TRPG General Chat

8:00 PM

"Disadvantage on the next attack" would usually mean the first of their next attacks

Protection on Fighter: When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

Rubiksmoose

@JohnClifford This is probably stackable btw

John Clifford

He used it on Doru while the party was fighting him; I wasn't sure whether to apply disadvantage to just his first attack or both of them.

Rubiksmoose

might I suggest asking it on mainsite?

MikeQ

Check the mainsite first, it may have been asked before

John Clifford

8:01 PM

Will do.

Yuuki

INT does not represent your intelligence, it is a measure of your ability to spellcast and perform well on INT-related checks.

Mark Wells

@Yuuki What does it represent, then?

Yuuki

@MarkWells Your ability to succeed on INT-related checks and aptitude at Wizard-esque spellcasting.

JohnP

@MarkWells According to WotC, reasoning and memory. Wis = perception and insight.

John Clifford

I would think that if you're more adept at succeeding int-related checks, it's an indication that you're smarter.

JohnP

8:05 PM

4d6

Dice Service

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Yuuki

@JohnClifford Nah, it just means you're good at INT-related checks.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford the book says memory ...

Mark Wells

@Yuuki "INT-related checks" are a game mechanic, just like INT is. The mechanic doesn't represent other mechanics.

MikeQ

INT can be book smarts, WIS can be street smarts, CHA can be people smarts

KorvinStarmast

8:06 PM

Intelligence, measuring reasoning and memory

MikeQ

But strictly speaking, it's just a bonus that's added to certain rolls

KorvinStarmast

Intelligence
Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall,
and the ability to reason.
Intelligence Checks
An Intelligence check comes into play when you need
to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning.

Mark Wells

I know there are problems with declaring it to simply be "intelligence" but declaring that it represents nothing undermines the playability of the game.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford I cited the RAW there

@MarkWells Yeah, I tend to agree that there is more to it than mechanics. Not sure if Yuuki is being humorous or serious. Has a wry sense of humor. ;)

MikeQ

Also strictly speaking, creatures don't have a physical form or sentience. They're just a collection of numbers and game mechanics.

Rubiksmoose

8:09 PM

Just like people in real life are composed solely on their internet history and cookie data and their Google ad profile.

Mark Wells

@MikeQ What do we gain by taking that approach?

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ Yeah, and strictly speaking, we are a meta collection of neutrinos and sub atomic particles. But is that really helpful?

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast Quantum theory says yes.

And no.

MikeQ

Who said anything about being helpful

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose At least we get cookies. (I'll go and get a glass of milk)

Rubiksmoose

8:10 PM

@KorvinStarmast Perks! Suck it AIs.

MikeQ

> "The goblin's attack does 0 damage because the goblin does not exist"

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ John clifford was asking a question, so a few of us were being helpful, and a few making with the jokes, as I see it.

@MikeQ Schroedinger's goblin agrees

Until we unlock the door and see him with his scimitar

Yuuki

Well, there's a noted problem with people mapping the attributes to RL, particularly with the mental attributes.

MikeQ

Also also I'm trying to demonstrate how the literal approach to game mechanics can result in unproductive conclusions

Yuuki

So that's why I made the jokes I did.

KorvinStarmast

8:11 PM

@MikeQ For which Professor Starmast awards you with 5 stars out of five. :)

JohnP

@JohnClifford Do you roll separately for each attack? The language would seem to indicate a single attack (determined by roll).

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ but you only get the stars if you can find the cat

Yuuki

Side note, I suppose STR would be muscle smarts, DEX is quick smarts, and CON is stomach smarts.

John Clifford

@JohnP Yeah, they're separately-rolled attacks.

I ruled that he would impose disadvantage on both since it's not like he's lowering his shield and moving away from his ally when the enemy makes his second attack.

JohnP

@JohnClifford Most answers I've seen on main would focus on the word "the" in the description, indicating a single instance.

@JohnClifford Unless that first blow knocks the shield aside.

KorvinStarmast

8:13 PM

@JohnClifford I think your ruling makes sense

NautArch

@JohnP We've historically done 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest

Hot RPG Questions

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Q: Can I change my movement/action in the middle of the turn after an enemy's reaction?

Imagine I'm a rogue and I see an opponent 50' away. In my turn I want to use my movement and my Dash bonus action (Cunning Action) to approach it and use my Action to attack. Then, after moving just 10' (or more, I guess it may change the answer), another opponent had readied its action so as a r...

NautArch

@JohnP But our current campaign has gone old school with 3d6 straight down the line

KorvinStarmast

15 15 14 16 ... keep on rollling John, this is looking good!

John Clifford

Hmm. That would be an interesting thing. If the enemy's attack hits, it knocks the shield aside and any subsequent attacks are rolled as normal, but if it misses the other attacks have disadvantage too until a hit.

JohnP

8:14 PM

I mean, you could easily interpret it both ways, that's just the general interpretation I've seen on singular articles

John Clifford

Makes Protection more useful as well.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch do you trade points once done? That is pure old school.

4d6

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d6

8:15 PM

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13

15 15 14 16 13 woot!

That 6 saved me.

Hahaha stomach smarts

KorvinStarmast

grin I can see a monk in your future

JohnP

8:16 PM

@KorvinStarmast Oddly, I was looking at shadow monk. I don't think I've ever played a monk, which given my background, is strange.

MikeQ

@KorvinStarmast I don't always make jokes in chat. But when I do, they're awful and nobody laughs.

KorvinStarmast

Drop a good sized score in strength and Step of the WInd makes you a jumping amazing ......

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Trade points?

KorvinStarmast

Yes, in the original game you trade int 3"1 for str, etc.

Also in Basic

3:1.

Or 2:1

JohnP

4d6

Dice Service

8:16 PM

•

KorvinStarmast

Depends on the stat trade

JohnP

d6

Dice Service

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NautArch

@KorvinStarmast oh, nope. Just straight down the line stats.

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast - Do I get to reroll that again?

KorvinStarmast

8:17 PM

15 15 14 16 13 13 Awesine'

@NautArch That isn't actual old school, let me get you the text. BRB

John Clifford

What race and class?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast orly? I thought I remembered that original.

But that was a looooong time ago.

KorvinStarmast

Explanation of Abilities:
The first three categories are the prime requisites for each of the three classes,
Fighting-Men, Magic-Users, and Clerics. (See the Bonuses and Penalties to Advancement
due to Abilities table which appears hereafter.)
Strength is the prime requisite for fighters. Clerics can use strength on a 3 for 1
basis in their prime requisite area (wisdom), for purposes of gaining experience
only. Strength will also aid in opening traps and so on.
Intelligence is the prime requisite for magical types. Both fighters and Clerics can

From Men and Magic, page 10. The explanation in Basic was a heck of a lot easier to understand. I'll get that in a sec

If I picked a Fighter, and only had 11 strength, I could use up 3 points of wisdom to raise it to 12

And so on.

I even have an answer on this, I'll get you a linnk

@NautArch here it is

42

A: Why are Clerics and Druids Wisdom-based?

Wisdom: Prime Requisite versus Spell Casting Ability The thing that originally made Clerics different was the prime requisite being the Wisdom score. Druids, being a sub-class of Cleric, were along for the ride. TL;DR: originally, to differentiate the (hybrid) Cleric from the (pure)Magic User ...

@NautArch it's at the bottom of my ansswer

I"d recommend using the MOldvay explanation, since it is much clearer.

That system kept the Ability Score Adjustment from OD&D in a slightly different form. The book flat out told you to seek a class where you had a decent prime requisite.

Basic Rules, 1980, Moldvay, p. B6
(Wisdom) A character with a Wisdom score of 13 or better should consider the class of Cleric, since Wisdom is the prime requisite of that class. (My note: Similar advice was given for other prime requisites in that system, to include Dexterity for Thieves and halflings).

If you didn't roll well, you could still pursue a higher prime requisite.

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast - I want to use DMG 1st edition method III.

KorvinStarmast

@John P, let me check, memory foggy

JohnP

8:23 PM

3d6 6 times for each stat. Pick best one. All done in order.

KorvinStarmast

Method III:
Scores rolled are according to each ability category, in order, STRENGTH,
INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, DEXTERITY, CONSTITUTION, CHARISMA. 3d6 are
rolled 6 times for each ability, and the highest score in each category is retained
for that category.

Yeah

@JohnP I think the one I saw most commonly was Method II, even though method I was also common.

Method II: All scores are recorded and arranged as in Method I. 3d6 are rolled 12
times and the highest 6 scores are retained.

JohnP

Method IV was just insane. Roll up enough stats for 12 chars. Pick the best set.

KorvinStarmast

None of us ever did that except once, in a killer campaign, where my only ever percentile strength player was rolled up. Ranger with 18(98) str. 16 Con.

@JohnP That DM had me keep track a "morgue" notebook with all of the character cards/sheets for all of the dead PCs. We had nearly a score before the campaign wrapped up, and we who survived were levels 4 and 5

I may still have that notebook somewhere in a box.

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast All I have left are books. I had a lot of that stuff (Including my 1st BB certificate ever) in a single box, and the USAF lost it in a PCS move. It'll probably show up when I'm 73.

nitsua60

Best I can recall we did something like 10x{3d6} choose 6 in order, which must contain the single lowest-rolled value. I have no idea where my older brother got the idea, but it worked for us.

KorvinStarmast

8:32 PM

For my first ever Magic User, I had to trade some points to get the INt to 16. (I really wanted that extra xp bonus). Our campaign ended with MU at level 9. (I am still in touch with that DM, friends from high school)

@nitsua60 I do promise to add to tha tsummary in ToA chatizens ... but need to wait for later today

NautArch

So this 3d6 down the line is just masochistic, eh?

JohnP

@NautArch Not necessarily. Can make for some odd parties tho.

I do remember people begging things of their dice for stat rolls :-0

Mage in the Barrel

does darkvision work in complete darkness?

i tried looking it up but theres a ton of conflicting info on it

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch yes, it is pure masochism but can also be fun.

@MageintheBarrel yes

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel yes

NautArch

8:44 PM

@KorvinStarmast fun for me :) I rolled an 18 INT and a 16 CON :D Only one stat below 10.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Way to beat the odds! Woo Hoo, go for it.

JohnP

d6

Dice Service

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JohnP

Dang. It is just determined for me to have that 1 on the last roll :p

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast lied :) I had an 8 and a 9. 8 CHA, 9 STR

But the beefy wizard is beefy.

Our old DM rolled a 3 INT. Highest stat for him I think was 14?

JohnP

8:50 PM

@NautArch I cast magic missile into the darkness.

I'm trying to see how the latest PF question is not a dupe of the question he refers to...

NautArch

@JohnP haven't picked magic missile as a spell :) This is him.

Rubiksmoose

@JohnP And just as a bit of history, I deleted the answer they original posed the question in and suggested they ask it

But unfortunately I can't really help with sorting out if it is a dupe or not.

Er that link is 10k rep and above (to see the deleted answer)

JohnP

@NautArch Farflung. There was a Commissioner Wretched and Professor Farflung in Space Cadets (Heinlein).

But yes, that is a beefy wizard.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Mage Armor: the spell tax to be paid for a lower dex. :)

Illusion, evoke, diviniation?

NautArch

9:05 PM

@KorvinStarmast not even sure it's worth it. AC 10 versus 13. Both are likely to hit.

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel - Shadow Ninja

Hot RPG Questions

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Q: Should the party get XP for a monster they never attacked?

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JohnP

@HotRPGQuestions Yes, if the party contributed to the death of the monster in question in some fashion.

Xirema

@NautArch At level 1, the difference between AC10 and AC13 represents approximately a 22% improvement in survivability (here defined as "# of rounds until an opponent reduces you to 0 hit points) against the typical attack bonus of a level-appropriate monster. That 22% goes down as you level up and enemy creatures gain higher attack bonuses.

Someone_Evil

@Xirema I was waiting on this analysis. From you. :p

NautArch

9:18 PM

@Xirema yup, and my spell choices are limited early. I decided to focus on support and non-combat more and just try and stay smart in positioning to not get hit. And rely on my hp to keep me up.

Xirema

AC is one of those stats in D&D where it becomes progressively more valuable the more you have of it. Like, 15→16 is much more valuable than 10→11.

NautArch

Although my last campaign I had 20ac and it was useless. 3 out if the remaining 5 characters had higher ac and I had to change tactics to stay alive.

V2Blast

@NautArch that's impressive

NautArch

@V2Blast yeah, it was frustrating

Just has to kill first

Ben

9:35 PM

Has anyone else noticed that monsters in 5e appear to be doing lots of damage, but have very little HP?

NautArch

Absolutely

I almost always bump up their HP

Ben

I've recently found the opposite. Like, the Orc is a CR 1/2. At level 2, if he hits me, that's half my hp gone, in one hit. And I have the most hp in the party

V2Blast

@Ben if anything, it's the other way around, compared to PCs. enemies are high-HP, low-damage for the most part; comparatively, PCs are high-damage, low-HP

Xirema

@Ben Probably trying to avoid Damage Sponge status, which tend to make for boring, drawn-out fights.

V2Blast

generally speaking, at least

Ben

9:39 PM

And then they have enouh hp to survive one round, if they get hit by everyoneg

So at level 2, a CR 1/2 creature can effectively wipe out 1 PC, depending on the dice

:/

G. Moylan

I had a barbarian die to a wolf once because he couldn't roll to hit it

bad rolls happen. His buddy killed the wolf and helped him up, but yeah niether one could deal with a wolf. it was crazy but that's dice

Xirema

@NautArch Counterpoint: a few sessions ago, our DM had a party of level 9 characters fight a creature that had 400 hit points. It had a relatively low damage output, but the fight took SO LONG TO COMPLETE.

No Strategy, only Dice Spam.

G. Moylan

I sometimes find it hard to estimate how much HP we SHOULD be dealing with

I typically adjust on the fly to make things balance out, but rarely do I get it right when I design the encounter

NautArch

@Xirema yeah, it shouldn't be a war of attrition.

John Clifford

10:08 PM

Did someone mention to me earlier that a Paladin can detect undead passively? Or do they have to actively use Detect Evil and Good?

Someone_Evil

@JohnClifford Divine Sense, use 1+Chr mod per long rest

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