TRPG General Chat

It's pretty straightforward if you know the notation and the context. "arms site:dndbeyond.com" got me a lot of homebrew, so I added "-homebrew" and got nothing. Just add inference.

MikeQ

1:15 AM

@Carcer It depends. PF's attacks use different rules depending on whether it's a manufactured or natural weapon. And it gets even more confusing if you combine them.

BESW

Heh. They fixed that in 4e, and then brought it back for 5e?

Ben

I had a PC in DH [cough @MikeQ cough] That had 3 arms. He was able to use his Omnissiah Axe (massive 2-hand axe) His integrated laser rifle and his mechadendrite in one turn

@MikeQ Oh? How is that? I have a Skinwalker Druid so the choice between Natural and Manufactured is something that I would deal with regularly

MikeQ

Ok, when you use manufactured weapons, touch attacks, or improved unarmed strike, you use your iterative BAB. This limits the maximum number of attacks with such weapons.

When you use natural weapons, you have primary and secondary.
- Primary are made at full BAB, and damage uses your STR modifier
- Secondary are made at BAB - 5, and damage uses half STR modifier
- If you only have 1 primary attack, then the damage uses 1.5xSTR instead

You get (up to) one attack per natural weapon

And if you make a full attack with both natural weapons and non-natural-weapons, then your natural weapons all count as secondary

Oh and also there's like 100 different exceptions

BESW

@Piomicron A quick glance at the book suggests an Ars Magica spell with the effect of a casting of diffindo would use a Perdo Technique in a Form appropriate to the target, and usually at least 15, often level 25. See Perdo Terram spells.

For a one-spell-severs-all effect, I think it could be argued that a level 30 Perdo Terram spell could target just about any ordinary inanimate object.

Ben

1:30 AM

@MikeQ ok... So mechanically, if I deal d4+2 damage per attack with my natural weapons, (that's full strength) and I deal d6+1 or 2 damage with my Quarterstaff, if I make a full attack, I am better off with.... the claws?

MikeQ

So your full attack is either:
A) quarterstaff, one attack, average 4.5 damage
B) claws, two attacks, average 4.5 damage each

Ben

Ok. So even if I miss with one of the attacks, I still do ~ as much damage

BESW

@MikeQ How did 5e make it MORE complicated to mechanical/natural attacks than it was in 3.5?

That takes active effort.

MikeQ

@BESW I was referring to Pathfinder above

Compared to 3.x/PF, the 5e implementation is simpler

BESW

Okay, so I feel like that's even worse?

MikeQ

1:37 AM

Why?

BESW

Because with the advent of 4e, Pathfinder was pitched as "improved 3.5."

And I keep running across ways that it's... different? But only in superficial ways that often just increase the complexity of interactions to make feature balance less predictable.

MikeQ

Right, PF was originally meant to be a streamlined, more balanced version of 3.5. And ten years and several hundred splat books later, PF has the same pitfalls and complexity and imbalances as the system it was meant to improve upon.

BESW

From what I've seen, it never removed them in the first place.

Its only claim to greater streamlining was a reduced number of levers to pull, but all the levers still connect to the original unwieldy 3.5 machine. They just swapped out a few gears and slapped a new decal on it.

MikeQ

Agreed. It's a very bloated and cumbersome system. In contrast, I can tolerate 5e.

Ben

I have one friend say the 3.5 is the best, and another that says PF is the best.

But both say their respective favourite is better than 5e.

BESW

1:49 AM

PF has the advantage of being a living system, which is a huge draw for many over 3.5. It's also completely open, which is also a big attraction compared to both 3.5 and 5e.

MikeQ

Living systems are nice in theory

Ben

Bring back Dark Heresy. Lol

MikeQ

But as the system gets bigger, it becomes harder to create new content that is balanced and consistent (relative to what's already there) . New additions to the system tend to break previously established concepts, or at least make them more confusing

V2Blast

Simic Hybrid race has this option at 5th level:
"Grappling Appendages - You have two special appendages growing alongside your arms. Choose whether they’re both claws or tentacles. As an action, you can use one of them to try to grapple a creature. Each one is also a natural weapon, which you can use to make an unarmed strike. If you hit with it, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike. Immediately after hitting, you can try to grapple the target as a bonus action. These appendages can’t precis…

MikeQ

@Ben Agreed!

V2Blast

1:53 AM

and Loxodon has trunk

BESW

@MikeQ Indeed.

That's one reason I like how Evil Hat is handling Fate, as a set of unconnected minisystems that you can mash together at your own peril if you want (but they provide detailed guides for doing it!).

Ben

@MikeQ Finally accepted your discord request haha. Been kinda slack on that front lol

@BESW did you say you had a PDF of all the cards for LLKoM?

Miniman

2:09 AM

@Ben You know a new version of the WH40KRPG came out last year, right?

BESW

Not yet.

Ben

@Miniman DH 2e?

@BESW Ah ok cool. Just vaguely remember a mention of something along those lines so just wanted to confirm :)

Miniman

@Ben No, that came out 5 years ago. Wrath and Glory, a generic WH40KRPG system, came out last year.

Ben

@Miniman Ohhh...

Miniman

@Ben That said, it's a pretty tremendous departure from the FFG games.

Ben

2:19 AM

@Miniman Does it have the Adeptus Mechanicus as PCs?

Miniman

@Ben Yep - gameplay is divided into tiers. So typical Inquisition Acolytes are Tier 1, along with hive gangers, ork boyz, and so on. Inquisitors are the top (tier 4). Tech-Priests are Tier 3, along with Space Marines, Eldar Warlocks, etc.

Ben

@Miniman Ohh interesting

Shall have to do some investigation

Miniman

I haven't looked into it too deeply - I'd be interested to hear anything interesting you find.

Dice pool with one special die in it is a bit offputting, but I mostly play on roll20 these days, and there it's simple to say the first/last die is the important one.

Ben

Here is a bit of a demonstrative comic on how the system works

cc @MikeQ

The d6 system looks comparable to Fate I think?

MikeQ

Seems more comparable to WoD or Shadowrun - you add up your relevant abilities to determine the dice pool size, then roll and count the number of successes

Miniman

2:32 AM

Was just typing that ^^

Ben

Haha tbf I haven't actually played any of them, I've only seen the fate system in a similar comic haha.

MikeQ

Fate uses 4dF, fudge dice, which have a normal-ish distribution between -4 and +4, and then you add that to one modifier value

Ben

It uses cards..?

ulisses-us.com/wrath-glory-card-previews

BESW

Miniman

@Ben To replace all the "roll on this table" that Warhammer has traditionally used.

Ben

2:41 AM

@Miniman In place of, or as an alternative to?

Miniman

@Ben In place of, I believe.

Ben

Hmm...

MikeQ

@BESW Like I said, normal-ish

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

BESW

Next time I run Fate, I think that for failed actions by PCs I'll ask "What thing outside your character's control led to this not happening the way they wanted?"

Miniman

2:51 AM

@BESW For some reason, this reminded me of Dark Side of the Sun - there are 2 characters with luck as a superpower, so every time someone tries to kill one of them, it fails in some completely ridiculous way.

BESW

@Miniman My brain came up with the tortured simile that they're the Charlie on the MTA of Final Destination.

Miniman

If you've seen Deadpool 2, Domino was pretty close.

Shalvenay

D&D 3.x question: is there a Cleric equivalent to mnemonic enhancer?

Miniman

3:13 AM

The prepare function, the retain function, or both?

Shalvenay

@Miniman the prepare function (basically, the additional temporary spell slots it grants you, if you will)

Miniman

Anyspell is sort of similar.

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah -- it's close, but not quite there....

Miniman

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?577910-List-of-meta-spells

Try looking through there?

Hmmm. Triadspell is a similar concept.

Shalvenay

@Miniman will do, thx

@Miniman what in the heck would happen if you used greater anyspell to cast the prepare function of mnemonic enhancer, anyway?

Miniman

3:26 AM

I mean, as long as you're a prepared caster, it seems pretty straightforward.

Shalvenay

@Miniman I suppose it'd give you Cleric slots?

Ben

@Miniman has there been any rp questions about it?

Shalvenay

@Miniman tyvm!

Ben

"it" being wrath and Glory that is haha

Miniman

@Ben Not that I'm aware of.

@Shalvenay Well, Cleric prepared spells.

Shalvenay

3:42 AM

@Miniman yeah, about equivalent for the purposes of what I'm dealing with here

Miniman

@Shalvenay If you mean for Triadspell, a 5th level spell for 2 extra uses of one of your 3rd level spells is a pretty questionable trade.

@Shalvenay What's the goal?

Shalvenay

@Miniman it's a RP thingamabob, not anything tactical :) (has to do with magic-item-making)

Miniman

Ah, right.

Ben

3:58 AM

@Miniman @MikeQ drivethrurpg.com/…

It seems the "more accurate" reviews are saying the system is good, with a few issues.

Ben

4:26 AM

@Miniman There is a table available at least, so you don't need the deck to play

I splurged and bought the core rulebook PDF

Miniman

5:00 AM

@Ben Haha

Ben

I'm a little unsure of how damage works... like, there's the deck/table, but that seems to only relate to damage dealt by the PCs, but not to them.

Ben

6:50 AM

They don't have servo skulls in W&G T-T

kviiri

7:01 AM

@BESW I got back to John the Balladeer. Vandy, Vandy is my favorite so far

Miniman

7:49 AM

@Ben Well, it's trying to cover the entirety of WH40K roleplaying. Detail is a luxury it just can't have.

kviiri

10:55 AM

G'day

Enjoying a bit of sunshine near the airport. The planes cast cool shadows on the surrounding woodlands

Ben

12:02 PM

@Miniman haha yeah. In all honesty it wouldn't be too difficult to rig up

BESW

The Shee - Vandy Vandy

►

vicky_molokh

What an odd spelling.

kviiri

12:31 PM

@vicky_molokh The unusualness of the name is a minor point in the plot

Rubiksmoose

2:01 PM

3

Q: Rolling for Movement in Theatre of the Mind

From this question mxyzplk had the second highest answer about running combat in theatre of the mind. He mentioned Same thing with movement. I have all my players convert their movement into an actual "Move bonus", +2 per 5' of movement, so a 30' move is a +12, for example. (Side rant, th...

So, what do people think of the way this is currently phrased? I think there is a stackable question here, but I'm not sure if the phrasing is optimal to me right now.

goodguy5

I scrolled past it, because the premise annoyed me

too fiddly

theater of the mind:
You can't get to them, or you can. whatever.

Rubiksmoose

Yeah I think it is an interesting idea that does really fit with how I use TotM

The one area I think it could potentially have impact is if you have a character who has a really distinct and good movement and this mechanic could be used to make that explicitly more rewarding

Like having a high level monk in the party for example.

goodguy5

Sure, I guess

Rubiksmoose

Is it worth the extra mechanical hurdle? Probably not, but it would depend on its implementation.

If everyone has a 30 ft move speed I really don't see a point though

goodguy5

a dwarf, a human, and a wood elf

Rubiksmoose

2:15 PM

I do think I disagree with the idea that static movement is a missed opportunity. Never do I look at 5e and say "Man, this game would be way better with even more fiddly mechanics to keep track of every round."

4

goodguy5

^

Rubiksmoose

Could you do fun things in the space? Probably. But I don't think 5e needs it. Solution asking for a problem. With the slight exception being Theater of the Mind situation I mentioned above of course.

That being said, I do think the math needs work on that implementation.

@KorvinStarmast that seems overpowered to me, essentially a base 30' move is +12 as he mentioned, however dash would give you an additional +12 for a total of +24. That essentially means you are a movement god. — gilliduck 10 mins ago

+12 to any roll is really good but that is what the standard move speed gets.

goodguy5

I'm pretty jazzed for my party to find the interplanar city on the southern continent of the world I made

still deciding on a name.

and there's also a mage vegas

Magas?

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 no. bad!

lol

goodguy5

oh no

Rubiksmoose

2:21 PM

Megas?

Colin Gross

What's wrong with Magus Vegas?

goodguy5

XLR?

kviiri

I think 5e does have missed opportunities regarding positioning and movement, but I agree that more mechanics is worse than better mechanics

V2Blast

Megas XLR?

damn it

lol

Colin Gross

@kviiri I concur

goodguy5

2:22 PM

Rubiksmoose

What happens in Megas, stays in Megas (because of a compulsory geass).

goodguy5

ha

Megas, the City of Splendor

The hub city..... actually, "Hub City" doesn't sound terrible.

kviiri

Simplicity is the king

goodguy5

Brass District.
The Skyways.
Undercity (plane of stone)
Portside.
Little Elysium
Abyss Inc.

ugh, meeting

Rubiksmoose

nice names!

@kviiri you think so? I've never really thought about it, but I can't think of anything offhand I would want improved

kviiri

2:32 PM

@Rubiksmoose I'd like for position-based powers from 4e to be back, mainly

And marking (it made playing defenders quite a lot more interesting!)

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri can you give an example? It sounds interesting

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Just a moment :) some work biz but after that

@Rubiksmoose Ok so, there's some classes that have rather simple buffs for being close to enemies. Eg. the ranger deals additional damage against targets that are closer to them than any of their allies --- fitting well the idea of a two-bladed murder machine but also working reasonably well for archers.

Marking is what defenders, mostly, can do to "tie down" enemies. Marked enemies take varying penalties from making attacks that don't target the character who marked them

I think the usual one is -2 to-hit, and each defender class has some extra effect on top of that, like extra opportunity attacks when the enemy tries to attack another target any or somesuch

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri that is a neat idea. I feel like they actually kind of tried to implement some of that in rough form with the cavelier of all things.

kviiri

Then there's classes like warlord, that can attack "through" their allies, so they benefit from the position of their allies

Rubiksmoose

Were these passive abilities?

kviiri

2:44 PM

@Rubiksmoose The ranger's one is, but a lot of these are active powers (eg. Marking is usually a side-effect of other powers)

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Very interesting. That does sound rather fun.

I wonder how they would work in TotM

G. Moylan

2:56 PM

Battle Master Fighter is also an implementation of that, in a way. Your positioning becomes very important based on what youre trying to do

kviiri

3:20 PM

@Rubiksmoose I like it :)

Colin Gross

I ordered the Ars-Magica-5 core book. I hope this system is good.

G. Moylan

4:09 PM

it sounds cool, reading about it

the magic system is neat

Colin Gross

4:24 PM

Yeah. From what I've been reading, it's mostly about speaking in Latin, but not goofy Harry Potter Latin, and offending denizens of middle ages europe

Also, looks like it's entirely d10 based, but I don't know if the 0's are zero or ten.

The 4th edition books are available for free, but the kerning on the pdfs is awful.

G. Moylan

apparently the 5th edition combat is hugely overhauled for the better, from what I'm seeing

whereas the system in 4th edition and older is considered a bit fiddly

Colin Gross

@G.Moylan Yeah. I don't know. I was just reading through some reviews and the 4th edition books. I have catholic players, so this might not be the game for them, but we'll see.

G. Moylan

do they play D&D? If they're willing to fight demons and fiends and necromancers and whatnot then I'm not sure there's much different here that might offend

0s count for 0 or 10, depending on the kind of roll you're making

Colin Gross

@G.Moylan Listen... that's all fantasy and stuff, but when actually say Jesus to some people it becomes very real. Which is going to be a problem for 1200's Europe.

@G.Moylan Well, that's going to be difficult to keep straight.

G. Moylan

I suppose it's about the pitch. Christians vs pagans is a pretty common trope that is explored a lot in TV. The Last Kingdom does this heavily, for example. Neither side is blatantly good or evil, they just exist. My wife is Catholic and she loved that show

Like you said it'll come down to the individual players

Colin Gross

4:38 PM

@G.Moylan That's way earlier. In high middle ages Europe there aren't really any pagans.

I think I might start using this for NPCs on the fly: whothefuckismydndcharacter.com

G. Moylan

I love that website

there's a series of them for magic items and I think names as well

maybe monsters

Colin Gross

I think I have a link to the parent project for all of them. It's a pretty simple JS single page site that they're all built from.

G. Moylan

there's a github link in the lower corner too

Colin Gross

I'm interested in the narrative challenge of working in or alluding to the background in normal converstation

G. Moylan

I got "who always give the bad news first." That could get pretty fun

melodramatic Half-orc Ranger from a desert town hidden inside a sandstorm who has no concept of personal space

that's a lotta character right there

@ColinGross How integral is the Church to the game?

kviiri

5:33 PM

@ColinGross Obligatory reminder that Sandy Petersen, one of the prominent map designers for Doom, was a Mormon

;)

GreySage

@kviiri I don't see the relevance.

G. Moylan

he's also THE Lovecraft Guy

Sandy Petersen

Carl Sanford Joslyn "Sandy" Petersen (born September 16, 1955) is an American game designer. == Biography == Petersen was born in St. Louis, Missouri and attended University of California, Berkeley, majoring in zoology. He is a well-known fan of H. P. Lovecraft, whose work he first encountered in a World War II Armed Services Edition of The Dunwich Horror and other Weird Tales found in his father's library. In 1974, Dungeons & Dragons brought his interest to role-playing games. He became a full-time staff member at Chaosium. His interest for role-playing games and H. P. Lovecraft were fused when...

he wrote the Pathfinder Cthulhu mythos book and just finished one for 5E as well. Should hit shelves this year

GreySage

Don't you love when a guy who majors in zoology goes on to develop TTRPGs and Video Games?

G. Moylan

we writes some killer bestiaries, so I guess it helped him after all

kviiri

6:06 PM

@GreySage The point being, people can be actively Catholic, Mormon or otherwise religious and still enjoy games about demons, fiends, angels and whatnot

goodguy5

alternatively, people can be none of the above and dislike those things

G. Moylan

or any combination therein

goodguy5

is there a succinct word like "neither", but for more than two things?

nevermind: english.stackexchange.com/questions/129288/…

G. Moylan

neither can rarely be used for 3 but it's a bit of an archaic use. I think someone points it out in that question

GreySage

6:28 PM

@kviiri Indeed, although the preferred term is member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. LDS can be used in a pinch.

kviiri

Sorry, I wasn't aware of that.

goodguy5

wait, is that mormons?

because I've never heard any of the members of my hometown branches call it that.

Then again, my home county has a population density of 70/sq mi, so....

Sir Cinnamon

@goodguy5 I didn't know there was a preference as such but yeah it appears to be the more... diplomatic way to refer to the religious group: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormons#Terminology

goodguy5

how peculiar

Sir Cinnamon

Although evidently even LDS isn't their favourite term (They like Jesus being in there i suppose)

goodguy5

6:40 PM

I'm pretty sure that part of the point is that Jesus is always in there.

I fell into a wiki hole and wound up reading about the duggars

what a bizarre situation.

kviiri

6:56 PM

The LDS is rather fringe here, I know only one member and never really felt the urge to connect with him (he is not exactly an easily likeable person, because of some traits that I don't really associate with the general membership of his religion)

So no wonder I'm a bit in the dark regarding preferred terminology

Now to work on my papers ->

GreySage

@goodguy5 I think that is most of reason for the preferred term. It is unwieldy long though.

goodguy5

I just mean like... he's in your heart, or something, right?

GreySage

@goodguy5 Maybe I misunderstood you. I think the emphasis on the correct name of the church is mostly to remind people that it is about Jesus. Abbreviations and other nicknames tend to drop the word, which sometimes leads to confusion.

Zachiel

7:35 PM

@BESW One of the players was asked if they wanted to do this, all other players joined mid-campaign and knew that the idea was to keep playing that one.

Zachiel

8:02 PM

@kviiri MFW I kept reading LSD and not understanding what that had to do with Christianity...

BESW

goodguy5

ha

Xirema

@Rubiksmoose TBH, I like the flavor of the Somatic components of a Bard spell being the character playing the instrument; but if there were mechanical implications beyond that flavor, having an instrument be actively played when used as a focus would be a hard NOPE from me.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema oh me too. Same all the way.

Though it would be really crappy for spells with material but no verbal component if you were trying to stealth cast.

That is a very specific downside though.

Great answer by the way. Much clearer than mine about certain aspects. +1 for sure

Xirema

Dice Funk did it correctly, IMO: when Reese (a 5e Bard that used a Painting Canvas as her focus instead of a musical instrument) needed to cast a Bard spell, it was narrated as her "Jojo-ing" a drawn picture nearly instantaneously, which then conveyed the spell effect; but in terms of the action Economy, there was no change.

It was a fun way to add flavor to the character without interrupting the mechanics of the game.

Rubiksmoose

8:15 PM

@Xirema that's the way to do it.

BESW

I like declamatory bards, myself.

doppelgreener

Pathfinder: Maybe things are a bit complicated. / Pathfinder to Pathfinder: Hold my beer.

BESW

Xirema

9:02 PM

If I had a nickel for every time I encountered a Software Engineering Cult, I'd have 2 nickels.

Which isn't that many, but it's weird that it happened more than once.

Colin Gross

@Xirema In person? I might get a dollar

@G.Moylan the church is integral to the setting. It's one of the pillars of society. It's a major power broker, financial backer, repository of knowledge, educational institution, and part of everyday culture.

You'd have a very difficult time separating 1200's Europe from the catholic church.

G. Moylan

Then the church is just a political entity at that point. It doesn't have to be all about Jesus. The Catholic church was all up in everyone's business. Most modern Catholics I've encountered understand that the church of that time wasn't exactly its best version, what with rampant corruption, Crusades, indulgences, politics, and squashing scientific advances

sure it paints the church in a bad light, but it's historically relevant and it's the way it was at the time

CTWind

9:19 PM

@doppelgreener I'm not a PF player, so this is just outside nitpicking, but oof, that seems rough to remember. Also confusing. Sonic damage is unaffected, unless the DM wants it to be affected? And doing damage via sound is harder underwater if so? Not that I should be bringing reality in, but I thought the force of sound transmits easier and further underwater. And steam doesn't extend out of the water body? Isn't that what steam would do, rise up and out?

GreySage

@CTWind Sonic damage has a bigger area, but less damage, which I think is actually the opposite from how sound really works in water (I am not a physicist).

Zachiel

@CTWind Remeber? People remeber things when playing D&D? Oh, no, you crack the manuals open every time you know that the players will end in water.

CTWind

@Zachiel I meeean 5e doesn't even have many underwater rules but I still can't say you're wrong, lol

G. Moylan

"Oh you're underwater? You start taking X damage per round. Better come up with a solution quick. Oh noooooo"

Colin Gross

@G.Moylan I think you and I might have very different experiences with modern catholics.

G. Moylan

9:31 PM

lol I suppose so. Most religions seem to have subscribers of all types

Colin Gross