TRPG General Chat - 2019-06-14 (page 4 of 4)

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Mage in the Barrel

7:00 PM

The explaination for it being unable to be used excessively is it consumes large amounts of spiritual power placing large strain on the user

How much damage 1d6

@MageintheBarrel Is it the race's only feature?

@DavidCoffron Sure. That's basically the justification behind other per-use limitations, like spell slots or refreshable class features.

If it's just that, plus a minor other feature, you are comparable to Dragonborn's Breath Weapon

If that's their core racial trait, then the damage would be somewhere around 2d6 (a bit more damage per day than the Breath Weapon would be if it only hit one target, but it can hit multiple)

Yeah, with homebrew, balancing your numbers is usually one of the last steps, because you need to consider how each feature will interact with other features you create.

Mage in the Barrel

Gimme a minute and I’ll link you to what I have so far

7:04 PM

@MikeQ And no matter what numbers you choose, that is the part that requires the most tinkering (once you've found that the feature works well in game through playtesting, you just adjust the numbers slightly until its perfect)

Mage in the Barrel

dndbeyond.com/races/172091-kitsune

There’s my homebrew race

Looks like you started with a base of the Changeling, no?

Mage in the Barrel

Yeah

Trying to get it to be as close to folklore as possible

I’ve gotten approval on everything except spiritualism

So the Spiritualism feature now that I see it in its entirely looks more like a racial feat than a core trait

Mage in the Barrel

My dm won’t be online until later so I can’t ask him

7:09 PM

Honestly, if you removed spiritualism entirely, it would be balanced with the changeling (although I'm a bit concerned that being able to turn into a fox might step on the toes of non-moon druids who occupy the "become a less combat-effective beast for the sake of non-combat challenges)

Adding spiritualism pushes it above the power level of official races.

Mage in the Barrel

There’s a difference between racial feats and traits?

The beads and orbs just seem to be flavor options for spell slots, but the infusion is just strictly better than changeling

Mage in the Barrel

What if I removed the shapeshifting abilities and just gave them spiritualism?

@MageintheBarrel Racial Feats are a variant option you can take as an alternative to Ability Score Increases. They show up in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, but you can get an idea of how they work with the Unearthed Arcana that introduced them as playtest

Mage in the Barrel

Cause I like spiritualism better

7:12 PM

@MageintheBarrel I'm worried about the beads and orbs as they fundamentally change how class features work (it goes against the design of 5e, as race and class rarely interact)

Mage in the Barrel

Beads are literally me replacing the words spell points with the word beads and removing the last line

That’s all I did

@MageintheBarrel At which point it isn't exactly a racial trait, and just a variant that the race employs

Mage in the Barrel

So what if it’s a feat?

You also can only pick 1

racial feats have a different measure of balance

Mage in the Barrel

How do?

So*

7:16 PM

@MageintheBarrel Since you are replacing an Ability Score Increase, you can pack a lot more usefulness in them

You can think of balance in terms of opportunity cost. 1 feat should be roughly as powerful as any 1 other feat, which should be roughly as powerful as getting +1 to two ability scores.

I think I would just put the beads or orbs as a way that the race does magic (in just a reflavor sort of way like you might see in a sidebar)

Similarly, 1 race should be roughly as powerful as any 1 other race, and a class should be roughly as powerful as another class of equal level. Generally speaking.

Then the spirit infusion could be part of a racial feat

Mage in the Barrel

I just liked my orb system

Still needs a lot of work with balancing the restore and how many orbs it costs

7:19 PM

I'm not sure how it would even work

The way it is written now, you could use the equivalent of 9th level spell slots at level 1.

Mage in the Barrel

What part don’t you understand?

Good point I could give them 1 orb per 2 levels

Would have to change the equation.

Hows that sounds?

And the "Orbs will reactivate once per three turns" means you cast a ridiculous number of spells compared to other spellacsters. First off, if it is turns, you basically never lose spell slots, but even as rounds (which I suspect you meant) it is 9 seconds to recover all of your spell slots (which is at least as many spell slots as warlocks get who have to take a short rest to get them back)

Mage in the Barrel

1 orb per minute?

Spell slots (or an equivalent resource) should not recover automatically

@MageintheBarrel I'm not sure balancing it in the way you want is possible

Mage in the Barrel

7:22 PM

Guess I could remove the restore

So if I remove the restore then would it be balanced.

It would be less unbalanced. But not necessarily balanced.

When it comes to homebrew, especially at these rough brainstorming stages, it's hard to gauge whether something is or isn't balanced in a vacuum.

Mage in the Barrel

Well I’ll remove the auto restore As a start

Stupid autocorrect

@MageintheBarrel Any reason you can't just flavor it differently? The beads are what most Kitsune spellcasters use as their spell slots, and the orbs are like Pact Magic spell slots for Kitsune warlocks?

Then the orbs recover on a short rest, and go out in proportion to how much energy they can store (based on their warlock level). half of them go out from level 1-10, a third of them from level 11-16, and a quarter of them from level 17-20.

(although they also become more potent as you level)

____

Mage in the Barrel

Are there any warlock pacts that don’t involve making a deal with an evil entity

The only other alternative I can see is to create a whole new class that utilizes these orvs, which is a much more challenging balancing effort

7:33 PM

celestial

@MageintheBarrel Certainly.

@MageintheBarrel Great Old One

@MageintheBarrel Any and all of them, depending on the description you choose.

and depends on how you define evil, the great old one

@MikeQ Except maybe the FIend

7:33 PM

Not evil... just from somewhere else and old. I think the only evil one is Pact of the DM.

I mean, the fiend is def evil

@DavidCoffron Does the Fiend pact say that the patron is strictly evil and pursues evil things?

Mage in the Barrel

That’s pretty good flavor I’ll use that if you don’t mind

And fey is implied evil.

Chaotic neutral at best.

@goodguy5 I keep hearing about things being fiendishly good... so not all evil.

7:34 PM

@MikeQ there are no official fiends that aren't evil from what I can tell

Mage in the Barrel

Devils are fiends are evil aren’t they

The Hexblade patron also isn't necessarily evil (more of an enigma though, so might be)

@DavidCoffron Fiends, being Demons and Devils, are all evil

^

Is there a RAW that says all fiends must be evil, without exception?

7:35 PM

@G.Moylan eh. Not all fiends are demons and devils, but the ones that aren't are still evil

If an imp were to stop being evil, it would stop being a devil.

Mage in the Barrel

What are celestial warlocks like?

@MageintheBarrel however you want them to be.

Mage in the Barrel

Are celestials gods?

they can heal. otherwise, they're warlocks.

and no

7:36 PM

> Fiends are creatures of wickedness that are native to the Lower Planes. A few are the servants of deities, but many more labor under the leadership of archdevils and demon princes. Evil priests and mages sometimes summon fiends to the material world to do their bidding. If an evil celestial is a rarity, a good fiend is almost inconceivable. Fiends include demons, devils, hell hounds, rakshasas, and yugoloths.

or at least.... not necessarily

Mage in the Barrel

What is the difference?

@MikeQ I think it's a common trope and appears in all the stat blocks. So it's assumed. Since good/evil isn't really an absolute thing anyway... probably not.

@MageintheBarrel for example, unicorns are celestial creatures.

> Celestials are creatures native to the Upper Planes. Many of them are the servants of deities, employed as messengers or agents in the mortal realm and throughout the planes. Celestials are good by nature, so the exceptional celestial who strays from a good alignment is a horrifying rarity. Celestials include angels, couatls, and pegasi.

7:37 PM

Kirin :D

Doesn't sounds like it can't happen.

The celestial patron is listed as:

> Your patron is a powerful being of the Upper Planes. You have bound yourself to an ancient empyrean, solar, ki-rin, unicorn, or other entity that resides in the planes of everlasting bliss. Your pact with that being allows you to experience the barest touch of the holy light that illuminates the multiverse.

[furiously scribbles house rules regarding alignment]

@DavidCoffron there are very few non-devil or non-demon fiends

A fiend that tries to be evil, but keeps making a hash out of it, and ends up benefiting everyone... and is terribly morose about it.

7:38 PM

@G.Moylan there's at least one construct

Mage in the Barrel

Are there any pacts with god like beings.

@MageintheBarrel Great Old One

@MageintheBarrel Sure? There's no single definition in 5E of "gods" or how they work, so any patron could potentially be godlike.

clerics

:P

Pact of the DM

Mage in the Barrel

7:39 PM

I hate religion tho.

but does your character?

@MageintheBarrel I'm not a fan of religion but I love incorporating it into my games. I think it's fascinating. I'm even playing a divine soul sorcerer at the moment

Mage in the Barrel

Making a deal with a god like being feels better than worshipping one to me.

I mean, to a village of peasants, a Rakshasa is godlike

@MageintheBarrel RP is a fun way to explore it in a light way. I dislike religion but I love mythology.

Mage in the Barrel

7:40 PM

Same

I think there's something in the PHB about not necessarily worshipping your cleric god

@DucksGoMooful or you could go Eberron

@G.Moylan 126 fiends in this list, and 97 in the demon and devils only list, so it isn't that few

@DavidCoffron 29 is less than a few dozen ?

@DavidCoffron Fine. But I can at least shift the goalposts a bit: A non-evil warlock can have a fiend patron.

7:41 PM

@DavidCoffron huh my search thing must have been messed up beucase it only gave me a handful.

@MikeQ A pact with a goal post shape shifter? Seems peculiar, but could be fun.

@GcL Madden Patron?

What insidious plots do they have you undertake? getting rid of field goals?

@MikeQ Good one.

Conjure scribbly lines all over the battlefield, commune with commentary...

@MikeQ Especially if you read the section of the gods of the Kuo-Toa:

> Kuo-toa worship gods of their own insane creation, but if enough kuo-toa believe that a god is real, the energy of their collective subconscious can cause that god to manifest as a physical entity. The form a kuo-toa god takes depends on the inspiration for its divine image, and is usually random or nonsensical.

7:43 PM

@MikeQ Madden-ing Shifter

@G.Moylan The Seeker pact basically has a "cut to commercial" feature, doesn't it

@DavidCoffron yeah and then there was that one time they willed Demogorgon into the prime paterial

@MikeQ "and now a message from ~~our sponsors~~ my patron"

Mage in the Barrel

I might go with celestial warlock and say I made a pact with inari

@MikeQ We overlay our table maps and use wet erase markers anyway..... I do have an old AD&D module that had a "football" match with neanderthals I should dig out and work in.

@MikeQ Pact of the 1st Down Chain.

Obvious quote invocation: +0 to perception checks. "The defense should be expecting a run or a pass here."

@G.Moylan I really want to do a campaign where a BBEG is manipulating the Kuo-toa to try to have them manifest a creature of deity-level-power under his control.

7:49 PM

Maybe +0 to insight as well

@DavidCoffron I could see Demogorgon doing that. "Create a literal god for me to control. kthanks"

Demo would be ALL over that

Belaphos would be super involved as well, probably

> By the time the mind flayers abandoned them, the prolonged psychic subjugation endured by the kuo-toa had driven them mad.

I really like Belaphoss as a villain, I'm disappointed they only fleshed him out in a magazine article and haven't really explored him in 5E

The illithid missed a trick

@G.Moylan Rule 401... now you're obligated to do it and write a blog post about it.

There were like 3 posts on meta about it. So it's highly official.

7:54 PM

@GcL I see the rules have been invoked

He DOES have 5E stats but they're pre-OotA and Mordenkainen's. I haven't really sat down to compare how he stacks up now against his demon daddy but I expect he's a bit under on the power side

I really like Matt Collville's default bbeg.
Kalarel the Vile, Psion of Orcus

The Invicible Overlord

@goodguy5 I love that he's adapted that villain into his default Tier 1 BBEG

Yea. it's really good

@G.Moylan Wait he does? Where?

sec

media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/…

it was a series of articles they ran a while back. I've ported him to DNDBeyond but I kept him private since he IS technically published material

8:03 PM

@DavidCoffron You absolutely can and should; I just don't feel like it's worth it when I'd rather be spending those slots on Bless or Cure Wounds or something.

I'd have to run the numbers, but I think Bless applied to three characters will result in a greater DPR improvement than most levels of Divine Smite over a relatively small quantity of rounds.

@G.Moylan @DavidCoffron here's the actual article: dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/article/106371/100847749?gwseo=true

`alright. have a good weekend all.

And Happy fathers day to all who apply

you too!

o/

@Xirema That's probably true, however note that during those rounds, the enemies can take actions and fight back. Not so much when the paladin deals nova damage.

@goodguy5 You have to apply to that? Sheesh... they're making more and more hoops to jump through these days.

8:08 PM

@Xirema true bless is REALLY good

@GcL aw man I never submitted mine. :( I'll have to go return my miter saw

@G.Moylan Just re-gift it on Miter's Day

@GcL I'm sure it's just around the... corner!

@G.Moylan I like the cut of your jib

@GcL Promote that man

8:12 PM

@G.Moylan Way better than the keel haul proposals I usually hear.

@G.Moylan at CR 20, he's same power level as any old Pit Fiend. The demon princes land between CR 23 and CR 26

@DavidCoffron I suppose he's not left too far behind.

@G.Moylan he does explode in fire a LOT

@G.Moylan nah. A pair of pit fiends pose a real challenge to a demon prince alone. And a group could take on a prince with his direct guards

(Which is why the biggest strength of the princes is their command over swaths of minions)

and the incessant squabbling of their would-be usurpers

@G.Moylan that too.

Like if the demons got their crap together they could demolish the devils but they are so bad at cooperating

I wouldn't be surprised if the devils have employed spies (possibly yugoloth) designed to cause strife in the ranks of the abyss to prevent any one demon from amassing too much control

8:19 PM

@DavidCoffron Doesn't mordenkainen's discuss that?

That sounds like a hilariously fun evil political intrigue plot. You are hired by devils to infiltrate the abyss and break up a faction that's forming under a new demon prince

@GcL maybe. Haven't read it all yet

But I know it talks a lot about the great war

So probably

sounds like the upcoming Descent into Avernus might get into some of that, too

oh dang I didn't realize they statted Klauth in STK

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8:50 PM

@G.Moylan It'll be interesting to see how it connects to Baldur's Gate 3 as well

@V2Blast Indeed. They made a big marketing push for Waterdeep stuff this past time, it'll be interesting to see the Baldur's Gate bits all come together

9:05 PM

Do we know what system mechanics BG3 will use? Is it gonna adapt 5E, or go back to AD&D2 rules?

@MikeQ it will likely use either 5E or some Larian DOS2 type thing

I can't seem them willingly pushing products that align with their current branding that DON'T push 5E

@MikeQ They've definitely said they plan to use 5e, but with some tweaks, mostly to the HP/AC system to make attacks hit more often.

9:29 PM

yep, 5e-based: pcgamer.com/…

Nothing beats discovering new shortcuts by the wholesale district around half past midnight

There's a surprising amount of partying going on, I thought it'd've been more like a sinister "place betweem places"

9:42 PM

@V2Blast Mind flayers so I wonder if the Adversary will ever play a part in the story.

@Yuuki What's the Adversary? This book?

@V2Blast oh hey she's in that Waterdeep phone app

@G.Moylan Farideh, that is. The Tiefling

It's why illithids kill other illithids that demonstrate traits of their former hosts (like nervous tics).

> Some adult Illithids have even been known to hum a tune that its host knew in life. Usually, when a mind flayer inherits a trait like this, it keeps it a closely guarded secret, because, were its peers to learn of it, the Illithid in question would most likely be killed.
> This is due to an Illithid legend of a being called the "Adversary". The legend holds that, eventually, an Illithid larva that undergoes ceremorphosis will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This Adversary would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an Illithid.

ah

that was a brutal transformation to watch. they did a good job in the trailer

9:49 PM

It'd be waaay too easy for the Baldur's Gate 3 protagonist to be the Adversary, I think. I definitely hope that if it (the Adversary) happens, they don't go that way.

10:00 PM

happy weekend, all. I'm going to teach my PCs a lesson about Grappling this weekend. Froghemoths and Otyughs, oh my!

oo maybe a roper

10:18 PM

Hey all

user15026

@G.Moylan I misinterpreted PCs as computers, not player characters, had a bit of a confusion.

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10:54 PM

@G.Moylan gives each and every of your PCs a baby roper to raise

Mage in the Barrel

i'm trying to make a racial that's a mix of wartorns ac bonus and monks unarmour defense. I'm making a reskin of warformged with slight changes. Heres what i've got
Borg
Your body has a film of spiritual energy called a Borg, which determines your armor class. The strength of your Borg is affect by your wisdom and is equal to 10 + your wisdom modifier * 2. Does not stack with other sources of AC.

balanced?

hey there btw @MageintheBarrel, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Mage in the Barrel

i've been pretty active the past two days

but thanks

11:12 PM

@MageintheBarrel Multiple AC calculations don't stack regardless. and Warforged don't have an AC bonus in the current version, but rather an AC calculation: media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/…

AC = 10 + (2 * Wisdom mod) means any cleric/druid picking the race likely has an AC of 20 very early on once they max their Wisdom mod - rangers too, if they max their Wis mod (since it's their secondary stat)

Mage in the Barrel

The idea would it woul be an ac calculation not bonus

@MageintheBarrel I know, just pointed the bonus part out since you said "i'm trying to make a racial that's a mix of wartorns ac bonus and monks unarmour defense." Unless "wartorn" meant something different from warforged.

Mage in the Barrel

lol i meant warfogred

i did say that my bad

Looking for a bit of inspiration. My players (bunch of gutter-punk blood-mages) have chased "Charlie" (Toreador stealth-master) into a Candy Factory! Charlie and 1 PC are sugar-addicts.

One of the PCs has found Charlie, up in the rafters and initiated combat ... what now?

Mage in the Barrel

how di you make a table in dnd beyond

what the difference between an ac bonus and an ac calculation

11:31 PM

@MageintheBarrel Last time I used DNDBeyond for editing homebrew, they didn't have a tool for creating tables. Had to manually write the HTML for the table layout.

Mage in the Barrel

hurray for online tools theres prob a builder laying around online

Oh, you meant a grid of cells? I was wondering how to get a flat surface with supports at each corner, probably wooden ... #ContextisEverything LOL

@BlackSpike Yes, you could also create a CR 0 construct called "Table"

Mage in the Barrel

so ac bonus is on top of your base ac and ac calculation is everything?

yes

@MageintheBarrel dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/…

Mage in the Barrel

11:34 PM

the idea behind the borg is have it be an ap calculation

ac*

so how would i make an ac calculation?

@MageintheBarrel do you mean how to do so mechanically within D&D Beyond? because you already stated what the calculation would be

I've never actually made homebrew in D&D Beyond, but I know there's a channel in their Discord where you can get help with that

Mage in the Barrel

I meant for balancing

what would a good equation look like

since mine is a bad equation

1 + 1 = 2

Mage in the Barrel

maybe 10 + wisdom modifer + intelegence modifier

would that still be op?

Do you still get Dex Bonus?

11:39 PM

It would be unusual. It means a Wisdom or Int based character can dump Dexterity and have high AC without armor or spells.

Mage in the Barrel

no

so 10 + wisdom modifier + dex modifier

That's what monks have.

Mage in the Barrel

I want it to scale of wisdom somewhat

narratively, why would they have such an AC calculation?

Mage in the Barrel

i needs to be magical

they use spiritual powers so their mainly magical by nature

11:41 PM

including a Con mod, as some AC calculations do, makes sense for being able to withstand getting hit without taking damage; including a Dex mod, as some AC calculations do, makes sense in terms of getting out of the way of attacks. How is their Wisdom affecting their AC, narratively?

Mage in the Barrel

i wouldn't make sense for a magical race to use a nonmagical stat

wisdom effects spiritual power according the the dtuid

"This race gets Monk AC features, no matter what Class they are". :( not sure how that will play out

WIS is a "magical" (Divine Catsting) stat?

Mage in the Barrel

well to be fair warforged has free heavy armour

OK, but you're trading in Heavy Armour for WIS(?) ...

Mage in the Barrel

well both the cleric and druid fall under the spiritual categories and they both scale of wisdom

11:44 PM

(I'm not a rules expert, by any means. Just rambling :) )

Mage in the Barrel

which is my logic

a warforged cleric would literally start with free heavy armour at level 1

or i guess whatever classes give heavy armour profiency

Narrative-wise, it seems fine. Balancing, rule-wise ... not my area :)

Mage in the Barrel

my dm is pretty cool with stuff as long as it fits narrative wise and isn't to op

slightly op is okay

Similar to WarForged, but swap Heavy Armour for Wis Bonus sounds fair on first look. (With or without Dex? Monk gets Dex. Heavy Armour doesn't).

Mage in the Barrel

without dex

11:47 PM

@MageintheBarrel Wisdom is only a "magical stat" for druids and clerics because there's a narrative explanation why they get their magic based on their natural/intuitive understanding of the world. It's not inherently a "magical ability score". You haven't really given a narrative explanation for Wis mod being included in AC other than that you think it has some inherent tie to "magic". But that's a separate thing from whether it's balanced mechanically.

dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#Wisdom

> Wisdom reflects how attuned you are to the world around you and represents perceptiveness and intuition.

Mage in the Barrel

my explaination is that wisdom is tied to nature

thus affects spiritual powers

@MageintheBarrel That doesn't explain what it has to do with AC...

@V2Blast One of the things I appreciated about 4e was how it completely exploded the tie between specific stats and specific narratives.

Mage in the Barrel

the ac is gained by applying a film of spiritual power to the skin

essentail like an aura defense like you see in the movies

So it's like a Wisdom-infused lotion?

11:50 PM

No Armour, No Dex, just Wis sounds weak. Wis+Dex (no armour) for non-Monks is niche-treading

could be 13+Wis mod. (Lizardfolk's natural armor and Mage Armor are both 13 + Dex mod)

Mage in the Barrel

i'm cool with that I mainly want something that scales off wisdom

it's sopposed to be like natural armour in the first place

@V2Blast as Monks already get Wis AC bonus, there is precedent. "it's a bit like monks, but the whole race (culture) get it" is narrative explanation enough (for me :) )

Maybe they grow a beard that correlates with their wisdom, and the beard provides a layer of protection. Magically.

:)

Sufficiently advanced Beards are indistinguishable from armour

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