TRPG General Chat

1:01 PM

@JohnClifford back to your example, that is more of a case of "arbitrary lost forever" clause. In my case the point is that I was looking for something that had forever been there in the previous games, seemed to be there in the new one... and then the floor was pulled from under my shoes halfway thru the plot.

John Clifford

Fair.

Derpy

It is somehow similar to the issues I have with Chrono Cross (a game that every atom of my brain will forever see as a Cerberus Retcon of Chrono Trigger)

The Oracle

2

Q: What's our policy on editing "Thanks" from new questions?

I seem to remember seeing a meta or just other people commenting that there's no need to "sign" a question, such as if I, as a new user, had asked a new question saying: Hi RPG.SE, Something something something? Thanks in advance! NathanS The NathanS is redundant (and so is t...

Mage in the Barrel

1:21 PM

question in 5e if the caster of a spell that's not concentration dies or is knocked unconscious does the spells effect end

a buff for example

John Clifford

I believe if it doesn't require concentration, once the spell is cast its effect exists independently of the caster.

GcL

@MageintheBarrel Spell continues. If not, concentration, it's not tied to the caster unless the description of the spell states it is.

BESW

7

Q: Does the spell blink work after you get knocked unconscious?

We are fighting a shadow witch and our wizard casted blink at the start of the encounter. Would she still go to the ethereal plane even though she's unconscious? (not too brag but I'm personally destroying the witch while tanking a shadow demon) There's nothing stated in the spell description tha...

dnd-5e spells combat

12

Q: Does Wild Magic continue if I am unconscious/dead?

In an AL game recently, I was playing my Wild Magic Sorcerer (PHB p. 103-104) and our group was suddenly surrounded by cultists. In light of the bad situation, I threw caution to the wind and triggered my Wild Magic as often as possible. One of my early rolls was 01, which means I roll on the ta...

dnd-5e magic sorcerer character-death wild-magic

Rubiksmoose

Morning all

BESW

9

Q: Does Spiritual Weapon stay until the end of its duration if the caster goes uncounscious?

Spiritual Weapon does not require concentration and only has a duration of a minute. When my cleric was knocked unconscious the on-the-fly decision was to keep the weapon waiting around until the end of the spell and I was able to use it again after getting back on my feet. We were wondering howe...

spells dnd-5e summoning

G. Moylan

1:24 PM

@Rubiksmoose o/

John Clifford

Oh man, I'd planned to play Curse of Strahd somewhat straight with the party accompanying Ireena to Vallaki, but now that I've remembered she never accompanied them inside a building during their journey except the Burgomaster's mansion in Barovia, I'm going to make her Strahd in disguise instead.

G. Moylan

Question, possible spoiler about CoS: how do they explain Strahd being able to enter/exit his castle at will? Is it because he owns the castle?

Sdjz

@G.Moylan What do you mean? Why wouldn't he be able to enter/exit?

Yuuki

@Sdjz Probably the thing about vampires not being to enter dwellings without permission.

John Clifford

He is a resident of the castle, so the invitation restriction wouldn't apply to him.

Mage in the Barrel

1:27 PM

are there any typical conditions that woulf make a fire and forget spell break by the cast being ko'd

Sdjz

@Yuuki Oh! That makes sense

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel A water and remember spell?

BESW

"The vampire can't enter a residence without an invitation from one of the occupants." dndbeyond.com/monsters/vampire

Mage in the Barrel

like what kinds of spells would break

John Clifford

@MageintheBarrel Only if the spell description specifies that its effect ends if the caster is incapacitated.

Mage in the Barrel

1:28 PM

i got that much

but are there any common paterns between such spells

Yuuki

@BESW I do wonder if Strahd just has a mental conversation with himself every time he comes home.

John Clifford

Not that I'm aware of.

G. Moylan

ah that makes sense thanks all.

John Clifford

"Hi Strahd, can I come in?" "Of course, Strahd!" "Thanks, Strahd."

Yuuki

> Strahd: "Hey, can I come in?"
> Also Strahd: "Yeah, sure I can."
> <walks through the threshold>

Mage in the Barrel

1:29 PM

that's an interest question

G. Moylan

@Sdjz Vampires can't enter dwellings without invitation, which is why @JohnClifford is musing about disguising Ireena as Strahd, since she's never gone inside except when invited

BESW

@Yuuki Now I'm imagining Strahd pulling a V-on-the-rooftop-with-Madame-Justice every time he goes into the castle.

John Clifford

Hmm. Okay, so if Ireena is really Strahd in disguise...I just did a thing where the party saw Strahd inside the black carriage after he saved them from a bandit attack. Would it be feasible to say the Strahd they saw was a spawn disguised as him?

(Ireena is with them at this point)

Mage in the Barrel

like if the vampire owns the house can he get in without being invited

G. Moylan

Strahd is magic and you're in Barovia, make up the spookiest explanation

@MageintheBarrel yes

@G.Moylan if he's a resident

Sdjz

1:31 PM

@JohnClifford Could just be an illusion

Yuuki

@G.Moylan The real Ireena was the workplace anxiety we endured all along.

BESW

@JohnClifford Clearly, it's a time-travel alternate universe clone Strahd.

John Clifford

Yeah, I'm still kind of getting used to the whole thing of "basically anything is possible because Barovia is a crazy consciousness-labyrinth and Strahd just does whatever the hell entertains him".

DucksGoMooful

Does strahd's statblock even have the Forbiddance weakness?

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel I'm thinking of an interesting NPC landlord who is a vampire

John Clifford

1:31 PM

It does, yes.

Vampire Weaknesses. Strahd has the following flaws:
Forbiddance. He can't enter a residence without an invitation
from one of the occupants.
Harmed by Running Water. He takes 20 acid damage if he
ends his turn in running water.
Stake to the Heart. If a piercing weapon made of wood is
driven into his heart while he is incapacitated in his coffin, he is
paralyzed until the stake is removed.
Sunlight Hypersensitivity. While in sunlight, Strahd takes
20 radiant damage at the start of his turn, and he has

Derpy

Next, on SE HNQ list: "Does a fireball in the face count as 'invitation' for the purpose of a vampire ability to enter a residence?"

Mage in the Barrel

"Forbiddance. He can't enter a residence without an invitation
from one of the occupants."

John Clifford

Now when it says "occupants" does that have to be someone who regularly resides there? Or could Strahd just have a loyal Vistani go inside a building and invite him in?

Mage in the Barrel

does he not own a house?

G. Moylan

@Derpy "come at me bro"

Yuuki

1:33 PM

@Derpy I feel like Fireball would be whatever the complete opposite of an invitation would be.

Mage in the Barrel

it would be kinda pointless to have 1 if he can't get in

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel he owns a castle that he can enter freely. I asked a clarifying question about that just a little further up

Yuuki

Granted, this is a pretty anthropocentric viewpoint.

Derpy

@Yuuki but what if the fireball knock-back pushes the vampire thru the door :P?

John Clifford

It would actually be kind of funny if Strahd just has to hang out at the door until Rahadin comes down to invite him in.

Yuuki

1:35 PM

@JohnClifford The real reason why vampires are almost always rich nobles, so they can hire doormen to let them into their own homes.

John Clifford

Haha

Yuuki

It's classic survivorship bias. The poor vampires can't go home so they die out.

G. Moylan

@JohnClifford According to Wikipedia: Some traditions also hold that a vampire cannot enter a house unless invited by the owner; after the first invitation they can come and go as they please

Yuuki

All you have left are the rich ones.

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan so owner, it would seem. That would make sense

John Clifford

1:36 PM

@G.Moylan I think the Forbiddance rules requires a new invitation each time the vampire leaves the residence.

Derpy

ok, better version:
"Does knocking a vampire thru the door of my house with count as inviting him?"

John Clifford

Forcing them to enter would probably work because then it's not the vampire trying to enter.

Yuuki

@Derpy Welcome to the house of pain?

G. Moylan

@JohnClifford sure, but I think the intent of the "occupant" wording, given the context, is a "resident or owner"

DucksGoMooful

Just destroy the door frame, then it's no longer a residence and he can just walk right in

John Clifford

1:37 PM

Yeah. I think it could work if the person inviting were a genuine guest of the occupant as well.

BESW

And of course, "real" traditions about vampires are pretty much potluck. For one thing, the difference between vampire, revenant, werewolf, etc, was very fuzzy until literature started codifying it. (A lot of Dracula's qualities are more werewolfy, folklorewise.)

G. Moylan

@JohnClifford possibly, yeah.

I'm imagining Strahd just nightmare-mindbending the door out of the way and he just walks into the now-open house

BESW

And Strahd's not a traditional vampire anyway; vampires didn't take damage from running water and sunlight until the 20th century.

Yuuki

@DucksGoMooful This is D&D, not Minecraft.

John Clifford

Okay, so now that a few more CoS savvy people are here...

Anyone have any suggestions for a way I can convince the party to eat dream pastries when they already know Morgantha steals kids?

goodguy5

1:38 PM

@Yuuki I actually played in a minecraft inspired D&D game a few years ago.

BESW

Can we please move that conversation to the Not A Bar? It's not a subject people should get ambushed with just because they want to check out the main chat.

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.

No problem.

which?

the Strahd chatter

Strahd seems very RPG-related. O_ò

G. Moylan

1:40 PM

yeah but it's spoiler-ful

John Clifford

i think BESW means the dream pastry thing because of the nature of them.

BESW

Yeah, what Clifford said. I don't care about spoilers.

G. Moylan

ah

vicky_molokh

Speaking of spoilers, not having played Final Fantasy, I don't know what was the historically remarkable twist plot was. What is being referred to, and was it well received or badly by the people?

John Clifford

I believe the twist being referenced was Aeris being killed by Sephiroth.

Yuuki

1:42 PM

@vicky_molokh Aerith dies. And it was definitely... received.

John Clifford

Reaction was very much mixed.

Derpy

@vicky_molokh I assume you are talking about my issue with Final Fantasy 7 that I mentioned before?

Yuuki

For further illumination, one of the most popular mods made for FF7 was one that overwrote one of your other party members with Aerith.

vicky_molokh

@Derpy Yeah. It seemed to be a case of making a comparison to clarify a point in discussion, but I am not familiar with the thing you're comparing to.

Yuuki

Which is a bit horrifying in and of itself.

DucksGoMooful

1:45 PM

xkcd.com/299 :)

Yuuki

@DucksGoMooful Get away from me with that Randall Munroe mask.

Derpy

@Yuuki don't get me started on Aerith please. That is a whole different story. I don't like how the thing was made, I am firmly rooted in my idea that the thing was added as an easy out of a situation they putted themselves into (nor to mention the horrid recent interview "I wanted to make the player experience what I had with the recent disappearance of a relative of mine" from one of the designers)

Anyway, if you don't mind I would leave her death (partially) out of the picture for now.

You will hopefully see why in a moment.

@vicky_molokh Let me expand on that. I said before:

1 hour ago, by Derpy

Maybe I should try to clarify. I basically play Jrpg for the F.E.V. effect - basically it means that what I enjoy the most is the shōnen nature of those games. FF7 didn't even really match that style from the start, but the reveals almost negates that.

F.E.V. is an acronym, one that thinking about it probably won't be familiar to many of the users in this rooms

Yuuki

2:01 PM

Forced Evolutionary Virus?

Derpy

It is something Shōnen Jump (a popular Japanese anime magazine) made up to define the elements of shōnen mangas

G. Moylan

Fixed-Energy Vacuum?

John Clifford

Fluffy Evil Voles?

Derpy

Friendship
Effort
Victory

Sadly, up to and included FF6 that was what I got from Final Fantasy games

G. Moylan

sadly you got that or sadly 6 ended that?

Derpy

2:03 PM

and I embarked FF7 expecting the same

Yuuki

10 kinda has that.

goodguy5

@Derpy have you played Octopath Traveler?

Derpy

@goodguy5 yep. I think I may know why you are asking that

Back on FF7, my problem with the game was just my expectation.

I wanted a story that was about the same concepts I was used before. And FF7 twisted that in the most annoying way possible for me

goodguy5

Did you only play ff6 or games up to ff6?

I can see the problem from 6->7 in a vacuum.

But as a new game compared to the others in the series, I don't understand.

Derpy

3, 4, 5, 6

Technically, I also saw FF1 and FF2 but only afterwards

Mage in the Barrel

2:10 PM

are there any mechs involving a persons age in dnd?

5e

JohnP

@vicky_molokh - For your WtO map question - I assume you have seen this map released earlier this year?

John Clifford

There were several games in the series prior to 7 where an important party member dies.

goodguy5

Peculiar.

Sdjz

@MageintheBarrel not really:

18

Q: What are the effects of aging?

I am new to D&D. I did not find any official ruling concerning the effects of aging in the PHB. I know that in some systems aging can have adverse and/or beneficial effects on stats. I ask because I am currently playing Monk and at 15th he will receive Timeless Body which prevents "the frailty ...

dnd-5e aging

Derpy

@JohnClifford emh... as I said, that wasn't the problem.

John Clifford

2:11 PM

Oh, sorry. I missed that part of the discussion.

Mage in the Barrel

so then would a person with an age listed as unknown affect the game at all

JohnP

@vicky_molokh It's also part of the 20th anniversary edition rulebook

vicky_molokh

@JohnP No I haven't, as my interest in WtO is inconsistent. (It's generally a setting that I'm at times curious about but never dived deeply into.) Thanks!

JohnP

@vicky_molokh No problem. If that is enough reference, I can post it as an answer and we can get it off the "unanswered" board.

Derpy

@JohnClifford As I said I was expecting a pretty classical story about a group of friends that manages to save the world against all odds. FF7 is still that, but in an odd way.

John Clifford

2:14 PM

I can see that.

Derpy

It does indeed revolve around Aerith, but not in the way you seem to think

John Clifford

Though FF6 certainly wasn't that... XD

Yuuki

@Derpy The real Effort/Victory was the people who died and went into the Lifestream along the way?

vicky_molokh

@JohnP Oh wait, that's just Stygia (the polity), if I understand the preview correctly?

JohnP

Every time I get an email of "helpful tips" from WebMD, they prove the infinite monkey theorem.

@vicky_molokh Yeah, that's why I didn't post it as an answer. I wasn't sure if that completely addressed it or not. It's about the only map I've found from WtO, and I look off and on every month or so on some of these.

John Clifford

2:17 PM

If a vampire like knocks on someone's door and then charms them into inviting him in, does that still count as an invitation for the purposes of Forbiddance?

vicky_molokh

@JohnP Maybe I should more conversationally explain the context in which I asked the question.

Sdjz

@JohnClifford It seems to be implied that Strahd does this in CoS so probably yes

John Clifford

Okay, cool. That should work with my plan then.

JohnP

@Sdjz But doesn't Strahd already own everything, thus obviating the need for permission?

Derpy

From the start, the game creates a sort of interest triangle between Cloud, Tifa the childhood friend (a totally not-for-fanservice character that kindly demonstrates that girls can only fight each others in slapping battles) and Aerith the "I was passing here just for chance and meet you"

John Clifford

2:19 PM

Basically the party took Ismark and met Ireena at the mansion, then left her there while they took the Burgomaster's corpse to bury at the church. While they're there, Strahd goes to the mansion, charms Ireena into letting him in, then hides her somewhere and disguises himself as her so that he can accompany the party and learn more about their strengths and weaknesses.

JohnP

@vicky_molokh Possibly. I've been looking for straight up maps, and that's the only one I've found.

Sdjz

@JohnP No, he clearly needs invitations still

vicky_molokh

Of my fragmented exposure to WtO, at times I run into things which look like cool concepts. But each time I try to attain more systemised knowledge, I hit either White Walls Of Text Wolves (or worse, black walls of white text, what with WtO's style), or wiki pages that seem more like fractured notes which, when I read them, make me feel like I'm missing something basic and unifying/ordering them.

Sdjz

@JohnP This is mentioned somewhere, let me see if I can find it

vicky_molokh

The cosmological geography is one of those things I see as cool-but-how-do-I-even approach-it?

John Clifford

2:20 PM

Strahd doesn't so much own everything in Barovia, he just maintains a level of control over most of it because it's tied to his consciousness. He's still bound by vampire weaknesses, and he's still a prisoner there.

Derpy

It is even a square if you consider Yuffie (How nice: every single female character in the party can get interested in Cloud if you like!! Totally casual and never intended, I assume.)

JohnP

@Sdjz The original Ravenloft modules, he couldn't, except for two buildings.

Sir Cinnamon

I recall the book makes mention of Strahd's restrictions because of his curse

John Clifford

@Derpy I mean if we're going down that route you can also go on a date with Barret. ;)

Derpy

@JohnClifford Who, Mr T?

John Clifford

2:21 PM

Yeah.

JohnP

@Sdjz - > Furthermore, the original Ravenloft Module had this rule added in:

    Strahd can enter any building without an invitation. There are two exceptions: the Burgomaster’s home and the temple.

-From 25th Anniversary Edition of Ravenloft, page 4

vicky_molokh

@JohnP The maelstroms, the great afterlife-ocean, the islands, the paths between them, the recently-dead and the deep-dead worlds etc. - cool, but it's hard to understand how they're even positioned cosmologically, how one travels between them etc.

Derpy

@JohnClifford I know, but that is played for joke, the others not quite.

John Clifford

True.

Sdjz

@JohnP Found it, it's in the "When Strahd Attacks" section: "If they're indoors, he tries to charm or goad a character into inviting him in". So this implies he needs such an invitation

John Clifford

2:23 PM

I do love that in our first session the dragonborn fighter was trying to move silently through town to avoid attracting attention and the high elf cleric was following behind him loudly whistling the Pink Panther theme.

JohnP

@Sdjz Reading another thread, that appears to be a difference from the original Ravenloft and the new. Like many things, nothing stays the same :)

Derpy

anyway, the point is that you get to live a character that is basically Zack persona. You get a story, you get a personality, you get someone who initially is cold and seems to have some kind of empathy issues that slowly change......

vicky_molokh

Having re-read my question, I think it's just a different phrasing of what I typed above, so maybe my posts aren't really useful in clarifying what I'm having trouble with.

Derpy

Then... ops... know what, Mr Player? We lied. Your character isn't like that.

Your friendship? Fake

Your background? Fake.

Oh, so you liked Aerith since the game is basically rigged that way?

Sorry, that was Zack personality.

G. Moylan

what is the policy on editing old posts? I found one that is worded poorly/has a bunch of irrelevant asides in it but it's 3 years old and has an aswer

JohnP

2:26 PM

@vicky_molokh IIRC, it seemed like travel routes were designed by Escher, but I haven't played any WoD stuff in a long time.

John Clifford

Could you argue that Cecil from FF4 was kind of along the same lines? I mean he essentially finds out his entire life has been a lie.

Derpy

@JohnClifford that is still different from Cloud.

John Clifford

Right enough.

Derpy

in Cecil case, he was basically tricked and actually his "change" is indeed from a Dark Knight to a Paladine

Rubiksmoose

@G.Moylan No post is too old too improve. We consider posts to be evergreen and thus, if you see serious improvements that can be made to a post, you are encouraged to make them.

Sdjz

2:28 PM

@G.Moylan Should probably fine, just be careful not to overdo it:

13

Q: What are the guidelines for editing many questions in a short period of time?

I'm all for cleaning up questions, making them more readable, and even providing citations to rules references - but I think we need to have a better policy for how to handle editing many, and generally older, questions subsequently. How many old questions should be edited in a short time frame?

discussion editing

Derpy

(please, skip over the fact that the scene was kinda damaged during localization by removing the "Dark Sword" attack from you when you were a Dark Knight)

vicky_molokh

@JohnP I played through the whole Antichamber and whole Bridge, I can handle some Escher so long as I get a clear impression of how the topography is related, but I couldn't get such clarity from the bits of info I encountered on WtO.

Derpy

In Cloud case there is no battle, you are just given the sudden explanation that his memories were fake ones and then you have a kinda of puzzle to fix them.

Rubiksmoose

@G.Moylan Be very careful that you don't end up changing the meaning of the old post (as with any edit) and that you don't flood the front page with a bunch of edits for old questions at once. You should also make sure that you are making significant improvements to it. Otherwise, have at it.

2

JohnP

@vicky_molokh I don't think you will. Again, it's been a long time, but what I remember is that if you went west to reach a destination, east would not necessarily take you back to your start position. The routing was...fluid at best.

John Clifford

2:31 PM

I dunno, I think it was kind of cool with the whole unreliable narrator thing where there are some very subtle hints that Cloud's ambitions didn't turn out as planned, the fact that he was held captive along with Zack, Zack's personality being very much like Cloud's, and the fact that Cloud actually was in the scenes shown in Kalm, he just wasn't the same person.

vicky_molokh

@JohnP That reads exactly like the Antichamber experience.

G. Moylan

@Rubiksmoose @Sdjz thank you both

Rubiksmoose

No problem :)

vicky_molokh

One-way links are okay, though it's always interesting how they are experienced in that setting.

Derpy

So, let's sum up...
Cloud, your character, never was the one you played so far. Your relationship with other character, ESPECIALLY AERITH - the one they remove from you for sake of "simplicity" (seemed the easy way to solve the triangle and never have Cloud face the issues afterward) - they were fake. It is especially infuriating since:
a) Cloud never bother to go visiting Zack parents after the reveal. You would expect him to tell the truth about their son. HE DOES NOTHING.

John Clifford

2:35 PM

Are Zack's parents even still alive? Are they ever mentioned?

Yuuki

@Derpy Wasn't Zack an orphan?

John Clifford

(I honestly can't remember, it's been a while since I last played 7)

Derpy

THEY ARE

They are alive, well and you can ever talk to them

John Clifford

Oh yeah, they're in Gongaga aren't they?

I wonder if they'll expand on that in the remake.

Derpy

They ask you about that "soldier that looks like you" and ask you to let them know if you find out about him.

They could have at least had the decency of a mission in cd 3 to build a proper grave for the guy.

JohnP

2:38 PM

@vicky_molokh What we had was a wall chart, with different colored strings going to the various areas, and whether those routes were bidirectional or not. By the end it was rather...bizarre looking.

Derpy

It is not like there weren't fitting prizes that could be given for that....

John Clifford

Yeah, now that I remember the stuff in Gongaga you're right. I hope they do something with that.

Derpy

consider they put OmniSlash as a prize in a amusement park.... Thansk, Square, that was exactly the friendship I hoped for.

Yuuki

@Derpy Final Fantasy 7: Friendship Is Gambling.

John Clifford

I must be a total glutton for punishment because even though I know Aerith dies, when I replay FF7 I still get her level 4 limit break before I leave Midgar generally.

Derpy

2:39 PM

I am so glad I can battle in arena instead of trying to make up to the guy who saved my life.

vicky_molokh

@JohnP Yeah, that's how I'd imagine a guide-scheme for it.

goodguy5

@Derpy I prefer Sandslash. I never wanted to collect the omnistones to evolve it to Omnislash

John Clifford

Ha, I see what you did there.

I'm more a fan of Aegislash myself.

Derpy

@goodguy5 I hate you. (for added effect, try to image this being spoken in Duffy Duck voice)

goodguy5

♥

JohnP

2:40 PM

@vicky_molokh I can put that as an answer, but not sure.

@Derpy My first Square Enix experience was Star Ocean. I found it tedious, convoluted and kinda strange.

Kingdom hearts was a little better.

Derpy

next...

Yuuki

@JohnP wait what

I assume you mean it was better at being tedious, convoluted, and kinda strange?

Derpy

b) Aerith was Zack's girlfriend, so basically the game pushed you into liking her because ZACK DID. Again, since in the game Cloud seems pretty "fine" with Aerith death (at least, it isn't the totally broken still blaming himself person he is in Advent Children for example) the outcome made me feel like "oh, well, lucky me I never liked her and just pretended to because I was Zack.... Back to Tifa now"

JohnP

@Yuuki Sorta. I remember being able to at least be less confused, but I haven't played a SE game since.

vicky_molokh

@JohnP If you mean 'just use pins and threads', then I don't think by itself it'd be helpful. It's more the understanding what basic assumptions of those relationships and 'positioning' I am missing, as well as whether some things are meant to be literal (e.g. is the Tempest like an ocean complete with swimmable and sinkable underwater locations, or is it metaphorical? Because I've seen different fans say one or the other).

goodguy5

2:43 PM

Anyone remember Vagrant Story?

Derpy

Yep, again, totally what I wanted, thanks for that... Having a character removed and then discovering my "main character" liked her just because false memories. So Nice!

Yuuki

@JohnP If you only played the first one, I suppose.

John Clifford

VAGRANT STORY

Man, I loved that game.

The battle system in the RPG I'm developing is based on that.

vicky_molokh

Maybe I shouldn't've posted that question at all and it's not plausibly answerable.

I'm not sure.

MikeQ

@Yuuki Any sentence about KH has O(n!) complexity, where n is the number of proper nouns

Derpy

2:45 PM

3) Friendship galore! I mean, I didn't expected Barret or Cid to go Twilight Sparkle and give SephiAsleep the power of three alicorns just to save 5 ponies and one weird dracoquine... but guys are they fast in leaving you in an hospital with Tifa...

JohnP

@vicky_molokh It was never really described, it was all left up to the narrator.

John Clifford

Kingdom Hearts has probably the most complex and convoluted plot I've ever encountered in a game.

I still love it though.

Derpy

@JohnClifford Legacy of Kain / Blood Omen

John Clifford

Okay, fair point, but I still think KH is crazier.

vicky_molokh

@JohnP Well, a 'negative answer' can be a sad but accurate/appropriate/correct one.

John Clifford

2:47 PM

Especially in terms of crazy time travel shenanigans.

Derpy

@JohnClifford they both have their fair share of craziness. LoK is more time travel related

Sdjz

Since we are getting into KH conversation can I ask for no KH3 spoilers please? (It's fairly recent and I haven't had a chance to play it yet)

John Clifford

Ixnay on KH3 spoilers, gotcha.

I must admit the combat in 3 took me a while to get comfortable with.

JohnP

@vicky_molokh I'll work on something.

Derpy

@Sdjz Spoiler: the game has an ending.

John Clifford

2:48 PM

Does it though? ;)

Derpy

Spoiler 2: You fight heartless.

JohnP

@JohnClifford I picked it up along with Fable a few years after each were released. I lost interest in KH because Fable was at least a little more linear.

John Clifford

I'm kind of the opposite. I could never get into Fable but got addicted as hell to KH.

Sdjz

@Derpy Spoiler 3: Is Sora ever mentioned?

Derpy

@Sdjz :P

John Clifford

2:49 PM

SORA KILLS DUMBLEDORE

MikeQ

@Sdjz Yes there are 200 lines of dialogue that are just someone shouting "Sora!"

John Clifford

I tried to come up with a KH drinking game where you take a drink whenever someone says "darkness" but you'd be in a coma before the end of KH1's opening cutscene.

MikeQ

@JohnClifford Kingdom Hearts: Friendship is Technobabble

JohnP

@JohnClifford I haven't played either in years, Fable II was tedious and I never played III. I started getting more into games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Darksiders (Which I am glad they finally got picked up again).

John Clifford

I still need to finish Dragon Age: Origin.

I have so many games I've never played or finished.

Yuuki

2:51 PM

@JohnClifford And also soul shenanigans.

JohnP

@JohnClifford HGTV drinking game - Drink every time they say shiplap, a shot for every time something "pops", and shotgun a beer every time the Property Brothers go over budget.

@JohnClifford I just finished my third playthrough of the entire series.

John Clifford

I'm in KH2 in my third playthrough.

on*

Yuuki

@JohnClifford It doesn't help that up until a year ago or so, the whole thing was spread out across four or five different platforms.

John Clifford

I got the full collection for PS4 when I bought 3. Got every game in the series for like 80 quid. (though that doesn't include 358/2 Days obviously)

goodguy5

@JohnClifford didn't like it

Yuuki

2:53 PM

There was even a lore-important mobile spinoff.

John Clifford

Coded wasn't even that bad. Union X is the one that really topped the craz-o-meter.

Derpy

@JohnClifford refresh my memories... Are all the games in that collection the actual games or something are in "cutscene only" format like they did in the original ps3 bundles?

John Clifford

It's a combination of 1.5 Remix, 2.5 Remix and 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue. You get 1, RE: CoM, 2, Birth By Sleep, the cutscenes from 358/2 Days, the summary of Coded, A Fragmentary Passage, RE: Dream Drop Distance and the story stuff about the Foretellers from Union.

Yuuki

@Derpy It's gotta be cutscenes only, I can't imagine they'd rebuild all of those spinoffs from other platforms.

John Clifford

AFAIK the only ones they've redone for console are Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance.

Derpy

2:57 PM

as I expected, kinda felling stupid for asking

John Clifford

I really hope they redo 358/2 Days, honestly. I've lost my DS cart for it. XD

I guess if I get really desperate I can emulate it.

Derpy

Anyway, I hope now it is a little more clear why I didn't exactly like the whole Zack/Cloud FF7 plot twist. It is a sum of two things: first, I didn't expected nor wanted that kind of experience from a Final Fantasy game, as I said I walked in searching for a different experience more in line with FF6, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana etc...
Second, the reveal kinda turns out Cloud into a pretty awful person under some aspects of the game (still imho)

Yuuki

@Derpy The true reveal was that the horrible person was inside of us all along.

It's such clever commentary about how gamers invest so much of their self-worth into these virtual characters when in reality, they're horrible people. /s

MikeQ

If you like JRPGs with deep plots, have you tried Barkley, Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden

Yuuki

As far as deep plots go, I prefer Minecraft. I once set up farmland one level above bedrock.

2

cc @Ash

Derpy

3:09 PM

@Yuuki maybe it is, maybe it is not (Tifa adherence to Gainax teachings seems to point to the second one). Point is that I didn't buy the game for that kind of experience. It was like standing in line for getting on Disneyland Jungle Cruise and then discover that the line was actually for the Haunted House

Rubiksmoose

Quick informal poll: would people consider this question to be tagged more appropriately under homebrew or homebrew-review?

Yuuki

Proposal: Rename homebrew-review to homebreview.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki hahaha status-declined ;)

John Clifford

By definition of the tags I'd say homebrew-review.

MikeQ

@Rubiksmoose Correct me if I'm wrong... homebrew-review is for homebrew proposals or asking about the consequences of adding homebrew content, whereas homebrew is for questions where the homebrew content is already a factor.

goodguy5

3:15 PM

ugh. imo, don't need two tags

Sdjz

@goodguy5 This came from a meta discussion. Perhaps you could elaborate?

20

Q: Do we want a [homebrew-review] tag separate from the [homebrew] tag?

The vast majority of the homebrew questions we get are asking us to review their homebrew, either directly ("Is this balanced?") or indirectly ("What LA should this race have?" or "How much should this magic item cost?"). However, we also get a nontrivial number of questions about homebrew that ...

discussion tags homebrew

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ Honestly, at this point, I'm a bit unsure. It seems to me that a discussion about how each of the tags are defined might need to happen before the tags can be split (renamed). I tried to sort through them (all ~600 of them) and there are a lot of grey area questions by my understanding (or lack thereof) of the tags.

I'm kind of trying to figure out if it is needed and how would be the best way to go about it.

(Obviously a Meta of some sort, but finding a feasible way to tackle the issue will warrant a thoughtful approach I think)

goodguy5

I will answer on that meta, then.

doesn't deserve it's own content to me, but w/e

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Or we can just retire homebrew questions the way we did Sys Rec questions. (And while I'd rather not, mxy has a point in his meta answer about 'making special rules' being a sign that we need to look real hard at the calss of question's fit).

goodguy5

calss

Rubiksmoose

3:30 PM

@KorvinStarmast That option is certainly on the table if the community gets to the point where they want it. Response to the splitting Meta was pretty clear though and it seems the community largely see splitting the tag as valuable. So, at this point we (diamond mods) are working on a viable approach to making that happen.

user15026

@Yuuki siiiiiiiiigh

Mage in the Barrel

would a passive that made you resistant to demonic energy be op in 5e?

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel "demonic energy" isn't really a defined 5E term, so what do you mean by that?

DucksGoMooful

@MageintheBarrel "demonic energy" meaning what?

Mage in the Barrel

demonic influence i guess

when demons try to influence you or posses you?

isn't that a thing?

G. Moylan

3:44 PM

somewhat. There are certain creatures with possession-like abilities. You might be thinking of Madness

Mage in the Barrel

maybe

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel I mean it kind of is? But that term as you put it now could encompass a lot of very different mechanics.

G. Moylan

certain demons, namely the Princes, can force PCs to make rolls on the madness tables for negative side-effects

Rubiksmoose

Can you give an example?

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan and some demon princes have their own [additional] tables to roll on for madness effects as well, although those special tables might be confined to lairs

Mage in the Barrel

3:46 PM

like what G said trying to force pcs to go crazy

G. Moylan

it's Madness. the DMG covers the basic madness tables

Mordenkainens has the Demon Princes special madness tables

I'm running OOtA and I deal with madness a lot

Mage in the Barrel

would immunity to madeness be op in 5e

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel What would it be granted by?

MikeQ

Depends on how prevalent the madness-inducing threats are

Mage in the Barrel

being exposed to it for centuries

G. Moylan

3:47 PM

the effects are mixed between RP quirks and actually bad side-effects like losing consciousness or attacking your friends

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel No, I mean, is this a class feature? racial feature? spell? item?

Mage in the Barrel

basically part of my characters backstory

Yuuki

I am trying terribly hard not to quote Muse here.

G. Moylan

You DO make a Wis save before succumbing to madness

at any level

Mage in the Barrel

she spent 100s of years trapped in a place know as the the black forest

DucksGoMooful

3:48 PM

could be a custom Background feature?

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel It would be either completely useless or very powerful.

Mage in the Barrel

basically it's a breeding ground for fiends

Rubiksmoose

The vast majority of 5e things I've played never even referenced madness.

G. Moylan

like I said the madness effects range in potency

@Rubiksmoose it's a variant rule in the back of the DMG, near Honor and Renown

Rubiksmoose

But if you are playing OotA for example, it would be OP and out of line with other backstory powers.

G. Moylan

3:50 PM

@Rubiksmoose ^ Madness is an integral part of that story

Mage in the Barrel

5e

Rubiksmoose

@G.Moylan Oh yeah I know what it is (I played through OotA as a player so we dealt with it a lot)

G. Moylan

Out of the Abyss, or OotA, is a 5E module dealing with demons, demons princes, and the insanity of the underdark

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel Sorry OotA = Out of the Abyss which is a 5e adventure

Mage in the Barrel

oh

were doing a homebrew world where we make it up as we go along

G. Moylan

3:51 PM

it's pretty niche

the only demons that really force you to do it are the princes

Rubiksmoose

But even for a niche thing, immunity is very powerful when it comes up.

G. Moylan

indeed

MikeQ

If the game is homebrew, then only the DM would know how often to expect madness-incuding threats. If the game has a lot of madness, then madness immunity would be powerful.

Mage in the Barrel

gues i'll ask him

Rubiksmoose

That would mean you could stand in front of a Demon Lord and not even have to roll for madness. Which to me, seems like way too much for a backstory feature

Mage in the Barrel

3:53 PM

true not nessarily a demon lord since they're way stronger

G. Moylan

the Concept of Madness and the demon princes in general forcing you to make those saves is very lovecraftian - the very concept that something like them could exist is supposed to be so foreign to a character that even trying to comprehend what they're looking at would drive them insane

Mage in the Barrel

my characters already pretty darn crazy

MikeQ

Sure, they're adventurers. They're crazy by default.

Mage in the Barrel

good at hiding it but total nutcase

Rubiksmoose

My advice: change it to advantage on madness rolls and only if the adventure will include some. Otherwise, choose something that might be more applicable.

G. Moylan

3:54 PM

@MageintheBarrel for flavor you could even roll on the madness table(s) and take that as a character quirk

Rubiksmoose

(the idea being that if you are already creating a custom background, it might as well be useful to you. Though if you are ok with that not being the case, then you can just take it either way.)

G. Moylan

ah the old "favored terrain" problem

although I suppose backstories at least don't cost you class features

Mage in the Barrel

when she was born she and her twin sister were presumed to be cursed and tossed into the black forest, it's a forest that's always nighttime and filled with unspeakable horrors

Derpy

@MageintheBarrel now that you remind me.....

Mage in the Barrel

needless to say she went very crazy during her time here

Derpy

3:57 PM

@Rubiksmoose So? Have you finished Over the Garden Wall?

Rubiksmoose

Sure, and this is more my personal preference. If I'm going to work with my DM to create unique background mechanics for my character, I'd kind of want/expect them to come up at least once. But that would be something I explicitly talked to them about.

@Derpy oh man, I haven't yet! I only got that first ep and then got busy with moving stuff T_T I'm bumping it back up the list though.

Mage in the Barrel

my dm doesn't get out of work till the evening so I thought i'd ask for your opinions before I bothered him

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

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