

BESW

Kickstarter: moonflower is a GM-less tabletop role-playing game about changes and compromises, guided by tarot cards and oriented for one-shots without preparations.

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: Can a Beast Master ranger have its beast chase down and attack enemies?

I have two related questions. I'm looking for RAW answers, as I play in Adventurers League. Say you are outside: Can a Beast Master Ranger command their pet to chase down enemies? Like having a Mastiff chase down a thief? Can a Beast Master Ranger in turn command that animal to attack repeated...

BESW

Principia Apocrypha: Principles of Old School RPGs is a new, free Primer for OSR and other Old School Style RPG Gaming in the form of a collection of Apocalypse World-style GM (and player) Principles with text from Ben Milton, Steven Lumpkin, and David Perry.

Ben

GcL

I'd sleep under that quilt.

Who am I kidding. I'd wear it like a cape.

Shalvenay

12:54 AM

hey there @linksassin, how're things going?

linksassin

@Ben Was that a rugby reference to a Victorian? To me the "blues" are languishing in 17th place.

@Shalvenay G'day. Things are ok. Could be better but no point complaining.

Shalvenay

ok albeit rather slow over here

Ben

@linksassin Lol. All I really knew is that you're... South of me. Haha

Is that just an Australian phrase? "Up the [insert sports team]"?

linksassin

@Ben I'm from Melbourne. Rugby is the sport for blokes not fit enough to play AFL. Plus anything that means NSW people are unhappy is a win for me :P

@Ben I'm not sure. I feel like it is.

Ben

Yeah

Shalvenay

1:00 AM

hey there btw @NautArch, long time no see, how've things been? :)

V2Blast

so... it's looking more and more like my CoS group has 2 players unable to play on Wednesdays and 1 unable to play on Thursdays (when we used to play). at least for this week

Shalvenay

@V2Blast oof

V2Blast

1 of the ones who can't do Thursday is one of the 3 original players (including me), and I'd like to make sure he can still play

Ben

@V2Blast Feels. Our group is currently on hiatus. One player has an inconsistent schedule, and the other has family visiting

V2Blast

we added 3 other players, but it's looking like at least one of them has another game on Wednesdays that doesn't look like it's moving

GcL

1:18 AM

@Ben scheduling is the the only foe that can TPK an entire party without lifting a finger.

2

The struggle is real

Ben

@GcL It's the reason why my Dragonborn became Schrodinger's Dragonborn.

GcL

@Ben He got scheduled into a box?!

or boxed in by his schedule?

Ben

He was left unconscious but stable right before the big boss fight.

Statistically, the boss fight could have gone either way, but then the group fell apart, and the game was abandoned.

GcL

The big boss probably has his own scheduling issues. Likely dragon man will probably come to wondering where everyone went

Ben

The Dragonborn is the Cat.
The Box is the Game.
The Shedule was Schrodinger's Experiment.

@GcL It is canon that he both does, and does not exist.

He is like Kaldor Draigo - he appears when the situation summons him.

V2Blast

1:39 AM

@Ben Is Kaildor Draigo related to Khal Drogo?

:P

Ben

@V2Blast Maybe inspired haha

Shalvenay

1:57 AM

@linksassin mind telling me a bit more about your freeform experience btw?

SmokeDetector

2:09 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer (346): Does a spellcaster know when their spell has no effect due to a save or immunity? by Mary on rpg.SE

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: When casting Eldritch Blast with the Agonizing Blast eldritch invocation, what do I add to my damage roll?

This is my first time playing a warlock and I'm still fairly new to tabletop games, so I could use guidance. I know that eldritch blast does 1d10 force damage, and by 17th level, it has four beams when cast. The PHB description for the Agonizing Blast eldritch invocation (PHB, p. 110) says: ...

dnd-5e warlock ability-scores eldritch-invocations

Glazius

2:55 AM

...man, now I want to know what many different areas say "add ability score".

nitsua60

Bb18: Indomitable might. Sorta.

Actually, I can't think of anything that has you add ability score. Use it, sure. But not add it.

Joel Harmon

Anyone happen to know if you can spoiler a mathjax table?

GcL

3:11 AM

@JoelHarmon good question. Lemme give it a shot

Joel Harmon

@GcL I'm attempting it now in an answer, and the preview isn't handling it as I'd like.

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon I've asked in Math.SE's main room: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/36/mathematics

Joel Harmon

That's probably a worthwhile approach.

(Thanks!)

GcL

I was monkeying about with the mathjax support to try to force an entire table to justify as would a float, but to no avail. Might go dig up some of the wrapping hijinks I tried there if I can find that markdown

nitsua60

4

A: Is it possible to spoiler multi-line mathjax?

If you ever want to do such, I would recommend the alternative format: >! \begin{align} a=b \\ b=c \\ c=d \end{align} This allows multiple lines, as well as allowing preview while editing. The problem occurs any time you attempt to do dollar signs with multi-line spoilers. One may also wish...

might help?

Joel Harmon

3:17 AM

Hmm.

GcL

@nitsua60 Good find.

I was trying to find the html style tags for mathjax similar to how you have to do it to wrap code blocks

>! $$ \begin{array}{|c|c|c|c|} \hline 1& -1 & 1 & -1 \\ \hline \end{array} $$

That'll work. You need to inline the whole thing. newlines bork it

BESW

I'm gonna have a Lady Blackbird con table for seven hours this weekend. There aren't scheduled times for anything unless I want to do it myself, and it's been my experience that doesn't really work for these groups. How many sets of LB game material should I print out?

I'm thinking four. A game usually takes about two hours, which would be three games, and last time around I handed out one of my sets to people who couldn't play there, so they could do it at home.

trogdor

Seems reasonable to me

GcL

@JoelHarmon You can also make it an image and stuff the image into a spoiler block.

BESW

3:33 AM

I think I'm also going to print out We Forest Three.

Last time I wound up at several points with just one person at the table and let's face it Lady Blackbird is pants with just one player. I did a bit of Roll For Shoes with them but I think We Forest Three would be a great alternative option.

Joel Harmon

@GcL Thanks for the assist. Now that I've got it, I'm not sure spoilering it is what I wanted in the first place, though. Here's my current result; suggestions welcome. rpg.stackexchange.com/a/151537/28580

linksassin

@Shalvenay Sure what do you want to know? It started as a 5e game but the DM didn't love rolling dice and preferred a good story. So we just kind of went with it.

trogdor

@BESW that also seems like a great plan

GcL

@JoelHarmon Probably wouldn't put a coding solution to that question. Anydice is a discrete stats calculator that has it's own syntax. I think asking someone to install a python interpreter and learn the basics of a programming language is a bridge too far.

Although, we do have a room for talking about such things.

Elemental Plane of Math

RPG.SE's space for quarantining Probability/Math/Statistics re...

Joel Harmon

@GcL I'm not asking anyone to install an interpreter; I'm showing my work. The question in my mind is "what are the probabilities?" with an oh-by-the-way of "I think AnyDice can get me there".

I saw a reference to such a room, but didn't realize it had actually materialized.

GcL

3:42 AM

Yeah. It's a good place to post tables of numbers with inscrutable headers.

Joel Harmon

Yeah, that's why I led with some descriptive paragraphs.

GcL

@JoelHarmon I suggest putting the code on a github gist and linking to it in case someone was interested. The tables are informative though.

Joel Harmon

@GcL They'd better be informative. It isn't an answer without them.

And as always, suggestions are very welcome.

GcL

@JoelHarmon The second table could be abbreviated with the observation for any set of 3 die of the same type, there will always be 1 way to get a three of a kind, 3 ways to get two of a kind, and 6 ways to get each combination where the values don't match

V2Blast

About to stream our D&D 5e actual-play podcast in about 20 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/events/zCk8eD_HT_OtfUg-IutT-g

In a universe adjacent to our own lies a world known as Runia. This world, once peaceful and idyllic, is now threatened by a monstrous being from its prehistory. A group of adventurers known as Whiskey Company have risen up to do what they can to fight this entity known only as Nagat. They have trekked far across the mortal realms in search of the shards of Barrinoth, the Titan of Justice, in hopes of returning him to his full power.

GcL

3:46 AM

Just demo with two lines of example for each of those, and then summarize the conclusion that you expect the reader to draw from that.

Joel Harmon

@GcL Sure, mathematically, but I'm not sure how I'd present that.

GcL

@JoelHarmon I suggest picking a couple of rows for each instead of the entire table. The full table is kind of a wall of numbers. I would expect the people that like walls of numbers already know the answer to the OPs question themselves.

Glazius

Man, it happened again. I was vanity-searching one of the nonsense names I like to use in answers and came across some sites which had auto-translated Stack content with different branding on it.

("Dark Stobolous", in Arabic, Polish, and I believe also Finnish?)

Joel Harmon

@Glazius At least they translated it. I've seen sites just do raw copies of the text and present it as their own. I believe the question about drinking a potion underwater, which was answered by a guy who drank a bottle of wine underwater, had that happen somewhere.

Glazius

Fair enough. Never expected to have my own set of trap streets, but here we are.

V2Blast

4:08 AM

We're live!

GcL

@JoelHarmon That's a party trick for drinking beer underwater. You blow bubbles into the bottle, right?

Joel Harmon

@GcL I wouldn't know. If a beer is worth drinking, it's worth sipping and enjoying.

Anyway, I'm off; thanks again for the help.

GcL

Ciao

V2Blast

technical difficulties forced cancellation :(

trogdor

4:25 AM

Aw dang :(

Ben

Pacifistic Barbarian: Doesn't roll to attack; instead rolls to forcefully disarm and sheathe opponents weapons.

V2Blast

lol

BESW

@Ben I once had a paladin who specialized in tying people up mid-combat.

Ben

@BESW The name's Indiana Johannes

BESW

He could hogtie one humanoid per attack and had special anti-magic handcuffs that prevented spellcasting.

Ben

4:29 AM

Hahaha that's awesome

trogdor

I once had a fighter,

... wait he chewed on people

XD

Ben

So long as he didn't swallow. Chewing is ok, consumption is not. :P

trogdor

He might have done some of that

It's kinda complicated

Ben

Haha

user15026

@BESW >.>

user15026

4:35 AM

@GcL okay now I am curious.

trogdor

@Ash not like that XD ( I hope at least)

BESW

@Ash You get your mouth around the neck as soon as you open the bottle so that the water doesn't get in, but then you can't drink because there's a vacuum. So you blow into the bottle and that forces the drink out.

Replace the drink with air.

user15026

How do you not choke on it?

Ben

@Ash That's the party trick

user15026

trogdor

4:37 AM

How do you not drown

user15026

@trogdor also the party trick, I presume :P

trogdor

@Ash look he was hungry, and he didn't know goblins were sapient

user15026

@trogdor oh, a common mistake, that ;)

trogdor

Lol

V2Blast

@trogdor did he try asking them

trogdor

4:39 AM

I'm not proud of it obviously

@V2Blast no he didn't, though it became apparent later when the goblins formed a resistance group

Against..

Bael Turath

Probably before that even

But it certainly was obvious at that point

Ben

@trogdor BT: [Looks perplexed... points at self questioningly]

trogdor

@Ben the Tiefling Empire that existed Durning the time we were playing our main 4e campaign

Hot RPG Questions

5:59 AM

8

Q: How can I deal with a player trying to insert real-world mythology into my homebrew setting?

I have just started GMing a homebrew campaign with a group of relatively inexperienced players. I have only played with one of them before (I have GMed for him as well as been a fellow player with him), and he is notorious for being a problem player. In fact, I know of at least one group who refu...

dnd-5e gm-techniques problem-players religions-and-deities

V2Blast

6:55 AM

It's my birthday

5

BESW

Many happy returns of the day!

V2Blast

Thanks!

trogdor

hey congrats! XD

Carcer

7:32 AM

harpy bartday

Hot RPG Questions

1

Q: What do the Coming of Age and Dedication options in the Ceremony spell mean by "only once"?

I found a question regarding the Wedding option in the spell ceremony - What qualifies a creature as being "widowed" for the purposes of Ceremony? - but saw none about the other options. The description of the ceremony spell (XGtE, p. 151) says, next to the Coming of Age and Dedication: For...

dnd-5e spells stacking

Wrigglenite

8:55 AM

@V2Blast Happy birthday!

Derpy

oh, it's @V2Blast birthanniversary?

then we should give him a present, and what better than this nice head-cannon I just though of.

You see, I was looking at Wikipedia to check if the famous "Open, Sesame" phrase from Ali Baba was still the same in the "original" version... and to my great surprise it is.

So, in an attempt to explain why Ali Baba had a magical door that required "sesame" to open... I have though of a personal headcanon that I will share with you as a special present. Am I not nice?

kviiri

I presume English speakers might assume it's a pun on "says me" but it's sesame in every language that I know of

Derpy

So, listen well to this old story that few others know. Far before Ali Baba found the empty cave, another character created it and crafted that magic spell.

It was no other than Cookie Monster, who used the cave as a stash for all the cookies he "borrowed" over the years.

In fact, the original formula was "Open, Sesame Street".... but sadly the last part was lost... until today.

Now you too know the truth. Make good use of this.

and thanks to the gray pony lame joke, an embarrassing silence befell the room

BESW

9:23 AM

@kviiri Yeah, the joke is that he's not very bright but very ambitious, and it's a really common word. He gets stuck in the cave because he can remember is that it's a grain but can't remember which grain, and is yelling "Open wheat! Open barley!" when the thieves find him.

(Although the story is usually associated with One Thousand and One Nights, it didn't get added to that collection until a French publication in 1707. The author claimed it's oral tradition from Syria. No earlier written record exists.)

kviiri

9:47 AM

Seems dubious

Meanwhile in the kitchen, today's meal is gluten sausage, mushrooms and sauerkraut. Cabin trip leftover hash.

Ben

Derpy

@BESW seems someone actually asked on a popular network for collecting questions and answers.

15

Q: Origin of the phrase "Open Sesame"

The phrase, "Open Sesame", is a curious one indeed. Until a few days ago I foolishly believed that it was derived from a slurring of the words "Open, says me". But after coming to the story of Ali Baba And The Forty Thieves in my copy of The Arabian Nights, in which Ali Baba opens a magical doo...

arabic-literature one-thousand-and-one-nights

trogdor

10:25 AM

@Ben lol

kviiri

Wow, the seitan bratwurst and sauerkraut totally rocked my taste buds

Yumyum

trogdor

oooooh

that sounds pretty good

V2Blast

10:42 AM

@Wrigglenite Thank you!

@Derpy I approve of this

@kviiri sounds intriguing

BESW

10:53 AM

I've played We Forest Three twice now. It's good.

trogdor

wow Twice?

sheesh XD

BESW

I haven't won yet. The first time I turned into a monster when my soul's resilience gave out as the Second Sister told me a heartbreaking secret in the back of a taxi. The second time I was overwhelmed by the Third Sister's song of anger and vengeance.

trogdor

wait I thought they were supposed to be helping you?

BESW

Oh, you're there to supplicate them. That doesn't mean they're harmless.

trogdor

fair enough

like messing with Fey

Akixkisu

11:12 AM

Does anyone know how to search for exact scores of posts instead of score ranges (score:+/- x; score:+/- x..)?

BESW

Sdjz

@Akixkisu Is this what you meant?

Akixkisu

@Sdjz sweet, you add the number after the dots, thanks.

Shalvenay

11:34 AM

@linksassin ah. online or face-to-face, first off?

KorvinStarmast

12:32 PM

@V2Blast so now I can wish you happy birthday. We have cake.

@G.Moylan Sky cranes rock. IIRC, there are still a few doing service in Australia, and a few other out of the way places.

Derpy

@KorvinStarmast Muffin?

nitsua60

@V2Blast HIP PAP PAPPY BTHUTHDA!

KorvinStarmast

@Derpy Not Understanding the jest. (Am a bit under the weather, so can't drink as much coffee as usual)

Derpy

12:49 PM

Derpy Hooves - Muffin?

►

G. Moylan

1:02 PM

@KorvinStarmast I think Chinooks have replaced them for the most part

@KorvinStarmast did you redeem that link?

NautArch

@Akixkisu WIth the bounty on this question, is there a class or feature I should be looking for?

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan The email from them is sitting in my inbox for when I go home. Last night, we ended taking Mrs S out for Birthday dinner, and then a long walk with the dogs, so I am not able to proceed further until I get a bit of down time.

NautArch

happy bday @V2Blast! Are you doing any special copy editing?

G. Moylan

@KorvinStarmast if you typed in your email and they sent you an email, you've successfully redeemed everything!

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan There are somethings that a Sky Crane can do that a Chinook cannot do, but for the most part, heavy lift in the US Army is Chinook. Yeah.

@G.Moylan Then my answer is Yes! Redeemed! :)

G. Moylan

1:10 PM

@KorvinStarmast Hooray!

KorvinStarmast

IIRC, back in the 90's there were still some Sky Crane units in the reserves, but I think those are all gone now. I"d have to check the National Guard order of battle to be sure.

G. Moylan

I wouldn't be surprised if they keep one or two around, but I can't think of something they'd be trying to lift that a Chinook couldn't handle

for military purposes at least

KorvinStarmast

There used to be some containerized stuff that only a sky crane could lift, but I am not sure if those modules are still part of the deployable kit ... been too many years since I wrote a TPFDD

shudders at the pain of that memory Well, I didn't write a whole one, but I contributed to a few.

G. Moylan

I didn't know what that was so I googled it and yeah it instantly didn't sound fun

NautArch

1:45 PM

Anyone have the new Acquisitions Incorporated to see if there's something in there about learning CR?

David Coffron

@V2Blast I bid on you a day of happy births. (I think that;'s the wrong order though...)

NautArch

2:13 PM

Can we vote to reopen this question. New user and I think it would help the community to keep it up.

Mostly because it's very clever :)

Sdjz

@NautArch I believe being closed by the community means that it was OP that accepted the other question as a duplicate.

Oh wait wrong question, I meant about the +1 bow and ammunition thing

@NautArch Did you mean undelete the question?

NautArch

@Sdjz yes, yes i did. Rubiks did it.

Super clever use of the spells, too.

Akixkisu

@NautArch I have not delved into that yet, thus the bounty. The result might be that there is nothing new to add to that list. I'd look into the books that have been released since then.

NautArch

@Akixkisu okay, I don't own AI so I can't see if there's something in there.

Rubiksmoose

@Akixkisu Just a note about this comment: I assume you're talking about my answer? But I'm not sure how my answer could be seen as relying on JC so much as using it for support or why that should be noted as a point of critique.

Akixkisu

2:20 PM

@NautArch I'd recommend against purchasing, the book has the first options that might make it on my 5e ban list (not a thing that I'm into). Unless you are in for the fluff, the fluff is mixed, but some of it is rather entertaining.

Rubiksmoose

@Akixkisu What options would those be?

NautArch

@Akixkisu Ha! Yeah, i'm not too fond of how WoTC is expanding their offerings. The DMsGuild basically turned dandwiki into legitimate (anyone can upload and bingo bango bongo, it's fine). And then including a non-WoTC produced book based on AI that often goes away from the rules seems problematic.

If they wanted to add it/make it, they should have.

Akixkisu

@Rubiksmoose No, your answer doesn't rely on JC rulings it makes a clear distinction (though to see that also reflected in an answer tha references that would be nice to see).

Carcer

I am here to rain on your parade, nautarch

Akixkisu

@Rubiksmoose three spells, two magical items, 1 vehicle. Are the things that I'm considering, I'm almost certain that I will ban Fast Friends.

Rubiksmoose

2:26 PM

@Akixkisu Gotcha! Well I'm planning on adding some information to that answer.

When I get the chance.

Akixkisu

I feel like to the only option that might be a starting point to salvage Fast Friends is to turn it into a 5th level spell instead of a third level spell.

Carcer

I have unrained

NautArch

@Carcer wut?

@Akixkisu WHy do you not like fast friends or feel a need to nerf it?

Also, for somer eason I can click and see the spell, but I don't have access to the rest of AI. Guessing someone in my chatizen campaignjust bought the spells?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch oh I think that must have been me!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose ah!

Rubiksmoose

2:35 PM

I bought them to answer Akixkisu's questions actually lol

Akixkisu

@NautArch due to what NPCs can do with it.

Rubiksmoose

(and because I was intrigued by them and interested in new spells)

David Coffron

@NautArch You'll have the whole book in a few days. I get paid on Friday and plan to pick it up

NautArch

@Akixkisu Well, there are spells that would be problematic for NPCs to use against PCs in other materials, too.

Akixkisu

@NautArch yes and those come at a stage where players can deal with them.

@NautArch compare Fast Friends to Geas for instance.

On a surface level Geas is clearly superior to Fast Friends, but the issue is rather in how it affects agency at a much earlier stage to such a tremendous impact.

Unreleted to whether you can tell a player to get on top of that 60meter cliff and jump down in a way that they could potentially survive.

"Would you be so kind as to cast fireball on that group of people?" and other issues.

NautArch

2:45 PM

@Akixkisu Personally, I'd never use any agency-stealing tactic against my players. I hated it when my DM used suggestion on us and forced us to accept it.

Those are good spells for players->NPC. But NPC->Player? No way.

Akixkisu

My main table is a Gritty Realism group and they are in for that (if it comes well dosed).

GcL

@NautArch Yeah... tricky wicket. I had a mechanic where some of the PCs, via insanity, were unable to recognize some aberrations as enemies. The player reasoned that it went the other way, or that they'd be attacked and break the effect. He hugged one "as if it were a long lost buddy"... essentially taking it out of combat and forcing a very peculiar dialog.

Akixkisu

That spell doesn't even have a rare material cost to gate it in a realistic setting.

GcL

So it doesn't always turn out poorly.

NautArch

@GcL The madness stuff can be fun - i was okay when we used that because it made sense within the story. And that still gives agency to the player as to how they want to deal with the insanity/madness.

G. Moylan

2:49 PM

I think the stuff in the AI book is supposed to be taken with a grain of salt. Much of the content seems designed to be silly

NautArch

But things where the DM tells you what you can/can't do is where I personally draw the line.

@G.Moylan Yeah. It seems like you really need to have watched the show in order to understand where it fits.

I've listened to that stuff a bit and it's fun/funny - but it's weird for them to have a 3rd party publish the materials.

They go off-rules quite a bit, so a rulebook that's based on an off-rules show is weird.

G. Moylan

@NautArch they've been so closely connected to WotC and D&D though that it makes sense in its own way

GcL

@NautArch I find limiting a singular avenue and allowing for creative work arounds can be more entertaining than removing agency and dictating an action.

G. Moylan

They were a thing long before Critical Role

Akixkisu

Yup they have done equally poor decisions before (for the player base).

David Coffron

2:52 PM

@NautArch That's how most of my tables handle manipulation effects like suggestion and command and the botherings of a particular BBEG (spoilers in that URL). The spell or effect does what it says it does, but the player decides how that character interprets the mind-altering magic

Carcer

@NautArch I'm so smart that I pointed out something in a comment which was already acknowledged in an earlier comment

G. Moylan

@Carcer it's that whole "two steps ahead" thing

@G.Moylan or was it behind?

Akixkisu

@DavidCoffron yup which is what we do as well, but Fast Friends comes too early, at too low a cost, and is too oppressive.

David Coffron

Idk. I personally love when those types of spells are used against the party. Improves my immersion and lets me stretch my roleplay legs (especially when I have to start "loving" the foe we've been battling for months)

NautArch

@G.Moylan I get it - but it generally seems like they're allowing more unvetted content in as 'official'.

GcL

2:55 PM

@G.Moylan I lost interest in anything penny arcade related after the whole dickwolves thing.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron command is pretty different from suggestion, at least in my opinion.

G. Moylan

@NautArch I don't think it's really "official" though. I think it's just a fun supplement that's meant to provide tools to run a a game in the AI style. I don't think this book is AL legal

Akixkisu

Without doing the required editing that is associated with that brand (Which could always be better, but oh well).

NautArch

@G.Moylan Maybe not AL legal, but it is on their site as a source (that isn't UA)

David Coffron

@Akixkisu Hm... Maybe you could instead introduce an "elf drought" which gives advantage on saves against charmed effects (to make it feel more realistic that this spell exists so early in this world)

G. Moylan

2:56 PM

@NautArch yeah it's a source, but a silly one. Some of the backgrounds are interesting, and maybe a couple of the spells, but I wouldn't allow the majority of it at my table

It's ultimately up to the DM what's "legal" anyway

NautArch

@GcL That i'm a fan of - but stating what your character must do via suggestion is where i draw the line. "Throw your weapon away"? Why, why would that be reasonable?

@G.Moylan I think as far as answering quetsions here though it's 'official'.

Because they haven't said it's UA.

Mark Wells

@NautArch Isn't the answer "you failed the save, so think of a reason"?

G. Moylan

@NautArch fair

NautArch

@MarkWells Not if it's unreasonable?

Akixkisu

@DavidCoffron there are certainly workarounds, but I think it would be more apt to either not use the new toy or rework it entirely so it finds into the playbox.

NautArch

2:58 PM

I think the suggestion needs to be backed up by something reasonable.

And that's where it's hard because there's a limit to the length.

Carcer

@MarkWells suggestion allows you to suggest a reasonable course of action and compel it, it doesn't make the target bend over backwards to justify whatever you told it

NautArch

I also think suggestion is more for out of combat, so when it's used in combat it's often stronger than it should be.

Carcer

Like "stab yourself in the face" is not a reasonable suggestion

Akixkisu

While fast friends is 1(!) action.

Carcer

"let go of your weapons" in a situation where you're currently fighting a bunch of enemies is not a reasonable course of action

"run away before you die!" probably is a reasonable course of action

Elemental Plane of Math

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